Black Bear Load Questions

[Dan in Alaska]

I am going on a black bear hunt this spring. The hunt will be a week-long guided adventure via boat in Prince William Sound, Alaska. I have never hunted black bears before, so I am pretty excited about it.

I have a Remington 700 that was rebarreled in .338-06 several years ago, and I have worked up several loads for this rifle using 200gr Balistic Tips and 250gr Grand Slams. Both loads will group under an inch at 200 yards. I am also planning to work up a load using Nosler's 225 grain Accubond bullet. Of the three .338 caliber bullets I've chosen, I think the the two heavier bullets would be a better choice for black bear.

But I am curious, does anyone have experience using the .338cal. 200 BT's on large game? Do they hold together well, or are they rather explosive like many of the smaller caliber Balistic Tips?


Second Question:
I have a 30-06 that I am planning to take along as a back-up gun. In the past, my 30-06 has been used for deer hunting with 165gr bullets, so I would like to work up some bear loads using 180-200gr bullets. I am thinking about trying the Barnes 180gr X-Bullet and the Nosler 200gr Accubond. Does anyone have any good 30-06 loads using these bullets? Any other .30 caliber bullets/loads you'd recommend for black bear?

Thanks,
Dan

[Hunt'nFish]

First Question:
I think your worrying too much about which black bear load to use. Either are fine choices in a .338-06, velocity is low enough to not be concerned about rapid expansion.
I shoot a faster .338Ultra and my bullet of choice for elk/blk bear is the 215gr Serria GameKing BTSP, which is a pretty fast expanding bullet similar to the Nosler BT. The larger caliber BT's are built a fair bit tougher than the smaller calibers. Blk bear are not particular tough if you put the bullet in the boiler room.
Go have fun on your PWS hunt and be sure to share the story and pics with us!!!

Second question:
I'm not a fan of Barnes X, and although the 200 Accubond would serve you well for this hunt, I think I'd develop a more multi-purpose load.
I'd use a std bonded 180gr bullet for a "do it all" 30-06 load if I were you. (even a bonded 165gr bullet would do fine.) I think that load would also serve you well in a number of other future hunts as well. My pet blk bear rifle is a .280rem with 150gr handloaded core-lokt bullets. I've killed 4 bear I think..no, make that 3, with it... all 1shot ea. The 4th was a taken with the .338ultra and the Serria load at 25paces...big 325lb brown blacky here in the Cascade Mts. That was a front quartering shot through the front shoulder and through the boiler room and it didn't exit and was not recovered. Killed it dead FAST though!
Hope this gives you comfort. I think your setup just fine for a black bear hunt.
Hunt'nFish

[billc_sbio]

Dan,

I have and shoot (on Elk) a .338 Win. caliber rifle.

My experience with BTs (and I shoot those on Deer/Antelope) is that IMHO I WOULD NOT use those on Bear!

If you already have a good load worked up with the Grand Slams, that's what I'd go with.

The BTs "explode" on anything but thin skinned game, and I think the sturdiness of a Bear is too much to count on the BT doing the job you're looking for.

If you'd like some other bullet "options", just yesterday a new Midway flyer arrived, and it looks like they've got a "deal" going on .338 cal. "Combined Technologies" Win./Nosler bullets at $19.95/50.

Those, the Partitions or maybe even the newer Accubond Noslers would be good choices?

[billc_sbio]

Hmm...Hunt 'n Fish might have something there!

I've NEVER shot BTs in my .338.

I have in .25, .270 and .30 cal. For those I'd still say they "explode"...

Don't really KNOW about the .33 cal. BTs?

[Santiam338]

I have a 338-06 and have taken several bear with it...After I first had it built I tested all manners of loads and bullets...

I have settled on the plain ol' 200 gr Hornady Interlock..

At the 2800 fps of my 338-06 they perform superbly....

I realy don't think you will have a problem...

[Hunt'nFish]

There ya go.. a fellow .338-06 guy's advise. I might try the Hornaday Interbond today.

The 180gr Swift Sirroco would be interesting in a .30-06

I've got a box of 210gr Swift Sirrocos for the 338Ultra that I haven't worked with yet. that's another bullet that should do well even in the slower 338-06. My 215gr Gameking load has served me just fine and the rifle has been used to take 4 now. So until I work down my supply of the Gameking load, I don't feel the need to mess with the Sirroco's yet.

