Any Type of Snagging (Including Corkie Jerks) Is Worse Than Gillnets !

There has been so many reports of snagging on our board, Bob's board, and to me in conversations/e-mails that it is as alarming as it is maddening. I dislike nate killing gillnets but at least for now they are somewhat monitored by regulation, and can say they are legal. Not so with lowlife snaggers (and litter lowlifes for that matter). I think it has probably gotten worse this year because of better fish returns and stacked up slow biting fish in water that is too clear and warm yet. As mentioned in other posts the rest of us sportsfishers need to get over any childish "don't snitch" syndrome and cell phone the fish cops immediately. Or more rivers may get closed! Particularly galling to me is the disguised snagging by long leader and corkie jerks, jerking (whiifftt, whiifftt, whiifftt)! Followed closely by the Buzz Bomb/Crocodile "jiggers"; ya right. Very bothersome is that I've gotten reliable source reports about well known salmon/steelhead fishermen using the long leaders and corkies to either slowly drift them or plunk them in stacked up non-biting fish. When the circling fish with their mouths going open to get more oxygen from the relatively warm water get "flossed" by the line going into their mouths and the snagger feeling this, or having the line drawn tight by the moving fish, sets the hook into the outside area of the mouth. THAT IS SNAGGING. So is constantly setting the hook everytime they feel a mainline rub, and the hook going anywhere but inside the fishes mouth. Some with sunglasses, some without, have gotten very good at this stuff and then go widely brag how they had multi-fish days while others were getting skunked. Ugly! Some of them are good enough fishermen to catch fish legally by enticing a legitimate bite, yet some of these better known ego jerks, such as Tim Genie and Noroe Semiflosski, should show a better example and do a self search about their seeming need to falsely impress other anglers; especially when the opposite is unwittingly happening to their reputations. Shame! Excuse the editorial type discust rant. All snagging needs to be driven away! - RT



[This message has been edited by RT (edited 09-22-2000).]

[Mike H]

AMEN!

[Gone Fishin]

DEATH TO ALL (intentional) SNAGGERS !!!

[happybrew]

Amen! But keep in mind that some of those people you think are snagging are actually inexperienced. Most books on salmon and steelhead fishing tell the reader to set the hook any time they feel anything. Until someone has been fishing a while and knows what a strike feels like, they set the hook for rocks, suddenly strong current picking up the lure... and line hits by fish. I know because when I started out, I set the hook on EVERYTHING. Last year, around this time, I saw a lot of foul hooked fish, but everytime the angler would cuss and gripe about it not being hooked legally. I'd certainly hate to see a witch hunt. But actual illegal snaggers should definitely be sentenced to death by being pecked by ducks.

happybrew

[Navigator]

How is then you properly fish a corky? Isn't this a good technique to entice a legal bite between rains? I have never fished corkies for coho and was planning on approaching it like steelhead - 18-24" leader, drift to bump bottom and set the hook when it stops or pauses.

[HOGTIDE]

RT
I agree with you throughout your discussion. However the problem is that often some types of ?snagging? methods fit within the letter of the law , but not within the bounds of ethical fishing. More than once, I have watched supposedly 'purest' fly fishermen take upriver salmon by fishing over fastwater gravel beds on the edges(reds). Nothing creates a better snagging(flossing) drift than a fast-sink line with a lightly dressed fly hook. These guys are not naive as to why they are being so successful. They're just too fish hungry or boast focused to give it up and fish ethically in a given situation.
You had mentioned buzz bombs, which have been very successful for me personally in the past. I have fished open Canadian salt extensively using bombs...theyre great. But also, bringing them to our home tidal areas I quickly found that they snag fish frequently in a confined fish situation. So...I put the bombs away, tried a different method. There is nothing more depressing than thinking you've had a solid take, just to find you've foulhooked a fish. Why don't these guys feel this way?

