What is it?

osulogger · 03-29-2006, 01:36 PM

What animal does this paw belong to? As you can see, it's been skinned out, and it was missing it's head.

From the land of Big Sticks,

Osulogger

Bait O' Eggs · 03-29-2006, 01:43 PM

BIGFOOT

Hard to tell with no body size for reference, looks like a dog foot to me

Small Fry · 03-29-2006, 01:45 PM

I'd say some kind a dog. What ever it is don't look real healthy.

Super Fluke · 03-29-2006, 02:08 PM

Dog or bear, how big was it?

Bait O' Eggs · 03-29-2006, 02:26 PM

I assume it was dead

ajfishfinder · 03-29-2006, 02:29 PM

Some of you must not have a dog laying under your desk to look at. If that is a dog, it must have some massive legs!!! Look at the size of the bone and how fast it turns into a calf muscle. Then go have a look at your dogs foot. Give us some more clues??? Is that the skinned out tail next to the foot??? Maybe a black kangaroo???

Chesapeake · 03-29-2006, 02:35 PM

I wouldnt think bear, the pad looks wrong to me, but maybe a front paw. I would think dog or wolf but the 5th toe shouldnt be there for a dog. Maybe a siamese dog?

Given the skinning and head removal I would lean toward small odd footed bear.

Final answer: Small black bear

baltz526 · 03-29-2006, 02:41 PM

it has to be a wolfbear

Snakebite · 03-29-2006, 02:42 PM

Wolverine? That's about as close as I can get using an old Petersons guide...

saman · 03-29-2006, 02:46 PM

Ya but...a really fat wolfbear assuming that white stuff is fat and not decomposed muscle?

osulogger · 03-29-2006, 02:47 PM

I'll go back tomorrow and take a picture of whats left

There was a skinned out beaver next to it, and this was lying right next to it. I can't think that it was a bear, the body was rather small, almost coyote-like, but it has black feet! hmmmmm

From the land of Big Sticks,

Osulogger

ajfishfinder · 03-29-2006, 02:49 PM

The claws are way to small for a wolfbear or wolverine. I am thinking it just might be a London wearwolf in america???

Cornbread · 03-29-2006, 03:37 PM

A bear's pad below the toes is one solid pad. That pad is split into three segments. A dogs pad is solid with three little bumps. Also dog, fox, and wolves should only have four toes. The Mustelidae family animals have five toes to which the wolverine belongs. The wolverines pad is split like that and the leg muscle tone would denote a short animal. My vote goes to wolverine.

nobrownline · 03-29-2006, 03:39 PM

chubracabra!

saman · 03-29-2006, 03:49 PM

Okay well the beaver puts some scale to it...I would guess it as maybe a nutria (sp?)???

baltz526 · 03-29-2006, 03:49 PM

the only problem with it being a wolverine is the claws are missing, wolverine are diggers and have serious claws

Snakebite · 03-29-2006, 04:00 PM

Quote:

the only problem with it being a wolverine is the claws are missing, wolverine are diggers and have serious claws

I'd have to respectfully disagree. Badgers have huge digging claws, but the track diagrams in Petersons don't show very big claws on wolverine respectively...I guess we'll just have to wait for the answer

baltz526 · 03-29-2006, 04:21 PM

the claws on that foot are tiny, they look like a dog that has run for chuckers all season

Applegate · 03-29-2006, 04:25 PM

It's an Otter. Hind foot.

seadog · 03-29-2006, 04:39 PM

Applegate has got it I think!

Snakebite · 03-29-2006, 04:50 PM

Quote:

It's an Otter. Hind foot.

Could be, but it appears too elongated for an otter, and the center pad is way wrong!

osulogger · 03-29-2006, 05:10 PM

Applegate might actually have it though. It would make sense with it being with the beaver. But why would it be missing it's head?!? That's the part I don't get. Are you allowed to trap otters?!?

From the land of Big Sticks,

Osulogger

Snakebite · 03-29-2006, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Applegate might actually have it though. It would make sense with it being with the beaver. But why would it be missing it's head?!? That's the part I don't get. Are you allowed to trap otters?!?