[alaskan]

I think you'll do just fine with either gun you take. use heavy bullets in them and put them in the right place. black bears are not as tough as a lot of people think they are. BUT, you will want to put them down on the beach, they can be very hard to track if they make it into the woods.
That will be a great hunt, choose your bear wisely, you'll have the chance at a lot of bears, so don't shoot the first one you see, unless he's a real hog.

[Hunt'nFish]

Dan,
Here's to plenty of fresh new tender sea grass to hunt over!
We WILL expect pics..you do know that.
Hunt'nFish

[MarlinMark]

I would stick with the Nosler's in 200 gr. Accubond. Or the old standby....Partiions.

Mark

[Dan in Alaska]

Wow! That's a lot of feedback in a short amount of time. I knew I came to the right place. Thanks guys. And, don't worry; I will be sure and take loads of pictures to share with everyone.

My uncle and a few of his friends are coming up to do the hunt with me in May. A couple of them have asked to use my rifle, rather than drag one of their own on the plane with them. This hunt offers me a great opportunity to try a couple of different bullets for side-by-side comparisons.

What powder(s) do you guys use for loading the heavier bullets in the .30-06. I used to use IMR 4350 with the 165's, but is there something better for the 180-200 grain varieties?



HNF, How do you like you .338 RUM? I had one when I moved up here, but I sold it in the hopes of quickly replacing it with a stainless version. I never did. Lately, I have been toying with the idea of getting a larger rifle. Many folks up here are staunch supporters of the .375 H&H for the big bears, but I like the long-range abilities of the .338 RUM.

[Hunt'nFish]

I LOVE my .338Ultra! I was all prepared to convert a .338win SS Browning A-Bolt to .330Dakota when they anounced the .338Ultra, so I punched it out to that since it ballistically WAS a .330Dakota. It puts down the game just fine.

Humm, .375Ultra....I'm not sure I'd care to squeeze that trigger very much. I think the .338Ultra will do anything you want to do. The 250gr A-Frames should handle even the biggest brown. I've seen 250gr A-Frames recovered from a 9ft brown and they looked like your classic mushrooms. One was a going away texas heart shot and it run the length of the bear! That was out of a .340Wby, but the .338Ultra is a ballistic twin. So I would expect the same out of the ultra.

Just make sure you get a 26" barrel and give RL25 and Retumbo a try. I'm using a compressed load of RL22 under my 215gr Gamekings. Up there I'd probably load 225's or 250's just depends on how much big bear country I thought I'd find myself in and if I planned to use the same rifle on caribou. Some of that work can get long and the 225 would be better.
Hunt'nFish

[Beamerfish]

Alaska bears must be alot tougher than ours and I'm wondering what others have experienced. The east side Oregon spring bears we have been hunting are going down like a sack of potatoes with any decent hit of most any reasonable caliber. They don't seem anywhere near as tough as they are in the fall - probably something to do with the long winter's nap. Seems like even the lighter .338 loads would be plenty to spare. Then again, there's rarely any such thing as too much gun and down & dead on the beach is definitely preferable to very angry and in the brush.

[ICHTHYDEMON]

The .338 and .375 Ballistic tips are a much heavier design than those of .308 and less. There are alot of guys with good reports on the heavier BTs at 24 Hour Campfire.

[Headhunter]

Dan,

I have a Rem 700BDL 30.06 that I use for elk and shoot an 180gn Rem Core-Lokt and love them. Great penetration, good expansion and the round does not break up. Even at the shoulder, it gets the job done. Just my

Good luck and report back with lots of pics!

Jim

[steeliez]

I have a Remington 700 that was rebarreled in .338-06 several years ago, and I have worked up several loads for this rifle using 200gr Balistic Tips and 250gr Grand Slams. Both loads will group under an inch at 200 yards.

That's a nice 200 yard group! What kind of barrel did you put on that rifle?

[OuterLimits]

I have used both the .270 with Hornaday 130 gr and .338 Win Mag with Nosler 200 Ballistic tips for black bear. Both work great!!

[Dan in Alaska]

Steeliez, I had a chrome moly Krieger barrel put on my Remington 700 action. I chose their #4 sporter contour in the standard 1-10" twist, and I had the barrel cryo-treated. I told my gunsmith to cut the finished length to 25 inches, just to be different. I am very happy with the accuracy I am getting out of this barrel, and Krieger would be my first choice if I were to rebarrel another rifle.

