Imigration Demonstrations

[Mr. Carp]

I was wondering what people thought about the big illegal immigration debate going on lately. I don't want to start a race bash or anything else.

I personally think that if the person is illegal, then they have no rights and if caught, should be deported. Plain and simple. That's my stand.

[Queeg]

That sounds good, but it's more complicated than that isn't it?

The US economy thrives on cheap labor from illegals.

Our "representatives" are very concerned with certain groups of voters.

How to pander to everyone at once?

[kaaruchi]

The US economy has adjusted to having cheap labor available. I agree with Mr. Carp, If they are here illegally, for whatever reason, they should be deported. If they come through the system, like many of our ancestors did, than we welcome them with opens arms. The economy will adjust itself.

[EULACHON]

Last time I checked mail theft by meth heads was a federal offence......are they a protected voting population also???

I think if you want to come to this country thats great but you should do it the way they used to do it.......come here learn the language and work hard to become a citizen.....

Oh well somebody has to work cheap and undocumented.

Paul

[TheRogue]

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[CATCH AND EAT]

Kyle the planets are aligned because I pretty much agree with ya.

I am a true believer in this: Enter legally and welcome. Illegal=see ya later.

[ajfishfinder]

Just wait until the day when some lawyer figures out that he can put together a class action suit. Many of the illegals are infact using a legal SSN. Most are in someone else's name. At some point they will want to collect when they retire and we will be stuck with not only paying it but also paying the lawyers fee's. We had a corporate crackdown on this about 5 years ago. I was amazed how fast some of them came in with a new driver's license and SS card with a new name but with their own photo on it. This is also one of my huge gripes. I pay for insurance on all my cars. If you have ever been involved with a car accident you know that NONE of the illegals bother with it. Just chaps my hide raw.

[salmonfever]

They should do a "green card check' at the demonstration, and then ship them back out in mass. They may be providing labor to certain employers which is cheaper than legal citizens, but the cost gets passed on to the rest of us in the cost of social services and health care and schooling of the illegals.

[MattPark]

They just put one of the "demonstrators" on the Lars Larson show. When she was asked why she was there, she said "for justice, and, uhhhh, I don't know?"

[jigmaster]

If we demonstrated like that in Mexico we would all be in jail and have to pay a bribe to get out...

[crabbait]

Kyle the planets are aligned because I pretty much agree with ya.

I am a true believer in this: Enter legally and welcome. Illegal=see ya later.

Okay, this is scary. I agree with Bernie and Kyle! (C&E and The Rogue)

[Borrowit]

I don't understand how they can stand out and protest while doing things like burning our flag... it really chaps me that our constitution allows this freedom for all and somepeople take advantage...
oh well... Until our Leader figure out that we are being used for our freedom and our extraordinary health care and more, then we are going to have to put up with this....
Can't wait to see our nation swing back to the other side where we value education and pay and hire according best person... I have lost several jobs that I have interviewed for beacuse I am the "wrong" person for the job because of Quotas....
Really to sad

[judyfish99]

Yes, Crabbait, I agree with them, too. From what I hear, it is only $150 fine per illegal head hired...

Oh please tell me I am wrong...

[Ni!]

I'm in favor of immigrants who come here to work hard and become Americans. When you consider the initiative it takes to come here illegally, it stands to reason that we're getting the most motivated workers that Mexico has to offer. That's not a bad thing. However, like others I've been appalled at the blatant Viva la Mexico theme of these demonstrations that are taking place. The more they demonstrate, the more I want them gone.

I just saw an interesting summary of how the Mexican constitution treats immigrants to Mexico.

In brief, the Mexican Constitution states that:

* Immigrants and foreign visitors are banned from public political discourse.
* Immigrants and foreigners are denied certain basic property rights.
* Immigrants are denied equal employment rights.
* Immigrants and naturalized citizens will never be treated as real Mexican citizens.
* Immigrants and naturalized citizens are not to be trusted in public service.
* Immigrants and naturalized citizens may never become members of the clergy.
* Private citizens may make citizens arrests of lawbreakers (i.e., illegal immigrants) and hand them to the authorities.
* Immigrants may be expelled from Mexico for any reason and without due process.

