Do you have a Survival Suit? Need One?

Just A Little Chrome · 03-07-2006, 06:12 PM

Hi, not really new here but my partner and I purchased the Big Liar from who else? Big Liar thanks we really like the boat.

Boat is a 22' HewesCraft with ofshore bracket, a Honda 150 and 15 HP. Literature says positive bouyancy (flotation). My concern is everything drains into bilge and bilge pump is good but......

I am this close to purchasing a survival suit as we will be Tuna and Halibut fishing, not that you have to be that far from shore to have things go wrong.

Who has survival suits on board? Should we have enough onboard for passengers? Anyone ever have to use one in an emergency?

PS We will have Class 1 lifjackets onboard.

Thanks for your input.

kamloops · 03-07-2006, 06:18 PM

Sounds like you need one of those Rockit suit deals

your partner reserves the right to go down with the ship

Metal Manipulator · 03-07-2006, 06:20 PM

The best bet is to have a dry suit. NSIA make's Rocket wear which is a dry suit with boots attatched. For full time wear it probably is the most comfortable to wear. I have worn mine a couple of times and I can't seem to get used to the neck seal, I always seem to be choking. That said I still plan to wear it again even if the crew looks funny at the capton (me).

Just A Little Chrome · 03-07-2006, 06:42 PM

your partner reserves the right to go down with the ship

[/quote]

Tom, why doesn't that surprise me.

Jeff P · 03-07-2006, 07:02 PM

I plan to purchase a "worksuit", or possibly 3. These are a type of survival suit that provide about 8 hours of protection for water temperatures in our area. These are basically like a wet suit and provide thermal protection by trapping air in closed cell foam. They also have ankle and wrist straps to prevent water from surging in and out of the suit. Unlike drysuits, you will get wet. But, the air in the foam will be there regardless, and that's what provides the protection. In addition, you don't have to worry about seal and zipper maintenance, and they won't choke you.

The down side of a drysuit (the shell variety which is worn over a polyfill or other type of insulated undergarment which does not trap air) is that they provide very little thermal protection if the integrity of the suit is violated (i.e. wrist or neck seal blows out). As long as the seals are in good condition you will stay warm an comfortable. I've spent a lot of time in a drysuit of this type for diving in Oregon. I was very happy with mine for that application.

I think the thermal load is going to be pretty high with either suit. If it's a warm summer day, I don't imagine I will don either suit unless things get sketchy.

So, there's the opinion of a guy who's new to the ocean, never worn a worksuit, but has read a lot about survival suits. Meaning, don't take my opinion as gospil.

Good luck,

JP

slowbuilder2005 · 03-07-2006, 07:13 PM

The USCG in the area uses Mustang bunny suit w/hood. I'll get one eventually. A Mustang float-coat is better than nothing however. Better safe than sorry. Put an EPIRB on the boat and a smaller one on the suit. Same goes for a waterproof GPS and VHF radio.

Brian

blubeast · 03-07-2006, 07:36 PM

I picked up a used survival suit (gumby type) on the big auction site - one for me... and hope I never have to use it. The challenge in picking up extras for your crew.. is sizing... unless you buy for a particular person, they may not fit properly. That's why I look to my crew to supply their own if they want one.

From talking with those who've worn the dry suit type outfits, unless it's fairly cool outside they get too hot, and have to take it off (or at least lower the top).. so you may want to try one out before you buy if possibe to determine what best suits your needs.

BrianH · 03-07-2006, 07:37 PM

Quote:

The best bet is to have a dry suit. NSIA make's Rocket wear which is a dry suit with boots attatched. For full time wear it probably is the most comfortable to wear. I have worn mine a couple of times and I can't seem to get used to the neck seal, I always seem to be choking. That said I still plan to wear it again even if the crew looks funny at the capton (me).

WetFly,
In my past I was into sea kayaking. I remember following a thread where people were talking about trimming the neck seals until they had the neck opening to a point where they weren't choking but it still held the water out. Having said that, I'd be very carefull and cut minimal amounts until you get it to a point where it is comfortable. If you want to research this idea, look for a website called PaddleWise and then search for the topic - its been a long time since I read that newsgroup, but it wouldn't surprise me if the subject was still around. The manufacturer might have suggestions on this as well.

I didn't mean to hijack this subject, but the discussion seemed appropriate here.

