Attention SI Sky Busters!

[Chromaflage]

Knock it off and let the birds work!!!! Very few people can constistently pick birds off at 70+ yards. So, quit wasting your shells and ruining the hunt for everyone else around you.



CrF

[billc_sbio]

Spent most of the day with 3 hunters on one side who consistently shot at birds to 90 yards, and a single hunter on our other side who seemed content to take 70 yard shots!

The ducks actually WOULD HAVE worked, some of them anyway, IF they WOULDN'T shoot at everything that flew overhead!

In fact if they didn't shoot at the birds that high, the birds wouldn't continously climb up to that altitude when getting up and flying over the trees!

[waterfowlin101]

Chromo....Bill

Where were you guys hunting??

I hunted SI today and was on a lake with other fellows who all let the birds work. It was very refreshing!!

Jon

[Chromaflage]

Mudhen the guys next to us shot at just about anything that flew above or in front of them. Yeah, they got lucky on a couple, but man, they wouldn't let anyting within 100 yards work at all.

CrF

[fishncliff]

+
I heard all that shootin over there. I was in Deadwillow.

Couldn't get anything to come in range with all that noise goin on over there. :tongue:

[billc_sbio]

Jon,

Holman Point, mediocre draw (so wuddaya expect, I guess?!! )

But they really COULD get birds working in there with the water fairly well "up" as it was...especially Mallards.

We'd get them working around, just over treetop level, and about that time some Sprig (or whatever) would fly 90 yards over the guys the next cut down and boom, boom, boom, and the working ducks would be out of there!

Under the right conditions, Holman Point, can be very much like Johnson (especially IF people hunting out there would let it happen!).

[Steve L.]

I was on Mudhen with a buddy ( we're both newbies )and we fired a total of 6 shells yesterday just because nothing was in range. He got a mallard hen and after that we had one pass shot at a low flying teal that rocketed past.
Frustrating day

[redfish89]

Yesterday, I saw something i have never seen before. A guy in the blind next to us was shooting at anything 150+ yards.
Luck for us he was out of shells by 10am. Also, he got no birds!!! Please let the birds work.....

[elkhuntr28]

Yesterday, I saw something i have never seen before. A guy in the blind next to us was shooting at anything 150+ yards.
Luck for us he was out of shells by 10am. Also, he got no birds!!! Please let the birds work.....

Sounds like PETA at work to me... No one else would try this kind of stuff.

[D3smartie]

Sounds like PETA at work to me... No one else would try this kind of stuff.

I have had the same thought myself at times, but then they finally wing one at that range and are all proud about it in the parking lot.
Some things just make you wonder though.

there really should be some way to report it, and have something done about it. I am not sure if there is a viable way to record it but it sure is a pain in the A$$.

[Crooked Hook]

Chromaflage, I feel your pain. Don't you wonder what these guys are thinking? Are they ignorant? Are they just inexperienced? Are they shooting 3& 1/2 inch mags with BB's at ducks? I don't know what the solution is but if you find out I'd be glad to help you implement it.

[duckkiller]

Most those sky busters only hunt two or there times a year and they dont know any beter tell you let them know next time give em hell it works some times

[BrotherWolf]

We now have shooters...Not Hunters. I would rather watch a bird get dropped buy the guy with the better shot than take a pot shot at it. Its a great thing to watch birds work the deks etc...shooters have no discipline, no respect for there fellow hunters and seem to be independent of outside forces and hints and concerned solely with one's own desires...yes self centerd sob.

[waterfowlin101]

We took Racetrack 12 on a whim ....wind was right for that blind.

Wasn't red hot but thanks to some good shooting, we managed 11 mallards, our 2 pintail, and 1 teal ( ). It took a good bit of the day though...the shots were really spread out.

The cool thing was nearly every mallard we shot came right in with very little hesitation. I blew my call all day and real hard....birds are not call shy yet :grin:

Jon

[Swamp Puppy]

OMG!!!
SKY BUSTERS ON SAUVIE ISLAND!!!
WHEN DID THAT HAPPEN!!!

[Quackhead]

Racetrack 12! Wow thats not bad at all. Usually there isn't much water there. But I guess right now that is not the case.
It doesn't seem to matter where you are, you seem to get your mallards. Good job

[Teton]

I refuse to go to Mud$%#, no "hunting" occurs there. I went once 3 years ago for an hour, and will not return.

