LOP tags - what do we do if anything?

[Bait O' Eggs]

I have mixed emotions on LOP tags

On one hand if I had 1000's of acres covered in critters I would want the opportunity to harvest them for myself and maybe sell a few of the tags to help pay for the spread. Seems to be part of the American dream.

Since I dont have 1000's of acres I think the animals all belong to the public and if I can only buy one tag, the land owner should get one tag also. By being rich should not give somebody more rigths to the public property that should be shared equally.

So it boils down to the haves and have nots. Of course they each think they are right.

If I had tons of money, I would buy tons of land and spend my days hunting/fishing. Period!!! You wouldnt see me, or hear from me I would just be doing it. I work all year and save my vacation for the pursuit of hunting and fishing. I dont believe I have ever taken a vacation day that I didnt try to kill something whether it swam or ran.

Landowners are indirectly encouraged to graze their cattle on public land. It boils down to about 2 cents per day per cow for the range fees. We all know landowners cant buy land and grow grass/feed for that kind of money to feed their cows. So the landowners spend their 2 cents to raise a cow all summer on public ground while allowing the feed on their property to grow unharvested, and when the snow flies in the high country, the landowner can bring his cattle down to his land and have them feed their until he is forced to winter them on hay.

It is pretty hard for me to tell somebody who has paid for the property and repairs the fence etc. when the elk and antelope break it down that they shouldnt have some special rights to harvest some of these animals. I know if I was in the haves catagory I would want it, so I guess I cant tell them they shouldnt get it.


There are programs like CRP where the state pays the landowner to not harvest ground and plant it in feed for deer/elk. I dont know a lot about the program but the one rancher I know who told me about it and gets a nice tidy check from the state explained how easy it is to abuse the system. He promises to not harvest a piece of ground for something like 10 years, and each year he has to seed this peice of ground in feed that the deer can eat. He takes all the ground that he couldnt harvest wheat on anyway due to steep terrain etc... he spreads a little alfalfa seed on it and gets paid far in excess of his cost for not harvesting ground he couldnt harvest anyway. Seems like the state is getting taken to the cleaners to me

I know one guy who makes pretty good money who bought a little spread just to get a LOP. I believe he is suppose to hunt on his property with his tag, but he has terrible hunting ground, so he hunts the public land that he butts up to his. Nobody is the wiser exactly where it was shot when he drags his harvested animal down thru his property bringing it out. Minimal number of people in the area to see what is going on.

I wish it was easier to catch the people who abuse the system.

I believe the LOP tags will see a major reform in the next few years. I just dont know what it will be.

[Washington Hunter]

First of all I'll say landowner preference tags should be limited to the landowner and family/friends. It should not be legal to sell them...but if that wasn't allowed how would it be enforced? That's all I have to say on that. I don't know have the answer. I just don't believe the public's wildlife should be sold for a profit by individuals. I also don't think outfitters should be given tags. Outfitters can cater to the hunters who are lucky in the draw. Letting them have guaranteed tags for their clients is simply another form of welfare, which by the way, is exactly what ranchers are getting by grazing cattle on public land.

Another comment...the Conservation Reserve Program (CRP) is not run by the state, it's a program run by the federal government, and has been very successful in maintaining and/or restoring wildlife such as deer, pheasants, ducks, sharptail grouse, etc. in many states, especially states like Colorado, Kansas, South Dakota, and Montana.

[Bait O' Eggs]

Thanks Wa Hunter - I didnt know it was a fed program, thought it was a state program. :blush:

I dont doubt it doesnt do deer good raising crops for them, I wouldnt have known about it if the one rancher I was talking to didnt tell me about how he was bilking the system, getting paid to not harvest ground he couldnt harvest anyway. I dont remember the numbers but it seemed like quite a lot of money at the time for no more cost than he told me had in it.

[Wetwrk2]

You all need to do a little more homework...on the CRP and especially the LOP. I am a recepitant of the LOP as our property has enough acreage to apply for one(its based on acreage). Our ranch has been in the cattle business since 1908. LOP is for blood-relatives, or by marriage, my wife can now hunt with me but her parents cannot. You cannot sell a LOP tag. You can let folks who draw yer property hunt it with permission or you can offer the hunting rights for a price to a guide or party who still have to draw the Unit as well as the party. We are not a big ranch only about 2500 acres. My great great grandfather homesteaded in 1896 and our ranch started from 30head of black angus. Our ranch currently runs about 125 to 150 head of cattle right now. Since I was a kid all of my family hunted...we had to get by without killing our lively hood. My grandfather always told me how we feed them critters year round just like the cows so we should be able to eat'em. We do not poach'em. We have always used legally drawn tags just like the rest of you. With the past 10 years being drought years we haven't been able get the deer or elk like years past and have ben forced to kill our own beef. That's about $1000 in feed and medicine to make sure there's food on the table. Thats about what it takes to raise a steer to eat. Usually we apply for the Unit hunts but always put a LOP as our last pick in case we don't draw. Right now our property is getting surrounded by Californian immigrants he-he-he..oh ya and a few city slickers who don't allow hunting of any kind. What'cha gonna do? Force them to let us hunt their place, if they run some livestock onto public land to feed their families. We have never been rich....my Mother works, my Grandmother worked to help support the ranch. I'll never call another rancher rich..they pay somewhere. Imagine the taxes. You might want to look into the CRP it was a so-so program. We ended up having to get out of it for a loss because they make ya use yer best feed land. You can make more money using the land. Depending on the land it was only like a $100 a acre. CRP was set up cause folks who didn't know how to properly use their property burned it up kinda ruined it for anything wildlife included. Now throw in water rights, land taxes, EPA and Clean Water Acts hmmmm...oh ya mad cows fun too but we only have happy ones on our place!- Be safe-Seth Freeman
ps. All and all folks please do a little research before ya feel like yer getting jipped!

