Seamens Manslaughter(Sidney May II)

[sturgn]

Anyone ever heard of this law?

Seamen's manslaughter

Blah now it wants me to register!

[EULACHON]

I have heard of the law it is like several in the US that are "on the books" but not readily used.

I don't post on this board a ton but my wonder is why they have all the sudden decided to use it .

Paul

[Hammer Down]

Talk about piling it on.

In this one guy's opinion there are times to make examples of situations...

...but I don't think this is one of them.

[skein]

Yes, it's sad - for all; the folks who lost their lives, the folks left behind, the the ones who must now carry this load for the rest of their lives.

No matter how this turns out, the skipper has sentenced himself to life - regardless of what we or the courts say.

All we can do is learn from this.

Skein

[Herring Problem]

I was sitting in the dark, wondering how long before he would be charged. Now the hard case will start for him.
Sorry for all of his and the families loses due to this accident. He was and is still a good boat Capt. in my book. Accidents happen!

[CAPT KUJO]

I have heard of the law it is like several in the US that are "on the books" but not readily used.

I don't post on this board a ton but my wonder is why they have all the sudden decided to use it .

Paul

They wish to prove a point. You refuse to obey the orders of the United States Coast Guard (not just bar crossings) on anything and you risk going to jail! They have books of laws you've never heard of unless you're an laywer specializing in Admiralty Law.

I'm praying for CAPT RICH! He needs support more now than ever!

[SnowDog]

Seems to me that this is probably the right thing for the government to do. What if he was a school bus driver and ran a red light killing several students? People would demand a vehicular manslauter charge at the minimum.

I'm sure the Capt. is a nice person, but if you ignore a bar closing or a traffic light you are in the wrong.

Regards,
SA

[PATRICK 11-14]

I wasn't there, and don't know the capt, BUT I really hate to say it but if all the evidence that has been presented is found true, then may they throw the book at him for not cherishing life!! As a capt. of any vessel, the moment that someone walks onto your vessel, they are intrusting their life with you, and expect you to do what is right to bring them back safe. There were way to many boo boos that started the domino effect, one that he could not get out of. Makes someone think that these actions were not a one time thing. I know we are all human and make mistakes, but....I know I'm going to get flamage again for this, but after witnessing the Taki-too 1st hand, the sights, sounds, etc... it will always be etched in my mind and the decisions I make out on the big blue!!! He will have to live with those actions taken and that is a sentence bad enough, but like I said..if found guilty I hope he doesn't get his licence renewed 4 life!!!'
Just my
Patrick 11-14~

[Popeye]

Patrick....It's people with quick judgemental calls like yours that's making me sell my boat.
No ONE is guilty before proven so.
I have spent half of my adult life, taking people fishing....on MY boat....My expense!

I'm not saying Anything about Rich's case.

All I'm saying is.....Have you ever made a mistake?
Are YOU as human as the rest of us?

I think it was Skein, that said he had already committed himself to a life sentence.

Do YOU really think he did this with intent!

Bruce A Marler

[jimh]

Popeye, not necessarily about this case, but just because you didn't mean to doesn't mean you aren't guilty. For example, if I speed but I don't mean to, I still get a ticket.

[Hillbilly]

halibut fishing is right arround the corner! I just know the Ocean will lay down in a few days or weeks. We will soon be focused on better things.

[Cloud-Nine]

Why is anyone discussing this, except to learn from it and be a better captain. None of us were there, we don't know the weather conditions or what the danger was of proceding to Charleston. I do know Rich and have been a passenger on his boat several times. The last thing I would do is to try to second guess him or challenge his judgment. I don't know what happened and maybe Rich dosn't even know. It happened, it was a tragedy and it will never go away.
Lets just drop any discusssion as to his actions, as none of us really know and stick to how we can learn.
Thanks
Dick

[Popeye]

JimH...The reality of this tragedy is that it happened at sea. It was not speeding.....not drunk driving...not wreckless driving...not falling asleep at the wheel....not road rage...AND...Not disobeying the law (UNLESS PROVEN OTHERWISE!)

