Had enough of out of towners!!!!!!!!!!!

[fishhead5]

Ive had it. I knew I should have stayed home today, but there were going to be 5 of us down there fishing in the hole so we would have it to ourselves so I went any way. Things were going pretty good until we got some fish. Then here come some guy in light green chest waders and a light green vest. There wasnt any room for him. I asked him not to go down there because he would scare the fish with the light clothing he had on. I was polite about it. He asked me what was different about it. We all had camo on or dark green. lot of difference. Well in a smart aleck tone he said it didnt make any difference any way. I lost it I told him I was sick of the inconsiderete out of towners that have come down and ruined our river!!! Garbage all over, people stacked shoulder to shoulder casting huge rigging and jerking all the time. I told him to go back home and stay there. He wanted to know if I was ready to make him. Not a problem dropped my stuff and asked him how he wanted to proceed. He turned and started to walk down and fish. The other local people told him he wasnt welcome there. Are we wrong? I grew up on this river, I have fished it for 30 years. Up until recently there wasnt anyone but us locals that fished it. We didnt have any problems. I am more that willing to tell someone how to catch a fish if they are willing to learn. I get so tierd of hearing "look its in the mouth" Well DUH!!! if you use the right things,and wait for them to bite, guess what youll hook them in the mouth!!!
I had to leave after the dip**** showed up, and on the way out another freind of mine was walking out. He said he had to give up he just got crowded out, he couldnt figure out why people thought that they had to stand on top of the fish to get them to bite. Ill get off my high horse. Dont know what else to say. It just really ticks me off that I cant go fish the river that I grew up on because there are 150 out of towners crowding out us locals.

[FC]

Not that i wanna come and fish, (sounds to crowded) but what river are you speaking of?

I completely uinderstand your frustration at this scissorbill or doughball intruding into a spot where only one or two people can fish. It's what I call the "Costco" mentality. Just go to Costco sometime during the busy hours and you'll undestand what I mean. I live in Hillsboro so most of my fishing is done on the north coast and so I guess I could be considered an "out of towner" too but I refuse to fish in crowded holes. The constant tangling of lines and if you move to fight a fish then you are aced out of your spot, it's just not worth it.

I understand your feelings completely Fishheads. It's really unfortunate that there are so many fishers for a finite number of fish and water. But that's the reality and we must deal with it the best we can. I would suggest a nicer toned approach in explaining the situation to the unaware or rude would likely have better results than an in your face or get out of here 'tude (not that you did; I don't know). One thing I will take exception to is the mentality that if someone lives nearer to a river and fished it longer they somehow deserve priority privilage. That's both unethical and illegal behavior if it's harrassed on new people. God and nature put the rivers here for all. And you were lucky to get to fish it more than most others for a long time. For "locals" to convey they have "more right to a river" just because they live closer and have fortunately got to fish it more makes about the same sense as "since the guys living nearer to the river have gotten to fish it way more than the rest of us, it's about time they step aside and let us have it to ourselves for awhile". Neither is correct! More communication about proper etiquette is the best way to deal with the crowding. Or move to AK or B.C. - RT

[This message has been edited by RT (edited 09-02-2000).]

[First Bite]

fh5
I too am curious what river you are talking about. I fish the Wilson for Fall Chinook and years ago I found a beautiful drift that produces fish. Five years ago when I would fish it on a weekday, I had the place to myself and whoever was fishing with me. Not the case any more. Word of mouth has spread and now there are car loads of people there everyday of the week. To make things worse, there are people who get in their drift boat and park it across the other side of the river and fish. All the bank fisher people on the other side are casting right to their feet. Tangled lines became the norm. The first time they did this, every four letter word was exchanged and then some. It gets so bad at times that I leave whether I'm into fish or not. To me it's not worth it. Unfortunately, that is going to be the case for most accesible areas in our Northwest rivers. We just have to get used to it.

I have to drive over the coast range to fish the Tillamook rivers, does that make me an "out of towner"? If someone lives in Tillamook and drives to the Clackamas or Willamette, is he an out of towner? I simply cannot tolerate that kind of attitude. Some people are inconsiderate regardless of where they live. We all need to realize this and once we do, it will make for a much better time on the river.

