Ethical Hunter post

[waterfowlin101]

Ok....here's the deal.

In a recent post EH went out on a limb and askled a question and brought up some theories he probably knew he was gonna take a little heat for.....he made HIS decision and went ahead with it any way.

There were some thoughful responses if you were able to sift through the .

MY POINT:

If you haven't figured it out yet, you obviously are a slow learner. People have different opinions on hunting and hunting related issues. When it comes to this forum I think we all need to be reminded a time or two to:

DEBATE THE ISSUE AND NOT THE PERSON


Debates quickly digress into nonsense and flame throwing when the above statement is not followed.

I can't believe some people get there kicks by making (or attempting to make a person) feel bad. We are all adults here...and although you may not agree with everything (gosh, I sure don't) or even anything this guy says.....does that give you the right to ridicule his post and turn it into an attack vehicle.

I have had friends look at this forum and not want to join/or speak up because some of the first threads they saw were ones like these.

I've argued a bit with EH via pm and really, he ain't that bad of a guy....and judgeing from the way he comes accross on the board, he wasn't born yeaterday either. Cut a guy some slack....nobody deserves this kind of treatment.









What good is your opinion if it is never challenged....actually, a challenge is a good time to learn how to strengthen your opinion.



Jon

[Clamman]

Nicely put and well said.

Glad to see someone stick their neck out for someone else posting an opinion.


Clam

[Rank Amateur]

That's a good reminder Jon, I know I live on the right side of the ethical fence and thus I'm probably painted a ethics cop here on the forum. That's ok, I have tough skin and EH must have rhino hide, I don't agree with his tactics sometimes either. There is a difference between discussing ethics of a certain subject and poking somebody right in the ribs, yet this is a forum, a place to discuss issues and that includes ethics.

What is more troubling to me is the undercurrent on this forum to shame people who have ethics or who bring them up, the Bobcat thread recently that Skein jumped on and made a mistake is a prime example. He made a mistake and owed up to it, yet there were comments about the ethics cops being quick to react. What's up with that? Are having ethics a bad thing?

[Troutinator]

It's bothersome that a lot of people who wrap themselves in the flag, call themselves patriots and style themselves after our forefathers forget that the one thing this countries founders valued more than any other was the freedom to express opinions, debate them and not get your panties in a wad because someone doesn't think the same way you do.

"I may not agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to speak your mind"

Try to honor those who have gone before us so that we have the right to disagree with each other in an open and productive manner.

[Boatdog]

In a recent post EH went out on a limb and askled a question and brought up some theories he probably knew he was gonna take a little heat for.....he made HIS decision and went ahead with it any way.

Again and again and again and again and again...

I have a hard time understanding why the majority of the posts are so, umm... polarized, and for no reason than to incite people on purpose and cause division among the ranks.

I don't think the 'returned fire' is all undeserved. Many hunters have been deemed unethical by the posts, many times.

So my bottom line is "don't judge others in your post and in return you won't be judged".

[gottafish]

Good post Jon. And your dead right

[skein]

Well, since it was my post that got him all fired up, I'm going to take the stand that he blustered up and got himself in my face about it. Kinda reminded me of Johnny Cochran.

He didn't ask the question from the aspect of wanting to learn, but rather from a "how do you know so much" attitude.

I will share everything I know with anyone who asks. But I'm under no obligation to protect the backside of anyone who continually sticks a "kick me" sign on himself.

I'll stand by both my posts; the one where I stated cougars take any available target, and the one where I chuckled at his questioning.

Skein

[ehunter]

Personaly guys I think it is all political non sense. If you take a postion expect to be have eggs thrown at it. I think we are mature enough to know that we are not going to agree with every one but if you want to be a devils advocate then expect the eggs to be tossed.

I as a hunter I am sensitive to certain issues because I think any one who has spent time hunting in Oregon knows that there is a cougar problem. The deer numbers are down.

There has been a cat sighted around the Rainier high school twice in the last week. Last couple of years we heard about cat sightings in Southern Oregon now they are being seen in NW Oregon. Our deer herds are already in trouble. It does not matter to me if a deer was healthy or sick the fact of the matter we have appear to have a growing problem of cats. I am a weirdo I guess because I care more for deer and elk than cats. Plus I am selfish because I want to hunt those same animals.

[Blue Tip Spinner]

Again and again and again and again and again...

I have a hard time understanding why the majority of the posts are so, umm... polarized, and for no reason than to incite people on purpose and cause division among the ranks.

I don't think the 'returned fire' is all undeserved. Many hunters have been deemed unethical by the posts, many times.