It's pretty outrageous that a country with laws like that can criticize us for our extremely lenient immigration laws. Time to take the gloves off, I say.

Ni!

[TheRogue]

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[skybuster]

I have first hand experience with the illegal labor problem, so here is my story.

I used to work in and own a company in the construction field a few years ago. I don't do it any more, and a lot of the reason for that is directly attributable to illegal labor.

We provided a specialized service to homeowners and there were only two companies that provided this service in the Portland metro area. Many of our clients were upscale as the homes we worked on were older historic type houses for the most part.

I earned a decent wage doing this, $18.00 an hour plus bonuses. In 1997 I made over 42K in a year at just 22 years old, and the job was seasonl so I made that money in about 9-10 months.

In 1998 my boss tried to hire a latino guy to lead him to the illegal labor promise land. The guy he hired was actually a legal citizen, but he spoke fluent spanish and was the right skin color, so the boss figured that once this guy was trained he would be able to lead a crew of illegals at a fraction of the cost.

His plan backfired. The latino guy learned the business as well as he could in a year, and then took off. He started his own company and was competition just a year later with an all illegal crew. In the short term it worked out very good for me and my guys because I was able to put my boss out of business, and then buy his equipment and client list from him at a great price.

Soon the effects of illegal labor became apparent. Our bids were forced down by 20% or more to compete with the other company on a lot of jobs. Also there were now 3 companies, 2 legal 1 illegal, that were competing for jobs.

Eventually my partner gave in and decided that illegal labor was the only way to go. I sold my share of the company to him and got out. I can proudly state that I have never earned a dime from illegal labor.

This is one small industry that used to pay skilled laborers $16-20.00 per hour plus bonuses. Now the average wage is down around $12.00 per hour.

The rallying cry that illegals are doing jobs that Americans won't is BS. I knew plenty of guys that were willing to work for me.

In my time in the construction trades I slowly watched as jobs like roofing, drywall, and painting slowly went to a pretty much all illegal workforce. I begged my boss not to train that guy, but eventually they got us too.

We need to stop the bleeding soon.

I am all for legal immigration. Heck the guys that work at my old company are actually all very nice people, but they are here illegally. I know that at least one of them took his money home last winter for a vacation, and then snuck back across the border.

The problem is that most people don't care until it is too late, and by then people will be telling them that only illegals want to do their jobs anyway.

Sorry for the length, I hope it draws a picture for some people.

[drano100]

Send all 11,000,000 back, their are legal ways to get into the USA they should try useing them. What is wrong letting the kids back in the berry and bean feild, most of us over 40 worked in them for little money for years, and most of us came out ok. Their are around 175,000 illegals in Oregon, around 60,000 are kids going to school, at $12,000(what PPS gets per student) per student cost, your looking at $720,000,000 could that money be put to better use?, you add in health care and other public assistance money and your way over a billion dollars. So just how cheap is their labor really.

[CATCH AND EAT]

Okay, this is scary. I agree with Bernie and Kyle! (C&E and The Rogue)

Man, I better check my voter registration card.

[husker]

In the first place we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the man's becoming in very fact an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag, which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any foreign flag of a nation to which we are hostile...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907

oh and 1 last thing. this is not a immigrant issue. it is an illegal alien issue.

i am ron rangel and i approved this message

[Super Fluke]

Send them back to were they came from if there illegal.

[CMallardDrake]

Wow...this whole illegal immigrant/current demonstration situation goes to prove that a nation of laws can not turn a blind eye to the blatant breaking of the law for decades, and then all of a sudden try to enforce the law and expect things to be civil in the streets.

Where this will lead and how it all pans out in the end, does not look good to me. In our own country and in a case other than a foreign war...may I use the word "quagmire" and feel the description fits the situation?

........ ....... ....... ....... ....... .......

[SOL]

Some illegals here in Oregon are registered voters as well.



Also, my personal favorite is Oregon's stance on enforcement of illegals...


181.850 Enforcement of federal immigration laws. (1) No law enforcement agency of the State of Oregon or of any political subdivision of the state shall use agency moneys, equipment or personnel for the purpose of detecting or apprehending persons whose only violation of law is that they are persons of foreign citizenship present in the United States in violation of federal immigration laws.

