We ask an awful lot ....

Pilar · 03-27-2006, 06:30 AM

of our little boats.

This thread is about what it takes to make a boat salty. The boat by the way includes the fishers riding in it.

Ever stop to think about how everything on your boat has to be pretty much perfect before you can stop thinking about how hard it is working for you?

I think about this whenever the shoreline becomes a purple smudge on the horizon. Actually I think about it other times too. The TUNA! tournament has me wondering about all the boats and how prepared they may or may not be. For any of you new to this game make sure you team up with someone who has played before.

The boat I am most familiar with has been a challenge to prepare. Having done the offshore thing for a few years now has raised my expectations to pretty high levels. And so every time out, even to the river, I am listening for any miss or unusual noise. Every thing has got to work everytime.

There are three areas of concern IMHO

1) Is the boat in sound condition?

2) Is the equipment on the boat and the capabilities of the boat adequate for the job you are asking it to do?

3) Is the crew experienced enough and prepared enough for the voyage?

One - Is pretty obvious. Any boat has some issues. Even the new ones. So this all comes down to shaking it down and trying in every concievable way to find them out. And then to solve the problems proactively. Most of the guys I run with spend considerable time, effort and $$$ running less ambitious trips and shaking down the boat. Problems are noted and solved. You must figure these things out before they strand you at sea. There's lots of help here on this site and many experienced fishers, electronics guys and motorheads. If you can't figure something out ask for help and get it taken care of. The bottom line is that almost every scenario where a boat fails to the point of sinking .. no one thing sank the boat. It is almost always some little things that conspired and combined to make the boat unsafe.

Two - We have discussed this in the past in this forum at length. Many of you have made lists and asked good questions as well as shared your knowledge. This is available to any who are lately joining us. And we can go over it again. Chime in here any who are compelled to do so.

So I will just hit the high points. The boat must be able to carry the load you will put on it, people, fish and gear. It must run all day, sometimes for 18 hours straight without missing a stroke. It must handle rough water because if you have not been caught in the rough far from shore you will ... it is only a matter of time. You have to have adequate safety gear. You have to have fuel capacity for the float plan. You have to have redundancy for the important things like battery power, fuel, propulsion, communications and navigation. I made a short sound bite out of a huge topic. But these are the basics.

Three - The crew. Big subject here. But think about this one thing for a minute. If the guy running the boat becomes incapacitated, who will run the boat and get you home? Experience is important. You get that by going out and doing it. Every chance I get I take new guys and give them some experience. But I also try to take some fishers along that can spell me as the pilot. I often force 'Wheel time' on crew to give them some experience doing that. As crew you should be eager and inquisitive. Just remember if the pilot falls out somebodies gotta step up and do the job. Is that you? Could it be you? Think for a moment about all the things you take for granted. Navigation, radio skills, boat handling and piloting, fishing knowledge, docking and trailering. IMHO, job one for anyone riding is to learn and get qualified. Job one for anyone offering rides is to facilitate the learning.

There's alot more to this stuff than piling fish on the cleaning table. We do our share of that and some of us make it look easy. It is not easy. OK, rant over. Please share your thoughts and lets get some discussion going for the sake of the less experienced. I for one want to continue the blessed record we have as a group of 'No Dog Left Behind'.

KChookem · 03-27-2006, 07:24 AM

Thanks Pilar...

I find the past "Know Your Captain" posts educational for those consdering accepting an "open seat".

Those who expect to accept "open seat" offers could also make sure they have their state's "boat operator license", just in case they are given the opportunity to operate the boat. In Oregon it is very easy to obtain. Those who are really serious about becoming a valuable crew member, could take the basic USCG Auxiliary or the the US Power Squadron boating course.

Noyb72 · 03-27-2006, 08:12 AM

Outstanding.
In the Navy it takes up to a year for a sailor to get his dolphins. That means he's ready to start learning. I shutter to think how many people get wowed by a test ride from the dealer and put down money for a boat and now think they are ready for blue water ops. Pilar, I think your order is backwards in terms of presedence. The boat can be the most capable there is, and it can get lost due to poor seamanship. However, a capable crew can bring almost anything that floats and moves home. How many times have you walked onto a new boat and asked the owner where the fire extinguisher is only to here "I've got one somewhere." Usually when it's found, it hasn't been inspected in years, wich doesn't really matter because no one knows the proper employment anyway. We've all seen our share of scary things and yes, 99% of the time there will be no issue with those scary things, I just feel that not enough people take that 1% to heart.
FTC(SS) Ronald L Jones

Tacklebuster · 03-27-2006, 10:01 AM

Good thread.

Quote:

Ever stop to think about how everything on your boat has to be pretty much perfect before you can stop thinking about how hard it is working for you?