Nav, yes corkie fishing is fine with proper leader lengths in reasonably swift moving current. And in the event that a fish is hooked on the outside of the mouth it is released; not ego driven to be called "close enough" to the mouth! What was refered to is very slow to not moving current in deep holes of stacked up fish in which long leader "flossing" and outright belly jerking takes place intentionally. Spread awareness to others so we can help game officers clean this ugliness up! - As for Buzz Bombs/Crocadiles etc., they are effective in saltwater fisheries where there is more legitimate bites and less snagging. The 2 parents and teenage son we watched in the Stryker jetboat Thur. on the Siletz tidewater were typical. They were anchored in one of the deeper longer holes and were doing long casts with reel jerk reel jerk reel jerk; the jerks! Even properly jigged B-Bombs in which they are let out almost straight down to near bottom then lifted SLOWLY and dropped quickly for a dropflutter take, often snags fish too in tidewater. We watched until the son snagged one on the back (you can tell pretty easy when there is no head shakes, only a tug o' war). He knew we had been watching them so he kept glancing at us and trying to work the fish to the other side of the boat. Hmmmm! He had to tug so hard he broke the heavy line. Kinda wish he broke his rod and wrist too. Even though there are a few legit hits on these heavy lures, the majority in tidewater are snagged. Enough so that most doing it know they are intentionally snagging fish. They should have outlawed these things in fresh water long ago! Watch and get after these people; and if you see them keep a snagged fish report them ASAP. - The best way to get legitimate bites in slow or tidewater holes is to floatfish bait or lures (jigs). Secondarily, retrieve spinners. The spinners will also snag fish on occassion, but less often and usually in the dorsal fin after the line rubs along the back of the fish and gets hung on the dorsal just before the spinner hits. It's easier to remove the few spinner/dorsal snagged fish than it is the more frequently snagged deep back hooked B-Bombed fish. Pretty obvious to even less experienced fishermen; that we can quickly educate. - RT

[Navigator]

RT

Thanks. I was very conscientious about this today, mainly fished a spinner and much to my amazement was rewarded with a nice legitimate hit. These fish will bite and I guess you just got to accept that during the days (err, years) they don't, the're other things to appreciate.

Howdy,
Death by duck pecking. Now thats funny! I used to think everyone using Buzzbombs in freshwater was just trying to snag fish. If used in an applicable situation (Snohomish R. for example) with a single barbless, and like R.T. said is lifted instead of jerked, they are very effective. Especially a pink one for Humpies or chromed for Coho. I'd gladly give up the right to use them though if I thought it would curtail poaching. Like gun control, the criminals would do the same old and the honest citizen loses another degree of freedom. I've often thought it would be cool if they made an aluminium model Buzzbomb for river fishing. (Usually while snapping one off on a root wad)

[TheRogue]

I fished the 101 hole (blackberry, high bank, whatever name you use) on the Salmon on Saturday. There wer 5-6 fish caught by people throwing spinners.....all were foul-hooked. The one and only corkie fish caught all morning was a light tap-tap, and was fair hooked in the corner of the mouth.

In the afternoon, we fished up at the "forestry" hole. Should be called the "Forest Service" hole, because that's who owns the land. Anyway, between 5 boats and 15 bankies, it was quite a show. At least 75% of the fish hooked were in the mouth, those where the rod throbbed with the movement of the tail, or just pulled without any control, were broken off immediately. Very vocal "peer pressure". This continued right up until the tide switched and started coming in....and it was basically done, even though the fish couldn't have gone anywhere.

Yes, there were several, obviously inexperienced people who were jerking at any bump, pull, or yank that telegraphed up the line. But most weren't that way. It's generally pretty obvious when the rod begins a slow (or rapid) steady bend that the fish is moving with the line caught in the mouth or on a fin, or maybe the razor-sharp hook is in the belly. What I always look for is the tap-tap of a trout, and that's when I set the hook. In the last two years, I have not intentionally snagged a fish by jerking at a line bump.

