TTT " HLS"

[Water Ready]

Alright, now were all looking, and what are "we" doing about HLS.

ODFW seems to think this is so obscure that they can do nothing, other than take the "let's let it run it's course" theme.
I'm not a vet, nor a doctor, and mostly just deal with "my" livestock problems,( just a little more pro-active)if I see something developing.
5+ years they have tried to blame decline of Blacktails on HLS. (Not that killing the Fawn factories had anything to do with it? )

Let's talk this thru a sec.

1. They are pretty sure lice/mites, or something similar are attacking and doing the hair removal.
2. The years of study have done nothing to improve the problems.
3. So, what exactly are they doing to help these deer, other than watch them die?

I had a friend, 2 years ago, that recognized his little herd(14 blacktails) was affected. He went to a vet, and got something similar to a Eviomex (sp?) that was a product like paste, and put it on apples, and placed them out in the population. Hairloss went away, and to date has not saw one deer affected since. Plus, his little herd has grown to 24.
Hmm Coincidence

Let's see---We spend a lot of money on a bunch of Bioligist for years, with a lot of dead deer and no results, or we quiz a few veterinarians that get to see lice and fleas everyday, and see our population improve and spend a lot less, and money that goes to improve the deers health.
Better living by modern Chemistry theory.

One more thing-- I live in the foothills of the Cascades, and see some deer in the fields and close to town, that show HLS. But to date, have yet to see one with HLS in the grounds above my property, and to the top of the Cascades. The only problem is, I don't see many deer anymore above my property. Just Cat tracks.

It' seems everyone is willing to discuss, and debate, and go see how many are in peril. The problem is: There's not much time left!

I love hunting Blacktail bucks, and feel they can overcome most anything they endure that nature can throw at them.

I am also sure this is something more driven by domestic animals that has done this, than something mother nature provided, as an alternative to wolf re-introduction.

Be really quiet and listen to what we are learning from ODFW biology and shame management

------shhh------------------Here it comes---------------------


nothing

but wait there's more--------------------


Na Da

Go figure!

Is this what Blacktail hunting is coming to? Looking for HLS instead of trophy bucks? Gimmie a break!

Opinions Vary, and this is mine, and my .02 for what it's worth.

However, if you have deer on your property and want a little more info please pm me, and happy to share info.



Happy HLS Huntn' :depressed:

--------------------
www.waterready.com

[gottafish]

I have often thought of this to. This is not the only place to have crappy managment take place. In Michigan they had a small problem with TB in the deer herd. Most people there bait deer and it was being spread thru those bait piles. Insteed of banning bait they just made that the tb zone and said kill them all. just check the deer in for a health check and there yours. Heck one guy could kill 20 deer a day. Now its still called the Tb zone and I'll bet there isn't 20 deer in that zone. My buddy hunted it for a week of bow season and never saw a deer. 20 years ago this same property I hunted it and saw no less than 50 a day. I hope the ODFW isn't takeing leasons from Michigan. What they should do is put up some feeders that spray a pestacid on the deer when they come in to feed. then take the feeders out before spring.

[Hunt'nFish]

Interesting opinions and observations.


Is hairloss that big a problem??
I can't say as I've ever seen it. But then seeing blacktail is like seeing a ghost! Gotta be out there A LOT to see it.
Hunt'nFish

[HntnFsh]

A couple years ago they were doing research.I believe at the U of W.They fouind out they could treat it with anti biotics? The problem with doing that to the population in general was giving the deer a consistent supply.You just cant go out and sprea that stuff on an apple for all the deer.
So they did find out it was treatable.Now they have to find a way to do it.
I've noticed hairloss around here has gone in cycles.I know I'm not seeing as much of it this year.But I also know the herds are way,way down in the last 3 or 4 years.Its really takin a toll on them.

[ehunter]

Good question I don't have a answer they were doing a study in Corvalis have not heard any more about it. I am one of those guys that are very concerned I would be willing to drop off pasted apples in as many corners of NW Oregon as possible.

[Lucky one]

I heard the study done in corvallis was really just to see if the HLS was transferrable to mule deer. At least that is what I read in the Oregonian or the Statesmen a couple years back. Maybe that was another study though?

[Water Ready]

Let me get this straight, as I am confused to any of the validity of any studies, especially when they don't have any answers after 5+ years of "Research"! (which by the way we are paying for)
If your boss, put you on a project, and you showed no results in 1 year, you would be FIRED!

If the dead animals came off their bottom line and their savings account or pension, I am sure the solutions would be found quickly, without the loss of another animal.

I quit buying Blacktail Buck tags a few yars ago.
Not sure why, other than I didn't want to shoot the last Blacktail buck on the planet.
Ya, I know there is still a few around, and some killed some good ones this year. But with the direction of bad biology, and ODFW shame management, how long will it last?
Again--just my opinion and .02 for "whatever" it's worth.

Apples and flea& Lice meds--Better living by modern chemistry!

Happy Huntn' in the future!

[Rank Amateur]

I have been concerned since 98, all I had to do was talk to my co-workers from Washington, they had it before us. I screamed bloody murder when we saw it hit the North coast, yet it seemed to fall on deaf ears. Our bio even did a study and stated mortality was low from HLS. Yet the timber cutters around here were finding beds of hair and I was getting calls of dead or dying fawns in peoples garages or yards.

HLS is believed to be caused by the European louse (from Asia), it is so similar to a common louse that calls Oregon home, that there is only a few people who can tell the difference. Why it has such an effect is still under study.

