WHAT CAN BE DONE?

[Timber Man]

The other day I was fishing Hoodsport Hatchery zone,after a couple hours 8 tribal boats showed up.there was about 15 guys fishing and they started on one end and looped there nets from one side all the way to the last guy and started yelling that we couldnt fish inside there nets as soon as they had us surrounded.What gets me is that we were already fishing when they got there what gives them the right to tell us to stop?The tribal fish cop come up and started telling everyone he was going to start arresting people on a class C felony if they didnt stop fishing.Not only that but the hatchery doesnt even have there quota yet.After all the crap was over 9 jacks and 4 darker bucks were found on the beach not wanted by the indians.Another sad thing, I saw a fisherman walk up and give them $100 for 4 fish.My question is what can be done about this or who can I contact?We called NW cable news and Q13 news they are the most bias.Something has to be done!!!!!The indians broke laws and were let do it but the fisherman were warned they would be arrested.Tell me the fairness in this all.If anyone has any ideas let me know?MAD AS HELL..TM

[This message has been edited by Timber Man (edited 08-25-2000).]

[Trick]

If something doesn't change we are going to have something close to another cival war. I can't believe you kept your cool, I'd be in prison right now for something much worse than a class "C" felony.

[Timber Man]

Then I would have been the bad guy..Best to try to handle this legally if it is possible.TM

I am getting angrier all the time about what's going on. While I don't condone your portended possible reactions Tshickam, I sure do understand them! And Kat., I don't condone yours either, but are the Indians trying to invoke a riot or war over their abuse of rights in general, and of ours specifically. Continued behavior of the kind posted about in the Hoodsport area and many others, especially reported by members of the P.P. BB, is not going to do the Tribes one bit of good for their long term interests; to put it mildly! - RT

[Jim]

Timberman...are you absolutely positive that the hatchery does not have its fish? I will call the director of this complex of Hatcheries on monday if you have proof positive that they have not. My understanding is that the tribe is not allowed to net until the hatchery has its take which is only about 1500 fish if I remember correctly...this was expected to be another run like last year. Let me know here how you know regarding the hatcheries quota.

I called the hotline a couple of days ago and the recording was that the tribe would be netting their normal schedule and that they had fish back to the racks, so....

I like the rest of you am about ready to spit nails.

Jim

Jim

[Timber Man]

Jim...I'am positive!! I went up to the hatchery to pitch a ***** and was told by several working there.They were all ****** to but there hands are tied..When the tide was in the Indians run there boats up to the rack and run the fish out..Can you ******* believe it...These fish were in a zone that is off limits ..supposedly for all people red,whit,black or brown.I told the tribal cop and he laughed at there ignorance but did nothing...MAD AS HELL!!! TM

[This message has been edited by Timber Man (edited 08-26-2000).]

[Grant Scheele]

This may be a really stupid question but if they are chasing fish out of an off limit area like the "rack", (sorry, I don't know what a rack is) why can't the State Police come in and arrest. I am assuming that the Indians are considered off limits to the police. We can't resent the Indians when this kind of stuff goes on, they are going to do whatever they are allowed to do. No different than the rest of us. Ultimately, our Federal Government makes the rules.

Well Grant, I can resent the Indians when they commit illegal &/or unethical fishing activity; same for non-Indian fishers! Just because the lack of proper law enforcement enables (not allows) them to do these things does not appease me. I resent it strongly and am angry about ! - RT

[Grant Scheele]

I agree! If it is illegal then why does it happen so often. Steve, lets see what happens if you and I go strafe Salmon in a hatchery holding area.

[Trick]

I can't believe that an Indian official can tell Timberman to get out yet our officials tell him that their hands are tied? Land of the free? By the way, I wouldn't risk going to prison over a fish. I have a tendacy to speak when I'm ****** off and the wrong words come out. Must be my indian bloodline that causes me to do this.

There have been fishers in the past who have risked it, and the way things are going I think there could be a lot more of them! I won't be one of them. But I will keep doing all legal that I can. - Hey Grant, I can't figure out what your typo "strafe" means but it sounds like a lot of fun! Count me in . - RT

[roadsend]

If in fact the folks with the nets did something illegal, they should be dealt with.
WDF and NMF enforcement branches should be notified. Names of witnesses including hatchery workers should be given to these agencies along with written statements if possible. If no action is taken, all relevant information should be sent to your state and U.S. representatives and senators.