:lurk:

BrianH.

bajadan2000 · 03-07-2006, 08:11 PM

I have a dry suit and can not wear it in the boat all day. The only way I would ever buy another dry suit is if it was made of Gortex (about $800.00.) Gortex will let your body mosture out, other types will not. In a couple of hours you are all wet inside just from your own sweat. You should have the dry suit on when you enter the water. They are very hard to put on when you are in the water, ask Corrirod about this and the pool session.

I now have a full float worksuit (about $300.00) I wear all day, (like JeffP talked about in his post). Mine is a Sterns. Mustang also makes a good one. It is much easier to control your body temp. with a worksuit than a drysuit. However, when you enter the water with one, there are simple to make almost water tight. They also have straps that are easy to tighten and make compartments or chambers out of the suit.

Most saltwater accidents happen very fast. Most times it is what you are wearing when you enter the water that will mean life or death. Not often do you have time to stop and put things on. Wear the most protection you are comfortable with for the entire trip, no mater the conditions. Do a search on recent accidents.

Just A Little Chrome · 03-08-2006, 07:24 AM

Thanks for all the input

Very much appreciated. Think I'm leaning toward a worksuit type product.

Bluefinn · 03-08-2006, 07:34 AM

I have 4 gumby type suits on my boat.I have practiced getting into them and have worn them in a pool.They will float you very well and with practice you can get into one in 45 seconds.See pool trials from convention to see how well you float in one.They are very hard to put on in the water though not impossible but very difficult.

DriftR · 03-08-2006, 09:32 AM

I have the Mustang survival suit. Plan on purchasing another within the month. Never tried the drysuits. Not something I want to wear all day.

Spoonplugger · 03-08-2006, 01:20 PM

We settled for the worksuits. We've had dry suits in the past and found them uncomfortable. Also, if you get wet before getting into them they are no different than the worksuits. The worksuits you can wear all day long in total comfort except for only on the hottest days which really aren't that frequent anyway. The stearns I-580 is a very good suit and the mustang is a good one too.

O Tshawytcha · 03-08-2006, 01:49 PM

GREAT THREAD!!

Thanks,
GRIFF

Just A Little Chrome · 03-08-2006, 05:32 PM

Quote:

We settled for the worksuits. We've had dry suits in the past and found them uncomfortable. Also, if you get wet before getting into them they are no different than the worksuits. The worksuits you can wear all day long in total comfort except for only on the hottest days which really aren't that frequent anyway. The stearns I-580 is a very good suit and the mustang is a good one too.

Any suggestions on where to get the best price or is there such a place?

Thanks

Something Good · 03-08-2006, 06:23 PM

That boat sounds real nice! I say mount a life raft to the roof, one size fits all.

CATCH AND EAT · 03-09-2006, 10:09 AM

This is a great thread. Thanks for bringing it up Scott. Like you I am curious about where people are getting the best prices.

Tom.

Just A Little Chrome · 03-12-2006, 06:27 PM

Well I went to purchase a coverall type suit and was informed that these DO NOT offer much in the way of additional protection from cold water. Just a few more minutes :shocked:

So I placed an oreder for a gumby type suit.

Thanks again for all the input.

My Limit · 03-13-2006, 08:40 AM

Yes, I have a rocket wear dry suit and the neck chokes me and I burn up from heat. I'll go with something that breaths a little next time I drop $400. I can't wear this very often.

I know I will be happy with it if I end up in the water, however I can't wear it often enough to be sure that will happen.

Great product if you are on a wet open boat in the winter.

ML

Bucolic buffalo · 03-13-2006, 03:10 PM

I rode the Rocket with Kujo two years ago and I too have the choking problem big time. He had neck tubes made of poly pipe that went around your neck and then you rolled the collar down over it to keep it from choking you. Worked like a charm. Also I suffer from over heating in most outfits but with the polar tech jump suit and the Rocket wear I didn't get too hot. This is the only suit I have worn so take for what it is worth.

SKSPAWNER · 03-13-2006, 07:00 PM

Is this the "mini" Minaki?

Sunny K

Just A Little Chrome · 03-14-2006, 05:23 AM

Quote:

Is this the "mini" Minaki?

Sunny K

Mini is only a state of mind

kamloops · 03-14-2006, 05:39 AM

I hate boats.

bajadan2000 · 03-14-2006, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Well I went to purchase a coverall type suit and was informed that these DO NOT offer much in the way of additional protection from cold water. Just a few more minutes :shocked:

Does anyone have any real test results comparing the insulation value of the varies coverall and dry suits?

I have searched many sources and can not find anything.

How much insulation value does a work suit and a dry suit have on their own with nothing underneath, with all things equal (water temp. gloves or no gloves, hood, socks, these are things that can be added in many ways).

