Dog Problem----- Help

flyjunky · 02-26-2004, 01:18 PM

I'm having a problem with my 9 month old yellow lab. When we go out to practice some retrieving he will go out and get the dummy but he now wants to run around with it instead of bringing it back to me. Sometimes he will go out and get it then run away and drop it. I can't figure out why this is happening because if we happen to play this inside the house he will do whatever I ask of him but once outside things change. Help.... what can I do?

Fish Hawg · 02-26-2004, 01:38 PM

When My dog was that age he would do good in the house. If I took him outside he wanted to run around, chase birds Ect. I just had to limit the Distractions, and not over work him. I made each session a little longer each time. He retrives good now. That worked for me; I'm no pro Just My $0.02

He Might have ADD :grin: :tongue: ....Ross

Wetwrk2 · 02-26-2004, 01:41 PM

I'd getcha a copy of Tritronics Retriever Training by Dobbs. Then I'd purchase a quality e-collar. Don't be pushed off by the cruelty crap..if you do it right on the minimal amount of settings to compel compliance its a super, super aid for beginner trainers. I tried all the other books they are alright if you have a super understanding of dogs and training, but me as a beginner and got my hands on a good e-collar. I had never trained a hunting dog before, and with a ton of training and mostly the book I trained myself a rock-steady "Chessie!" If I managed to train a chessie from the ground up, without screwing her up by too much e-collar, I'd bet you could crank out a great Lab too, as they are normally not as bull-headed. I'd say yer pup is just showing off, but it might be a obedience deal too. Its so hard to read a problem without seeing it and the distractions too. I'm no way, no how a expert trainer but my chessie shines and does me proud to the point I don't feel funny about hunting her with other dogs or hunters....and thats the goal. If other folks want to hunt with you and your dog, not just you ya trained up a good dog.- Sorry I couldn't help more.- Seth Freeman
ps. I don't use a e-collar anymore...got rid of it as soon as my dog figured out her job he-he-he

k9jeff · 02-26-2004, 01:48 PM

Its a problem with obedience. The e collar will work, and I use them regularly. Start with a long line (its cheaper) and work on the "come" using a lot of praise and light corrections.
You might want to take some classes if you are inexperienced, they will pay off big time in the long run.

[ 02-26-2004, 02:49 PM: Message edited by: k9jeff ]

fishinpoor · 02-26-2004, 01:56 PM

flyjunky,this is very commen,usually we are the cause of this behavior,taking his bumper too soon after he returns,you have to remember that is HIS and we have to let him know it's ok to come back to us,a couple of things to try.1st run from him calling him to you keeping it very exciting,never and i mean never chase him to get the bumper,if you do he will think this is part of the game.2nd get a 40-50 foot check cord,throw the bumper,send him and then gently guide him back to you saying here ,don't worry if he drops(he will)continue to do this , after enough reps he will realize coming is no longer an option but a command that must be obeyed.you can use the check cord without the retrieve,let him wander around and when he is distracted tug gently at the same time telling him here,that is the way we reinforce all of our dogs on the here command.if you have any more questions feel free to e-mail me.i am a pro trainer in kfalls................fishinpoor

fishinpoor · 02-26-2004, 02:05 PM

after we condition him with the check cord we switch to an e-collar,leave the check cord on the first few times,call him at the same time use stimulation as soon as he turns let off the button if he stops or refuses to come get back on the button.after a few reps we take the dog out for a walk,let him get away from you and say here at the same time you apply stimulation as soon as he turns let off,we call this bending the dog,the key is timing,as soon as the dog makes an effort to turn and come off the button,use low level on collar we see no need to fry the dog.hope this helps

Rauly · 02-26-2004, 02:47 PM

Sounds like an obedience problem. Not to say that you don't have an obedient dog. Never play keep away with your dog. I have always tried to teach my dogs that the bumpers are MINE not theirs, and it is fun to bring MY bumper back to me directly. I am no pro but have had fun training my dogs.

Get involved in one of the local retriever clubs, they have great training days and you will gain a lot of good information.

Rauly

flyjunky · 02-26-2004, 03:01 PM

Thanks for all the good info guys. I bought a 30 foot check cord today and I'll use that. I was already thinking about getting a e-collar, any suggestions on brand/model I should get. I'll be using it just for this one dog, I don't need all the bells and whistles.

edsr · 02-26-2004, 03:02 PM

That dog will never be any good. Where you at, I'll come over and get him and save you the terrible embarassment of his bad behavior when retrieving.

He is cute,right, also, big is good. Be gentle but firm never loose your temper. Persistence and time will pay-off. Keep the sessions short and positive as mentioned. I really need a dog.
edsr

SalmonSeason · 02-26-2004, 03:17 PM

Use a check cord/rope about 25-75ft is plenty. Use it to train him to COME to you or HERE what ever you want as your command. Then move up to the E collar and go away from the check cord my .02

SalmonSeason · 02-26-2004, 03:20 PM

As for E collars I have a DT and it's simple. The simpler versions that have a min. of 1/2 mile or so is plenty especially for a lab. I have min. of 1 mile ability (not that the dog is allowed to go that far

) but I have a pointer and a lab. The pointer is allowed and trusted at a greater distance. Cabela's has a fair listing of collars

Boedy · 02-26-2004, 03:30 PM

Tritronics or Dogtra.. thats it..

Hoosier Daddy · 02-26-2004, 03:41 PM

Have you tried jogging away from him as he brings it back?

Fish Hawg · 02-26-2004, 03:42 PM

I have Tritronics clasic 70 two dog model. Also a friend has the same one he uses it for his hounds. It works Awesome 1 mile range 1-5 power setings. I don't need more than 3 when my 120# lab chases the neighbors cat. It stoped him on a dead run. Now he just looks at them and drools. :grin:

Wetwrk2 · 02-26-2004, 04:10 PM

As much as it pinches I'd get a quality e-collar.
Tritronics, DT, and Dogtra I've heard good things about. Collars aren't cheap...search e-bay, and there's some companies that referbish old collars and that might be a good place to check. Try to get one with a "nick" feature...its a momentary shock. It helps a lot for stuff ya just want to remind'em on. No sense in "blasting" a pup for little corrections...the big shock is for "major" corrections. And most modern collars have a cut off feature after about 10 seconds in case the button is accidentally held down say in yer pocket...man that'd suck huh..yer pup starts "ki-yi-ing" for no reason and yer sitting on the transmitter. I even went and built a training table for my dog...I just wanted to do it all right all the way through and it payed off in spades. My buddies dog..well we don't hunt together anymore but his dog was a nightmare!!! It wined and barked anytime birds came our way. It broke for the water if ya even lifted yer gun up. It pulled the front off our piano blind one day cause some birds swung in. We just raised our guns to shoot and "crash" the whole darn front of the blind tore off and headed out into the decoys, brush and chicken wire flying all over. My dog was still sitting in her "place" just outside the blind and didn't even stand up. She just sat there watching the flared birds headed south. Its funny now, especially what the ducks must have seen..he-he-he! But I was chapped. That was our last outing with his "no-break retriever". Ya his dog didn't get the extra time it should have. My pup was my first dog..and I wanted her to turn out right the first time. I kept in constant contact with the breeders so any hick-ups I had in the training I could talk to them about.-Seth

Tilla · 02-26-2004, 05:36 PM

E collars are great , I own 3. But unless you your dogs know his basics the collar won't do a thing for you. You know your dog can retrieve ,Right? So whats your point practicing his marking at 9 months. You might be burning your dog out. Marks at that age should be a special treat. Until you have enforced the foundations of here, heel, sit, stay your just whistling dixie.
Marking training can wait until after you have the basics down first. I know it's more fun but, everytime he ignores your command he's blowing you off because you let him get away with it AND HE KNOWS IT.
Train to give the command once!

