Need Expert advise

Silver Eagle · 03-02-2004, 06:05 PM

That should pre qualify all of you, anyway I want to know about "Floating a barrel" have a buddy that is going to Alaska on a Carobu hunt, has a 300 Weatherby and its all over the place, I think
the Barrel needs to be floated so you can run a piece of paper down it to the chamber, what is the reason for this........need your imput, also I have a sythtic stock Vanguard and it won't do it either do I need to do that to it....I mean carve out the area under where it is not floating, please any adive would be great...Ray

shedster · 03-02-2004, 06:34 PM

Ray You may not need to float the barrel, try the simple stuff first. Hand loads loaded too hot,bullet not seated proper,scope not mounted correctly or wont group the same after adjusting the power,things as simple as that can drive you nuts trying to finger out.... start a process of elimination with the simple stuff first.hope this helps .

tailchaser · 03-02-2004, 06:46 PM

I'm not a gunsmith or absolute experty by any means but to float a barrel means it gives the ability for the barrel to expand when it gets hot. If you're shooting multiple rounds (excess of 10 probably) then you're barrel will get pretty warm and start to expand a bit. If it doesn't have the ability to move a little and is screwed in tight it'll find ways to do it that negatively effect shooting. It could warp the barrel or any number of things that heat changes. Make sure your rings are properly fitted to the scope and laser sight the bore before target shooting to get it within a reasonable pattern before even firing a shot. A vise also helps when human error might come into play. I know I can only shoot my .300 about 5 times effectively before I find myself flinching a bit. If none of these work, check the scope to see if the springs might be loose internally.

tc

Water Ready · 03-02-2004, 07:29 PM

Nice! Very good advice from all. [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img] Sounds like re-loads. If not, and are factory, Clean the bore really good, try again. Still does'nt work---Float it! :smile: Luck of the Irish to ya, and Happy Huntin'

Silver Eagle · 03-03-2004, 06:07 AM

Shedster we kind of went thru all that, we match loaded 20 rounds, that means we weight sized and calibrated everything got a really good shooting bench and when he shot that 20 rounds started out with two just a little low right then as he started shooting the rest they went all over the board at a little over a hundred yards he could keep them within a five gallen bucket size. Scope tight, this is a veteren gun have seen the damage it can do. We are kind of thinking the barrel is about all that we can think of. We went back to factory sells but only want to shoot 10 they didn't do much better and at 40 a box didn't like the cost. So we decided maybe it was the noses, we loaded them up with Nosler Balistic tip, and have changed to Grand Slams, so maybe its coming out too hot but we loaded mid range about 3000fps so I'm not thinking its them but I have been kind of disappointed in them anyway even though they are Noslers. Will try these GS and see if not were going to take a dremel and releave some of the wood in the stock. I need to shoot the 7mm a little and see how it does. Since almost all the guns I have are Auto's (always want to shoot the whole herd) I only have a few bolts.
We were over in Easter Oregon last week-end but didn't go Horn Hunting should have, we were at Cresent the town not Junction, the girls drove up to La Pine Sat. said there was some guys with Quads and they had a bunch, probably from around Fort Rock or Silver Lake, they have closed a lot of roads over there because of the winter grounds but there is still a lot open. Well if anyone has anymore ideas Let me know........Ray

Grantspastor · 03-03-2004, 06:53 AM

There may be more serious issues that I'm not qualified to comment about, but I solved a similar (but not so bad) problem with a .338 by glass bedding it.

Killertraylor · 03-03-2004, 12:08 PM

Are you letting the barrel cool good between shots? Most of my guns start "wandering" when the barrel gets hot. When I'm shooting groups to decide on a load I always let the barrel cool 3-5 minutes between shots. Takes awhile, but it's the only way to get a good group.

Also, I've floated a few barrels. One time it worked and another it didn't. When it doesn't work, sometimes glass bedding will work. I recommend floating first because if it doesn't work, you can still have it glass bedded later. I just used regular sand paper on the stock until I could slide a dollar bill all the way up to the chamber.

If you still can't get it to shoot, I think you might need a new barrel. If this gun used to shoot well and hasn't had too many boxes through it, maybe the crown got nicked when it was being cleaned?

Good luck!

Joe

Erich_870 · 03-03-2004, 05:23 PM

If you go through all the steps others have suggested and your still not satisfied I would look into having it glass bedded. While the barrel will expand once you warm it up, the harmonics of the barrel is more important in my opinion. The barrel should be balanced so that it moves correctly during the time the bullet is inside, it should respond in a predictable manner. Proper glass bedding will "tune" your barrel so it�s free-floating up to the receiver and so that it's motions work with the bullet. If you chose to glass bed your gun, take it to someone who has a lot of experience.

My girlfriend's dad is asked all the time by guys to watch him glass bed their rifles so they can do it themselves on their next gun. He doesn't mind, but he tells them it will take 25-30 guns to get really good at it. I have watched and shot his glass bedded rifles and they shoot like we�re pounding nails. Her dad really knows his stuff. Has his degree in Gun Smithing. He was required to build, from scratch (milling barrels and more), 5 guns total for his degree. At the end of his 3 year program he had built 26 guns.
Can't wait to marry his girl, can you say wedding presents!