Is it the suit or what is worn underneath the suit that will offer the most protection from the cold?

I am not questioning a Captains decision to buy one type of suit over the other. However, I feel it is important to understand the true limits of the equipment we use. So anyone that has real test results, please share it with the rest of us dogs. Or a PM the info.

My Limit · 03-14-2006, 08:52 AM

A dry suit or rocketwear does not provide much if any protection from the temp. It just keeps you dry. It feels like you are inside a cold rubber suit, since the suit gets almost as cold as the water eventually. You will need to wear warm clothing underneath to stay warm. You can check with Kujo, maybe he knows more. I would guess you would stay alive longer than nothing even if you were naked underneath just by staying dry.

I've tried my rocketsuit in the river with shorts and a t-shirt underneath. Being dry makes you feel warmer, but you get cold.

Thermal underpants or a thermal jumpsuit would be great if it was not too hot outside.

The suits work great when you are in the water or on cold days. The only complaint I have is when it's warm outside. The other suits like Mustang Suits allow you to get wet and your survival time is much more limited in cold water.

Peace,

ML

Spoonplugger · 03-14-2006, 08:59 AM

bajadan2000, Bitefactory did quite a bit of research on the worksuit vs the dry suits and ended up choosing the Stearns I580 worksuits. Here is a link to some of his comments:

http://www.ifish.net/forum/showflat.php?...rue#Post1078725

Dry suits, speaking from experience, are very uncomfortable and we ended up not wearing them. I don't know about the new $800 gortex ones. We also settled for the Stearns I580 because of the comfort factor and you can wear it all day.

bajadan2000 · 03-14-2006, 10:07 AM

One comment I would like to add about dry suits is: do not assume they will keep you dry. Mine would develop small holes from time to time that required patching. ( I can see this happening alot if worn while fishing) Also, I needed to replace all of the seals after about 5 years of use. ( I free dive only, not rated for scuba ). Zippers need to be treated regularly.

Yes, all of the dry suits are tested for leaks at the factory before shipping. However, you need to test and service a dry suit on a regular basis.

CATCH AND EAT · 03-14-2006, 12:07 PM

Quote:

I hate boats.

Yeah me too, that's why there are 3 of them at my house.

Spoonplugger · 03-14-2006, 02:51 PM

Quote:

I hate boats.

Yeah me too, that's why there are 3 of them at my house.

Me too, that is why I sold 2 and only have 1 left!

Just A Little Chrome · 03-14-2006, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Does anyone have any real test results comparing the insulation value of the varies coverall and dry suits?

Here is the way I see it. After trying on the worksuit/jump suit it very clear that you can only cinch em down so much and it's not enough. Also I don't know what all the "comfortable" talk was about. No way could I wear one of these all day, very uncomfortable so..... I thought what do I really want? To survive! So gumby here I come and hope if I ever have to use it I have the time to get it on before the big splash. Just my humble pie but I don't think many can dispute a the protection provided by the gumby suit.

Scott

Just A Little Chrome · 03-14-2006, 06:04 PM

Oh by the way I love boats. I'm what you call on the uphill side of the inevitable pyramid of boat ownership it's all good right now but I can see what's coming and it looks a lot like the old oscilating train headlight comin down the tracks :shocked:

kamloops · 03-14-2006, 06:29 PM

Scott

It get alot better, than it rapidly bottoms out. You know your in trouble when you start restoring old wood boats that you picked up real "cheap". That's the peak, you got lots of way to go to get there.

Jeff P · 03-14-2006, 09:20 PM

"Does anyone have any real test results comparing the insulation value of the varies coverall and dry suits?"

Mustang has some good information on thier web site comparing the CLO values of thier various suits and coats, but I have not found any comparisons across different brands.

"Is it the suit or what is worn underneath the suit that will offer the most protection from the cold?"

It's really both. The idea is to slow the rate of heat transfer from your skin to the ocean. Air is a really poor thermal conductor- this is good. An air layer between your skin and the ocean is what you want.

With a dry suit, it's the undergarment that keeps the shell off of your skin and this creates the layer of air.

With a worksuit it's a little more complicated. Here, the air trapped in the closed cell foam is what limits the heat transfer. Obviously there will be a layer of water between your skin and the foam. Your body will heat this layer of water because the foam will limit the transfer of heat.

If you have a picture of how this works in your mind you can easily see why those ankle and wrist straps on the worksuits are so important. The layer of water next to your skin will never get warmer if it's constantly being flushed out with cold water.

Hope this helps,

JP