I have a TON of information on this, I will post later..I did a whole term project on this issue..

[wannacatchem]

What I don't understand is that the media, and many here on this forum, continue to use the term "illegal immigrant" By definition of the term "illegal" they are criminals

An immigrant is somebody that comes into this country leagally

An person here illegaly is an "illegal alien"

I have very strong opinions on this subject. In 1996 I was charged with attempting to bring a foreign national into the USA thru illegal means. In other words, my government said I falsified a immigration visa to bring my adopted foriegn child into the country. I was active duty military at the time and had finished my 14th consecutive year of overseas service and was rotating to a stateside assignment. As my daughter was the 1st child to be adopted under new Okinawan laws that were designed to prevent illegal adoptions, great scrutiny was done by the Philippine, Okinawan and American governments. One month prior to leaving for the states, I was emailing everybody I could think of, up to the Secretary of Defense as to why my daughters visa was not ready (I had submitted the application 13 months prior to rotating back to the states, as required by law). For the most part I received no answers until I made a formal complaint to the Oregon State Senators and Representatives in Washington. Within a week I was informed of the crimes I had commited. The ensuing investigation revealed that an immigration officer in the Philippines (a Philippine national) had signed off that the visa was falsely filed. He(they) had not performed the required investigations to complete the visa. The investigation required myself, my wife and our adopted daughter to submit to DNA testing, and took six months. I had to hire a lawyer at a cost of close to $20K. ON G.I. wages that was no small fee. All because somebody didn't do their job and decided to screw me because I made waves and got them chewed out.

Now my govermnet wants to allow 11,000,000 criminals a free ride. AGAIN!

I served my country honorably. I wish my so called leaders would, too.

We need a 2200 mile fence with a 500 foot no mans land on the southern side. enter that zone under peril of death. Want to come to America? Fill out the paperwork, pay the fees and wait your turn.

[aye fsh]

Want to come to America? Fill out the paperwork, pay the fees and wait your turn.

Pretty straightforward. I like it.

Want to come to America? Fill out the paperwork, pay the fees and wait your turn.

Pretty straightforward. I like it.

Exactly! That's the law and it should be enforced! The corporations and farms that knowingly hire illegals should be fined also!

[TonTo]

Illegal is illegal,you know with all the jails full,why don't we just pardon all the felons too while we are at it.

[skybuster]

Define, "Knowingly hire illegals".

I have spoken with the illegals and they have ways of acquiring the paperwork to make it look like they are legal. It only costs them about $150.00 to acquire a phony social security card, and then the great state of Oregon will give them a driver's license with the SS card and a couple piece's of mail.

Once they have a driver's license and a social security card they can go apply for a job. When the new employer asks them to fill out an I-9 they just need to provide a driver's license and social security card as proof of citizenship, and there you go. Now the illegal has effectively become a "legal" worker to the point that he is also paying taxes.

How far should the employer have to go to investigate the validity of the documents?

Don't begin to blame corporations, or small businessmen at all until you force the government to uphold the laws. I actually know of illegals working in union jobs and didn't see the union complaining when they were collecting their monthly dues either.

The fact is that the government is banking on the fact that each year millions of dollars are paid into social security that will never be collected. Although someone has already pointed out in this thread the mess that it could turn into.

[Old Coot]

It's a real quandary, isn't it?

When I got up this morning, I was pretty much in favor of returning illegals to the closest exit. Then about 400 local high-school students paraded past my office window in two groups, on their way to a rally at the Capitol Building. I didn't see any accompanying adults. The groups were about 80% minority, lots of hispanics, and asians, some blacks, a few mixed-race, and whites. Almost without exception, they were scrubbed clean, wearing clean clothes, with combed and brushed hair, and carrying lots of American flags. (And I saw 2 Mexican banners.) Two girls stepped out into the empty street to take a picture of the group as they marched past the building, and a motorcycle cop was on them in an instant, which was interesting because in over 5 years at that location I've seen literally thousands of people jaywalk and I've never seen a cop lift a finger about it.

Watching these students, who represent some country's future, got me to thinking; what about the children who were born to illegals in the US? I'm certainly no legal scholar, but isn't a child born in the US a naturalized citizen, whether his parents are citizens or aliens? Isn't he or she one of us?