[Timber Man]

I asked the fish cop if he could show me in the regs where it says I cant fish in there sane nets and he said it wasnt in the regs.Can anyone tell me where I could find out this information?STILL MAD AS HELL TM

[Grant Scheele]

Steve, it was not a typo. Maybe it's not perfectly used in that sentence but it is a word. Look it up and I do think that you will want to go with me.

[NorthRiverS]

Hey Guys,
Has anyone thought of video taping the offenses from a ways away. That way no direct confrontation would occur, but valuable evidence would be obtained. Pictures are worth a thousand words. And they hold up in court.

[Pilar]

What happens to the fish caught by these tribal fishers? Is it sold to the public out of pickup trucks like the fish caught at Cascade Locks? Or sold to commercial concerns.

Perhaps the people buying these illegally caught fish could be harassed, publicized, or picketed. Embarassment is an effective way to modify behavior. Would you buy poached fish? Would the tribal fishers be as big a problem if they could not sell their catch for a market price?

The bend is your friend!

This subject is so profound, and like happenings are being reported around the Northwest, that I am going to copy and print reactions on Bob's P.P. BB too. - Some reactioins from Washington: DanO
Returning Adult
Posts: 63
From:anadromous, pacific,n.w.
Registered: Apr 2000
posted 08-25-2000 07:41 PM
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Don't know if it will help, but try Dennis Nicks, who is a fish and wildlife enforcement officer [425] 775-1311, he has told me that the state police will respond asap to enforcement problems, [206]464-6610 0 fax [425] 338-1066, TDD[360]902-2207
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Chris
Returning Adult
Posts: 154
From:Poulsbo, Wa
Registered: Mar 2000
posted 08-25-2000 08:21 PM
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I am with you that is BS. I would be ******. that is a great idea about the tv. I will help out if you need it.
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Timber man
Returning Adult
Posts: 65
From:Shelton (now Roy) Washington
Registered: May 2000
posted 08-25-2000 10:14 PM
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We are thinking about some kind of protest.Anyone think something like that would stop them atleast for the day?TM
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stlhead
Returning Adult
Posts: 123
From:
Registered: Mar 99
posted 08-26-2000 10:57 AM
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same thing would happen in the north sound. They watch to see if fishermen are catching the silvers then run the net right around your boat and yell at you to get out.
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Moondog
Smolt
Posts: 7
From:Olympia, Wa
Registered: Mar 2000
posted 08-26-2000 11:09 AM
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What we need to do is to video these so called Native Americans in the act of breaking the law. I for one am going loaded with camcorder in hand to tape them gutting the fish for their eggs (to sell to Japan) and discarding the carcass on the beach. They will no longer be able to speak with forked tongue and deny that they do this. I have seen them do it. And video of them doing it might be considered news worthy even to our local news.

A picture speaks a thousand words.


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fp
Returning Adult
Posts: 70
From:Hoquiam,WA.USA
Registered: Mar 99
posted 08-26-2000 12:02 PM
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This brings up another question I have.
If I am fishing, under power,trolling for salmon, or similiar and a gillnetter, American or Indian, sets up their drift net, under power, and our paths should cross.

Do I reel up and get out of their way?

Do I wait for them to reel up and get out of my way?

Do I run over their nets? Then untangle the mess.

Do I call 911,Fish & Wildlife,USCG, Indian law enforcement or just go home?

This has happened to me and I will not print what my coarse of action was.

fp

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Chris
Returning Adult
Posts: 154
From:Poulsbo, Wa
Registered: Mar 2000
posted 08-26-2000 01:03 PM
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moon dog that is a great idea.
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J.C.B
Returning Adult
Posts: 32
From:Marysville Washington
Registered: Aug 2000
posted 08-26-2000 02:15 PM
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Moondog it won't hold up in court, but the T.V stations would eat it up. If it happens often than hit them were it hurts. IMAGE :
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Truckdriver
Smolt
Posts: 4
From:Chehalis,WA USA
Registered: Aug 2000
posted 08-26-2000 04:18 PM
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quote:
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Originally posted by Timber man:
The other day I was fishing Hoodsport Hatchery zone,after a couple hours 8 tribal boats showed up.there was about 15 guys fishing and they started on one end and looped there nets from one side all the way to the last guy and started yelling that we couldnt fish inside there nets as soon as they had us surrounded.What gets me is that we were already fishing when they got there what gives them the right to tell us to stop?The tribal fish cop come up and started telling everyone he was going to start arresting people on a class C felony if they didnt stop fishing.Not only that but the hatchery doesnt even have there quota yet.After all the crap was over 9 jacks and 4 darker bucks were found on the beach not wanted by the indians.Another sad thing, I saw a fisherman walk up and give them $100 for 4 fish.My question is what can be done about this or who can I contact?We called NW cable news and Q13 news they are the most bias.Something has to be done!!!!!The indians broke laws and were let do it but the fisherman were warned they would be arrested.Tell me the fairness in this all.If anyone has any ideas let me know?MAD AS HELL..TM
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Hey Timberman I read your thing about the run in with the indians and think thats a bunch of crap. If I am not mistaking it is against the law for the indians to drag their nets across your fishing lines; try calling one of the BIG news stations in Seattle and maybe Ross McCluaglin will investigate?? Ha. Hey I think all the white fisherman should write to our senator and complain about how the indians are going about their fishing and such if you know what I mean? Richard Truckdriver