[DukAddict]

Not very call shy yet? Try hunting the westside... Not fun at all when the birds flair off of any noise. And thats not just my crapping calling, even the widgeon and pintail whistles they flaired on.

Brett Neffendorf

[billc_sbio]

I refuse to go to Mud$%#, no "hunting" occurs there. I went once 3 years ago for an hour, and will not return.

Well, like everything, "it depends"!

Look here

http://community.webshots.com/photo/...13252004vHqLZY

and here

http://community.webshots.com/photo/...12682365qfvfqU

Those were 2 different hunts, almost exactly a year apart w/newbie hunters (except Kevin).

For those guys, both on their 1st duck hunts, I'd call those a "Hunt"!

[waterfowlin101]

Not very call shy yet? Try hunting the westside... Not fun at all when the birds flair off of any noise. And thats not just my crapping calling, even the widgeon and pintail whistles they flaired on.

Brett Neffendorf

Hey Brett...wanna know my take...probably not but here goes.

Birds in the late season don't get call shy!!

Yep, you heard me correctly, they don't get call shy. Knowing when to call is way more important than knowing how to call. I haven't stopped blowing hard comeback calls at retreating birds and long loud hen quacks at approaching mallards. We shot mallards both days this weekend with great success, and they came in real close too.

I'm not saying that it is as easy as it was earlier in the season, but they will come.

Rather than being call shy, I think the birds are MUD LAKE shy :grin:. They fly over that lake every day for the last couple of months....you gotta do something different. Set your dekes in a way you've never seen anyone do it before. Be original...when the birds aren't working right...don't assume it's the call. I would be out in those dekes moving things around (and [petunias!] all the other blinds off in the process ) until the birds started to react better. Little changes, big changes. Put your decoys out 60 yards from shore with a kill hole on the inside . Give them no place to land on the outside of your spread...I know right now they want the middle of the lake. Set your dekes 50 yards to one side of the blind in a big block and a couple three in front of your blind hooked to a jerk cord. Heck I don't know...try something. Give them something original....you will at least go down trying. Now that's hunting.



Jon

Jon

[Swamp Puppy]

they don't get call shy. Knowing when to call is way more important than knowing how to call.

very true.

They fly over that lake every day for the last couple of months....you gotta do something different. Set your dekes in a way you've never seen anyone do it before. Be original...when the birds aren't working right...don't assume it's the call. I would be out in those dekes moving things around

you've seen me do it Bret. get out there and change it up. be unique...think outside the box. (or the "U" or "V" or "C" or "L" or any other standard shape people put decoys in out there)

Jon hit it right on...get out there and HUNT. (or the closest thing to it on a WMA anyway) don't get caught in the "rut" of what you are "supposed" to do out there.

[gottafish]

Hey Brett...wanna know my take...probably not but here goes.

Birds in the late season don't get call shy!!

Yep, you heard me correctly, they don't get call shy. Knowing when to call is way more important than knowing how to call. I haven't stopped blowing hard comeback calls at retreating birds and long loud hen quacks at approaching mallards. We shot mallards both days this weekend with great success, and they came in real close too.

I'm not saying that it is as easy as it was earlier in the season, but they will come.

Rather than being call shy, I think the birds are MUD LAKE shy :grin:. They fly over that lake every day for the last couple of months....you gotta do something different. Set your dekes in a way you've never seen anyone do it before. Be original...when the birds aren't working right...don't assume it's the call. I would be out in those dekes moving things around (and [petunias!] all the other blinds off in the process ) until the birds started to react better. Little changes, big changes. Put your decoys out 60 yards from shore with a kill hole on the inside . Give them no place to land on the outside of your spread...I know right now they want the middle of the lake. Set your dekes 50 yards to one side of the blind in a big block and a couple three in front of your blind hooked to a jerk cord. Heck I don't know...try something. Give them something original....you will at least go down trying. Now that's hunting.



Jon

Jon

Jon Thats the best advice I have heard all season!!!

[FishinTechnician]

Do they have a shell limit on the island?

Some of the more popular waterfowl WMA's in Arkansas had shell limits and it helped cut down on skybusting. They enforced it by searching boats and packs at the ramp and in the field. 25 shells was the limit. The bag limits were slightly smaller.

Depending on how serious a problem it is there shell limits could be a partial solution to the problem.

[alwaysfishing]

I agree, skybusters are a problem and shouldn't be welcome. Maybe SI could adopt a 25 shell limit like Umatilla does, maybe this would make people think more about their shots!

