I need your help re:the death(s) @ Tillamook

[corrirod]

The accident at the south Jetty was a tragic event. For those of you that haven't heard, please read Pilar's post(Coast Guard). I would like to ask your help to boycott the Garibaldi Marina Store. Here is why: My friend was the one that helped the man on the rocks. I ran my boat up to the jetty and by the grace of god, was able to find a good rock to let him off at. He spoke to the victim and tried to calm him. My friend thought the man to be about 50 yrs. old and he was fishing with his parents. They had just caught a coho at the end of the jetty and were in the process of releasing it. The man didn't realize where he was and the next thing he saw was the boat capsize and his mother smashing into the rocks. He kept asking my buddy if his parents were alright and my buddy just told him that the Coast Guard picked them up and already left. The man said he was trapped under the overturned boat and was choking on saltwater and gasoline everytime the waves would pound against the jetty. He managed to pull his trapped foot out of his shoe and climbed up the jetty where my buddy met him. Here's where I must ask for your help. The coast guard asked me, via radio, if I was comfortable getting my buddy back off the jetty to which I responded that I was not. The fact that we had safely got him on the jetty was shear luck, or divine intervention. So the coast guard picked up my buddy as well and transported him with the victim to Tillamook hospital, leaving me to drive back into port, check in our halibut, and go pick him up. Well when I arrived at the marina I parked in one of several open slip spaces. I explained my situation to the ODFW gal and she was very understanding. I decided to go ask the Marina Store owner if it would be O.K. if I left my boat in the slip long enough to go to Tillamook and pick up my friend to which he responded,"No!". I then politely tried to explain the situation, of which he was already informed by all the other boaters around, and he responded,"NO, I'm not trying to be mean or anything, but someone else purchased that slip for tonight and their out fishing right now and they'll want it when they get back, so No." I said, "You've got to be kidding?" Another gentlemen who was standing in line to pay for some items recommended that I could park in the transient dock, however then I would have to drive the boat to the dock, walk all the way back, and then do it all over again in reverse once I got back. I was completely disgusted and said a few profain words and left, knowing that it would be faster just to load the boat myself and go pick up my friend. This isn't the first, second, or even third time this SOB has ticked me off. Both him and his wife are the biggest ****** I've ever seen. He didn't offer to let me park the boat in another spot or anything! Anyway, this was my last straw, I want take it anymore. I am boycotting the Garibaldi marina store. I won't use their slip, I won't buy my bait from them or any tackle, NOTHING! Several people I've spoke with are doing the same because they've been treated badly by this couple also. I didn't think I was asking too much under the circumstances, what do you think?

[Pete]

First, good on you and your buddy for doing what you could to assist the unfortunate boaters. As for the Garibaldi Marina, it sure seems like they could have been more accomodating. I don't know their situation, but I suspect they are struggling financially. This season they started getting really tough on tie-ups and started charging to use their cleaning station. There just isn't enough dock space for all the ramp users. It seems to me that the City of Garibaldi should provide more dock space given the number of boaters who use the ramp.

[Okiedrifter]

u r right, considering what happened, they could of helped out.. the sea is dangerous, and when someone needs help, they need help. u and ur friend should be comended and not abused by some store owner ., who probally made money off the departed to start with.

------------------
okiedrifter

[KrystalFlash]

Wow!
Stories like this really make me realize just how thoughtless some people are. I can't believe that someone could be so hung-up on making a buck.
I have to say, I'd like to shake your hand and the hand of your buddy though. You have exceeded the normal limits of bravery with little or no concern for yourself, to help out your fellow man. That is HONORABLE. Not many people would have done what you did. BZ!
I don't mean to sound insensitive, but I hope that a lesson was learned here. You see people being careless like this every day, maybe this will, give some of them a little reality check. I hope so anyway. I wish there was something that we could do to prevent this kind of incident.
OUT!
KrystalFlash
It is Good to be LUCKY!

[Pilar]

Corrirod, are you sure those guys understood your emergency? I can't believe they wouldn't drop whatever and concentrate on your situation. Maybe I've just never seen the attitude since they have always been helpful to me. I'm calling Billie, Monday to ask her about it.

Hey bud, you guys are who I want around when I'm fishing the jaws. That was a true selfless act on you the driver and the jumpers part. We all have to stick together on the Ocean, we are much stronger and safer that way. It is obvious that you and your buddy understand and practice this.