What do we do with the children? Do we deny them their rights under the constitution and expel them with their parents? If we do that, then why can't we just deny constitutional rights to ANY citizen or group affiliated with a currently unpopular ideal or movement?

If so, then of what value is the constitution? If, in fact, the rights granted thereunder do not apply equally to all citizens - especially the youngest and most defenseless, doesn't the constitution just become a quaint, archaic relic; another vacuous political lie? And, if so, what replaces it as the foundation of the republic?

But, back to my original quandary, what becomes of the children?

[24 on/ 48 off]

Watching these students, who represent some country's future, got me to thinking; what about the children who were born to illegals in the US? I'm certainly no legal scholar, but isn't a child born in the US a naturalized citizen, whether his parents are citizens or aliens?

Yes. If you are born on american soil, you are a US citizen.

Isn't he or she one of us?

"<u>Us</u>" is an odd description. Human? American? Law-abiding person?

There are many answers to that one.

--spud--

[husker]

i dont care about the kids.....the parent commited a crime and the kids are being used as pawns to make sure they are able to stay......if mom and dad leave then the kids go with them.....lets reward people for being crooks....that will teach them a fine lesson

[DanS]

i dont care about the kids.....

[jocose]

my wife is originally from the phillipines. it took 6 months of hoop jumping to get her a legal green card and permission to enter the united states in 1976. she didnt work but instead went to mt hood community college (my dime) and after 4 years of hard work she earned a g.e.d and passed the written tests to become naturalized. she has been a u.s. citizen since 1980.. we are currently sponsoring her sister, submitting the necessary paper work in 1988 and was told then it would take 10 years before she could expect to move here too. in 1992 she was approved but put on a long waiting list to enter. its 18 years now and counting. we still wait... we went the legal route and now the government is going to tell my wife that all her hard work was for not and that waiting 20 plus years for her sister was all a joke too... if my wife had to wait, if she had to work hard to become a citizen than everyone else should too...being a u.s. citizen used to mean something......

[Tilla]

Give the human race a line in the sand and just see what happens. It's Cro-Mag time.

[USS Minnow]

Relocate 11 million people? Think hard and try to remember the last time in history that happened...

These people are not the enemy.

[duckboy]

All i have to say is that if you come here from someplace illegally, you are a criminal. Buh Bye.

You know what, the argument that the illegals are a viable and vital part of our workforce, and doing jobs that legal citizens wont is complete horsehockey,

When the illegals are not hired, and the job has got to get done, the price on the product is raised to the consumer to take care of the higher labor costs.


The job will get done.
My wife is from Thailand,

She had to jump through a thousand hoops and pay all kinds of fees be subjected to interviews, and background checks, even health screenings and wait and wait and wait. Finally, she was able to swear in and is now a Legal US Citizen rather than a resident alien.

To allow 11 million people to just walk on into and stay in this country, with no background checks, no criminal checks, no health checks, nothing... so that we can fill the nations vital need for $10 an hour lawncare and mfg jobs is a Gigantic Crock of steaming Mule flop.


In fact, I think that we legal Citizens should treat the Illegals with FIRST CLASS treatment.

We should get them all FIRST CLASS one way tickets back to their countries.

[elron]

I have to agree in the sending them back theory, all of em without papers. Supposedly the 2nd greatest source of income for the country of mexico is money sent from here by mexicans, illegal and legal. I dont agree with the farmers who say that if they werent here the crops would be grown offshore, in another country. I must agree with others who say we need to step back and put our own kids to work, or those welfare moms......

[drano100]

when the kids born here hit 18, or when they can provide for themselves the door is open. Mom and Dad were the bad guys here not the USA they should have thought about the kids before having them. Sorry it might not be PC but I work my a$$ off and am getting tired of having to pay the way all the time. All 11,000,000 of them should be sent home and the kids should go too

[JCJ]

There was a good article on this in Time magazine a while ago,was happening in the Hamptons on the East coast,a very ritzy neighborhood.Started a few years ago with a few coming in to do gardening and expanded after that.Current state of affairs is like around here with people standing on the corners trying to get any work possible.The most interesting part of the article was the fact that approx. 1.4 billion a month goes back to Mexico.So at what point pumping that kind of money into that country does it become a better place to live that this country? Way too many whiney Liberals here to try and do anything about it now.The illegals after all have all the rights and we can not abuse them or we are bad people!!