So my bottom line is "don't judge others in your post and in return you won't be judged".

why should any of us let him call us "poachers" if we don't agree with the "ethical" way he thinks? he gets what he deserves and i will continue to let him have it if he does it in the future. i think it is very simple.

i wonder if he goes to the Angler's Chapel and tries to push him religious beliefs on other people? he tries to do it here (hunting ethics ), so wouldn't you think he does it everywhere?

[baltz526]

here is my thought, and recomendation, to post a defend the poor cougar topic on a hunting site. is like defending feral domestic cats on the national audubon society web site. it is going to get ugly. please go give it a try.

[Limbhanger]

I can totally see Waterfowlin 101's point. There are threads that do get personal and they are a turn off.
However, Ethical Hunter does come across as the devils advocate in almost every situation. Most everyone here is fully aware and educated of the Deer population issues, the predator problems etc. The bottom line is that Ethical Hunter is not respected by his peers because he is reading between the lines and trying to force his thoughts and opinions in a combative way. It is easy to see how his posts and responses get under peoples skin. Simple wording can mean the difference between sounding offensive and being a respected contributor.

[wife&3kids]

why should any of us let him call us "poachers" if we don't agree with the "ethical" way he thinks? he gets what he deserves and i will continue to let him have it if he does it in the future. i think it is very simple.

i wonder if he goes to the Angler's Chapel and tries to push him religious beliefs on other people? he tries to do it here (hunting ethics ), so wouldn't you think he does it everywhere?

Blue Tip - anyone who tries to push their religious beliefs on another is wasting their time.. I am a believer and I will share the gospel with anyone who wants to listen, but Jesus himself was pretty clear on this issue when he said "Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces".
I am curious though as to who and when did anyone here ever try to push their religious beliefs on you? The way you stated it was


" I wonder if he goes to the Angler's Chapel and tries to push him religious beliefs on other people? he tries to do it here (hunting ethics ), so wouldn't you think he does it everywhere?"

Can you explain what you meant?

Scott

[MarlinMark]

The only way to control something like this is to not feed on it.......Don't Feed The Trolls! They go away if they aren't getting the responses that they desire.

Mark

[Bait O' Eggs]

Jon
Nice of you to try and be the peacemaker I agree with most of what you have to say, but I think when you start with this premise

We are all adults here...

you will get led astray before the first bend in the road.

And in parting from this thread I only have the following to say:


If I changed my moniker to "Jesus Christ" would I be correct in everything I said because of my moniker????

[rimrock]

Really nice post Jon you certainly are a very respectable guy.

IMO it is of little value to have people sometimes go on for pages with little more than one personal insult after another. It is a big turnoff to many people even wanting to be a part of this board. And I do agree with Limbhanger as well we each have a responsibility to post in a manner that does not intend to stir the pot or push thoughts and opinions in a combative way.

The only person we can control in this world is ourselves so I would respectfully ask for all of us to discuss with passion but without the pointless personal insult.

[Blue Tip Spinner]

" I wonder if he goes to the Angler's Chapel and tries to push him religious beliefs on other people? he tries to do it here (hunting ethics ), so wouldn't you think he does it everywhere?"

i was using that as an analogy. if someone pushes his hunting beliefs on all of us, i wonder if he does it to everyone in other forums and in other people in his life. that is what i meant by my statement.


now back to the thread...

[Lucky one]

You have several choices with EH, get upset and flame him, agree with him, ignore him, or laugh at him. I decided to stop ignoring and laugh. Not because he is "wrong", but because he really knows how to stir the pot.

[Amahnee]

That's a good reminder Jon, I know I live on the right side of the ethical fence and thus I'm probably painted a ethics cop here on the forum. That's ok, I have tough skin and EH must have rhino hide, I don't agree with his tactics sometimes either. There is a difference between discussing ethics of a certain subject and poking somebody right in the ribs, yet this is a forum, a place to discuss issues and that includes ethics.

What is more troubling to me is the undercurrent on this forum to shame people who have ethics or who bring them up, the Bobcat thread recently that Skein jumped on and made a mistake is a prime example. He made a mistake and owed up to it, yet there were comments about the ethics cops being quick to react. What's up with that? Are having ethics a bad thing?

I'll share my opinion. I don't think Skein made a mistake. I think he responded as he saw fit. He was only incorrect in location. That simple. It seemed to me and this is only my opinion, that he wanted to remove the heat he was taking by responding the way he did. I might be wrong, I might not?

I have shared my opinion before and taken heat. I felt like I had to fight for my life a couple weeks ago on the fishing board because of my beliefs. I went away for awhile and came back. To me it seems like everytime I respond to a thread the thread dies. Do I have a bad internet smell? Do I annoy you guy's? Is it because you do not know me? Are my opinions so different that it alienates me? Maybe I take things to personal?