Rich Oba had over 30 years experience as a "Master Operator".
He had probably more experience, in hours on the sea, than all of us combined.
I have absolutely NO problem learning from his experience, (At HIS expense), and niether should you, or anyone else.

If your father was accused of murdering someone, would you automatically believe the authorities? I'm SURE that you would stand behind him while the inquiry developed, and in that case....I'm pretty sure you'd still be there even if it went the other way.
That's far fetched, to say the least, but I'm only trying to make a point.

Rich Oba has been a FRIEND & SPONSER to ifish.
We leave NO DOG BEHIND!!!!

If it turns out that he is convicted of this negligence....we are all on our own.

Thank You!

[jimh]

Popeye, I was just pointing out that meaning to or not didn't matter. I have no opinion on guilt or innocence, and obvously, my opinion wouldn't matter any way.

[2nd Gen.]

Post deleted by 2nd Gen.

[Bonita]

Okay, I'll probably get flamed, but here's my
As reported by KGW (I know, it's the media):
[WINCHESTER BAY, Ore. -- Two weeks after a federal safety agency blamed an Oregon ship captain for a deadly capsizing, federal prosecutors charged the man with criminal "seaman's manslaughter."]
With a federal agency blaming him, there seems to be some element of guilt already there - NOT to say that he should or should not be found guilty of manslaughter. But, it is my understanding that when the bar is closed, you stay out. If you decide you want to chance the crossing, you do it with mandatory PFD's for EVERYONE onboard, maybe it's an unwritten rule or just common sense.
I don't know the man, and obviously I wasn't there. But, by law it doesn't matter if there was intent. MANSLAUGHTER, in fact, usually indicates that the situation was accidental in some way. I know of cases where a car wreck results in prison time because someone died - in an accident. The punishment doesn't fit the crime, but it is still a crime.

[Popeye]

You are wrong. Rich has not held a Masters license for 30 years, Not even close. If you said five years you would be quite a bit closer to the mark.

2nd Generation.......................................
I have more than thirty years experience.

My point wasn't that he had been a "Master" for thirty years, only that he was a "Master" with thirty years experience.
My last bar crossing was complicated.

I decided that I didn't want to risk life anymore.
Not that I felt Incompetent, but that I didn't feel comfortable with it anymore.

The ocean can give, and it can take.

Rich did this for a living.

I did it for pleasure......My boat, My expense.

I don't know you, but I would be willing to bet that YOU don't have the same experience as I.



Why don't you find out facts before you make such strong statements. I have been biting my tongue reading these posts but the fiction needs to stop.

Buddy.....The facts ARE, that....... If you've never crossed a nasty bar.....YOU have nothing to say.

[San Anita]

My prayers go out to the skipper. Is there anything we can do to help?
Bill

[crabbait]

Judgements are for Judges, folks. There are inconsistencies in the stories of those involved and Capt Obo has the right to tell his side in court and to be presumed innocent until a Judge makes a ruling.

Let's use this opportunity to learn form the mistakes of a fellow seaman rather than attempt to condemn him based on half-known facts and assumptions.

[2nd Gen.]

Buddy.....The facts ARE, that....... If you've never crossed a nasty bar.....YOU have nothing to say.

Well I have crossed more than my share of nasty bars so I guess I have your permission to say something, eh?

I don't have the same experience as you. I have been "working" on Charters for over 27 years. I have held a Masters license for 22 years. My parents ran charters before I was born and I was involved in it my entire life. My "hours at sea" as you put it will total more than both you and Rich combined easily.

I deleted my post to avoid debate with you, but somehow you were able to quote it anyway. Your still wrong. If we continue this you will no doubt make more statements that are not correct.

[Bendman]

Well I have crossed more than my share of nasty bars so I guess I have your permission to say something, eh?

I don't have the same experience as you. I have been "working" on Charters for over 27 years. I have held a Masters license for 22 years. My parents ran charters before I was born and I was involved in it my entire life. My "hours at sea" as you put it will total more than both you and Rich combined easily.

Well now that’s a pretty bold statement. What port are you out of? I’ve read and reread your post and for the life of me I can’t figure out what your trying to say

Judgements are for Judges, folks. There are inconsistencies in the stories of those involved and Capt Obo has the right to tell his side in court and to be presumed innocent until a Judge makes a ruling.

Let's use this opportunity to learn form the mistakes of a fellow seaman rather than attempt to condemn him based on half-known facts and assumptions.

Popeye, Haven't seen you around very much lately. Aren’t you glad to be back? Welcome back :grin: :grin:

[newfly]

this is a sad case and i am sorry for the captain and for the passengers.

as to assuming his guilt, you guys are really off the mark. i don't read any of this as assuming his guilt. stop being so defensive, it does not serve you, the captain or the deceased people with any dignity at all.

he was the captain of a boat that sunk and lives were lost. according to the investigation, he did what he was told not to do and that resulted in the tragedy. it does not mean that he is guilty of the charges but it certainlly does mean that he should answer to the charges.. that is what a trial is about. it does mean that there is substantial evidence against him. whether or not it is enough to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, is yet to be seen. i applaud the law in this case for bringing him forward to answer to the charges and i will listen to what both he and the prosecutor have to say.

accidents do happen, but to simply discard these deaths with that statement is a sad comment and shows very little respect to humanity, to truth or justice or to our system of law.

i am sure that the captain was a good man. i have read many accounts that say so. he is not on trial to see if he was a good man but whether he made culpible decisions that cost people their lives in this one situation. you have tell me how that is unfair. lives were lost. it is reasonable to inquire as to whether or not they needed to be lost and if not, was there criminal action that caused it. that is and always has been our system of law.

[2nd Gen.]

Well said newfly.

[skein]

Nicely said, Newfly. Thanks.

Just for the record, we've had several members ask us to lock or move this thread - and that was before it started turning into a "I said - he said" morass. We don't want to do that. We feel there needs to be some discussion even though there is very little to add at this point.

The only good that can come out of this, if there's ever any "good" in a tragedy, is what we can learn from it to keep ourselves and our loved ones safe. I suspect for example there will be more PFD's worn while crossing the bars, and that alone will probably save some lives.

That's where we need to focus our attentions.

Skein

[2nd Gen.]

PFD's are critically important in hazardous conditions but hopefully as a result this and other "incidents" will bring safe bar crossing policies to the forefront of all boaters thoughts.

If you are able to avoid the hazard to begin with that is the safest course obviously.

[Mr. Fisherman]

Rich needs our support.
I would ask that anyone who has been on his boat as a client or a guest offer your testament as to what safety briefing was conducted before departure and any information that would shed light for the defense as to his safe operation of his vessel.

One lesson we can all take away from this horrible event is that you just never know with certainty what the conditions are going to do. You must be prepared to stay out in less than favorable conditions or have the fuel to make it safely to an alternate port.

Take this to heart. It is easy to push the limits when chasing Tuna. There have been several stories about running in on fumes and the like. Fish are not worth it.

No opinion or judgment can make Rich feel any worse than I am sure he already does. I am pretty disappointed to see this turn of events. I am afraid it will not be the end of the story either. Words can not express how bad I feel for Rich or those involved.

I would ask that before you post to this thread or any other involving this case you take a minute to walk in the shoes of those who were there and consider how you would respond to reading what you are about to post. While it is paramount that we take the lessons from this tragedy we should go above and beyond to CAUSE NO FURTHER HARM TO THOSE WHO WERE THERE.

If you want to kick your dog in your house that is your business but don't do it here.

Ray Taber

[Nalu]

Very eloquently said Newfly. Thank you.

I'll be keeping Rich and his family, as well as the families of those lost in my thoughts and prayers to give them all strength in this difficult time.

[Spoonplugger]

Mr. Fisherman,

Well said and I agree 100%. Thanks for those comments!