This is the main reason for my moniker and boat name, Almost Perfect . I am very anal about her and if something doesn't feel right, sound right, or function just right, I am all over it like a bad habit. I don't have a pedigree Salty Boat so my Seahawk has to be Almost Perfect for me to do the things I like in the ocean. I don't really think you will ever get a boat Perfect, there are far to many moving parts that can malfunction or fail at any given time in any given situation. The best you can be is Almost and Prepared

As far as the crew goes, I take my family out a lot and I love to take newbies. I do have at least one experienced first mate along just in case. I have a 12 year old daughter that I have been working with for years to become a future skipper. I started her out small, driving the boat, starting the motor, what the functions on the panel are and what they do. She has now moved up a few notches on the food chain. She has a working knowledge of my GPS, VHS and knows how to hail the Coast Guard, give a postition, and put in the magic numbers to get us back home from anywhere out of Newport. I give her a lot of driving time as well. She is my second hand man a lot of the times and she loves to get behind the wheel and take command.

Great post guys

DriftR · 03-27-2006, 11:01 AM

Pilar,
Great post. Not much to add here on my part. However, I am firm on gaining boat handling and piloting skills. As said above, take boating classes. Educate yourself on reading a compass and a chart. Know how to work your GPS as well as your VHF radio. Know how to plot a course line, how to take hand compass bearings. Start a personal home library of books on seamanship, boat handling, GPS and VHF operations, piloting for near and offshore. Look for books on navigation symbols and the terminology. I know I still keep copies of my operations manuals close by my helm just in case I have a senior moment. Get to know your exact position when out boating and how to plot your GPS lat and lon numbers on an actual chart every hour of your trip. An educated boater is a safe boater.

Pilar · 03-27-2006, 11:10 AM

Wondered if anyone would see the word 'Qualify' that had seen (and lived it) before. Long before and during the time we rode those boats, they were overhauled and sea-trialed to standards not equalled anywhere else. Sub-safe is exactly that. Each crewman is drilled, trained and trusted as if everyone's life depended on each individual. And it does.

The crew on a small boat is very important. I have to believe that most of the newly salt curious here will read and see some things that will make them wonder if they know enough to try this on a whim. We started this group with the idea that teamwork and sharing will save lives and enrich them.

As one of our most salty salts has said to me "There are no experts on the ocean".

So I think we will always be learning or I hope so. I will differ with you a little bit however. In my experience the fishers/pilots/crews that do not have the innate sense and curiousity to do small boats at sea either know it and fish elsewhere instead or get a harsh lesson and lose the urge. Let's hope they survive the harsh lesson.

You do make an interesting point. Starting your saltwater career by buying the new boat does not make you 'King of the Bay' or anything else. It makes a new saltwater fisher with a new boat. New does not excuse you from being prepared and checking everything twice.

Far more common from what I have seen is an ill prepared, mismatched for the intended use or poorly maintained small boat. As you so eloquently point out a good crew can make any boat work for a while.

What if you are on a boat with a crew you don't know much about and some wishful thinking is involved? About fuel consumption for instance? Or some problem ignored. I have actually seen or observed this scenario far out of sight of land. A simple thing when you think about it and not even McGyver can overcome an empty fuel tank, broken fuel gage or a dead starter

. Don't ask me about ignoring the failing starter and giving in to the urge to fish no matter what.

Almost Perfect .. you are there man.

Your attitude reflects a complete understanding of what we deal with when we cross the bar.

Does anyone else have any examples of getting their boat ready? Or training thier crew? I've been posting about my tribulations.

John Wells EM1(SS)

PhoebusGroup · 03-27-2006, 12:17 PM

Pilar,

The Jeanne-Marie is 12 years old and
she was hauled out a month ago to have
new transducers installed. I asked that
everything below the water line be thoroughly
checked. Several hoses needed replacement
and the seacock feeding the washdown pump
broke off when tested. That's a good thing
to find out about when you're out of the
water.

On board I have prepared job aids - 5" x 8"
cards with notes and diagrams - and I go over
them with all guests. This card lays out
the navigation rules and another details the
MayDay procedure. The third card has that
poem about pelicans. I added the pelican card
to lighten things up after the MayDay discussion.

The Pelican
by Dixon Lanire Merrith

A wonderful bird is the pelican.
His bill will hold more that his belican.
He can take in his beak,
Food enough for a week,
But I'm damned if I can see how the helican.

The cards are in a PDF format - perhaps I can
post them in the image gallery.

I have a 'no chatter while crossing the bar'
rule that I am pretty serious about. And
everyone operates the boat. I also mark up
the Englund laminated chart as we go, so
that people know where we are. I note the
time as we pass the bouys, but it's getting
people aware of where they are that's the
real point.