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Timber man
Returning Adult
Posts: 65
From:Shelton (now Roy) Washington
Registered: May 2000
posted 08-26-2000 08:52 PM
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I asked the fish cop if he could show me in the regs where it says I cant fish in there sane nets and he said it wasnt in the regs.Can anyone tell me where I could find out this information?STILL MAD AS HELL TM

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Native son
Returning Adult
Posts: 85
From ort angeles wa.
Registered: Jun 2000
posted 08-26-2000 11:18 PM
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FP under the rules of the road you are the give way vessel the vessel with the gillnet has the right of way and you as the giveway must stay well clear of the gear that is deployed or that is being deployed. Its the same under Inland rules and International col. regs.
A vessel engaged in trolling (not trawling) is not under the rules of the road considered to be impeded in its ability to manuver and gets no special consideration for passing
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Timber man
Returning Adult
Posts: 65
From:Shelton (now Roy) Washington
Registered: May 2000
posted 08-26-2000 11:32 PM
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Native-I was standing on the bank not in a boat..TM
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bank walker
Returning Adult
Posts: 52
From:monroe WA
Registered: Dec 1999
posted 08-27-2000 08:38 PM
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Timberman,
Times like that make you want to tie on a good ol' pyramid sinker and let the games begin, but cooler heads prevail... video camera is a great idea, and if you do happen to catch them in the act send it in to an enforcement agency and every media place in the NW.
Too much greed out there(white or Native American) =(
- BW


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Big Jim
Returning Adult
Posts: 146
From:Tacoma, Wa. USA
Registered: Feb 2000
posted 08-27-2000 09:40 PM
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First, the tribal cop has no authurity over you unless you are on tribal land. Tell him to go "blank" himself. That is what two of my TPD buddies said. Second, if you are there first, stand your ground, with all the other fishermen around, there will be plenty of people in the way of closing the net. Third, carry a camera. Take pics or film it. I have been thinking about trying the combat fishery this year. Maybe I still will....
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I'm sure lots more is to be heard on this entire NW subject! - RT

[Jim]

TIMBERMAN...I HAVE NEWS!!!
Talked with Tim Flint regional manager and I now know.

The tribes are scheduled to beach seine in front of the hatchery on Tuesday and Thursdays (just like the chum), this was agreed upon preseason for the last two years.

It has nothing to do with egg take at the hatchery. The hatchery now has about 600 adults so about 300 females (approximately) they need 1500 females to meet the egg take quota, there is no concern at this point at achieving that.

As for creating conflict...in the negotiations this year the tribe wanted the Hoodsport zone closed down to sport fishing on Tuesdays and Thursdays. Flint argued that it can be done both ways...since they usually seine at high tide (or close) anyway...his belief is that any conflict will probably result in a closure to sportfishing next year on "their" days. So just like Chums best day to be there is Monday..today..Hope this makes sense...email me at washingtonoutdoors@gamefishin.com if you have any questions.

Thanks

Jim

Here's just one example of many that demostrates why we so badly need better law enforcement afield. This by Timber Man today on the P.P. BB: Timber man
Returning Adult
Posts: 66
From:Shelton (now Roy) Washington
Registered: May 2000
posted 08-29-2000 09:03 PM
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Went down to hoodsport again today and it finally happened!!!!I was told by a buddy about 6:45 the Indians showed up to net.Two guys were standing on the south side of the bank with lines in the water and they were told by the indians to reel up.Well they didnt and they ran there lines over.As soon as the netters hit the beach the fight was on and fists flyin.Something needs to be done or guns will take a role in this whole thing.They wiped it out AGAIN.600 in the hatchery for the year so far and 4000 in 2 days for the indians.TM

[Jim]

RT, where did you get the 4000 number...is that provable??