From the land of Big Sticks,

Osulogger

<font color="blue"> </font> But why would it be missing it's head?!? <font color="blue"> </font>

HUH? now I'm really

Santiam338 · 03-29-2006, 05:50 PM

Why wouldn't you be allowed to trap otters??

They are a furbearer along with mink,beaver and so on..

That tail is what gives it away....I say otter also...

If you go back to look ,spread them toes apart...

Chesapeake · 03-29-2006, 05:57 PM

If it was an otter it would have a long tail that was thick atthe base and tapered evenly to the tip. The legs would be quite short compared to body length and the feet would be webbed.

It is legal to trap river otter. The sea otter are the protected ones.

If the thing next to the leg in the pic is the tail then Otter is probably it.

How about a full body pic?

Boy this brings back memories of trapping in Alaska.

Cornbread · 03-29-2006, 07:18 PM

Otter would make more sense than wolverine they are both of the mustelidae family so that would explain the five toes and split three pads in the middle of the paw. I didn't realize the other thing in the picture was attached to the animal. Being that thick it would make sense that it could be an otter tail. Also an otters back paw is enlongated quite a bit compared to their front paw.

As far as the head being gone a lot of time when you are trapping you case skin the body in the field up to the base of the skull and leave the head inside so you can do the detail skinning around the eyes, ears and mouth at home so you don't damage the pelt. It makes it lighter to carry home that way but you still can take time with the delicate parts of the pelt.

BrianMaguire · 03-29-2006, 09:30 PM

There is no scale to it. i would say it was a dog or wolf, The question is why would someone skin a dog and remove the head. It would help to know the size.

waterfowlin101 · 03-29-2006, 10:14 PM

Quote:

But why would it be missing it's head?!? That's the part I don't get.

If I trapped an otter I would not only skin the animal immediatly, but I would remove the head and bring the skull home to boil out.

tag-a-long · 03-30-2006, 05:56 AM

it may be that its easier to skin the head at home. If you have ever trapped enough lines, you would know its an all day adventure just runnning your lines.

Snakebite · 03-30-2006, 07:55 AM

So a little background is in order. Where and when was the photo taken? Why don't you have a picture of the whole carcass? If the head was gone it makes sense it was an otter, because the lower jaw has to be turned in when ODFW tags the pelt, not to mention the skinning out details mentioned above. What gives Logger?

osulogger · 03-30-2006, 01:21 PM

Well to answer everyone's question; yes it is an otter. I took one of my road builders out there today that used to trap and he confirmed, river otter.

To answer Snakebites questions, here is the background.

I found this carcass yesterday, along with a beaver carcass. I'm not giving you exact coordinates, but it was found in western Oregon, SW of Eugene. You can figure the rest out on your own. After seeing what everyone had suggested last night about the paw, my co-workers and I did some investigating of our own as well. Yes, Snakebite is correct in that you need to turn in the jaw to the state; hence why the head was cut off. One big key component though is, trapping season ended 15 days ago.... this sure looks fresh to me, how about you??? Furthermore, my road builder looked and it and has seen this elsewhere on our tree farm; it is some form of baiting method used. The ground was all tore up and there were fresh car tracks there before I got to the scene this morning, along with a massive amount of brush broken downhill of the carcass's, indicating that something was caught last night or early this morning.

So, that's what gives Snakebite. I'm not trying to hide anything, just trying to do a little CSI on my tree farm. All the more reason why I like gates and keep the public out!

From the land of Big Sticks,

Osulogger

ajfishfinder · 03-30-2006, 01:39 PM

I still think that first photo shows the tail of a kangaroo :grin:

:grin:

Cornbread · 03-30-2006, 02:35 PM

Otter's and beavers stink worse than a regular carcass. If somebody is making bait sets for coyotes or coons it would make sense to use these carcasses as bait. Did you find the trap at all? If you are doing CSI see if they were dumb enough to use a legal trap. In Oregon the trap has to be stamped with an address that the owner can be reached through. I don't think Oregon alows trap ID tags I think it must be stamped into the trap. If it is somebody who legally traps during season but is now poaching on your land you could get lucky and find out they used their normal legal traps. If Oregon is a trap ID tag state then look for a little copper tag on the trap ring or on the chain many guys roll them up with a pliers to make it hard for anti's to get a hold of their mailing address. Many folks use PO boxes as well so you may have to do more digging even if you do find an address. If you do find the trap post a picture of it and let us know what the size of the trap is (it is stamped into the pan) and we can probably get a better idea of what they were after based on the trap size.