Jerry Crofoot

[BigWaterBigFish]

Well said Newfly ...
It is in federal court and the Capt has pleaded innocent. Once trial is set and all the evidence is presented, then we will have the public record to reveiw and evaluate for ourselves.
As we say in my fellowship, "we look to keep our own side of the street cleaned up" ... with the recent occurences on bar crossings and being able to get information on some of the civil settlements in the wrongful death claims by passengers on both charter and private vessels that have gone done, I started the New Year this way:
- made sure my boat insurance and PLUP (Personal Liability Umbrella Policy) were in force and what the specifics of what they cover - FYI - if you are taking passengers out fishing on your boat, charter or not, and don't have $1M backing you, you are underinsured.
- Reviewed my USCG required equipment and ditchbag for it's completeness and condition, is everything in working order and within reach. Can I explain to a newcomer how to use what to save themselves?
- from the trailer hitch to the skeg, from cleat to cleat and jib to keel, I have gone over my boat to make sure there isn't anything that needs repair or replacing
- went over my batteries, electronics and the backups ... for each necessary item I have a backup (main engine - kicker; deck compass - handheld; Fishfinder/GPS - handheld Magellan; Deckmounted VHF - handheld VHF; deadman switch electric bilge pump - manual pump; etc)
- have been taking a few pages to read each day, Chapman's - Power Squadron - USCG Aux Crewman's Guide (just about every day I am learning that I know less and less)
Mr. Fisherman was right, we never know when the conditions will turn but if they do, I know that the weak link between disaster and safety will be me and only me in my ability to make decisions in the face of conditions.

[Phil Layer]

Per Mister Fisherman’s suggestion:

1. I have fished with Captain Rich. It was an enjoyable and safe experience. I was briefed on safety issues prior to the boat leaving the dock. I was shown where the life jackets were even though I had brought my own. I had planned on scheduling another tuna trip with Rich just before this happened. If Rich still guided, I would not hesitate to sail with him again.
2. Of all the charters I have fished with, Rich ran the cleanest and, in my opinion, safest boat.
3. I am a fervent supporter of a law to require charter clients to wear lifejackets while crossing a bar. I think it differs from requiring motorcycle helmets and seat belts in that many clients (Oklahomans, North Dakotans, etc.) have no clue of the danger they may be facing. Most motorcycle riders and car drivers do. Unless we require captains to describe the danger to the client so they can make an educated decision, we should require that they wear life jackets (in my opinion). Until we do that, how can we blame these captains for not requiring their clients to wear them?
4. Taki Too clients should have been wearing life jackets. Sydney May clients should have been wearing life jackets. See item 3!

As to learning and becoming better captains, I garner the following from this incident:

1. In worsening conditions, don life jackets.
2. In heavy fog, do not get too close to the bar
3. Frequently test auto-inflating life jackets
4. Remember that regardless of your experience and education, there is that wave that can take you down at a moment’s notice. Be prepared for that wave but also be prepared for not being prepared for that wave!

My prayers and thoughts are with those lost, their families and Rich and his family. This is a terrible tragedy that could happen to any of us. If you think otherwise, you probably should stick to the rivers and lakes.

[Nalu]

It has been asked that we not debate right/wrong in this post, and I agree.

In such, posts that are for lack of better word, "defending" actions of the incident should probably not be posted if posts that are "accusatory" shouldn't be.

Phil- I respect you opinion, but is it possible that perhaps you may consider editing #5 so those that see it different than you may not feel the need to debate? Just a thought.

[Wild bill show]

I just got my hair cut by a woman who lost two of her brothers on the tikiII. One's still not been found.She asked if i had a boat? i said ya a small one. She asked do you wear you Life Jacket? I said hardly ever. She then asked that I learn something from that tradgedy that took her two brothers lives. Then i get home and read this. No longer will they ( lifejackets) Be stuck in the bottom of my live well.
WBS

[Phil Layer]

Phil- I respect you opinion, but is it possible that perhaps you may consider editing #5 so those that see it different than you may not feel the need to debate? Just a thought.

Done.

[Bendman]

On my boat the first thing I do is make everyone on board put on his or her life jacket. They make sure it’s adjusted to fit them and make sure there is nothing wrong with the jacket. It’s up to them if they want to leave it on or not. At that point everyone is assigned a seat and if they wish to take off their life vest it is put on the back of his or her chair. So incase the worst should happen they grab their vest not someone else’s.

The next thing I do is instruct them how to use the GPS and the radio so incase something should happen to me they can call the CG and or find their way home.

[Aqua-Holic]

IMHO.....I think due to recent events and the ensueing investigations, we as owners/operators of sport/recreation boats, Captains if you will, should in some cases take our responsibility to crew and passengers more seriously. It's all to easy to leave the dock not fully prepared as to the mechanical condition of our boats, electronics checked, safety gear checked, etc. I also feel, as Captain Kujo eluded to on another thread, that because we are operators of sport boats, most without the training and drilling of a licensed Captain, that those of you who are "boat hos" should be somewhat responsible for your own safety. Don't be so eager to just hop on a boat to get a fishing trip in.
Along with your lunch, tackle and bait get a good PFD that is comfortable and fits. Ask questions.
Very possibly this incident will make us all more responsible and safe.
Stuff does happen out there!

[KChookem]

The wheels are in motion, and I'm going to let this matter run its course before I presume guilt or innocense.

Having spent nearly 40 years in Public Safety/Law Enforcement, I've learned several things, including:

1. Get both sides of the story before forming an conclusion . I could not begin to guess the number of times I've said to myself, "that SOB's going to jail", but when I got the other side of the story, my initial plan changed.

2. Get the facts, and all facts possible ; newspaper articles and press releases do not give all the facts, by any stretch of the imagination, and often their wording is misleading. Even official "summary" reports do not give all the information; for example, the USCG report I read on Ifish was only a few pages, but I would be very surprised if their full report does not comprise one or more large 3-ring binders of statements, audio tapes, maps, and charts.

3. If it gets that far, a Judge and/or Jury will make the determination, but only after hearing both sides, and examining all the evidence presented from both sides. If a person is guilty, they have the opportunity to assess the degree of fault or negligence.

If I knew any of those personally involved, and I wanted to support them, I would send a card or note. The moral support can work wonders for a persons morale, self-esteem, physical and mental health.

Best Wishes to All...

[bajadan2000]

My thoughts and support to the families of all involved. This has changed lives forever.

The sea beautiful. She is fluid and everchanging. Sometimes she will take a shape that is unbelievable to those that see it. I have witnessed seas that lure me into a trance with beauty, and others that can only be explained as normal one minute, and 2 seconds later be life threatenly dangerous, than back to normal all within a minute or two. I believe the sea can swallow a boat whole in seconds on a calm day in the daylight. What the Sea will do at night in challenging conditions, I could not even begin to imagine.

I have seen sevaral things at sea that I can only describe to you as mysteries. I am only one more mystery sighting away from beaching myself. Maybe this accident is one of those mysteries. Be Safe.

[Joe Schwab]

I don't post here often but I can add this. We have all, knowingly, out of ignorance or through sheer necessity to get home alive pushed the envelope.

I have held a Master's license for ten years and have well over 30 years of experience both on and off the job.

All I will say is "there but for the grace of God go we." Popeye, I agree with everything you said and decided a number of years ago to limit my trips on the blue.

I know I would have a difficult time dealing with a tragedy like this. I'll pray for Rich. No judgements.

[Smoked Salmon]

I'm glad this thread has been left open for discussion, and as an underexperienced sailor I'm learning some things. Besides the obvious need to encourage all boaters to wear PFD's while crossing the bar (every time in all conditions) it seems the other key thing is to encourage use of VHF radios.

Another thread is discussing ranges of VFH, which is great, but I think it is also important to not be shy about using it and especially checking with the CG about bar conditions. I'm sure they would rather spend 2 minutes on the radio than 2+ hours conducting a search. A radio check seems like a decent exercise to make sure the equipment is working correctly.

I trust that the Captain will have plenty of folks supporting him during this trial, "leave no dog behind" includes when our friends are on dry land.

Bill

ps. yes, it will be great when the ocean clams (of course I meant calms, but it was too funny to remove) and the rods are back in the holders. Fish on!!!

[No Bail]

I think it is safe I don't know anything about crossing bars, but am trying to learn.

What have I learned?

I try to point out the safety items on board.

VHF, GPS, Radar, dual bilge pumps are all good things. I like the Coast Guard.

I bought an Icom handheld that will be attached to my bar vest.

Bar vest? That is right, I have SOSpenders that I wear, but after another incident with loss of life, I bought a couple type one vests that are my bar vests.

Those bar vests have attached strobes.

The bar vests have small flares attached.

I wish I had enough cash for two radios, but sorry, I get that on my vest.

If anyone but my brother comes along, better bring your own bar vest, as mine are apoken for. Bar vest is synonomous with the 'oh darn' situation vest.

All this to simply say that I think I've learned something from reading these kind of threads. Thanks for letting it ride.

[Gundog]

I have been reading all the info on this accident and I have a few comments like everyone else. It sounds like he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. I have read the reports and his letter and I feel like he is probably dieing inside, I know I would be. If I am to believe his explanation he was not trying to cross the bar but coming in to see if they were going to lift the restriction. Any of us that have been on the ocean know they close and open bars sometimes frequently. I try to put myself in his shoes he made one mistake for sure and that was not having everyone in there lifejackets easy from our view but he might have been very busy with his thought process and overlooked this (my guess). The transportation report says he argued or defied the Coast Guard’s instructions he says he did not, none of us know. I am not saying one side is lying and the other side is not but both sides may have interpreted the situation and information differently this is common in accidents of all kinds. I don’t wish to judge Rich it will not do anything for anyone. I will be interested in how the court case goes hopefully it will be made public after it is all complete. There may yet be more lessons here to be learned from this accident. This was a plain tragedy to everyone involved, that there is no question.
GD

[Pilar]

Don't know what to add here. Like many of you I will keep Rich and the others affected by this sinking in mind. Especially when I cross the bar with friends on board.

Can you win the liability arms race with insurance? Doesn't it seem that the responsibilities of the guy driving the boat are pretty daunting, at least in terms of liability?

These are things to think about before taking chances.

One last thing to reflect on is something I have taken from this whole thing. We, the salty dogs have been so fortunate not to have any serious or deadly incidents for all the trips we have taken. Hopefully this will continue.

We would all do well to think about these things before deciding to go out in marginal or deteriorating conditions. We would all do well and respect the memory of those lost and those now suffering by thinking about this situation when preparing and operating our boats.

I know I will.

[avid]

I haven't posted to Ifish in regards to this incredible tragedy up till now.

The news today is like throwing salt into an open wound so I have to say something on Rich's behalf. I fished with Rich at least a dozen times in all kinds of weather and always felt totally safe. I never saw Rich leave the dock without a safety briefing, period. On several occasions Rich had everyone don life jackets on our way out or returning as conditions merited. I have watched as Rich timed an open Umpqua bar with ten foot rollers on regular intervals and felt the power of the Sydney Mae while she stayed right where she needed to be. I helped stand watch while three of us and two radars helped pick our way throught dense fog. I have stood on shore days when Rich declined to go fishing due to bad conditions.

Rich was a safe and very skillful Captain and great fisherman. If the seas were as reported I can imagine that everybody on board was seasick and needing to get ashore. How the whole thing happened I can't even imagine. Even if Rich is convicted, and I pray he isn't, it can't change my experience of Rich's skill and expertise. How many other fishermen with years of experience and loads of knowledge have been involved in accidents? More than we want to count.

Ginger and I had spoken just days before the accident when I called to check on everybody at Pacific Pioneer and I wonder if the guy from Idaho ended up on the Sydney Mae because of posts I have made here or at Allcoast, where as some of you know, Rich and I moderated a lightly used PNW fishing forum. I have incredible sadness for the lost lives and their loved ones.

Rich worked hard to do everything right it's still almost inconceivable to me that this happened.