Labsforme · 02-27-2004, 05:24 AM

Get good training books or tapes(Lardy,Evan Graham Smartworks,Dahl,Jackie Mertens)work on basic obedience and develop your pup.Force fetch will be the foundation of all your training.Yard work first,make sure pup understands then look at getting a good collar.All of the above sources will help you in applying pressure at the right time.Above all else love them and have fun.

fishinpoor · 02-27-2004, 07:39 AM

good points given by everyone,obediance is #1,get a reliable here,heel,sit,stay.then go on to field work,i know it gets boring to do nothing but basic obediance,but it must be rock solid,commands are to be obeyed at once,give command once then if disobeyed reinforce the 2nd one.the other pro i work with taught me to never give a command that you can't or won't reinforce,don't nag the dog,expect him to obey or be corrected,our clients expect rock solid dogs when they go home in the fall,so we make darn sure basic obediance is so deeply imbedded that they don't know how to blow you off without a penalty.also time is on your side,keep working slow and steady,remember to ALWAYS keep it fun for you and the dog.it will happen and then you can be proud of him and yourself.............fishinpoor [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]

kenai · 02-27-2004, 10:32 AM

Sounds like some excellent advice. I'm working on obedience with my 3 mo old chessie and am anxious to move on. We have some of the same retrieve problems in the backyard as well. I'll stay with the obedience and try the check cord. When is a good age to begin more formal training for this guy? I'd like to at least have the obedience down before I take him to the pro's for some serious work.

k9jeff · 02-27-2004, 03:41 PM

Tritronics for an e collar. Great customer service. THey cost a bit more, but I have sent mine back for repair and they replaced it with no charge.

You have to walk before you can run. Keep in mind, if you do not have a STRONG foundation on basic obed, then the E collar will do more harm than good. Know what you are doing with it before you use it. Use the check line for a while and see if that will work. Remember, right after any correction, there muse be a lot of praise within seconds of the correction so the dog gets the idea. This includes a recall.

Its a good idea to revisit basic obed on a regular basis. The stong foundation will make all the difference.

Good luck, you have your work cut out, but it will pay off in the long run.

K9

fishinpoor · 02-27-2004, 11:12 PM

KENAI,it depends on the dog as far as when to start formal training,it's always best to have basic obediance firmly entrenched,sit,stay etc.also it's best if the dog has been forced fetched,then you have the tools if the dog refuses to hold,retrieve and so on.you must wait until permenent teeth are in to do this,usually 6-7 months old,forcefetch will solve all kinds of problems,you can still throw fun bumpers and i encourage you to do so,just don't get too upset at the dog if he/she drops or refuses to retrieve,i have a 16 week old pup retrieving pigeons(live,clipped wing and chuckers)she doesn't always come straight back with them,but we encourage her and don't get upset if she drops,that training is a ways off yet,but it's a good idea to keep them excited with retrieves while we continue to work on basic fundamentals,too much control over a young dog can dampen their desire,so keep it light and fun for now........good luck.....have fun............DAVE :grin:

roundtuit97128 · 02-27-2004, 11:53 PM

Two issues are causing one problem... The Basic obedience commands, (Sit, stay, Come, Heel etc...) are being overlooked. I agree the pup is trying to play and then when you're in the training mode, the pup can't differentiate the change. I had the same problem with a Golden a few years ago... My solution was to never use the same device for training and for play. I got him used to staying put, then await a command to "Cast" him after the dummy (Which was well hidden--and progressively more so) I always gave him a good sniff before we began. When he'd find it and head back, I would command,"Come" and pat my thigh. When he got to me, "Heel" then, "Sit" and finally, "Give." Finally, he was always praised after completeing the tasks... Dogs probably are born with more hunting ability than we'll ever have. What we can do is offer control, which makes for a better companion. Currently, I'm working two male Pointer's. Getting used to the over-the-horizon tendencies is a challenge, but the harmony of a good hunt makes the dog worthwhile. Repetition and patience beats an e-coller.

blackdog · 02-27-2004, 11:55 PM

I am currently working my way through Evan Graham's book and highly recommend it!! When my 6 yo BLM was a pup, I had only read Richard Wolters and am sorry now I didn't have more exposure to Graham, Lardy, etc. The more you read and learn the better.

My only pieces of advice would be to keep you pup on the check cord until he's rock solid (regarding obedience), even when there are other distractions (other dogs, cats, birds, etc.) around. Also, don't introduce the e-collar until this is the case. They are to be used to reinforce commands that are understood, not teach new ones.

Good luck! Unfortunately you can't get that pup age back until you get a new one, but darned their a lot of fun at that age.