If you say the Marina store is no good, I'm with you.

I'm going to ask them about the mercenary behavior and maybe get thier side of the story. It seems to me that they have a duty to assist all people in distress. After all they send people out in thier rental fleet all the time. They probably sold bait and fuel to the 3 people that got in trouble. I'm sure they expect the rest of us to look after thier boaters.

Don't know what else to say. I don't know you friend but I'd like to shake your hand and thank your buddy too.

[corrirod]

Thanks for the compliments from everyone but there were no Heroics involved, just dumb luck. I saw in the Oregonian they stated that the "unidentified" man jumped in the water to save the last victim, they can't get anything right. There was no swimming involved! hahaha

As for the marina store, I've always been treated 2nd rate from them and I've seen them mistreat a lot of others so I'm done with them. I can stay at the Transient Dock from now on and I'll make sure I buy all my gear and bait before I get there. I've always felt an attitude from the owners like they don't really care how you feel because they're the only show in town. I've seen them treat the guides really well but I think it's just because they see them every day, and I only go down there maybe 10 times during the whole summer. Anyway, that's my last word on them and again I thank everyone for their gratitude and let's all be safe out there and get some fish!

[sgs]

I was treated very poorly on different occasions by Jeff, I believe the owners name, and I started boycotting them last year. It was frustrating for me to be treated so poorly. I have been buying stuff from that store since before they owned the place. They have this whole "damn flat landers" attitude. Like "you ain't from around here are ya?" screw em'!

[Steve]

Hey Guys! There is an excellent Bait and Tackle shop just up the road before you get to Bar View jetty....Lysters...they used to be at Jetty Fishery and the mouth of the Nehalem Bay....but moved down to Garibaldi..as for the other place...had my turn in the barrel...bad move for them...the only thing is that there should be more launch sites...

My sympathy and prayers to the unfortunate boaters and their family. .................. Please people, common sense and awareness are absolutes to out there! Stay away from the jettys, epecially near the end of the south side where this took place (I've seen a lot of mini-sneakers nearly take boats out in that area). Unless you have a very large boat and the proper skills, only fish relatively calm weather days in the ocean from low to high slack and get back inside before the tide starts to run back out. - And we are all grateful to people like the two who so bravely helped out (Corrirod and partner)! We'll be there if you need help someday. - As for the marina, overhyped incorrect fishing reports to get you to come and spend your money there to get skunked is bad enough (which has always been somewhat the case, starting with the previous owners), but what I'm hearing now is inexcusable. Let us know their thoughts after you talk to them Pilar, thanks. They aren't the only show in town, there is the nearby Old Mill Marina at (503)322-3243. They have always had the more accurate fishing reports from their tackle dept. and I haven't heard anything negative about their service. - Ifish and the overall power of the internet is growing fast. Fishing industry businesses beware. - RT

[MoJet Driver]

RT,

Isn't that Old Mill Marina a club members only type of place? The last time I tried to launch and it may have been a while ago, I thought there was a sign indicating as such.

At the time, I too was looking for an alternate boat landing due to the (un)friendliness that Corrirod experienced. Even 7 Eleven and Circle K will let you park in front of their store.

[Gone Fishin]

Hey Mojet,
Old Mill does have a public launch however, they try to keep it private. They charge $10 to use it and it's a lousy launch, and hard to get out at low tide.

[Jennie@ifish]

We drove in there and asked how much Old Mill charges a couple days ago. Down to 5 dollars now.
Still the above applies though, about conditions.

[MoJet Driver]

Gone Fishin & Jen,

Thanks for the update. It will be my first choice. If there's enough water to float my boat, I'm fishin'.

[MoJet Driver]

Almost forgot, I would pay the $10.00 just for a more pleasurable launching experience than that cluster gaggle over at the public boat basin.

This thing has me so spooled up I almost forgot to commend Corrirod and his buddy on their efforts. Good job guys!

Da' Mojet Dude

[Bait O' Eggs]

Corrirod
I have known Jeff and Val at the marina for several years. It sounds like they made a bad choice with your situation. I have pulled their boats (and customers) into the marina in the past, when their motors wont start in the bay. They are really nice to you when you do something for them. I would have to say I have had better service in the past than this year. I pulled into the marina on Friday a couple hours before your adventure and came in on the East side of the dock to get some supplies from them. The dock was full so I motored around to the other side of the dock and tied up. Val was standing their BARKING to move I was in a paid for slot. I explained I was their to spend money in their store and it would take 5 minutes. She escorted me to the store and I made my my purchase. I was a little put out by the attitude I got when I tied up, but passed it off to the mad rush of people coming and going. I guess your couple hours of needed moorage was not going to profit her so she denied it.