Snakebite · 03-30-2006, 03:25 PM

CSI on! I wish I could help! Know any OSP Gamies over your way? They might be interested!

Ni! · 03-30-2006, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Otter's and beavers stink worse than a regular carcass. If somebody is making bait sets for coyotes or coons it would make sense to use these carcasses as bait. Did you find the trap at all? If you are doing CSI see if they were dumb enough to use a legal trap. In Oregon the trap has to be stamped with an address that the owner can be reached through. I don't think Oregon alows trap ID tags I think it must be stamped into the trap. If it is somebody who legally traps during season but is now poaching on your land you could get lucky and find out they used their normal legal traps. If Oregon is a trap ID tag state then look for a little copper tag on the trap ring or on the chain many guys roll them up with a pliers to make it hard for anti's to get a hold of their mailing address. Many folks use PO boxes as well so you may have to do more digging even if you do find an address. If you do find the trap post a picture of it and let us know what the size of the trap is (it is stamped into the pan) and we can probably get a better idea of what they were after based on the trap size.

If you find a trap, I wouldn't mess with it unless you're the landowner and they're there without permission. If you think there's something illegal going on call a game cop. They can check out the trap. It's legal to trap a number of species all year round, and exposed sight bait is OK provided it's far enough away from the trap.

Doing CSI-type stuff could get you in trouble if you're not careful how you do it.

Ni!

Santiam338 · 03-30-2006, 04:01 PM

0

Snakebite · 03-30-2006, 04:59 PM

Quote:

If you find a trap, I wouldn't mess with it unless you're the landowner and they're there without permission. If you think there's something illegal going on call a game cop. They can check out the trap. It's legal to trap a number of species all year round, and exposed sight bait is OK provided it's far enough away from the trap.

Doing CSI-type stuff could get you in trouble if you're not careful how you do it.

Ni!

I've pulled lots of traps, and on public land,that were suspect, and OSP thanked me. How's that for getting into trouble? I don't want to start a spitting match here, but there are specific trapping laws in Oregon, and I've seen lots of them broken. Hey, I don't have a problem with trapping, but I do have a problem with unethical and illegal trapping.

osulogger · 03-30-2006, 05:47 PM

I wasn't going to go anymore into it then what I did guys. I was just curious why the heck there were two carcasses lying on the side of one of our roads with one missing a head :smile: I'll be going back for the beaver skull in a about a month; it'll look good with all the other skulls that a person comes across in the brush.

Santiam, I can honestly tell you that they weren't there earlier in the week. I've been working on this road system for over a week now and they showed up yesterday

I'm not interested in busting someone for poaching, or whatever the heck they are doing. It's just rather uncomfortable to be working out there and knowing that something is going on around you that might not be completely "legal"??? Call me paranoid I guess :whazzup:
I guess the other thing that concerns me is if I did actually set the trap off while snooping around, am I at fault or are they at fault for trapping on what is technically private property???

Young Grasshoppa is eager to learn :tongue:

From the land of Big Sticks,

Osulogger

Snakebite · 03-30-2006, 06:44 PM

Quote:

I wasn't going to go anymore into it then what I did guys. I was just curious why the heck there were two carcasses lying on the side of one of our roads with one missing a head :smile: I'll be going back for the beaver skull in a about a month; it'll look good with all the other skulls that a person comes across in the brush.