[ 03-03-2004, 06:27 PM: Message edited by: Erich_870 ]

Silver Eagle · 03-03-2004, 06:16 PM

Erich 870 need to know the difference between free floating and glass beading, I'm still trying to get this buddy the best chance he has on this hunt in Alaska I took a few off the self at Bi-mart and I couldn't get one to go with the Dollar bill thing, maybe they just don't care anymore, probably why there is so many in the "hock shops" oh forget that they are the one the druggies steal. Anyway let me know what the difference is, I told him to take a dremel and relieve it till he could slide a dollar to the receiver. Then I told him to reseal it so it wouldn't get water in there a swell, tell me the differance. Please Ray :whazzup:

Steelie King · 03-03-2004, 06:23 PM

I have to agree with the Grantspastor. Bedding is the problem I would look at. Let me know how it comes out.!!

James in Idaho · 03-04-2004, 07:41 AM

Weatherby mags are often hard to dial in. Have the chamber checked by a gunsmith, those rifles are famous for long throughts. (gee, that's not spelled right) Next batch of reloads, start playing with seating depth, longer is usually better in WM.

brshooter · 03-04-2004, 11:54 PM

When you say all over the place, how big of groups are you talking about?
First thing I would do is make sure that everything is tight. Bases, rings, screws that hold the receiver to the stock, etc. On the big belted mags, these can all work loose under recoil. Use locktite. If that doesn't improve things, I would get the rifle bedded (pillar or glass) and free float the barrel. Take those variables out of the picture. Make sure it is clean and not copper fouled. Allow the gun to cool between groups.
Handloads give you the ability to tune things even more. Lots of variables. No shortcut to finding the right combo. Just have to see what your gun likes. Start light, pay attention to seating depth, and watch for pressure signs.

2 bit Hook'r · 03-05-2004, 04:21 PM

Silver Eagle,
Here's the inside scoop on floating your tube! When the bullet and presurized gasses travel down the barrel it will cause the barrel to flex (alot).These vibrations can be severe. If your stock is fitted badly, causing side presure or "multiple" points of presure then floating or fully glass bedding can help. Most often, however, with sporting type rifles the best set-up is a single upward presure point at the very forend of the stock to dampen the vibrations and stabilize the barrel. First try to determine if you have multiple presure points by looking for shiney spots in the barrel chanel and rasp away any that are more than 1" from the tip of the stock. The next progression would be to bed the ACTION/RECIEVER (rather than barrel) into the stock using a glass bedding compound. It is very important for the recoil lug to have good support. More often than you might think, the action moves around during firing. Also, each bullet wieght and powder combination has it's own vibration pattern so try some other bullet wieghts 1 or 2 jumps heavier and lighter to see if your set-up has a favorite. It's always a bit of a crapshoot, but give it a go. Good luck, hope this helps.

brshooter · 03-05-2004, 06:52 PM

Silver Eagle,
Find yourself a copy of "The Accurate Rifle" by Warren Page. It was printed in 1973 but is the Holy Grail among benchrest shooters. A good read with tons of information. I know that you can order it through Precision Shooting magazine. Might try Amazon or even E-bay.

Lots of variables in getting a rifle to shoot. The rifle, the ammunition, bench technique, and conditions all contribute. Just have to try to eliminate as many of the human and mechanical variables as you can. Keep a log of all results.

Grip It-N-Rip It · 03-05-2004, 06:59 PM

Silver Eagle
What kind of a stock is on your buddies gun? I have a 340 Weatherby Alaskan and was having a problem much like you are descibing. My 340 came with the McMillan stock on it. What was happening with my gun is that it was pressure bedded in the factory. The best way I can explain it is this. When I shot it and it got warm the barrel was sticking to one side of the barrel or the other. When you went to shoot again the barrel was kind of in a bind already so it would shoot to the other side and be way off. It was all over the place and I was really disgusted with myself and my gun. Turns out when we put some powdered graphite in the crotch where it is pressure bedded that the barrel will always slide right back to where it belongs instead of sticking.
If this sounds like a bunch of hooey I'm sorry I am just trying to explain it in terms you can understand.
Further more there are several things you can do to get a gun to shoot. Clean out your barrel as it has been suggested is a good start. Clean it good and get it all out. Next fire a couple of fouling shots, then start shooting your groups. Trigger jobs seem to always help. If you are pulling a 5 lb trigger you will be amazed at how a group will shrink at 3 1/2 lbs.
Also you don't say if your gun is manufactured by Remington or Weatherby. How long is the barrel? What kind of shape is the gun in?
There are several things that can be done to the gun, it is just a matter of what you are willing to do. Keep us posted, will help if I can.
Just love those Weatherbys

[ 03-05-2004, 08:01 PM: Message edited by: Grip It-N-Rip It ]

Fish Hawg · 03-05-2004, 08:48 PM

I have had awesome luck with my remington sendero sf in a 300 ultra mag. It has a full length aluminum bedding block. How does that compare with a glass beded gun

. The barrel is full floating.

brshooter · 03-06-2004, 12:43 AM

Fish Hawg,
The full length aluminum bedding block is great. The block is cnc machined to fit the receiver. No need for glass bedding. A few of the stock makers will offer stocks with full length bedding blocks for some of the common actions like the Rem 700, Win 70, Ruger 77, etc.
It's not practical for the average joe to use a full length bedding block unless the stock was manufactured with one. That leaves glass bedding or pillar bedding as the options. The majority of the benchrest rifles are pillar bedded now. Not many glue-in's left out there now.