[Fish_N_Russ]

All I know is the deportation of 11 million would be a logistical nightmare. Also the 'round up' would be call to action of many that think the government is going to 'come and get them'. I agree something needs to be done, illegals have long been a financial tax on the system and they contribute very little back financially (ie taxes) since most work only seasonally. They get free schooling while at the same time learning english on our dime. They get free or very cheap health care again on our dime. They get a whole lot for what they contribute economically. No other country on the face of the earth treats its immigrants, whether legal or illegal as good as the USA.......and then this is the thanks we get.

[husker]

if an illegal comes to the US...and has a kid, that kid becomes a citizen automatically.....we pay for the health care....we give them housing......we give them food...we give them schooling.....of course the kids are being used as pawns in a fight as a reason to stay.....we should change the constitution to say only people legally here .....can have there kids born here be american citizens.......

we can not reward criminals for criminal behavior and expect anything other then more criminal thinking....trust me i have known a few illegals in the past and these were there thoughts......have a kid here and then be able to stay was tops on there list

most of the money earned here by southern nationals is sent back to the home land......that includes welfare moneys....our budgets are already taxed to the high heaven....and having people earn and then not spend it here does nothing but make us go broke.....

channel 6 news last week featured a story where a lady had an illegal husband and she was freaking out he might have to return to south....she clearly stated on that news show he made $8 less an hour because he was working under the table and didnt have health care provided by his job....this is a clear case of illegals taking american jobs for less...an under cutting the american worker.....the standard pay for people in his industry was around $19 per hour....dont tell me americans would pass on that job....

[River Ranger]

If they get to stay then I don't want to pay taxes either .

Get them out.build a fence,and don't say it can't be done.If we can put men in to space I think we can build a big fence.
If they enter legally,welcome.

It really chaps me that these people think they have rights here.

I also think it's funny that GW really think's the work visa program could work.why would they want to get the Visa to pay taxes when they can just walk in and not pay a dime

RR.

[Straydog]

I read recently that the GAO estimates it would cost us 225 Billion to round them up and send them back. This would be as wrong as the Billions we are wasting in Iraq.

Why not deplete the supply of jobs for these people? If indeed they are taking jobs that our own won't take, if we were to eliminate the supply of jobs by heavily fining those that hire illegals, (even Gordon Smith!!) it would seem we would soon learn if our people will indeed do those jobs, and take away the incentive for illegals to come here for work.

No work for illegals, no illegal immigration... seems pretty logical to me.

[Just_learning]

Immigration whatever... For a person to legally come here, the legal loopholes are astounding. I have two uncles who have tried to come to America, and here are their stories.

One of them tried for years, he is college educated, my parents who are well off signed up to be his sponsor and back him while he got on his feet here, not like he needed it. It took 7 years for him to get the okay. By then he didnt want to come here anymore and found a better job abroad.

The other uncle who is not college educated met his current wife while she was on business overseas. They began to see eachother frequently and decided to get married. She lives in Florida. They tried for a year to no avail. He signed up for a tourist visa to go to Disney world and he got that visa okayed in a matter of months. She took him to the courthouse and they are now married. He has his green card and will become a citizen soon enough.

Its hard for a person to become a naturalized citizen. And sadly, most immigrants who become citizens know more about this country then most who were born here. So I think before we judge others about how they are hurting society by being here illegaly we need to assess the meaning of America. My parents came here because they were poor, tired, and hungry and they made a huge success out of their lives. If we focused more on the good stories and not the bad we would be a lot better off.

[wishin]

FOREIGN AID. This is one aspect of the situation that I have not seen discussed here, or heard on talk radio.

It is a given that it is in the USA's best interest to provide foreign aid to countries for humanitarian; influence; and political stabilization reasons. You do not have to go back too many years to see that Mexico was a powder keg about to explode. You cannot have the kind of economic disparity that is obvious between two countries that share a common border without enormous pressure and huge problems.