Ivermectin an insecticide will kill the lice, the problem though is how do you treat the entire west coast. Then you get into the private property rights issues too. While we could treat this syndrome, we probably could not cure it. The only hope is that the deer will build an immunity to HLS, but there is no evidence of this so far that I'm aware of.

If this was a disease attacking livestock, there would be tons of money thrown at it, but since it is a publicly owned animal, it hardly warrants a study. Too add insult to injury, ODF&W keeps whacking Does up here on the North coast.

Will the Blacktails survive, most of us will probably live long enough to see the answer, one way or another.

[BrianMaguire]

Just wait until it hits whitetails.

[Water Ready]

RA,
I think it would be better money spent, buying apples(supporting Northwest apple growers) and meds, and educating the private landowners, and how they can help Vs. Pension plans for "Shame Management" and the free ride biology classes.
I understand there is probably no way to reach every animal, but the alternative to not trying, and doing nothing, is sure death for a bunch of deer.
ie; "Let it run it's course"theory!

I think i'll go get some apples!


Happy Huntn' :depressed:
Bruce

[ehunter]

Brian or mule deer they even spend more time in bigger groups than Blacktails...

[Rank Amateur]

I don't disagree with what you are saying. I have kicked around the idea of having at least a few refuges for the Blacktails around the area and have a list of people ready to help.

I did some online snooping of Ivermectin and it appears that it would be safe to use not only for deer, but also humans. I think this needs to be throughly fleshed out, so that if somebody takes a treated deer they don't have a problem.

I think the most effective way of distributing the treatment would be from the air, apples away!

The ODF&W folks are starting to sweat, westside tag sale are sliding fast and so is harvest. That's why there has been recent talk of restrictions ect.

[HntnFsh]

I know a gal that is a nurse. She purposely gives her kids Ivermectin once in awhile. :shocked:They have a huge goat farm.Guess she doesnt want them gettin any critters.They all seem to be in great health.Never seen any side effects.
I'm guessin if it was a problem she wouldnt do it.

[Rank Amateur]

Interesting. The only draw back though is if you dosed the deer and somebody shoots it and eats it and has a reaction, guess who they may try to go after? That's the one hesitation I would have and I imagine the state would too. If this is going to be done, it needs to be state approved and everybody notified to any risks.

This all may be a moot point since dosing would occur probably in December and as long as there were no hunts until fall there should be no problems. Poachers, oh well who cares!

[HntnFsh]

Brian and ehunter,
My understanding is that hair loss shouldnt be an issue in whitetails or mulies.Apparently the mites cant survive in the colder climates that those deer live in.

I've also heard that if the west side would have some colder winters it should really help clear up the problem.The last few years we have had warmer wet winters.Seems like the mites thrive in that climate.

I also understand that it isnt the mites that kill the deer.But pneumonia.They have no protection from the elements when they lose their hair.

Last year and this year I havent seen near the amount of deer with hairloss.But I have also noticed a drastic decline in #s over thast 5 years or so.Some of the local field where we used to see 8 or 10 deer.Were lucky to se 2 or 3.

Ive never seen an issue with elk.Anybody heard or had any ideas why?

[Rank Amateur]

Elk don't seem to be bothered. I don't know if "they" have looked at an elk to see if they even have the lice.

I haven't heard that temperature is a definative reason why the syndrome has not moved East, but it sure seems like the reason. That's why I posted up the recent thread, we finally had a good cold snap this year, what did we have, a couple of weeks in the low 20's? Of coarse, now we have wet and warmer weather, perfect HLS weather.

Your sightings are typical, first you see quite a bit of HLS and then you see a lower level of HLS, but also fewer deer and very few fawns.

[ehunter]

Thanks guys htnfsh that makes sense. Rank I think your right that there would be some potential liabality but gee's I would like to get the states input on it and if makes sense you can swamp the coast range with apples over 2 weekend period. Is there any effect on smaller animals and how much of a dose would a deer need. how long does the dose last?

[Rank Amateur]

In doing the online search, it was hard to pin down just how much you would need, but it seemed like not a whole lot and I think once you cleared the animal once, it would probably be good to go for the rest of the winter or at least get them through to spring. This will also take care of other parasites that deer have too, so you would end up with heathier deer all around. I'm sure the elk would benefit too. But knowing the laws of nature and physics, for every reaction there is another equal and opposite reaction. This would have been nice for the research project at Corvallis to evaluate.

I would have a hard time justifying doing a large scale project while ODF&W is still whacking Does.

[Water Ready]

You guys are kidding-Right? :whazzup:
If your not, I must ask this one very simple question.
Why on earth would we want to fund another study for 5 years, especially with ODFW?
By the time that's done there won't be any deer left, or the numbers will be so small that they will get listed, and we won't be hunting for years. :depressed:

Don't you think that people put theirselves at risk just going out hunting, let alone eating one. Every single person on earth, can react differently to anything they eat. I would prefer to eat a deer from here with some meds, than some of the food being imported from other countrys with chemicals we threw away.

I am not advocating this idea for Fish and Wildlife to study, but for the people that want to fix the critters in their yards, by choice, not force.

I would prefer to make my own decisions, Vs the State trying to protect me from myself.
I'm 45 years old and made it this far without their aid, and happy to do the next 45 too.

However, it's not about me, it the herds of Blacktail that once was , and the awesome Bucks that were so challenging and great hunting experiences they gave me, and my Dad.

So, Let ODFW take the lead if you want, but so far, they,ve done nothing to prove for the last 30 years they are capable.

As for me---I'm going to get some apples!

Happy apple Huntn'
Bruce