David

[Spoonplugger]

If my memory serves me correctly I believe that Capt. Rich in his comments said that it was a "rogue wave" that hit the Sidney May II. We have no control over "rogue waves" since they occur as only one wave in possibly thousands.

I remember one time in the mid-eighties that a friend was with me out of Depoe Bay and among about 8 to 10 foot swells a monster wave about 20 or more feet all of a sudden appeared. It didn't break but it was very steep. I had a 21' dory and the wave was at least as high as my boat was long.

We just need to prepare as best we can for the unexpected. Unforeseen occurrences can befall us all.

[bajadan2000]

I remember one time in the mid-eighties that a friend was with me out of Depoe Bay and among about 8 to 10 foot swells a monster wave about 20 or more feet all of a sudden appeared. It didn't break but it was very steep. I had a 21' dory and the wave was at least as high as my boat was long.

I had just the opposite happen. Had a huge hole in the water open up in front of me. Almost like the movie scene were Moses parts the Sea. I made a quick turn to starboard and just missed going in. Everyone on board agreed that if we had gone in, no way we were coming out with the boat. It would have been swallowed up. It was just an average good fishing day. Not too sporty. My theory is it had something to do with the irregular bottom and tides. I had been over that spot a 100 times and now I go around it. One of my mysteries at sea. Be safe. (This was in Baja, not in the NW)

[Sweepy]

While commercial Salmon trolling south of Eureka, I was hit by a freak wave. We were trolling with a big sea, I was cleaning fish with my back to the waves. The skipper was pulling gear with a view to the weather. He went scrambling for the wheel house, yelling "watch out". I glanced over my shoulder to see a wave breaking on top of me and the back of the boat. I was holding the cleaning table under water for a little bit, it seemed like a long time. David Suggs the skipper out of Moss Landing, realized I was okay and teased me a little about it. Apparently he had experienced it before, if I hadn't been soaked he, would have noticed my soiled pants. That was a pretty salty boat with scuppers, and the skipper did not seem scared.

If that charter boat experienced a similar wave, the boat would be doomed, that boat isn't built for a wave like that.

[Moldy45]

Im not going to pass any judgement on Rich ,I have never fished with him, What i cant say if Im sure he will have that day on his mind forever and that would have been a real nightmare.
The courts will decide ,we should not decide here on a forum as to his guilt or inocense thats just not right.

Find one time in your own life where you did something that was told to you by another was wrong.Hurts dont it

[Spoonplugger]

Dag Pike has a lot of good info in his book “Fast Powerboat Seamanship” concerning waves. He refers to some information that reveals that one wave in 23 could be twice the average height, one wave in 1,175 could be three times the average and, most terrifying of all, one wave in 300,000 could be four times the average height. This is why a reserve in the performance of your boat is necessary.

Troughs can also be deeper than the average and must be expected, and these deeper troughs, or holes, can be more dangerous than high crests because they will only become visible after the boat comes over the wave.

[bajadan2000]

Spoonplugger,

Thank you for the book tip. I need to read it.

Yes, troughs would be a better description of my sea mystery. The only clues that something was wrong were that when I could start to see the back of the next wave, I could tell from the distance between the waves and steepness of the back side of the next wave, that something was wrong. With out thinking, I turned the wheel to starboard. There was no time to think. The passenger to my left was an exsperience sea captain, (more exsperienced than myself, but along for a ride on my boat).. While I was making this starboard turn he turn to me to say something and just stood there with his mouth open. He knew it was allready too late to voice a warning and that it was over before it even started. It happened that fast. No time to talk about it. After a moment his only words were that he was very glad we did not continue on into the hole/trough and if we had we would be swimming now. I agreed 100%.....

My point is, had it been dark, or any of the same conditions that faced Rich on that night, the least of my worries would have been shopping for a new boat. It happens that fast.

[Mark Mc]

remember...

[FirstH2O]

Thank you Mark for the safety reminder.Remember that day all to well my father was the other survivor on that day along with Rich.Not good for anyone. Please everyone be safe & have many great days out on the pond.No fish is worth a big risk fish another day.