Kind regards,

Tacklebuster · 03-27-2006, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Almost Perfect .. you are there man. Your attitude reflects a complete understanding of what we deal with when we cross the bar

No John, your the man. The main reason I decided the hop the bar for the first time in Oregon waters in my jet sled on a sunny August afternoon in 2001 was because of your posts. I had many a posts on safety, how to read the water, bar crossing tips, equipment lists, etc. in my favorites and memorized everyone. I finally memorized all the technical advice needed and then had to get some salt behind my ears. Hard to believe that was 5 and a half years ago. Started off with limits of coho and then progressed from there.

Thank you John and the rest of youd original Dogs

D-tangle · 03-27-2006, 01:46 PM

Almost, I have a 12 year old son that is very interested in learning boatmanship. He is my fishin' buddy and has picked up a considerable mindful. We take newbies out fishing in the freshwater all the time, but the salt is still to come, maybe next year. Pilar seems to be careful and thoughtful in his approach, so I appreciate his thread and your thoughts here. We can't be perfect, but we can be prepared. Thanks.

Tacklebuster · 03-27-2006, 11:20 PM

Teach that youngster and you will reap major rewards for years to come. My daughter has punched in the numbers and skippered us from the pile to the bar on several occassions. She has run the green line from Tongue Point to the Hammond basin at least half a dozen times and has driven the boat up on the trailer more times than I care to think about. She will be a great skipper one day and I will be honered to crew for her. I run "drills" on about every trip asking her to give me our position, which way we are traveling, I even have her turn off the radio and then do a dry call for help. She will be getting plenty of wheel time this year Tuna! fishing. I can't wait

My day starts in my head the day before if that makes any sense. I am constantly checking the conditions, planning the trip, coming up with an alternate plan, and then going over every step. I remember my first trip out over the bar like it was yesterday. I had a inboard jet boat at the time and had been reading all kinds of cool stuff on this board. I finally mustard up the gump and decided to head out. My first trip was across the CR bar chasing Salmon. I had butterflies the whole drive up to Ilwaco and nearly puked at the ramp cause I had my self so worked up. It was by far the best day of my life and it was the begining of a hunger.

Hope you make it out this year and good for you for helping your son along the way. I get more enjoyment watching my 12 year old girl out in the ocean than I do with anything else.

Spindrifter · 03-28-2006, 09:42 AM

Great topic as usual John..
I've been out with Pilar on the Kismet and with Nalu on the Sea-J and both captains were very thorough going over the the locations of fuel switches, battery switches, and the basic function of the boat as well as it's quirks. All boats have their own unique set of quirks that may not be apparent at a glance.
Having helped do some of the maintenence on the Kismet, it gave me a real close view of where wiring is routed and the layout of other key items in case there is a problem.
Also John gave the helm over to me for part of the day so I'd get used to running the boat in swells and maintain a course(not as easy as it would seem) and to familarize me with the navigation equipment.
So I guess I'm saying don't forget to run over these things with your crew and maybe give someone a chance to actually run your boat for a bit.....could just save a life

Smoked Salmon · 07-14-2009, 04:53 PM

ttt.

Let's help each other out this year to make it another safe one out on the deep blue.

-Bill

Baxter · 07-14-2009, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pilar

...Don't ask me about ignoring the failing starter and giving in to the urge to fish no matter what...

Interesting to me this old quote from Pilar, as I faced this exact scenario at Hammond this Sunday and was sorely tempted to fish but put the boat back on the trailer instead. Now I am waiting for cross-country delivery of an apparently exceptionally rare and valuable solenoid which is, I suppose, stored at the bottom of a stack of pallets next to the Ark of the Covenant. That should learn me to buy an Austrian motor!

Good thread, by the way.

34Baidarka · 07-14-2009, 08:03 PM

Can't agree more...all points well taken and a good refresher..
Before the lines come of I always do a safety talk...
similar to the one you get on a plane...
Life vests are here...put one on now.
Radio directions and radio check..
I pull the deck plates and explain the engines / bildges and batteries.etc...
basic...this goes to that and how you do x if we need to.
Next comes moving around the boat what to and not to do....
I had a guy jump off the fly bridge once onto the back deck when we had a take down...I mean....over the rail and down, lol.
etc...responsibilities for launch...for fuel dock..for underway and docking.
Those assignments are given for the whole trip...
Once all that is done...Go time..and they soon realize I ain't their *****

Spindrifter · 07-14-2009, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baxter

which is, I suppose, stored at the bottom of a stack of pallets next to the Ark of the Covenant.

That's funny right there

Bluefinn · 07-15-2009, 05:11 AM

Excellent post John.