Tuning Advice: Arrows

[The Bloodletter]

I have been bow hunting for about five years now and have always relied on the guys at the shop to tune my bow. The last two sets of arrows I had made flew like crap w/ broadheads on them. I have heard some theories on how to get consistent broadhead flight but does anyone have the secret. I shoot a Hoyt Magnatech at 63lbs., 28" Carbon Express 400's and Rocky Mt. Premier 125's. I have had the best results with these heads but have really done nothing more than screw one on, try it and if it does't work, go with another style. Any advice is welcome. [img]graemlins/dork.gif[/img]

[Bait O' Eggs]

Tuning a bow is like understanding a wife. Just nod your head and pretend you know what is going on.

I tweek on my bow all the time and when one thing works better something else works worse

[jimh]

Are you using straight fletch, offset, or helical?
What length/material as in are you using feathers or vanes? Are you using fingers or release? What arrow rest are you using?

But, my guess is that your fletching is just too straight to stabilize your arrows since 400s should be plenty stiff enough.

[Crayfin]

YOU SHOULD BARE SHAFT TUNE YOUR BOW. I SHOOT FINGERS AND I CAN GET MY BARE SHAFTS TO SHOOT A PERFECT BULLET HOLE IN PAPER IN ABOUT 10 YARDS. I ALSO ADD TAPE TO THE BACK OF MY ARROW TO GET THE SAME "TAIL WEIGHT" AS THE FLETCHING.
THIS WILL MAKE A DIFFERENCE. ALSO NOT ALL "SCREW IN" BROADHEADS ARE STRAIGHT-YOU MIGHT HAVE TO BEND SOME OF THEM STRAIGHT.

I ALWAYS TRY TO LINE UP THE FLETCHING WITH THE BLADES BUT IN TRUTH I THINK THIS IS MORE OF A PET-PEAVE THAN A NECESSITY.

HOPE THAT HELPS

CRAYFIN

[The Bloodletter]

BOE,
That's kind of what I figured. That, and having your arrows blessed by the local witch doctor. :grin:

[The Bloodletter]

jimh
I shoot dipped shafts w/ 5" helical veins. I use a release and the factory two prong launcher. Some arrows shoot great but it seems like two out of every six avoid the bullseye like the plague.

[jimh]

Have you marked the arrows so you know it is always the same 2 arrows?

[The Bloodletter]

jimh
That is not a stupid question, but yes I did.

[jimh]

Then, there are a few possibilities. Either there is something wrong with the broadheads ( weight, alignment with center line or vanes), or some other difference with the arrows.

You can easily swap out broadheads to find out if there is a problem with the broadheads or not. I'd do that first and then we can go from there. I'm assuming you didn't do that yet. :smile:

[BrianMaguire]

By consistant broadhead flight do you mean consistant with your field points?

If your hunting arrows are longer (because your broadheads are longer) than your practice arrows this can account for some difference in where the arrows hit. I stopped fighting it and now have 2 settings on my sights, 1 for practice points and the other for broadheads.

There are some good books at most archery shops on tuning your bow. Much of it you can easily do yourself. I got one of these books and followed it. I get consistant shots but I could never get my field points and broadheads to hit the sme spot.

[ 02-25-2004, 08:56 PM: Message edited by: BrianMaguire ]

[Fish Hawg]

I have the same problem with my Legacy. It will shoot a tight enough group to tear flething off the arrow; with field points but when I put my interlocks on they wont even hit close to the same spot I think the arrow have a 6deg right helicoil(sp) on 31" 2317 I hink I'm ging to take it back to Archery World and have Joe tune them when I get a new drop-away rest.....Ross

[Mello-Yello]

Unfortunately, no....there is no secret. However, arm yourself with knowledge and experience and it will make it a lot easier.

This is really difficult to call without checking out your bow and arrows. Here's the first thing I'd do though.

Get some spray foot powder, the kind that will leave a residue of white powder. Spray them from the fletching back to the nock really well and let dry (only takes a minute or so).

Then shoot as you typically would. Shoot all your arrows. It sounds like you may not be getting consistent clearance from your vanes. It's hard to get 5" helicals to clear a prong rest. If you're touching the rest at all, you'll see where the footpowder is scraped off. If you see this, you've got major problems. Try adjusting your nock alignment so your vanes clear. If you get complete clearance and there's no indication your hitting your vanes on your rest, then you can rule one thing out.

I'm not familiar with your bow. Is that single or dual cam?

When I switch over to broadheads, here's what I do;

1. Install my quiver
2. Load my quiver with arrows, but leaving the closest slot empty (I know it's kinda anal, but I do this to simulate an actual hunting situation).
3. Crank my limbs down all the way (I typically shoot around 65# for 3D, using lighter arrows). Because I'm shooting a solo-cam, I don't mess with Tiller adjustments. If you're shooting a dual-cam, adjust your tiller to the manuf. specs.
4. Check center-shot and adjust if necessary to get it dead on.
5. Check nock-point. I typcially go slightly nock high (maybe 1/16") with my bow. Yours may be different. Dual cam bows typically start around 1/4" high.
6. I stand about 10 yds. from my target and shoot one arrow (I usually aim a little low and to the right because I know my hunting setup typically hits a little high and to the left).
7. I adjust my 20 yd pin so I'm hitting slightly high with good windage alignment.
8. Now back up to 20 yds and fine-tune the 20 yd. pin.
At this point, if your arrows aren't coming out clean, you should be able to see it. Regardless of how the arrows are flying, I next adjust the 30 yd pin, then the 40. I'm not expecting dead-on accuracy at this point, only confirming that my pin gap is adequate to not miss my target.

I prefer to tune my bow at 40 yds because the grouping (or lack thereof) is much more apparent.

If I'm not grouping satisfactory, I start making adjustments.
- If my group seems scattered high and low, I increase my nock point to 1/8" (1/16" higher than it was). If I see no improvement, I lower it 1/8" (1/16" lower than it was). One of these adjustments will usually tighten my groups vertically.
- If my group scatters left and right, I'll adjust my windage 1/16" to the left. If I see no improvement, I'll adjust it 1/8" to the right. I keep making 1/16" adjustments each way until I start getting good groups horizontally.

The most important thing when you're doing this (and most difficult) is executing each shot identically. Place heavy emphasis on your form. Aim hard, release smooth and follow through. Don't worry about hitting the dot, we're just trying to get your arrows to group.

Make sure you aren't gripping your bow. This will send broadhead-tipped arrows astray and diminish any hopes of consistency. I see a lot of people hold their hands open, with fingers pointed straight out. I've also seen slow-motion footage of people gripping this way actually grabbing their bow before the arrow completely clears the bow. The bow hand is connected to the same brain as your release hand, so the bow hand knows when you're going to release and will tend to anticipate the release. I prefer to tuck my fingers in (like an open fist) and let my wrist-strap worry about keeping my bow off the ground.

Make only one adjustment at a time. If you see no difference, move it back to where it was and make a different adjustment.

If you get tired, stop and take a breather. Fatigue will only make matters worse.

Only when you get your arrows to group consistently do you want to start making fine adjustments with your pins.

I shoot a Mathews Q2XL @ 70#s (hunting setup). I use 4" vanes, straight fletch (slighly offset) w/100 gr. Thunderheads. I rarely spend more than an hour or two changing over from 3D to Hunting setups and am usually grouping my hunting arrows 2-3" at 40 yds (incosistency due to inability to hold rock steady). Please understand, I'm not bragging...just exemplifying that it can be done and what one can expect.

Your form and execution of shot will be the most important key to tight groups and accurate hits.

Good Luck!

M-Y

(sorry for the long post)

[Hanapa'a Time]

Another one for the clearance of vanes and your rest. 5" vanes w/ helical need room, maybe a fall away could solve this??
Do your broadheads spin true on each shaft??
I tune each shaft w/ broadhead, harder on carbons because of the one time epoxy/insert process.

[Little Dipper]

i shoot a mathews solo cam with gold tip 55/75 with a 4 inch straight fletch done myself also align my thunderheads 100's with the fletches shoot 70lbs have had the best luck. tried different bows and arrows and broadheads. seems to be the best combo for me. my 2 cents

[Bait O' Eggs]

My biggest problem is to grip the bow hard, and rotate my wrist outward. This allows the string to slap my forearm and send the arrows all over the place.

Old bad habit, and if I am not paying attention I get reminded with a welt. [img]graemlins/1zhelp.gif[/img]

Arm guard protects my arm, but doesnt rememedy the problem with my gripping. Best to get slapped when I am doing it wrong to remind me

Good luck, with your groupings.

I gave up trying to get field point and broadheads to hit the same spot, I now just accept the fact the sight will be adjusted when I go broadheads.

[Mello-Yello]

BOE, it's possible you're extending your bow arm too far. You should have a slight bend in your elbow (this really saves wear & tear on the joint too). This allows your bow arm to travel slightly forward on release. If you're bow arm is fully extended at release, it will tend to veer to the left (assuming you hold your bow w/your left hand).

If you're gripping your bow at all, your gripping it too much. Adjust your wrist sling so that it's almost able to hold your bow upright without gripping your riser. Then work on keeping your fingers off your riser until after your arrow strikes the target.

Last summer I was fiddling around with my Martin Fury (haven't shot it in a couple years). I had it pretty much setup, but in my haste, I didn't attach a wrist sling. On my first shot, the bow shot completely out of my hand and landed on the ground (thank goodness I was on the lawn). The good news is...I've learned to not grip my bow, without even thinking about it.

[Bait O' Eggs]

MY - Thats exactly what I tend to do from bad years of form. Didnt have a wrist strap on the old bow in the beginning. Thought it looked stupid so didnt put one on. I would lock the elbow, grip very hard and rotate the wrist out. Couldnt group for squat and knew I was not wiggling that much.

After thinking hours and hours of shooting would remedy the situation, I realized I was just er-enforcing a bad habit. :depressed:

Finally talked to some guy behind the counter who I thought knew less than me :blush: and he watched me shoot. Of course right off he wanted to sell me a wrist strap. I figured this guy was just trying to make a sale so I blew off his recommendations and kept doing what I was doing. Then I talked to another guy at another shop behind the counter and he told me the same thing, only in a way that I understood and I agreed with him. :blush: It was pretty obvious I was pulling the bow, and then tweeking the bow off at several degrees when I rotated my wrist out with that tight grip.

I put on that wrist strap I should have bought in the beginning and started shooting with no grip to speak of, slightly bent the elbow which was the hardest thing to break.

Groups tightened up immediately. I guess I should have listened to the advice I got in the beginning. :blush:

I still tend to want to lock the elbow but not very often :grin: the grip habit was easier to break.

[Radke]

I have had really good luck getting my broadheads fly as true as my field points, but only after taking into consideration two very important points, both of which have been mentioned in this thread.

1. Fletching clearance. If your fletching is hitting your rest, you may get good flight with field tips, but rarely will you get good flight with a broadhead. Its like having a second set of fletching on the front of your arrow.

2. Spin test. If you don't have an arrow spinner, take a two foot length of 2x4, hammer two nails at each end in a cross hatch pattern, drop your arrow (with broad head mounted) suspended on the nails, and spin it. If there is even a tiny bit of wobble at the broad head tip, it won't fly like your field tips. This is especially true the faster your arrows fly.

[Steelie Ben]

When you are at full draw your elbow should be slightly bent? How much should it be relaxed? This is a great thread for all the newbies like myself.
SB

[dla]

Think of it more as the rotation of your wrist than explicity bending your elbow. Assuming a right-handed shooter, your left wrist should be "unlocked", i.e. angled to the right.

Hope this helps.

[Fish Hawg]

I shoot 2317 xx78 grand slams at 31 1/2". I would like to get the easton A/C/C's. But I noticed that they are only 31" long. Is that half and inch that big of a deal? Or should I get a 31 1/2" in the new ST Axis arrow? .....Ross

[crabbait]

Fishhawg - I would not recommend A/C/Cs (and, yes, I have shot them and currently own a bunch). They are very light and fast but the fact that they are an aluminum composite brings you right back to the problem with aluminum....straight shafts. I also found it more difficult to get a good glue bond with these shafts.

I would go with Carbon Express or Gold Tip shafts. Excellent internal components and great arrow flight. Good luck.


As for the broadhead tuning: Fix any clearance problems first (assuming that the bow is centershot) then start paper tuning and, as previously mentioned, make only one adjustment at a time.

[Fish Hawg]

Crabbait, Thanks for the info, Have you seen these? They sound really stong. Easton ST Axis They sound like an awesome hunting arrow. ....Ross

[crabbait]

No I haven't. Easton was and is the #1 name in aluminum arrows since forever. However, they came late to the carbon game and have been trying to catch up for some time.

They were the first to come out with camo carbon arrows (I personaly don't see much point in camo arrows as I have spent too much time trying to find brightly fletched non-camo arrows, especially if an animal is involved). The problem with the camo shafts was that the camo wore off pretty quickly when shot into stuff like cedar bales or even styrofoam (same problem they had with the first anodized aluminum arrows).

I am sure that they are improving rapidly and their latest may be excellent arrows. I simply have no experience with them.

[The Bloodletter]

Thanks All,

Lots of good info here. I have some things to try out.

[brdkdg]

Go to the easton or Beman web sites (Easton owns Beman). You will find the " arrow tuning & maintenance Guide". It is about 32 pages long but well worth printing out.