I would love to talk to Jeff and Val before before I join your boycott. If I do not get the answer I want to hear I will join you in the boycott. They are a stuggling store that needs to see the value of customer service.

You and the jumper are heros in my book.

[Johnny Bowles]

hey (EXPLETIVE NOT ALLOWED ON BOARD DELETED)
you sound like the marina had something to do with this tragedy or could have made a difference by letting you park in someone elses spot ! why were you in so much of a hurry to get your friend it sounds like you were feeling like a hero for not. i was out there that day and by the grace of god or intervention you got your buddy on those rocks it was as calm as the ocean gets except on the tip of the jetty where this happened.
so i'm not sure why your awsome boat driving skills didnt get your buddy back on your boat.in regards to the marina owner, anyone who works with the public gets a little tiered of putting up with bs from the expecting public day after day. by the way you could show a little more respect for our friends lost at sea ( the title of your mes)


[This message has been edited by Jennie@ifish (edited 09-26-2000).]

[RKB]

BJ
I think that are friend was thinking about the people lost at sea or he would not have put him self in harms way.As for the people at the store what happened to helping a fellow person in need as he did.I feel that if the story is true then they should look for a new line of work because I won't buy any thing there because as you know the custmer is always right and if a busness can't treat the people that feed them like they like to be treated.then they don't deserve to be in busness.
RKB

[This message has been edited by RKB (edited 09-26-2000).]

[SLEDDER]

BJ
Why are we calling people names, somebody p!@@ in your wheaties? Jeff and Val should have been a little more helpful, given the situation!!

[Richter]

big juan,

I can see this is your first post. Just a little advice. Don't start your message like you did. Read your first sentence! That type of stuff is not allowed on this board.
If you have something to say, feel to write, just don't put it in a offensive manner.

Rich

[Ramstrong]

Hey, it looks like BJ just registered today to make this one post. Hmmm, no email address listed, no location listed. But guess what buddy, you left your IP with the post. Don't worry the board ****'s have been notified. What interest do you have with this? How are you affiliated with the Garibaldi Marina? No matter, it's been nice knowing you, sucker!

BJ, the "DH" family is a VERY LARGE family,
which you MUST be part of. No one here on
this board belongs to that family. Take
a long hike outta here will you.

[Bait O' Eggs]

corrirod
I called and talked to Jeff at Garibaldi Marina today concerned about the way you were treated. I know all disputes have 2 sides to each story. Jeff told me had never heard of Ifish and has no computer access to respond to the situation. He did say if you (or anyone else) has a beef with him he would like to talk it out with that person direct. He explained his side of the story as kind of the following. (I dont want to try to quote due to possible inaccuarcies)

1. This is the busiest month of the year for them
2. It was a halibut day (compounding the busy day)
3. He just spend an hour trying to find the people who were tied up in a slot to have coffee they had not paid for, while the paying customer waited impaitiently.
4. The situation was not critical, your buddy was in the best medical care available.
5. He did not see where it made any difference if it took you a few minutes longer to load your boat now verses later.
6. You could have just as easily pulled up to the ports dock and talked them out of a slip.
7. Just because you asked garibaldi marina about some moorage, doenst mean they are the bad guys for not giving it to you.
8. all 70 slots were full or he would have given you one
9. He said if somebody needed medical care and they pulled up he would put them on the fuel dock if he had to, while he drove them to the hospital if needed. This in not how he read the situation. No medical emergency.
10. He did expalin where the transient dock was and how to park their. It is the only other option he thought of quickly. It is no more than a 1/4 mile walk around the harbor. You could have even got a ride across the harbor in another boat.
11. Jeff said you were very emotionally charged. Hence you only saw your side of the situation. Anybody would have been in the same mental state after going thru what you did.

I don't condone nor commend the way Jeff dealt with the situation. Their are ways to tell people no and they feel good about it, Jeff did not even come close to that diplomacy. He would like to talk to you if you have beef with him. His number is (503) 322-3312. He is a reasonable guy to talk to.