I will submit that the money sent back to Mexico by workers in the USA has been our cheapest form of foreign aid, with the greatest on the ground impact that we have. 1998 Foreign Aid figures:
Mexico - 15,377,000 (can't buy much for 15 mill)
Columbia - 66,920,000 (drug wars are expensive!)
Israel - 3,000,000,000 (yup, that's 3 BILLION!)
Egypt - 2,116,000,000 (another "billion dollar buddy!")

Again, I will submit that we get away with this relatively tiny foreign aid package to Mexico due to the huge amount of aid sent to Mexican families by workers in the USA. Sure beats increased tax collections (with the rake off the top for administrative purposes), sent to the Mexican government as foreign aid (with the usual rake off the top for administrative purposes), and a tiny fraction making it to the people of Mexico. What would the cost be to the US taxpayer to increase foreign aid to the Billion dollar catagory for Mexico?

Does anyone not believe that it is vital to our interests to have a politically, and economically, stable neighbor to our south? How do we want to accomplish this?

wishin

[River Ranger]

I wish we would Stop most all foreign aid,work on our own problems here at home then focus on others.

RR.

[uhmw]

I am the grandchild of imigrants who arrived in this country at ellis island with two bags and and alot of hope. Their hard work produced a company with good paying jobs for hard working people a west point cadet and a school teacher. I know many modern imigrants who have this same drive and determination there work ethic amazes me. Low wage workers-No I think that means Hard workers who will go the extra mile and do what ever it takes to get the job done and actulaly take pride in this ethic. I myself am a product of imigrants as are most people in this countrey and have difficulties asuming I am some how special and more deserving than other familys who have found their way to my neighborhood because of circumstance. If the government wants to stop the exodus They need a berlin wall with consintina wire and armed guard towers with orders to shoot to kill-if the russians could do it Im sure we could too.. :depressed: or a program to let people cross freely with proper documentation. Rather than having US companys make this exodus in the other direction.

[reeldick]

It's too late.
We had our chance to stoop this years ago and didn't.

We better all learn to speak Spanish if we want to live here.

How could the US ever deport 11 to 16 million people? What do you do with their kids who were born here and are considered legal citizens?

[MetalHead]

People keep throwing out the imigration word here and that is wrong. They are not Imigrants they are Illeagal Aliens, Imigrants imigrate to this country, Illeagals cross the boarders and are in this country illeagaly. The INS should be at these rally's with buses check their papers, load them up and take them back to the boarder. My folks spend the winters in YUMA AZ every year and it is incredable the number of illeagals that cross everyday. This Country needs to secure its boarders, if they are here illeagaly send them back (yes the kids too) if you hire and illeagal fines and/or jail time (I know there isnt enough room in our jails now) there will be if we take all the illeagals out and ship them back home. I've heard the arguments that farmers will be put out of business because they cant afford to harvest their crops. This is BS too how many of these farmers are being subsidized by the goverment to grow these crops in the first place?

Imigrants are welcome, Illeagals are not.

I am Roy Dowell &lt;-- American and I approve this message

[freespool]

Here's a letter to the editor:


What "rights" are illegal aliens demanding in their marches? The right to enter and remain in our country illegally? The right to stay and work illegally?

One demonstrator said, "We've got to get back in touch with the civil rights movement, because that's what this is about" ("Immigrants aim to fill the streets of America," April 10).

Rubbish. Since when have criminals protesting enforcement of law been considered "civil rights"? This is not "immigration," and these are not "immigrants." This is an invasion, and they are invaders. They want preferential treatment over that accorded hundreds of thousands of legal immigrants we admit every year.

They say they "work hard" and want to follow the American dream. Fine. There's a way to do that. First, obey the law. Apply for immigration status.

If our gutless politicians are so intimidated by mobs of illegal aliens who demand nonexistent "rights" to trample our laws, let them put the illegal immigration issue to the vote of the American people. We'll be glad to hold their hands next time they get frightened when illegal aliens stage mass temper tantrums because they're not accorded preferential treatment under our laws.

[River Ranger]

Well said Freespool!

RR.