Mark

[Steelheader69]

fishead5, I can whole heartedly understand where you're coming from. But I can't agree with your approach to the situation at all. I was born and raised in Tacoma, WA and am a "local" on the Puyallup River. My parents have had property for years on the Wynoochee River in Montesano, WA which I've come to call my "home away from home local river". Then my grandparents had property on the pacific just a couple hour drive to the Hoh so I grew up fishing there alot too. I consider all three very dear to me and I fish them all as much as I can depending on distance from my house and open seasons. But, no matter what, I don't claim "ownership" of a river due to my "years of service" on it. I've put the most time on the Puyallup, almost all of my 30 years. An even 25 years on the Hoh and Nooch, but not as frequent due to distance, especially the Hoh which is over 3 hours from my house. I love all three, but I have no ownership of them. Does fishing a river more then someone else make it mine? No. It just has a bit more sentiment to me then others. The only way you own a slot is if you ACTUALLY own it (I know a friend who actually owns the riverbottom rights to a good 300 yard stretch on the Nooch. You were correct in advising him on proper procedures, but to have a "get in his face" approach will only make a confrontation that nobody really wins. As RT had said, overcrowding is everywhere and too many fisherpeople for so little fishing. It's not going to change. The best thing to do is grin and bear it, as hard as that can be sometimes (I've had many a times with my temper that I almost blow it with someone who's rude on a river). I've found that with the onslaught of info you can get on the internet now, you're gonna get a drove of "wanna be" fisherpeople who think they know everything because they've read all about it. It's really scary to see someone walk up to a slot wearing brand new clothing/waders with a brand new rod/reel (how many of you out there break in your waders and dirty up rod/reel before fishing season so you don't look like a newbie? I know I surely do, I hate the whole persona that comes with too much new gear) I've had whole slots ruined due to someone running through a hole with a boat and spooking the fish, usually in a boat that's so new looking that you could swear there's a pricetag hanging off the anchor. The best thing to do is ignore them the best you can (no matter how hard that may be) and fish. That's why I love floating so much, if I run into someone I can't stand, I pull up anchor and move on. I have seen many polite and courteous fisherpeople out there. As they say, one bad apple spoils the bunch. Lately you get a bushel or two that spoil the whole day. All I can say is to be the best sportsperson you can be and take the high road. I do believe in the expression "What comes around goes around". You express negativity, you get it back two fold. I try to go for the positive. It takes all I can to do it, but I've found that a confrontation never works out in a positive. Well, I'll quit rambling, just my .02

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You haven't lived til you've rowed a cataraft. Friends don't let friends run Outcasts.

[steelyhornhntr]

Fishhead5, I will agree with you about someone intruding on "your spot", however it is only "your" spot if you own the dirt he's standing on or you are policing it for another land owner!!! I'm sick and tired of people staking claim to public ground!! I'll tell you this, I wouldn't have joined a crowded situation as you described it but if someone tells me that I can't fish there because you were there first I will tell you were to go!! If you would want to take it further than I've always been very eager to settle it right there, and then we will really see he owns the river!!Neither of us!! I've always tried to be very considerate of others whether I'm hunting or fishing, but I've ran into afew A**holes over the years that think they own the complete stretch of a 125yd fish run!!THese are the very idiots that I'm very eager too teach them alittle lesson on proper river behavior!!As more and more people join the very things we love to do things are going to get crowded, I guess we'll have to learn how to deal with it or just get out of the game...

[fishhunter]

I feel your pain, however always remember the early bird gets the worm. I just recently got into driftboat fishing. I learned how to row and fish from a drifty on the Wilson, imagine what I heard from the bankie and drifties. Thank God I'm a large fellow or I may never of made it out of the take out areas. It's tough to learn and even tougher when dealing with a Horses @$$. I will be slamming the Wilson here in a couple months and I will be ready to rumble. Just goes with fishing I guess, I really not to concerned now that I got the whole rowing deal under control. For you Bankies out there I don't fish where you do but remember it's touhger than it looks, exspecially when the boats are piled up and the currrent is ripping. I learned by fishing with a guide named Marty on the Wilson, (Who was very cool) sorry can't remember the last name but he taught me alot about watching out for the other guy. Just remember to be nice. As the big Lawbowski would say, "Just Take it easy Man" and fishhead, you better just find a new spot dude, it happens...Same deal with Elk hunting word gets out.....

[Mrdorkfish]

fishhead5......I'm not sure what river you are speaking of but at this time of the year from the bank near Portland or at the coast there are not even enough fish to be fighting over yet! Have you ever fished at the deadline of ThreeRivers? 30 guys...same drift...talking loud...Kerplunking the same hole....Fish are gonna be caught no matter what the fashion statement is for the day if you know what you are doing! And let me remind you that these "newbies" are paying the same to fish that you are even if you have fished there all your life and contribute to the same fund that makes it possible for you to catch these fish, Also if you make it a positive experience for them they might stay interested and be the positive voice that sport fisherman need to keep us catching fish. Try and be a little nicer please !