[The_Duck_Master]

Boy, I sure wish they would. Even if it didn't stop them from sky bustin at least you wouldn't have to wait long for them to leave.

[thehunt]

Reason number 1,278,348 that I don't hunt mudhen. I know, I know it can be good, and occaisionally some real hunter get in the hill billy mix up but not this one. Extremely rare would be a hunt day that mudhen shoots well and a few other units don't do just as good. I'll gladly be in those other units, although not suseptible to being invaded my sky busters.

Hey Jon, bet you will see some interesting spreads at ML this weekend thanks to you. I hope someone posts up which one works best. The key to success, not getting stuck in your OLD ways. Can I get an amen?????

[Tilla]

Those of us that kept our mouths shut as we listen to the criticism of private clubs awhile back are quite amused.

[Quasimodo the fish killer]

hmm kind of reminds me of my first time at summer lake.

I could see the flocks of geese coming down the dikes and the shots would start goin off at birds that were 100 yrds up there. I could see the poor geese dodging the shot and weaving their way thru all the flack it reminded me of the old ww2 footage of the guns goin off at the dive bomers coming towards the ships.

it cracks me up to see people do that and thats why I never hunt the refuges.

Quasi

.

[DukAddict]

My god Jon you are full of professional advice.

All im trying to say is that the last few days I have been on mudlake, the people that killed the most birds are the ones that DIDNT pick up a call at all.

Ed, I hunted with you for 3 years and we hardly ever blew our calls and we killed limits of ducks all the time. So Ed knows what Im talking about, we proved it all the time.

The birds in certain areas may respond better but I also believe it has to do with the weather. If you listen to guys like John Stephens talk, he says you can get away with more calling on a sunny day. He also says lay down the calls alot of the time and be very quiet and still on dead overcast days.

Just what I have observed in the past few days on SI that I have hunted. It may have to do with the fact that its Mudlake like you said, but who knows. My group out shot the other blinds on Mudlake the past 3 days I have been out there and we were the ones who didnt use our calls.

Brett Neffendorf

[DukAddict]

Oh and Ed, I dont know what you mean by GETTING OUT THERE AND HUNTING... Heck man Im usually hunting 3-4 days a week :smile: hahaha

Brett Neffendorf

[Silverback]

I've had many old timers tell me the hardest call for a duckhunter to master is "Silence" !! Just maybe those fella's know what they are talking about??

[skybuster]

Don't judge me by my screen name!

My screen name is actually what I named my last black lab sort of as a joke.

I have to agree that sometimes you need to put the call down. Especially if you aren't real good at blowing it. I can call geese as well or better than most, but consider my duck call just average.

I haven't hunted the public land on SI in a while as I was granted access to some private land for several seasons, but the last time I was there I hunted on Mud lake. I got there late at about 1000 and believe I was on #7. It wasn't a very good spot. I walked in with my dog and threw out just 8 dekes. I was actually having more fun hollering at the geese and getting them to come look at me when all of a sudden mallards started buzzing my spread. Other guys were quacking and shooting all over the lake and there I sat with my 8 decoys out.

I never blew the call and limited by 1330. This was back when the limit was 4 birds and I think it took me 7 shots to get them. It happened so quick that the dog didn't even get a very good workout.

The point is, if your not a great caller sometimes the best thing you can do is nothing at all.

[alwaysfishing]

How about waiting for the ducks to land in your spread, then jump them and shoot, this will distinguish the people getting them in and the people pass shooting at others ducks!

[wife&3kids]

Ed, I hunted with you for 3 years and we hardly ever blew our calls and we killed limits of ducks all the time. So Ed knows what Im talking about, we proved it all the time.
Brett Neffendorf

Brett, were you even old enough to hunt 3 years ago by yourself?

Just teasing, but you do look awefully young. I must say I am somewhat impressed with your work ethic. You have posted some great pics and keep them coming.