While, in general, I agree with your statements about snagging, I do not agree that the only way to catch tidewater fish is with bait and a bobber. The Salmon River is so completely covered with "pogies" (bullheads, sculpins, whatever) that the bait shops make a fortune off anyone using shrimp/eggs. As for long leaders, I use 18"-22" length, but I switch to a 26-30 inch leader when the tide is running hard, because the current will pull that floating corkie down close to the bottom with a short leader.

As for Buzz-Bombs / Nordics, you can always tell the people who either don't know, or do it intentionally... the rapid jerking motion, without paying attention to the falling of the jig (which is when the fish will actually hit).

I would say, in my experience, that at least 60% of snagging is a matter of inexperience and lack of knowing how to fish the lure (corkie, Buzz-Bomb, etc.), rather than intentional mischief. There are so many people fishing everywhere that intentional snagging does not go unnoticed.

T.R.

[superfly]

I spent a couple of hours today fishing the toutle river below the mouth of the green with about 75 to 100 other people and was pleasently suprised to see no one trying to intentionaly snag fish, amazing, words out I guess. I was there one day last year when they ran a sting and the wrote 43 people in one swoop. Myself and two other anglers were the only ones not cited at that time. This is usaully a place were the snaggers frolic because of the shallow water and how bunched up the fish get. In fact I think there was only one foul hooked fish while I was there and once the guy saw it was foul hooked he just pointed his rod at it and broke it off. I did manage to hook a king on a spinner that did have some jewlery attached to him, after I landed him I removed the extra tackle and sent him back on his way to do his thing. (there is no chinnok retention there) it figures, I caught 4 nice chinook, no silvers, They liked just eggs fished with a small split shot or the # 4 mor-tac silver spinner with green tape on the blade. good luck and keep spreading the word. Superfly

They kill the bite everytime in tidewater.
Over the years we have "policed" them and
attempted to change their behavior, but
are pretty much overwhelmed. Boat numbers
and cell phone I guess are now our best
tools, if we can get someone to take note
when we make the calls. In my younger days,
a good butt whippin on the boat ramp was
in order, but now this could mean a bullet
to your head or destruction of your vehicle
and property. If they want a fish that bad
will hook one and hand it to them, at least
they will know the true pleasure of a head
shake versus a belly or tail shake. Recently,
I have been tagged as the bad guy on the river for attempting to change behaviors. If
someone is not vocal, the behavior will
NEVER change. Oh well, I'll continue to be
the bad guy I suppose.

Good post ******! Keep after them. If others join in, peer pressure is powerful and can really help to clean up snagging. If someone snibbles at you for "doing the right thing" just explain that snagging is a very real threat to river closures. They already know it's wrong. Our thanks. - RT

[RKB]

******
I'm with you on this one somebody has to be the bad guy.Tell them that only real men catch fish and real women (sorry Jen)and if these guys want to keep snagging fish .Have them try this method:slowly as you pass the fishing hole you hike up your skirt and speed up the cart(shopping cart that is) to max snagging speed and pluck that fresh salmon from the shelf they would get more satisfaction and I hear the catching is great.every pass it's fish on.
RKB


[This message has been edited by RKB (edited 09-27-2000).]

[boater]

i agree that snaggers are scum but to say they are worse than gillnets is so stupid i cant believe it, the muckelshoots took "7500" silvers in one night on the duwamish river, i hate snaggers to but atleast they can be caught and givin a ticket, there is nothing we can do about the gillnets.

[RKB]

Boater
the thing that makes them worse is that they are hidding behind the title of a sportsmen.where the netters are not and it is still legal for them to net fish this way.But maybe some day we will not have to worry about the nets.We can all dream the impossible dream.
RKB


[This message has been edited by RKB (edited 09-26-2000).]

[This message has been edited by RKB (edited 09-26-2000).]

Thanks RKB, well put. Boater, I'm aware of the amount that gillnetters take, including native fish, and am very much against them as I've osted many times. But when I say snaggers are worse it's not in numbers of fish taken per individual but rather worse moralistically. - RT