Big Juan, since this was your first post and may have been used to other BB's I'll excuse your improper language if you will access your post and click on the edit icon above it (looks like a pad and pencil). You can then delete your introduction to Ifish at the start of your post. I'm sure you will be reading today or soon to check out the reactions to your post. If you do not delete it quickly you will be banned. Persistent rules breakers on this Ifish BB that have been banned and re-register to get their kicks are now being IP traced for permanent removal and complaint precidence filed with their net carrier. And thanks members for helping handle this by addresing it on the spot and then e-mailing me about it. That is what I had in mind with my Need Help post yesterday. - RT (BB moderator)

[corrirod]

Sorry I haven't replied sooner, I was fishing Tillamook bay Mon. and today. Went with Guide Wayne Pritty and had 6 fish on, 4 in the boat, 2 takedowns.(1 Nook, 2 coho, 1 coho jack)
First, regarding Big Juan's post: Big Juan, don't get the wrong idea, I was no hero. As I said in my post, IT WAS LUCK! Several ALUMINUM boats tried to launch people onto the jetty unsuccessfully but LUCKILY I found a spot to get my buddy onto the rocks in a fiberglass boat(you know, like the one on the rocks that was UPSIDE DOWN). If you were there, and on the south side of the jetty, you would have noticed how the swells hitting the tip of the jetty dissipated slightly but continued lengthwise down the jetty. You would have also noticed that the ALUMINUM Coast Guard Cutter was also unable to get him off the jetty.
I do agree with you re:the title of my post. I could have been more respectful. It was a horrible accident and I hope I never see anything like that again. I apologize.
As for the marina having something to do with the tragedy, I hope no one but you got that out of my post. They had nothing to do with it, but neither did I and I still tried to help.
Bait O'Eggs, I appreciate you talking with Jeff and I understand some of his rebuttal but these are my discrepencies.
#1,2,3--Given
#4,5--I never at any time said my buddy was in anyway hurt, I explained it to him exactly as I did you. My reasoning for wanting to get my buddy: The coast guard told me I would have to pick him up at the hospital. From the time he left in the helicopter it took me 30 minutes to get back to the marina, 10 minutes to find some sort of mooring rope because buddy took mine went he jumped on the jetty(I had to untie one of my crab trap ropes to use it), and 10-15 minutes talking to ODFW and explaining why I had 2 halibut in a boat with 1 fisherman. As for the few minutes longer to load the boat I would like to revert back to his #1 and #2 statements. THE RAMP WAS STACKED WITH BOATS! I own a 20ft. Bayliner Trophy. Not a boat that's easily loaded with 1 person, thus the reason I don't usually fish alone. And it sure makes people happy when you have to go get your truck, park it at the ramp, get the boat moved somewhere in the vicinity of the ramp dock until a space opens, re-moor at the dock, go back down the truck, go move the boat onto the trailer, winch the boat to the trailer, pull the trailer out of the water with the boat off center then back up again and try and get it centered, then run as fast as you can back into the truck and pull it out.(Only took 2 tries, I was amazed)
#6--Didn't realize that, not familiar enough with the Port, I've always used the marina. Next time.
#7--No pitty on this one. If I was going to get a cup of coffee it might have been a different story.
#8--I was in slip A7, and A6 had no one in it either. Not sure if there were others but didn't think I'd need to check.
#9--Never stated it was a medical emergency, just looking for a little help.
#10--It's this statement that I can't believe he has the nerve to say. He made no such suggestion, it was a customer standing in line, that overheard my conversation with him, that suggested the transient dock!!! And no one made an offer to shuttle me across, especially him! I guess I could have re-moored there, paid the $10 fee and been back to my truck within ANOTHER 30-40 minutes, I guess my expectations of him were a little high to think I could use a slip for an hour.
#10--Here's another beauty, I was calm as a cucumber until after the 2nd time I explained why I was asking for the space and he acted like a such a jerk, then I expressed my emotions.

I very much appreciate you posting Jeff's side of the story. You've done this Board, and my post, a great service by making sure everyone heard both sides before making a rash decision. Unfortunately though, I still have no intention of changing my attitude towards him or his marina. This was not the first time he and his wife have acted unprofessionally nor will it be the last based on some of the previous posts and eyewitness accounts. There is a reason they are a struggling store, it's them.
The business they are now losing from me doesn't amount to squat, however it's money I worked hard for and was willing to give them if they just acted somewhat grateful for it. I don't know about you but even if someone only loans me a dime so I can buy a pop, I still say "Thank You".