[Borrowit]

Free spool this is very well said... It is too bad that we can't all sign that and send it to our "leaders"

[foxer]

Freespool, well said

[uhmw]

What would you do if your children lived in squallar and a better life lay just accross the boarder its hard to criminalize these people who are seeking a better life for their family especially those who have put down roots in this countrey. are we gona round them up and load them on rail cars under armed guards with orders to shoot to kill -Cause thats how it has to be done they wont go peacfully, The germans demonstrated how this is done in 39. You could go to all the schools and round up all the children- but wait they were born here just like you-so are they now to be kicked out to???

[freespool]

I did not write that letter, it's from todays Oregonian, letters to the editor.
Just thought it was interesting.



salmon hugger

[skybuster]

This is hardly a holocaust UHMW and I think that several people would probably be offended to have it construed as such.

These people knowingly broke the law to come here. They have been living with the knowlegde that they are criminals and at some point they could be forced to go back to where ever they came from.

Most of these people have committed several different crimes while on our soil. Think of what would happen to you or I if we got caught trying to obtain a driver's license with a phony social security card and number, or if we falsified paperwork to DSHS for aid. That's right, you would probably face charges for forgery, fraud, and identity theft, and no doubt the book would be thrown at us.

But these people get away with all of it by claiming that they are simply doing the jobs that we won't. BS.

By the way, it isn't just Mexico. LOTS of ILLEGALS are pouring through Mexico and across the border from places like Honduras and Guatemala as well as other central american countries. It's only going to get worse.

[husker]

i agree this is not an immgration issue...it is an illegal alien issue. i wrote the same thing to katu and koin tv in my responses to there stories. this is being reported incorrectly

[drano100]

[quote]
I read recently that the GAO estimates it would cost us 225 Billion to round them up and send them back. This would be as wrong as the Billions we are wasting in Iraq.

so you really think it would cost $25,000 a person to send them home spin spin spin it will cost to much it cost us close to that every year just to let them stay,as has been pointed out the illegals know how to get fake SS# and good old gov. ted has made it easy to get a drivers license in this state just sign a paper saying you don.t have a SS#, so getting fake id to get a job is not a problem for them. Its all gets back to what they are doing is illegal, if you set the standard that its ok to break the law then heck let the fun began, rob,****, and pilage. Sea lions look out, what drug laws, DUI, pay taxes, hey if it's ok for them, why not everyone, just toss out all laws we don't need them

[fishpez]

Even though I'm Hispanic and I want to sympathies with the Hispanic community I can't. I too would like the 11 mil send back because that's the easiest thing to say. However, is more complicated than that. You first have to fix the system and all the loop holes before you start sending people back. (Don't hate the people, hate the system). US government says it guards its borders but we don't. Thousands of people cross the border every year, and I don't thing that the Mexican government are the only ones looking the other way ! Unless US is going start taking immigration seriously this is only going to get worst before it gets better!!

Fishpez!

[CMallardDrake]

People keep throwing out the imigration word here and that is wrong.

I know...I don't like to use the term "illegal immigrants" either but I did in my first post within this thread. Because those in authority in our country just looked the other way in the vast majority of cases when these millions of people for decades from other countries came into the USA...immigrants is what they feel they are.

When my grandparents came to America from Scandinavia, they did everything they had to do to be here "legally" and even after that...were not given the benefits that those who cross our borders under the cover of darkness get while breaking the law.

I believe my grandparents, if they could see all this now would also tend to call todays "huddled, hungry and poor" immigrants but maybe add to the description..."those working the system immigrants" and those making and enforcing immigration laws as worthless and cowardly. They would shake their head at both groups and use the following emotion icons...once they knew what they were.

......... :shocked:....... ........ ......... ....... ......... ......... ........

[uhmw]

I never used that term -but roundung up several million people(families w/children) who now have roots in this country and dont want to leave will appear to many around the world as a sad trail of tears(much like the plight of the american indian who belived the land belong to every one) - and yes where will you send them??? A massive deportation in-ternment would look simular to ones done in the past. surly they wont tell you where they came from??? they will say east-LA or south florida canada maybe. reservations ??? internment camps???prisons- will other countrys let them back???. human civility will prevail on this issue - Its the children I worry most about.