Mrdorkfish

[This message has been edited by Mrdorkfish (edited 09-02-2000).]

[dpizza]

Fishhead5,

I've been waiting to see were everyone was going to go with your "post".

You are quite the guy !!!!!

Post's like this belong on the forum.

[davpot]

Interesting Post!! All I can say is: "Hey everybody, why can't we just get along? (Rodney King after being hit on the head!!) this crowding business is nothing new. Its been going on for YEARS! Eventually, this place will be just like Europe, and we REALLY MUST LEARN ETTIQUITE(SP?) Personally, I simply will not fish on the Holidays; at least, not in the BIG POPULAR holes. As we all know, Fishing is IMPORTANT, but the RATRACE FOR SALMON IN THE FALL is NOT!!!
(just my .02$!!
Dave (staying at home this Holiday!)

[MPT]

I fish mainly for the feeling of relaxation and solitude. I avoid crowds, hoglines, etc. My survival doesn't rely on eating salmon! That's why I prefer the open ocean to catch my fish. I also love to fish for sturgeon and bass. Remember-"THEY'RE ONLY FISH!"

[Pete]

25 years ago I fished the Deschutes for days at a time without seeing another person on the river. It used to upset me to see the numbers of people increasing. I found it really difficult to share the river. A guide friend changed my attitude. Certainly it isn't as much fun to share the river as it is to have it to oneself, but it is better to have more people loving a river and its fish when resource demands threaten. Instead of creating animosity, it really serves everyone to encourage everyone to have a good time. If out of towners leave garbage behind its because they don't respect a place. If someone is treated with consideration they're more likely to develop respect and love for a river that may be helpful when logging or roadbuilding or farming or residential construction or who knows what threaten things in a big way.

[White Willie]

FISHEAD5
Anytime you want to fish on any river I live by you can fish by me and I wont yell or scream at you because your" out of town." we are running out of areas to fish at an alarming rate so it concentrates us in all the rivers that produce good numbers of fish. dont yell at me just show me what to do.

[fishhead5]

Thanks for all the imput everyone. Some of you have missed the point. I was very polite when I asked him not to go down to the hole because of his clothing. I have asked 4 or 5 others and they either took off the light clothing or covered it up, came down and fished the hole without a problem. I wish I could get a picture on here to show you what it looks like. Steelheader69 put 50 people on the wilkie hole on the wynoochee, would you still fish it?
I kind of grouped everyone together, I have fished along with people from out of town and walked out with them when it got too bad and they said that they wont be back. But if the locals were the only ones fishing it there would only be 25 people on the whole river instead of every hole. I guess the point I was trying to make is why should I have to give up fishing, most of my fishing partners wont go out there because of the crowds, its not really even the crowds its the attuide of everyone. I live in a small town and have a small town attuide. If there is a little kid on the bank Ill let him reel a fish in, even if the fishing is slow. He was asleep on the bank with the 4# jacks head right under his chin like it was a teddy bear. If someone asks me what Im doing different and why Im hooking fish Ill give him a hand full of eggs to use and stand beside him and tell him when he is getting a bite so he will hook a fish. thanks again for all the comments. I guess I should have told you this river is a small river, Running at 230 f\s

PS Steelheaderman, eggs went to $7 a pound here.

[This message has been edited by fishhead5 (edited 09-04-2000).]

[This message has been edited by fishhead5 (edited 09-04-2000).]

[Phish_on]

Now I remember why I stick to trout fishing. Don't worry about me, I won't go near a hole packed with brain-dead rednecks in camo gear. Scary !

Hey I own the Deschutes ! From Lava Lake to Sherars Falls, yep the whole thing. So go home!

[THE REEL HEY_YALL]

Fishheads, I somewhat agree with some of the points you made in your post. Heck yeah, overcrowding sucks, so I give you a high-five for telling the numbnut not to go down there. The spooking of the fish with non-camo gear is something that guy will have to learn from experience of fishing there, but I am a firm believer = I got here first so move along. I run into that problem alot when the kings run on the cowlitz at the barrier dam. I am always the first person there, and that's after driving an hour to get there. What ****** me off is when people show up at 8, 9, 10 or so on and try to squeeze into spots where us fellas were there to make the sacrifice to be there at sunrise (well before). Maybe if you reminded the guy that you were there first and there is only adequate amount of space, then tell him you will be happy to "escort" him away from the hole when he cocks the tude especially if others express their concern over the adequate amount of space. Overcrowding, most definitely, has become a major issue, but those people that I factor in as the "overcrowders" need to realize that the early bird catches the worm.

roll tide

[Osprey]

At one time we were all newbies...attitude is everything some people just don't take suggestions very well....and BTW: I do own the Nisqually..all of it

------------------
Row quietly and fish a Cataraft !!-------<'))>><

Hmmm.....well let's see I guess the only stream that I can own is Rock Creek out here in Washington County. It's polluted and has no fish to speak of BUT STAY THE HELL OFF OF IT!!! IT'S MINE!!!