[RKB]

corrirod
Stick to your guns you can fish by me any time.its amazing how people can second guess you when your attemting to do the right thing.I would guess that your mind was on your friend its to bad there are people like BJ but I think that the rest of us are behind you.
RKB

[garyk]

corrirod,

Great post there, and of course, job well done on your heroic effort.

Also do appreciate bait-o-eggs long post on the Marina's half of the story.

However, after reading the marina's explanation, it seems more like a list of rationalizations on why they couldn't do more, and the attitude that others have mentioned does seem to show through.

Even before reading any of this, and as a very new user of the launch there (last season was first time) I thought the store had a negative vibe to it. Maybe its from the time last year when we were coming back in and I was off getting the truck, the wind was up the tide was running and my wife at the helm was having trouble holding steady. So she backs into a open slip to get out of the way (doesn't tie off) and next thing someone from the store is giving her grief about its for paying customers, etc. etc. THis season I notice a sign about not stepping across the rope on the dock, no small print explantion, just -- DON"T DO IT!. So much for 'friendly' small town courtesy.

If the folks are gonna be in a 'service industry' and hope to stay there, they might want study up on the customer service aspect of business management.

Just remember - every purchase is a political statement; vote with your wallet.

[Steve]

Ya know, somebody should print this thread off and send a copy to the Garibaldi City Council, The Coast Guard, Chamber of Commerce, the local newspaper. As I see it, part of the problem is a private business placed too close to a public ramp, with all the continual comings and goings and confusion, there needs to be more short-term docking and up graded parking for trailers..Garibaldi Marina should be located out by the front of the docks maybe by the old CG building so they can have their boat rentals, fuel dock, sales of sundries and tackle. It would take the pressure off of both user groups...or maybe a floating shop for the tourist season and haul in for winter.??? Just thinking

[OneLastCast]

"tour" : to travel from place to place...
"tourist": a person who makes a tour esp. for pleasure.
With all due respect..everyone who comes to the coast to fish is a "tourist". Now we would like to accomadate you all but it is extremely difficult. The city of Garibaldi does not run the boat launch or most of the facilities. It is the Port of Garibaldi. Supported by taxes from the few people who live in the town. Let me say that that money is considerably less than what is available in the valley. The current Port manager has done wonders in getting grants and funding for what you currently have but to few accolades. He is still trying. Please realize that try as we might to be the playground for the valley it is difficult to fund the playground apparatus.
Now, CORRIROD, I appreciate all you did in your efforts to help the situation, having been a volunteer on the local fire department for many years I know the bravery, quick thinking, luck, and anatomical spherical apparatus required to do what you did. I, we, appreciate it. I just ask you to think on how you approached the owner on leaving your boat. Please remember that the request to leave a boat or any other favor is asked of the proprietors at least 50 times a day. You would not believe some of the sorry exuses or reasons that one would hear. It really is amazing. There is a saying in Manzanita which is " Come to Manzanita and leave your mind at home" because that is what all the tourist seem to do. Sometimes I think people love Nehalem and Manzanita because they have 24 foot wide sidewalks. (they still haven't figured out why the yellow line is painted down the middle).
Everyone is reacting to the emergency directly in front of them. Try to see all involved.
And RT...granted I did not see the deletions of the "expletives" from BIG JUAN but I sincerely hope that it wasn't the position of the board to censor a dissenting decision.
Please remember that a few of us live full time at the coast and try to get along (Rodney King gives seminars)but we get rather test when the valley wants to make the Tillamook Forest a State Park, wants to shut down the Nehalem Hatchery,wants to increase the size of the minimum lot area for building, etc. etc. etc..
Sorry, just had to vent, some people are good, some are bad, and some wish they had all that money to buy the boat, truck and fishing gear that Jen spoke about in her joke.

[OneLastCast]

Oh, by the way,
last week several pods of silvers decided that they were not going to wait for rain and headed up the North Fork. There are fish scattered throughout, (I have fresh eggs to show for it) and with rain this weekend they should be moving.