[BrianMaguire]

If your current loads group under 1" at 200 yards I would not change a thing. A 338 is plenty for black bear although you get some big ones up north.

I have heard about the cryo of metal. Do you think it helped out? I am struggling to keep 1" groups at 100 right now with a Rem 700. I have a copper fouling problem in one of my 700's so I think I have a tight spot.

[Hunt'nFish]

Brian,
I know we have talked about lapping, but I'm also a big believer in cryo'ing the barreled action as well, AND THEN LAPPING. That way you relieve the stress and the knock the tops off the tight spots. Cryo'ing also hardens the barrel material (something about austenite and martenite carbides) and that combined w/ lapping really reduces the fouling. I used to do a lot of this on custom Mini-14's. There was a fella over in Longview that I used to use.
Hunt'nFish

[BrianMaguire]

So there is someone local for the Cyro? There was a company called 300 below that does it out of Ohio but the entire shipping gun thing has me scratching my head.

I have ordered the lapping kit from cabelas and the plan was to get some loads made next week and hit the range next weekend for the lapping. Goin cat hunting this weekend so I won't be able to do anything this weekend. I would love to know who the guy is in WA.

Thanks

Brian

[baltz526]

you might find something here on cryogenic barrel treatments http://www.international-benchrest.com/linkindex.html

[ogrejager]

That will be a great hunt, choose your bear wisely, you'll have the chance at a lot of bears, so don't shoot the first one you see, unless he's a real hog.

This is an important piece of advice. There's a TON of blackies in the sound.

[bendtbbucsfan]

Nosler took into account the nature of the game people hunt using cartridges 8mm and up. The jacket walls on these BT bullets are MUCH thicker and sturdier than on smaller caliber BT's. They were designed to be a true hunting bullet. That or the Partition equals dead bear. I've never shot the accubonds and I left their employment before we ever made them.

[Hunt'nFish]

Brian,
I don't think he's doing it anymore. I'll see if I can dig up a phone # and let ya know. Don't lap until you cryo, otherwise you'll induce new tight spots. Sure they will be little ones, but all the same, I'd cryo first.
I'll send you my list of cyro shops, their is about 3-4 outfits I know of...one down in california.
Hunt'nFish

BTW: Good luck kitty hunting. Limbhanger & I are going to sneak out as well.

[Hunt'nFish]

Brian,
Here's your folks:

Onecryo
http://www.onecryo.com/

$45 for barrel
$10 for action
$5 for bolt
Their just up the road and it may be the same folks I've used in the past, they could've just moved the shop.


Seattle Facility
INFO & E-mail <mailto:onecryo@foxinternet.net>
14801 128th St. E.
Puyallup, WA 98374
1-800-300-CRYO (2796)
Voice 253-840-5999
Fax 253-845-1943

[BrianMaguire]

Thanks - what do you think of Cryogenic Tempering of bullets and shell casings?

[Dan in Alaska]

Thanks for all the input, guys. I have another question about black bears, but I think I will start a new thread.

Brian, I don't know if the cryo made a difference in accuracy, since that is the way I ordered the barrel. I don't have any before and after cyro data to compare. When I ordered the barrel, the folks at Kreiger told me they cryo treats ALL of their barrel blanks before machining. They offer a second cryo treatment after the final machining, for a little extra cost. I had the second treatment done. I figured the extra $40 was fairly insignificant in the overall cost of the project.

I do notice a difference in bore smoothness when I clean this barrel, when compared to other rifles I own. When I run a bore brush or patches down the Kreiger barrel, it feels very smooth, and it cleans quickly. When I clean any of the other rifles (with factory barrels), it takes more effort to push the brush and patches down the bore, and it takes more patches before they come out clean.

[BrianMaguire]

Thanks.. sorry to hijack your thread.

[Dan in Alaska]

No worries, Brian. It's all good.

[As yet un-named]

I would second, or is that third/fourth/fifth the suggestion to just use one of the loads you've already got dialed in for the .338. I killed my first eastern oregon black bear two years ago at a whopping 120 yds. with my .22-250. I intended to shoot him with my bow, but it got tangled up in my cell phone cord on the way out of the truck, so I grabbed the only rifle I had with me, ran over the ridge in time for him to stop broadside. No exit wound, but he didn't go far. That little 50gr. psp Sierra jellied all the boiler parts. Maybe I'll get one with the bow yet...

[Grantspastor]

Elmer Keith was right. Big bullet, big wound channel. I like the heavier bullets in .338