[DukAddict]

Thanks man. Im 18 years old and still kickin hahaha

DOnt quite have a wife and 3 kids yet but im workin on the neighbor girl

Brett Neffendorf

[suckerfish]

I wasn't aware that my long range shooting would have such a profound impact on so many people. I thought long range shooting was a testament of skill, coveted by all sportsman. Heck, killing a duck at 70 yards is a much more daunting task than say 30 yards. I take pride in taking the long shots. If I can connect better than 20%, there is no reason to be shamfull of such accomplishments. Whats the diffrence anyhow. A shot a duck is a shot no matter the distance. I have killed many ducks past 70 yards but only feel comftrable taking them on the inside of that range. As long as I continue to be leathal at those ranges I will continue to take those shots, plus you have a fewer chance of ruining the meat. See you on the island. Im the guy with the big poodle looking dog, stop by and say hi.


suckerfish

[DukAddict]

Yeah and your also the reason theres cripples all over Ammunition point. But I do apreciate your honesty, But I do hope your joking?

Brett Neffendorf

[gottafish]

I wasn't aware that my long range shooting would have such a profound impact on so many people. I thought long range shooting was a testament of skill, coveted by all sportsman. Heck, killing a duck at 70 yards is a much more daunting task than say 30 yards. I take pride in taking the long shots. If I can connect better than 20%, there is no reason to be shamfull of such accomplishments. Whats the diffrence anyhow. A shot a duck is a shot no matter the distance. I have killed many ducks past 70 yards but only feel comftrable taking them on the inside of that range. As long as I continue to be leathal at those ranges I will continue to take those shots, plus you have a fewer chance of ruining the meat. See you on the island. Im the guy with the big poodle looking dog, stop by and say hi.


suckerfish

[rimrock]

Works for me Ya know if a hitter bats over .300 in baseball guys end up in the Hall of Fame.

[baltz526]

my shooting at 20yds is about 30% my shooting at 50yds is about 50% which is the ethical range to take the shot at. if every bird is passing my blind at 50 to 60yds, with out stopping, i'm going to be shooting. luckily i do not need to hunt sauvies island for my waterfowl fix. and summer lake is mostly a pass shooting area.so i have lots of practice pass shooting, and i hunt with guns designed for pass shooting, and shells able to kill at longer ranges.if i hunted sauvies island would i use the same tactics, no. i would change my tactics to give me the best kill percentage. from reading about how you all hunt it, i would pack an 870 with a screw in chokes and higher pellet count shells, and make the hunt more about your hunting experence.

[Chesapeake]

I have never hunted SI. But I hunt Shillapoo alot and I'm sure it is the same type of conditions.

A spread that seems to work good for me in the late season is to use just 3 pairs of mallards. Pair them up and spread the pairs along the water in front of the blind keeping the pairs 10 feet or so appart from each other.

So far I think the best place for a duck call is in the pocket. About the only time we use them is to try and call back bird that are leaving, or to try and get the cruzers to look our way.

Is cruzer even a word?

[suckerfish]

Most of the time I only take a few decoys with me. I set up where the ducks like to fly by and then I wack'em. I had a couple of guys at Savies jump me because they where saying I was shooting their birds "on the swing". Not real sure what that ment. I replied, them ain't your ducks until you knock'em down. They got real upset and left, so I moved to their spot, it was a much better spot than mine. Finished a limit a few hours later. When I checked out I turned them guys in for harassing me. I think they where issued a ticket. I was told there lots of harassment that goes on out their. Seems anytime I go out, there is someone harassinging or threating. I just ignor them and keep hunting.

suckerfish

[Limbhanger]

Cruiser is........ :grin:

[billc_sbio]

Suckerfish,

I don't know WHAT you're shooting for ammunition, but if it's STEEL Shot, then there's NO ammunition currently loaded in Steel loads that will consistently KILL ducks at 70 yards!

If it has sufficient "killing energy" at 70 yards, then it doesn't have enough pellets for sufficient pattern density at that range.

If it has enough pellets for good pattern density, then it doesn't have enough energy at that range!

Neither do the best Lead Loads (maybe for Geese, but they're a bigger target than a typical duck)

"Maybe" you might have what it takes using some load of Hevi-Shot, but even that's doubtful.

Sorry, that's just the laws of physics and shotgun ballistics. :shocked:

So, if you're connecting (and recovering birds) 30% of the time, that means you're a pretty fair shot at those ranges. It also means you're occasionally getting "lucky" with a broken wing or a lethal pellet, here and there.

It also means that you're WOUNDING lots of birds!

Many of them probably fly off and die later...

How about tryin 35 yards and upping your success to 90+%?!!

The best hunter is not the one who can knock down the most birds from far away, but rather the one who CAN KILL THE MOST DUCKS WITH THE FEWEST SHOTS!

[Chesapeake]

I wasnt even close enough for spell check to figure it out.