Lastcast:
Jen deleted Big Juan's foul language expletive because it is both against the stated rules for board conduct, offensive, and because it was not needed to make his point. And it definitely was NOT censure! She left the rest of his rant on there. -- As for the mentality of many "tourists" I agree with and understand your frustrations. We have the same "challenged" group to live with inland. But don't forget that with the decline in economic contributions to the coastal economy from the timber and fishing industries that tourism has become the economic salvation of many of the communities along the coast. Reminds me of the cliche', "Can't live with them and can't live without them". - RT

[Steve]

OneLastCast, while I agree Tourist (Terrorist) come to visit, remember they are the bread and butter (economy) for your area, I don't consider the Nehalem Bay as a destination point, just another fishing hole. Before you write me off as another flatlander, my family and relatives have lived in Tillamook, Rockaway, and Manzanita for the last 40 years. You may even know one cousin who owns a business in Manzanita...and another who works for the PUD in Tillamook. Still the ramps and parking around the bay could use some improvement Don't take this for more that just an opinion....Steve

My reply to the flatlander bit has always
been, OK STEEP PEOPLE, we are all Oregonians
and not from Kansas! LOL

[Sanddune]

onelastcast

I think if you will read past posts you will find that many of your concerns are the same as others on this forum. As ****** said we are ALL in this together and we need to work
with each other to solve problems, not create more. As with any issue not everyone will agree- we all have are reasons for our opinion. However the more we read the better we can understand both sides of the issue thank you for your input- hope to hear more from you in the future-- thanks for the fish report

[Osprey]

I've following this post since it started
Great job Corrirod ,fast thinking on you and you're friends part.
I run a business also bottom line is the customer comes first always, in this situation you went above and behond the call ,the marina dude should have done the same
As mentioned before speak with you're wallet it's your'e hard earned money spend it as you want...again nice work

------------------
Row quietly and fish a Cataraft !!-------<'))>><

I have been tired and a bit offended by the local coastal mentality that refers to Ore. Valley residents as "flatlanders", with a definite context toward them being unwelcomed idiots (only by some at the coast; not everyone). How would you coastal residents that use the F term for valley people like to be refered to as "cow sniffin' whinny wimp salt rats"? Same mentality (salt rats not welcome east of the coast range). In reality you won't find that 'tude laid on you in P-town. I've told the real truth and I'll tell it again: because you live closer to a river &/or fish it more often does NOT entitle you to more intrinsic rights to it! Period! There are good fishermen that take good care of the environment from inland and from the coast. Conversely, there are slobs that harass other fishers, snag fish, and litter that come from both areas also. Can't we think of a better term than the derogatory blanket term of flatlander? Any suggestions. Since I live on the west slopes of the West Hills near Ceder Mill and have a view of the coast range I definitely am not a flatlander, but neither are the others in the context in which it's usually used. You may refer to me as an "inland hillside SOB" if you like; sob = stopping overdone b*tching . How about either just "caring fishers" or "snobsNslobsNsobs" where they apply; regardless of address? For short, maybe just "good fishers" or "slob fishers". Any other reference ideas? - RT




[This message has been edited by RT (edited 09-29-2000).]

You CAN win over a STEEP PERSON though,
by not acting like a FLAT LANDER and leave
your double corkies and double hooks on
the bottom at home!! (Sorry RT could not
resist one last PLEA for this Fall)

******

[OneLastCast]

Hey R.T.
Just got in from taking a couple of whiffs(okay...four)of bossie(now thatis a heifer that is prettier than a speckled pup under a red wagon)and noticed you seem to have a hook in your tail. Now I went back and perused my earlier post looking for that derogatory "F" word and didn't seem to find it. But who knows, my head is still full of "the vapors". What I was trying to say earlier was first a comment to STEVE in that the Port of Garibaldi is trying really hard to accomodate and then a comment to CORRIDOR trying to explain why, maybe, the Garibaldi Marina was not so receptive to the leaving of a boat.

The last part? Well it was due to getting another Scotch and dropping my drawers.

BUT..IF YOU ARE CALLING ME OUTSIDE, LET'S GO....

The term VALLEY. If you have spent any length of time at the COAST, you will notice that people do not go to Portland or Salem, they go to the VALLEY. That is a geographical location, it is not a derogatory term.

The last couple of post's made it quite clear that we are dependent on Tourism now that all the living wage jobs are gone. So it has become obvious that the Oregon Coast will go to any extreme to make someone driving on HWY 101 to stop and open their wallet for any bauble or gee gaw we might have. (How much will you pay for a sand dollar)You know we are a ***** and we know we are a *****, we just ask you to tell us that we are pretty once in a while. Dinner wouldn't be bad.