[BrianMaguire]

Thanks for the post wetwrk2 but isn't Depoe bay fishing country not ranching country? Do you ranch full time or have a day job? The LOP program, according to the ODFW regs "provide a form of compensation to landowners for resources used by wildlife. Tags are available to landowners, family members and others designated by the landowner based on the acreage owned." The confusion is in the term "others designated" which in my interpretation could be anyone not just a family member. The regs also don't state a restriction on selling the tags. Is this incorrect? Maybe you should have read the regs and let your wifes parents hunt all these years?

The LOP system has just popped up on my radar as a potential problem and I admit I knew little about it. I have heard rumblings and started this thread to find out what the real deal is. I was aware the LOP system was based on acreage and just assumed that no one could possibly need 4 antelope tags each year for their own family. I have been trying to get a lope tag going on 8 years now.

10 years of drought sounds like climate change. Maybe this is the way it will be in the future? I just read something that said that much of the west can expect 1/2 to 1/3 of the normal rainfall by the end of the century.

[ 02-26-2004, 12:32 AM: Message edited by: BrianMaguire ]

[Washington Hunter]

Here is a description of the CRP:

Conservation Reserve Program
The Conservation Reserve Program (CRP) provides technical and financial assistance to eligible farmers and ranchers to address soil, water, and related natural resource concerns on their lands in an environmentally beneficial and cost-effective manner. The program provides assistance to farmers and ranchers in complying with Federal, State, and tribal environmental laws, and encourages environmental enhancement. The program is funded through the Commodity Credit Corporation (CCC). CRP is administered by the Farm Service Agency, with NRCS providing technical land eligibility determinations, Environmental Benefit Index Scoring, and conservation planning.

The Conservation Reserve Program reduces soil erosion, protects the Nation's ability to produce food and fiber, reduces sedimentation in streams and lakes, improves water quality, establishes wildlife habitat, and enhances forest and wetland resources. It encourages farmers to convert highly erodible cropland or other environmentally sensitive acreage to vegetative cover, such as tame or native grasses, wildlife plantings, trees, filterstrips, or riparian buffers. Farmers receive an annual rental payment for the term of the multi-year contract. Cost sharing is provided to establish the vegetative cover practices.


http://www.nrcs.usda.gov/programs/crp/

[ry]

outstanding post wetwrk2, you got to the point and were very non-offensive. After reading the fist post, what do WE do, and the comment about colorado lop holders HAVING to let people onto their land really got me heated. However you explained it quite well, thanks.

[BrianMaguire]

From my Ochoco Elk thread the LOP tag system has came up to the top with grazing as a major issue with hunting. Many ranches are being turned into high priced hunting areas that few of us can or should have to afford. This gives the incentive for illegal activities that many of us have seen first hand and also gives the incentive to overgraze public land.

Do we do away with the LOP tags? Do we try to reform then so that only a direct owner of the land or family member can use them (I think this was the intent of the system)?

What are the problems, if any and what are solutions?

A good suggestion, at leat I though it was good was to reform the LOP tag system ">>I like Colorado's Ranching for Wildlife better, where to get the LOP tags, they have to allow a certain amount of public hunting on their own land."

I don't know the specifics of this plan but looks like it may be fair.

Does anything really need to be done?

[Wetwrk2]

In 1989 I graduated Baker High School and decided to go out on my own hook. Do something on my own, like most youngsters. I am currently have five years left before I retire from the US Coast Guard. I'm a Surfman. I come get'cha on the days yer own Mom wouldn't try he-he-he! Hence my presence in Depoe Bay...and Florence..and Winchester Bay...and Coos Bay...and Bandon he-he!I've been bouncing around my home coast since 94. My Father and I have been working together in a sort'a distant partnership and as time draws closer I'm getting more and more involved. In five years I move family home to at some point take over my heritage. So I kinda know a leetle bit 'bout it he-he-he!! I'll miss the Guard but its time for me to go back to my roots.- Be Safe- Seth Freeman

[Maverick Maxcat]

We also use the LOP system. The tags may NOT be sold--only the ACCESS to hunt. In addition, only HALF the tags available my go to non-family members. Everyone must be registered on a form from the landowner to the ODFW on the tag drawing application deadline. No-one has tags to sell or give out. Hunters must put in for the draw with LOP as one choice. I agree that wildlife is owned by the general public, but if a landowner can provide the habitat needed to grow game, they should be able to harvest the game.

[flyx4]

I believe That LOP tags are good. In a sense these private landowners are providing an area for wildlife to live in a more natural environment without everyone and there family trompin all over it. Cunningham sheep company, one of the largest farms in oregon recieve many LOP Branch bull tags and buck tags. They do there part in preserving these acres for the wildlife as well as for farming needs. Without landowners many Game herds would be in a big hurt.

LOP tags are good because landowners do more than you think.

[OK Deal Let\'s Fish]

I think the LOP tags should be for the landowners and their immediate family only. Why should they profit from the state's resources? If the animals in question are really an issue to the land then the meat should be donated to a state run facility.