[billc_sbio]

Suckerfish,

The best hunter is not the one who can knock down the most birds from far away,


(Oh, and I forgot to mention...TAKING HIGH SHOTS ON BIRDS THAT ARE PERHAPS "WORKING" SOMEONE ELSE'S DECOYS AND REALLY PISSIN THEM OFF! )

but rather the one who CAN KILL THE MOST DUCKS WITH THE FEWEST SHOTS!

(With the hunting "skills" that allow them to shoot birds close-in with "killing" shots every time! )

[baltz526]

i shot an old crippled western canadian, this season, using 1 1/8th oz #2's at 1560fps using my fixed 30" full choke wingmaster. the bird was hit three times between 60 and 70yds maybe a little farther. the bird had 21 pellet hits in the left breast, left wing was broken, several other pellet hits on the left side, bird was dead when it hit the ground. NONE OF THE PELLETS IN THE BREAST PENITRATED THE BREAST BONE. on a duck they would have.3 3/8th oz of shot is enough to fill in a pattern at longer ranges, but steel shot on large geese is a limiting factor. one shot kills do not happen often at longer ranges on geese.

[suckerfish]

Im not sure what your point is. If the birds are working over my "assigned" blind then I should be the one shooting at them. And plus, if this upsets others then thay need to understand that im outhere to hunt not bird watch. And, its not much fun swatting birds off the water. And how much fun would it be to only shoot 7 times when in the field. Heck when I deer hunt I am always shooting at stumps keeps my shooting sharp. I carrie this same philosophy over to duck hunting. Its like shooting clay targets.

suckerfish

[billc_sbio]

Back when Lead Shot was still legal, I was into loading up long range (goose) hunting loads for it.

These used Copper Plated (or Nickel Plated-better!) Hard Lead shot, special shotcups, and plastic buffer.

The energy on these loads, using BBs was sufficient enough to penetrate clear THROUGH a big goose out to 110 yards!

The trouble with them was that the pellet density was such that it dropped off, below the required number (to put 5 hits into the body of that sized target) at about 50 yards! :shocked:

So it DIDN'T HAVE ENOUGH PELLETS for longer ranges.

At the same time, Lead #2s had enough energy to go through the same bird out to about 70 yards, but it ran out of pattern density at 60 yards, so 60 YARDS WAS THE MAXIMUM RANGE of those loads, while the BBs could only be counted on to 50 yards!

So here's a question to ponder...what's better?

X (marginal) number of pellets that will go THROUGH the bird at 50 yards, OR X + 30% that will go HALF WAY INTO the bird at the same distance?!

[billc_sbio]

[quote
Im not sure what your point is. If the birds are working over my "assigned" blind then I should be the one shooting at them. And plus, if this upsets others then thay need to understand that im outhere to hunt not bird watch. And, its not much fun swatting birds off the water. And how much fun would it be to only shoot 7 times when in the field. Heck when I deer hunt I am always shooting at stumps keeps my shooting sharp. I carrie this same philosophy over to duck hunting. Its like shooting clay targets.

suckerfish

[/quote]

O.k., let me word this a little differently...see IF you can see it from a slightly different perspective

Come onto this site and post about how good a shot you are...

Tell everybody how you get to see LOTS of Elk when you're out hunting and you like taking your shots at 400-600 yards away (cuz that's "where" you see them most of the time)!

Then tell us you're pretty successful! You get 30% of all the Elk you shoot at!

AND, you probably "hit" some more of them, but you don't get to find them because they run off/get away! :shocked:

I'd bet there are folks on here who'd only be looking for 3 things, you, a rope, and a tree! :grin:

Does the size (and abundance) of the game we're talking about make a "difference" here?

[Limbhanger]

Suckerfish, I am sorry but, I kind of think it is a common courtesy issue. Both for your fellow hunters sharing the air space and the courtesy to the birds to take high percentage kill shots. Just because a bird is generally around your setup doesnt mean you should shoot. The constant blasting makes birds over other setups nervous and not work well. Everyone likes to shoot, but if it is practice you are after or you just like hearing your ears ring from lots of gun shots go to the range more often. 7 ducks in 7 shots makes you a stud, 3 boxes and a few cripples makes you a dud.