As far as the "Valley's" control on the Coast, other than with their "wallets". The drive to make Tillamook Forest a State Park. Not one meeting regarding that was held in Tillamook County. The closest it came was Cannon Beach (Clatsop County) where one fine gentleman got up and stated that it doesn't matter what the Coast wants, the valley has all the votes and we don't have a choice.

On October 8, the LCDC is meeting in Forest Grove to discuss restrictions on all development within 100 feet of Hwy 101. Why bother having that meeting at the Coast.

All the projected hatchery closures are on the Coast, what about the Clackamas, Eagle Creek, Santiam, etc, etc.

I very rarely use the Term Flatlander, some of my best friends are flatlanders (I have always wanted to say that).

REAL TRUTH: Reality is "P-Town" constantly lays that "tude" on us, but we just avert our eyes and sell them that ceramic seagull.

In General.....I live on the River. I don't claim rights to anything I don't own.(I do not own the bed of the stream). I treat everyone as friends that drift by my back yard until they prove otherwise. I have even taken the video cameras from boaters to film their fish catching escapades for them.


Now, I just got a new calf that is smelling pretty good right now so I have to go.

Sincerely
OneLastCast

PS: For all of you "VERTICALLY CHALLENGED" We have received 0.87" of rain since last night, walked out to the river after work and there are quite a few wakes making their way upstream. What to do...hunt or fish.

Hey OLC (Onelastcast), that wasn't me calling you outside, it was that aroma you refered to (after I did first admittingly) . I am OK with the fall smell of manure. Really; it reminds me of lots of good fishing memories and the ones to be caught yet. And I realize that you didn't use the term flatlander, but it has been used so much over the years by some coastal residents, and I've never heard it used in an endearing manner; if ya know what I mean. Thought it was a good place to address it some. I like your posting style OLC. And your seeming 'tude. If you don't mind an ol' inland hillsider, who's home away from home is at the coast much of the year, coming on down to throw some tackle into your bankside fishing hole, send me an e-mail and I will share some caught fish with you and pack out some litter if there is any nearby. Take care. - RT

[garyk]

Hey Onelastcast --

Try this on, from my home in Central Oregon we refer to everyone west of the crest as 'flatlanders'. (I won't laugh too hard though as my friends in Leadville Co., at 10,000', call everyone in the country flatlanders. Gotta watch where you're standing, litterally, when you use that term.)

Also, regarding the Tillamook STATE Forest, here's some interesting Oregon history: After the 5 burns, the State put a bond measure on the ballot for funding to re-forest the Tillamook. Guess which counties voted down that bond measure?

Yup. Tillamook and Clatsop.

Is the term flatlanders used for other than a negative conitation? For so many years fishing I have only heard it as meaning outsiders to the coast; and not necessarily wanted at the coast. Excuse the rant if it's a more common and acceptable term. I didn't know that :O . Head in sand thing for me I guess. - RT

[garyk]

RT -- I'm not sure how derogatory it is, but it always seems to be used in an 'us versus them' sort of way; like we 'belong' here and you don't. It's a term I'd just as soon see fade away.

Gary, that was my take on it too. But I got confused by the post that made me think it was used more commonly than that. Thanks for the clarification. My head back out of sand? - RT

[wak'm&stak'm]

I dont know if you experienced the same thingbut, I hunt and spend some time in eastern Oregon. They have no trouble at all calling me a coastie. It doesn't bother me a bit, but at the same time I do feel like have intruded in their back yard and show that kind of respect for them and their area.
This is why It doesn't bother me when I have to put up with some crowds at times, it is only fair.
I have also always been treated very well over east and find in general a little better attitude.

[RKB]

WHY CAN'T WE JUST ALL GET ALONG !!!!!!
Just A thought I see it a lot on the east side especially this time of year you know.Got to get to the best spot first or i'll miss out.To bad this takes all the fun out of it for most of us.But like most of my trips the number of good people are far greater than the bad and I'm not going to let the few run my life or ruin my day this is supposed to be fun.I also don't believe it has to do with east or west It's in a persons makeup.I get treated just as bad by the so called locals if not worse in my own back yard. A good example is two guys I work with have the same fishing hole and if one is there before the other its an all out war even though this hole will hold 5-8 boats.
I guess that I just don't get it.
RKB


[This message has been edited by RKB (edited 10-01-2000).]