These boards are for sharing opinions. Differing opinions are what make this ever changing hate filled world a better place. Seems to me as times change so do people and it's not for the better.

Many times I see members make a post only to delete it and apologize for sharing there opinion on a subject because they got 70 PM's. Why? They have a right to their opinion.

Simple wording can mean the difference between sounding offensive and being a respected contributor.

How we as readers interpret those words makes a difference also.

[Limbhanger]

Well, maybe the threads die because after a response like that there is not much more left to say

[baltz526]

the finisher, sounds like a good name to me.

[thehunt]

I'd agree with you if it was anyone but EH. Sorry but he stirs the pot with ridiculous comments all the time and I think everyone is pretty much sick of it.

[ehunter]

Amahnee your not alone either my timing or my message is bad I end a lot of post. So I am being polite and did not want you to be the last one I have broad shoulders and a good pack board they can stack the end on me and give you a break :grin:

[gottafish]

[quoteI see members make a post only to delete it and apologize for sharing there opinion on a subject because they got 70 PM's. Why? They have a right to their opinion.

[quote]
Yes that was me, I have noticed a trend around here, I think its because hunting seasons over and a lot of guy's Myself included are sick of the odfw managment practice's. That said This is Ifish. Nothing more and nothing less Opinions are just that. and sometimes We need to vent. These not a guy on this board I wouldn't share hunting camp with. ethical hunter included!!! just because we disagree on certin issues means nothing if it did id have been divorced a long time ago. Cheers Rich

[waterfowlin101]

I'd agree with you if it was anyone but EH. Sorry but he stirs the pot with ridiculous comments all the time and I think everyone is pretty much sick of it.

Evan...l am not trying to change your mind, but try and look at it from this perspective.

Debates are way cool. When I was growing up in fact thats what I wanted to be....a professional debater!!

But soon I realized that what I thought was debating was really not. I took part in the attacking of persons rather than the attacking of ideas.

If we skip out on attacking the people who say things we dissagree with, and rather just attack their ideas, several things occur:

1. No one walks away feeling poor or feeling as if they have enemies, thus contributing to a richer environment to debate in.

2. Folks who make be more timid, might feel more comfortable sharing their views, without the worry of being personally attacked. This makes for new opinions and more ideas to arise.

3. We become better at expressing ourselves and more respectful in the way we do so. Also, our opinions and arguements are strengthened in fact.

4. The debate will go on....because we all know from reading threads here on ifish, and hopefully from dealing with situations in the real world, that the quickest way to have someone shut down and walk away is to personally attack them.

If these three things take place here on ifish, all of our thirst for knowledge and entertainment about fishing and hunting related topics will be fulfilled even more so than it is now. So many more opinions make for better discussion, and better debate.

We are only cheating ourselves by missing out on these opinions by SHUTTING PEOPLE DOWN.

Once I realized this, I became a much better person to debate with than the person I was several years ago. I let myself in on a whole wealth of knowledge that before I had missed out on.....and cheated myself from.

Just a thought......Thanks Guys....ifish rocks



Jon

[QH's Paw]

If you really want to see a thread drop off the earth watch this I'll reply..... Just remember two things I've stated before. It's really easy.
1. Try not to take it personal.
2.Try not to make it personal.
OK, proceed with the bricks...

[Lucky one]

QH great point. I think that may be one reason why EH gets flamed so much, he targets a group that practices certain methods and proclaims them as "poachers" or "wasteful". Its hard not to take something personal when you feel you have been called out.

[Clamman]

Jon,

It is a pleasure and a relief to see such open-mindedness.

People with attitudes like that can share a blind with me any day.


Clam

[pnwcoast]

:grin:

[thehunt]

Jon, I agree with what you have said. I have a degree in Human Communication, and have studied alot about debate and constructive communication. Personally, I think that some people bring the personal attack on themselves over time. Just like the law, the first offense might get you a slap on the wrist, but the thrid or fouth offense, you might find yourself locked up.
I love a good debate with an anti-hunter probably more than most. I look at it as an opportunity to shed light on what hunters truly feel, and moreover, the respect and admiration I have for the critters I hunt.
You know I respect you, and I respect the goal of this thread. I hope it sticks and maybe this site will stop heading down the same path as all the others.

[Bugle4em]

Has anyone ever met Ethical Hunter, aka Harry Balzak (sp?) in person?

Has anyone ever seen a pic of Ethical Hunter, aka HB?

Is his real name Harry Balzak? (suspicious)