[billc_sbio]

Suckerfish, I am sorry but, I kind of think it is a common courtesy issue. Both for your fellow hunters sharing the air space and the courtesy to the birds to take high percentage kill shots. Just because a bird is generally around your setup doesnt mean you should shoot. The constant blasting makes birds over other setups nervous and not work well. Everyone likes to shoot, but if it is practice you are after or you just like hearing your ears ring from lots of gun shots go to the range more often. 7 ducks in 7 shots makes you a stud, 3 boxes and a few cripples makes you a dud.

EXACTLY!

Well said Limbhanger!

IF those birds are coming in to the area, that's because they probably want to LAND!

Much of the time, they will!

It's the shooters, who shoot at them, beyond "practical" range that educate them to stay waaay up there!

It's only a matter of waiting them out...eventually they WILL come down!

If they're allowed to come down, within range, then you "educate" them a different way...in your kitchen. :grin:

If I happen to be hunting and my particular blind site isn't where they want to work, if I can, I move. If I can't I let the guys, who are getting the shooting, do their shooting and hopefully limit out quickly.

That way, they pick up and maybe there's a chance that now my site is more attractive to the ducks, or I can move to their site.

If that doesn't work, I simply pick up and see if I can't go somewhere else.

No reason to ruin other hunter's chances just because I want to hear my gun go bang!

[Rank Amateur]

Target shooters during biggame seasons make my short list!

[suckerfish]

Well, I don't know why everone has their panties in a bunch. Heck, if you don't like it go find some private property to hunt. As long as I am hunting with in the limits of the law, I just don't see what the big deal is. I get more offended when there is a guy in the other blind trying to cast his dog with 100's of verbale commands at the top of his lungs. After given me a serman on the quality breeding and all the professional training the dog had, while scoffing at my dog. But at least my dog gets the job done with out much hollaring. Heck, that surely scares more ducks than me shooting a winger at less than 70 yards. And why would someone target shooting during the big game season upset you! I just don't get alll this. I guess Im just a little more tolarant of others. And, As far as your senerio with the bull elk; I would take that shot every time. The way I look at is without taking the shot, you have 0% chance of killing it. However, if you take the shot you have better than 30% but less than 40% chance of putting meat in the freezer. Those are percentages that I can live with. With the big rifles of today, you don't even have to hit the vitals to kill them. There is alot of energy in those rounds. And its very unlikely that I would shoot an animal much more than a few hundred feet from the road, it makes packing the animal out much easier. :whazzup:

suckerfish

[gottafish]

WOw, :whazzup: I thought you were kidding at first. I am not even going to say what I think of your ethics as I would be banned from the site. I will say that we are all dumber for haveing read that and May god have mercey on your sole I will add that guys like you are the reason I bow hunt

[Ni!]

WOw, :whazzup: I thought you were kidding at first. I am not even going to say what I think of your ethics as I would be banned from the site. I will say that we are all dumber for haveing read that and May god have mercey on your sole I will add that guys like you are the reason I bow hunt

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Ni!

[Hunt'nFish]

Suckerfish,
I'm not a pure as the driven snow in the ethics dept. Done some things in my younger years I'd not even think to do today. But what you describe is not cool. Every game animal/bird deserves the best shot we can give them....or none at all.
Cheers and I hope you reconsider.
Hunt'nFish

[Limbhanger]

The only think I can agree with the Ol' Suckerfish on is the screaming at the dog thing. That is annoying and what a bummer for the dog. Me and my partner have literally laughed out loud listening to this as it goes on and on sometimes. What makes it even funnier is the guy is also blasting away on his whistle. Dumb-Dumb probably doesnt do squat with the dog all year then expects a field trial champion because after all, it is a hunting dog darn it.

[Rank Amateur]

Is somebody fishing for suckers here????

[baltz526]

As far as your senerio with the bull elk; I would take that shot every time. The way I look at is without taking the shot, you have 0% chance of killing it. However, if you take the shot you have better than 30% but less than 40% chance of putting meat in the freezer. Those are percentages that I can live with. With the big rifles of today, you don't even have to hit the vitals to kill them. There is alot of energy in those rounds. And its very unlikely that I would shoot an animal much more than a few hundred feet from the road, it makes packing the animal out much easier.

this is a very thinly veiled attempt at starting an aurgument. on a subject that is obviously not real. if a shooter was to take shots with this type of expected success, they would be charged with waste of game at the least, and a long list of related charges. big game animals have much stricter rules regulating methods of harvest, than birds. for good reason.now if you are actually admiting you use this practice, if you would just post your 2006 hunting lic# on this thread and we can get your hunts monitored