Jim

[THE REEL HEY_YALL]

Man, that is such BS! Washington has by far a very slack-ass conservation department, and I will argue that with anybody. That's so sad that we have to pay for something our ancestors did like 500 years ago..starting with Columbus to present. All I hear is people belly-aching about maybe we should do this, maybe we should do that.....Well maybe if everyone correlated ideas and took their thumbs out their butts then some action could be taken instead of ******** and moaning about it to RT and the B.B. You can email or write any Representative, or any politician for that matter, if you feel so strongly about it. Even if you are disheartened by an action or words spoken to you by the "tribes"...yeah those guys with the FUBU clothes and dreadlocks (nice identity) just pick up the phone and call someone if you are the least bit skeptical. Alot of times the tribes will BS you and you don't find that out until you get home or at a later date discussing fishing altercations. Hell, whenever in doubt, pick up a camera and/or pick up a phone. Trust me, those guys really hate their pics taken And for future references, file all the pics of them you get and store them away for a "rainy" day. You never know when you can make a difference. If you write to a politician, then please be courteous and respectful, even if the guy is a slapass. Or woman, if you will. ****** off, and.....
Roll Tide

[Timber Man]

Sorry RT--I tried to post it here last night but it seems there was problems logging on..It was a nother day of slaughtering for the skoks yesterday.. what a shame,no wonder our returns are so LOW!!!!Jim-- I got the # from the hatchery workers. ...TM

[This message has been edited by Timber Man (edited 08-30-2000).]

hey_yall, your language and inflamatory posting tones are starting to go over the line of acceptance on our BB here. Please try to relax and clean them up for us a bit. Would really appreciate it, because they will become contagious and snowball into something we don't want and will ban. Otherwise I like your post! Good ideas for sure. Thanks. - RT

[Timber Man]

Tomorrow they will be netting again wish I could come up with a way to protest without getting thrown in jail!!!TM

[This message has been edited by Timber Man (edited 08-30-2000).]

[Salmonator]

TM, I think RT was talking about HY, who sounds suspiciously similar to steelhead guy, buzzbomber and fishslayer. Hmmm...

Timberman requested info in his edited post above about what I found offensive in some posts, then he edited the Q out. Just wanted to clarify that so readers wouldn't be confused by Sal's and my replies. Here's mine below:

TM, that was for "hey_yall"; that is his moniker. Read the foul language and inflamatory tones in his post above mine which requested him to tone it down for us. That's all. No big deal. If these type of posts are allowed it has been proven that they will snowball into harsher language and tones. Been there, done that. Not allowed anymore. We can easily express anger effectively without the above things. - RT - BTW, I really appreciate you bringing these wrongs into public forums to help go after the problem TM. The best advise I've heard on here is to take pics and VIDEO to give to news stations and law enforcement agencies. Give them to the media first and then tell the wildlife police the media has it and is awaiting to report on their enforcement response. Then see if they slack off of their responsibilities! - RT

[This message has been edited by RT (edited 08-30-2000).]

[Timber Man]

RT- I thought you were refering to me then I read the post and seen ya_all.My fault I didnt read before I made my comment.I know I brought up a subject that gets under peoples skin.But I thought so far all has been going well.ya_all needs to tone it down a bit and lets discuss this calmly and try to come up with ideas to make a change.TM

[THE REEL HEY_YALL]

Totally calm now except for that pot of coffee I just slammed. Yeah Timberman, thanks for bringing that to the board and letting us all in on what has happened in your case. I propose, in addition to filing of photos and videos, that everyone that comes into any kind of conflict, to keep a diary describing everything down to a tee. Alot of times people won't cash your check if you don't dot your i's and cross your t's. So why give them a loophole to jump through? UCLA is totally going to get stomped because of.....
Roll Tide

[Timber Man]

There has been some changes to the indian fishing in hoodcanal hatchery zone.The had some sort of meeting and until the hatchery has there quota they can only fish 7:00am to 12:00pm Tuesdays and thursdays instead of 7am to 7pm.Lots of fish back to the racks friday hope this keeps up and they get way more then there quota like last year.Going down tuesday when they net,just to see what they try to tell me to do.And yes I will fish in there nets.I guess we will see what happens.I know one thing if the tribal cops arrest me they will have a lawsuit on there hands.TM