[Katchun Release]

Well, now, gang, where would we be if the Indians had taken this view of the Lewis and Clark party?

Well, they'd have bumped
'em off and there would be no white-eyes and lots of fish....

Gosh! I guess I forgot what point I was trying to make! That sounds pretty good to me.

And it's the Idaho's Salmon River that I own. Getting to be less and less valuable real estate as the fisheries continue to decline, but it's MINE!!!!!!

Katchun

[Fishen Fool]

Hey jerkhead5, don't you know that some holes are traditionly bank holes? If you have a sled can't you go where the bankies can't go?

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tight lines------<*))>>< fishen fool

[Mrdorkfish]

Fishhead5......Are you serious? Not only did you threaten bodily harm to a person because of what they were wearing you took a sled up a small river and anchored in a hole that was sought out by mostly bankies? Have you talked about your actions with the other fishheads? ya know...1-2-3-and 4? Do they also have the same behavioral fishing problems that you have? What i think is that you need to put on your camo gear......go to the nearest woody area and take a long walk .....deep into the forest and think about what you are saying....try to blend in a bit...stay there until about ......lets say OCTOBER, and then change in to your Deer outfit....Nuff said ! I am really sorry if anyone is offended by what i just said but i can't believe that anyone would go to such an extreme to come to blows over fish.

Have a nice day... =0)

Mrdorkfish

[fishhead5]

After reading everyones responses, I came up with one conculsion. Most of you were right. I dont own the river and have no right what so ever to tell anyone anything. But I thought that works both ways doesnt it? I put my sled in at 4 in the morning and ran up by flashlight and achored out in the river. But when people started showing up they were ******** at me. They couldnt belive with so many people on a small river I would bring a boat and screw up the hole for the rest of them. So I told them what some of you guys said, "you dont own the river". "What gives you the right to tell me what to do"? I have every right to fish the way I want as long as its legal. I buy my license, I pay just like everyone else. I got called a lot of names, some one said they were going to go find my trailer and flaten the tires ( I had parked it at a friends house and had him bring me down) I cant for the life of me figure out why people got so upset

[fishhead5]

After reading everyones responses, I came up with one conculsion. Most of you were right. I dont own the river and have no right what so ever to tell anyone anything. But I thought that works both ways doesnt it? I put my sled in at 4 in the morning and ran up by flashlight and achored out in the river. But when people started showing up they were ******** at me. They couldnt belive with so many people on a small river I would bring a boat and screw up the hole for the rest of them. So I told them what some of you guys said, "you dont own the river". "What gives you the right to tell me what to do"? I have every right to fish the way I want as long as its legal. I buy my license, I pay just like everyone else. I got called a lot of names, some one said they were going to go find my trailer and flaten the tires ( I had parked it at a friends house and had him bring me down) I cant for the life of me figure out why people got so upset

[fishhead5]

After reading everyones responses, I came up with one conculsion. Most of you were right. I dont own the river and have no right what so ever to tell anyone anything. But I thought that works both ways doesnt it? I put my sled in at 4 in the morning and ran up by flashlight and achored out in the river. But when people started showing up they were ******** at me. They couldnt belive with so many people on a small river I would bring a boat and screw up the hole for the rest of them. So I told them what some of you guys said, "you dont own the river". "What gives you the right to tell me what to do"? I have every right to fish the way I want as long as its legal. I buy my license, I pay just like everyone else. I got called a lot of names, some one said they were going to go find my trailer and flaten the tires ( I had parked it at a friends house and had him bring me down) I cant for the life of me figure out why people got so upset

[fishhead5]

No I didnt take my sled up the river, just trying to make a point. I wouldnt do it because it would screw up the fishing. (The point I was trying to make to the other person). Just because you have the right to do something doesnt make it right, if you are going to screw it up for everyone else. But you guys need to make up your mind. Either we all have the right to do as we want no matter how it affects anyone else, or we need to look at the situation and see how we are going to affect someone else and act accordingly, which the person saturday didnt give a rip about anyone but himself.
Met a nice gentelman from out of town this morning, had a good time visiting and fishing with him. Lost one fish

[This message has been edited by fishhead5 (edited 09-07-2000).]