Santiam, I can honestly tell you that they weren't there earlier in the week. I've been working on this road system for over a week now and they showed up yesterday

I'm not interested in busting someone for poaching, or whatever the heck they are doing. It's just rather uncomfortable to be working out there and knowing that something is going on around you that might not be completely "legal"??? Call me paranoid I guess :whazzup:
I guess the other thing that concerns me is if I did actually set the trap off while snooping around, am I at fault or are they at fault for trapping on what is technically private property???

Young Grasshoppa is eager to learn :tongue:

From the land of Big Sticks,

Osulogger

Don't be paranoid! If it smells bad, report it to OSP! I've gotten them several good cases just on my suspision of wrong doing. On the other hand, I've let a lot go due to my "thinking" that it wasn't worth it. I say, report it, let them sort it out!

Santiam338 · 03-30-2006, 07:53 PM

I have known a trapper or 2...Most have regular day jobs...It is not out of the ordinary for one to run his line,hang his catch and get to the skinning part in a day or 2....Then,throw the carcass out back and get around to hauling them off in week or so.....

Years ago I was cougar hunting above Oakridge...I was hunting with dogs when you could do that sort of thing...I didn't find any cougar that trip,but I did catch a couple nice bobs...

My wife was hunting with me and we stopped at the DQ for a hamburger...I must have had a spot of blood on my shirt,anyway , DQ called the cops on me..

I turned at Lowell and was cutting over to Jasper when I seen a Stater coming up fast behind me,and I mean FAST,lights,siren the whole works...I pulled off to let him by and I was shocked when he slid in behind me...

I was all in order and my cats properly tagged...I asked him why the hell did he chase me from Oakridge,I bet hitting 100 miles an hour at times....He told me that DQ was suspicious because there was no hunting season going on...I told the dumbass,and he was, that cougar,bobcat,coon,was all going on and there was even a late muzzleoader deer hunt...I also told him that hwy 58 was dangerous enough without him tearing up and down like a mainiac for no good reason...Wonder he didn't kill somebody...

BECAUSE DQ WAS SUSPICIOUS!!!

I wouldn't walk in a DQ if I was starving to death..

I was just saying there are lots of explanations, not just poaching....Without some kind of clear evidence,not much reason to dig deeper...

Ni! · 03-30-2006, 09:07 PM

Quote:

I've pulled lots of traps, and on public land,that were suspect, and OSP thanked me. How's that for getting into trouble? I don't want to start a spitting match here, but there are specific trapping laws in Oregon, and I've seen lots of them broken. Hey, I don't have a problem with trapping, but I do have a problem with unethical and illegal trapping.

I have a problem with illegal and unethical trapping too, but the trouble you would run into from a game cop is nothing compared to the trouble you could run into from a trapper who catches you pulling his traps. If you want to take the risk, that's up to you. But very few people know the trapping laws well enough to determine if a trap is placed legally or not. Best advice is to leave it alone and save yourself the potential trouble.

Ni!

gottafish · 03-30-2006, 09:59 PM

Quote:

I've pulled lots of traps, and on public land,that were suspect, and OSP thanked me. How's that for getting into trouble? I don't want to start a spitting match here, but there are specific trapping laws in Oregon, and I've seen lots of them broken. Hey, I don't have a problem with trapping, but I do have a problem with unethical and illegal trapping.

I have a problem with illegal and unethical trapping too, but the trouble you would run into from a game cop is nothing compared to the trouble you could run into from a trapper who catches you pulling his traps. If you want to take the risk, that's up to you. But very few people know the trapping laws well enough to determine if a trap is placed legally or not. Best advice is to leave it alone and save yourself the potential trouble.

Ni!

Well said Ni, I caught a guy pulling my beaver sets on a pond in Michigan once. he was going from set to set because he could follow my track in the snow. I confrounted him and he claimed he owened the land. LOL it was my uncles land and this joker was a friend of his. It ended in a fight. Lets just say I got my traps back and he got a ride to jail. I don't know about Oregon but the Michigan DNR would put a big black tie wrap around your nuts and give you a dull rusty knife to get it off. if you mess with a leagle set Trap.

Screamin Bulls · 03-31-2006, 01:41 AM

you should have taken it home and fried him up ,Matt ?

........ :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :tongue: