Salt water fly rod and reel suggestions

[bajadan2000]

Thinking of carring a heavy duty fly rod and reel as an option set up for tuna and yellowtail fishing.

I have never used one for this type of fishing and need help as to which brands and models would work best. I would like to stay in the mid price range, what ever that turns out to be.

Thanks for you help.

[skein]

Well, Dan, I went the cheapo route, and I'll be glad to give a report - when I finally get to try it!

I have a 12wt graphite rod, nice, but not expensive, with interchangeable fighting butts, and a salmon mooching reel that I pressed into service. I fully expect it to break both my thumbs faster than the godfather, so the money I saved can go to the doctors. :grin:

I have a floating line, figuring I can add weight or an interchangeable sink tip if needed. My backing is 50lb Izorline ('bout a mile) and I built the tapered leader myself, culminating in a 20lb tippit.

The technique I've heard about is to lay it out there and strip like hell, but I'm going to try just letting it sink, a la swimbaits, with an occasional jig. As of now I'm looking for flies to use.

If I catch one, you and the rest of the 'Dogs won't need a radio to hear my report! ('Course the whooping and hollaring might be my screams because of thumb damage)

I'll bring it to the convention.

Skein

[bajadan2000]

Thanks Skein,

I am thinking this could be a very fun way to catch Tuna.

Hope to hear you hollaring a lot next season.

PS> I have had several situations (maybe 2% of the time) in Baja were the only thing that might have worked on the yellowtail circling my boat would have been a fly. Everything I tried, including live bait scared them away.

[blazerman]

Echo makes a fine rod, and they are a local company too. $140 gets you a great rod with a great warranty. I've got the 10wt I use for chinook and love it. They make a 12 and 14 which would probably be better for your application. Temple Fork Outfitters also makes some great rods in that price range. Saltwater Fly reels can be very expensive. The minimum you'd want is something like a Teton Tioga Magnum which runs in the $150 range for that size, I'd consider these reels a best buy in flyfishing for any application. I've never fished tuna so I can't tell you anything about lines, but I'd use some kind of 50lb braid as backing. Much smaller so you can fit a lot more on the reel than dacron, and I'd assume you'd want at least 300 yards. Ifish sponsor River City Fly shop has all these brands, and Echo is actually out of Vancouver. I don't know anything about tuna flies, I'd assume some kind of big clouser or something, but I'm sure there is a lot of info out there on the net. Feel free to pm me if you have any other question.

Good luck, tuna on the fly sounds like a blast.

[bajadan2000]

Blazerman

Good help, thankyou. I just needed some place to start and you have given me that.

I am way over my head here when it comes to flyfishing. As for flies, not sure on Tuna, however the Yellowtail were chasing 2" long white to translucent minnow type bait fish. Probably want a fly around that size or smaller since everything else larger is covered by swimbaits, iron and such.

[skein]

I can tell you one thing; that 12wt rod gets pretty heavy after awhile. It ain't delicate stuff for sure. Loading it up and trying to do a double-haul is going to require some toning up of very specific muscles. :tongue:

Of course they can rest while you're fighting a tuna - with every other muscle in your body!

PS. I got my Cabela's flyfishing catalog a couple of days ago, and might order an Enricho's Mackerel on the bottom right of page 98, along with a Chubby Gummy Green on the bottom of page 97. (BOE, are you listening?)

Skein

[Two Fister]

Bajadan,
There's lots of options when it comes to saltwater flyrods, reels, and lines. And a huge range of prices. The biggest check for chasing tuna should probably go into your reel. A 12 weight rod is going to cast like a broomstick whether it's built by Temple Fork Outfitters or Winston. Some have better guarentees than others, but a 12 weight is a 12 weight rod in my opinion.

The reel, on the other hand, can seize or literally shatter when a saltwater fish gets moving. It doesn't have to be a $750 Abel or $700 Bauer, but a decent saltwater rated reel will go a long way towards making the attempt more enjoyable. You don't want to have the fish take one run while your reel melts. If Tuna are as fast and strong as I've heard I think Skein should invest in one of those bomb squad/land mine clearing suits before he gets sprayed by graphite shrapnal. I really like the Scientific Anglers reels and they are relatively inexpensive. A Sci Anglers 12/13 weight reel is only $210. If you are going to get addicted to flyfishing for saltwater fish (which you likely will) you might want to step up a bit on the reel, but I've yet to wear out a Sci Angler reel. Goodness knows I've tried.

Their spare spools are inexpensive as well so you can get a fast and intermediate sink tip, a floating line, and a shooting head setup. There are lots of nice multi-tip flylines made by all the major manufacturers. They are nice as you don't need any spare spools. I especially like the lines made by Rio. Since you head down south for some of your fishing, you may want to look into both cold water and warm water versions of the lines. I can feel your bank account dwindling as I type....

So many fly patterns to consider....I'm getting dizzy just thinking about it. I'll try to get some pictures up of some patterns that should work. Check out the excellent website that is maintained by Umpqua Feather Merchants. You can search for fly patters by species. Look at the section labeled Dorado, Tuna, Roosters. Multiple colors of deceivers, bucktails, needlefish, surface poppers, etc. Most of the patterns for Tuna will do double duty for dorado, Roosterfish, and other species down in Baja.

This is a whole other world for you Dogs that is just as addictive as Tuna. Combine the two and lives will be ruined...

I've got all the gear (rods, reels, lines, flies, etc) so I'd be happy (more than happy) to show you how to use them some time if you want to let me tag along on a Tuna trip. Please, pretty please?

TF

[skein]

Two Fister,

Great info! Thanks! Can't wait to see the patterns you post.

Uh...you are coming to the TA Convention, aren't you?

Skein

[BigWaterBigFish]

... two years ago when we had that crazy coho run offshore, watched a guy with a heavy salt water fly rod "toss" a large mylar fly over some of the swells, then pull it through the water toward the boat (he was drifting, standing out on the bow area) .. BAM .. fish on and what a sight ... would some of what you guys are listing be applicable to this ???

[bajadan2000]

Two Fister

If you bring everthing we need to fly-fish for Tuna and show me how it is done, you have the next open seat on Bay Dreamin'. That would be a good way for me to see what and how to use it, before I start spilling more boat bucks.

Would also like to see what works on Salmon. Not only to fly-fish for them here, most everything that catches Salmon will also catch Yellowtail, except for flatfish type lures.

Looking forward to the pictures.

Do not worry about ruining my life. I am way beyond help.

[skein]

BigWaterBigFish,

That same year I was catching coho just out from Newport with my 8wt flyrod and some coho-flash flies. Even caught a small chinook. Talk about a hoot! I, too, was by myself, and getting the boat shut down and dragging out the net, all while wrestling a really po'd coho was a real dance contest. My laughter is still echoing around out there. :grin:

Nothing like watching that big angry swirl right behind your fly.

Skein

[bajadan2000]

"PS. I got my Cabela's flyfishing catalog a couple of days ago, and might order an Enricho's Mackerel on the bottom right of page 98, along with a Chubby Gummy Green on the bottom of page 97. (BOE, are you listening?)"

Skein

[/quote]

Just found some time to look into the Cabela's flyfishing catalog. Nice looking flies. Do you think they have strong enough hooks to hold Tuna?

Just so happens I have been saving up my Cabela club points. This catalog could be very dangerous. What does it mean when Cabela's sends you a hard bound version of their catalog?

[FASTWATER]

I pm'ed you some info let me know if you don't get it!!!PEACE

[bajadan2000]

FASTWATER,
Got it, thanks for the info.

[skein]

Fastwater - would that pm'd info be something I might be interested in? I don't want to intrude, but I'm absolutely commited to catching a tuna on the fly next year and need all the info I can get.

For example, I'm rethinking the mooching reel because I don't relish the idea of a graphite bomb going off in my hand.

Share with us, man, share! :grin:

Skein

[tomictime]

... two years ago when we had that crazy coho run offshore, watched a guy with a heavy salt water fly rod "toss" a large mylar fly over some of the swells, then pull it through the water toward the boat (he was drifting, standing out on the bow area) .. BAM .. fish on and what a sight ... would some of what you guys are listing be applicable to this ???

I posted "Streamers - dad's Art" a few days ago - see that for Polarbear hair bucktails and streamer flies for Coho, Kings, I would expect Tuna to inhale them also...those are the flies, that is the same deal, only we use 6-7 WT fiberglas rods...with big Coho..

Also, and here the purists may cringe, we would also rig them w small spoons in the downrigger..like 2fister says, there are WHOLE worlds out there....

JD

[FASTWATER]

P.Med you also skein it is a friend of mine that I recommend for any fly related info with a phone number and web page address and I know board policy so don't want to upset Jenny any other specific info you are looking for Pm me and I will try to help you out anyway I can!!!PEACE

[skein]

Got it, Fastwater, and thanks - for the info and for being so aware of the Ifish advertising policies.



Skein

[tomictime]

[greenbuttskunk]

try to pick up a penn international, in the 12wt. I think it would run about 175.00-200.00 Then get a good 12wt. reel with a really good drag system.

[OuterLimits]

I am going to use my Islander ARM2 reel with 20-25# on a Diawa 10.5' Mooching rod. Almost tried it last year, but hesitated to bring it along. I figure, since I already use it for coho and chinook, it should be a hoot for tuna!! If the tuna are boiling next to the boat it will not take long to get hit. I was thinking that flies or streamers as previously shown by Tomictime would really work quite well!!

[Two Fister]

Arrgh!!! I've never had trouble uploading pictures before, but I can't get the picture of the flies that I took last night to load. The system either tells me that it can't find the ifish page or it shows that it's done with the upload but the picture never shows up. The file is less than 200kb and is in a jpeg format. Anybody have any ideas on what's wrong?

[skein]

Email 'em to me and I'll see if I can get 'em up. We really want to see them.

crottsj@ml.linnbenton.edu

Skein

[Two Fister]

Well I'm not sure what I did differently, but I got a lower resolution version to come through. Maybe it was the incense, chicken feet, and drums that helped. Nothing like a bit of voodoo to make a computer work...

[image][/image]

The reel in the background is my 12/13 weight Scientific Anglers. It's a standard arbor reel and is 4" in diameter for reference. Rather than buying a large arbor reel, I usually by a standard arbor of a slightly larger size. The weight is slightly off, but I'm not worried about making delicate casts with my 12 weight broom handle and anchor rope 12 weight line. I take up the extra space with additional backing, thus sort of creating a large arbor reel with additional backing in case of the unexpected phelagic fish...Hey a guy can dream can't he?

If you look at the reel in the background you can see the orange backing. That'd be about 400 yards of 30 pound gel spun backing. I've found that the working strength of gel spun is much higher than the rating as long as it hasn't sat on the reel for too long.

A great...now you guys have got me looking at the calendar...how'd I get the addiction without having even been Tuna fishing yet?

TF

[tomictime]

cool

[skein]

Wouldn't this be fun?

Bluefin on the Fly - 'bout 70lbs


The site I stole this picture from also shows catching false albacore FROM SHORE! Holy Moly!

Skein

[bajadan2000]

OH NO,,,,WOW,,,,was not ready for this one Skein. You should warn a guy first.
Having to use a fighting belt with a fly rod. Now thats fishing!!!!!!!!!

TwoFister,
Thanks for the fly picks, they look very nice, and will look even better on my boat!!!!! Can not wait to team up!!

Flyfisherman and Saltyfisherman working together on the same boat. It is about time!!!!!

[tailchaser]

I'm actually going to be chasing marlin/sails/tuna on the fly here in a couple of weeks in S.Mexico. I'm planning on coming to the TA meeting in Feb. so I'll bring the video, pics, and flies that we found to be successful. I can't wait! I'm tying several every night and I think I have some dynamite patterns so far, but the real deal is only a week and a half away!!!!!

tc

[tomictime]

Flyfisherman and Saltyfisherman working together on the same boat. It is about time!!!!!

[/quote]

Several charters / Lodges specialize in this sort of thing up here, one out of Neah bay and Weigh West at Tofino - might be a way to check it out without taking the big gear plunge....MORE tackle....cool...

Let me know if you want a pic of the boats they use for salty fly fishing...

JD

[bajadan2000]

"Several charters / Lodges specialize in this sort of thing up here, one out of Neah bay and Weigh West at Tofino - might be a way to check it out without taking the big gear plunge....MORE tackle....cool...

JD

[/quote]

------------------------------------------------------------

JD,

Thank you for the information. I will be in Neah Bay for the Halibut opener. When you find time, I would like the name of the charter there and will look them up. Always nice to see how the pros do it.

There are a lot of expert fly fisherpersons right here on the Ifish Flyfishers forum, including big time saltwater fly fisherpersons. They have really stepped up and given us Salty Dogs a big helping hand. Just wanted everyone to know that I appreciate it. Even though both of our groups are part of the Ifishers, it allways seemed to me that we were on friendly, but opposite ends of things. Nice to work together.

[garyk]

Bajadan, as you know the pressure exerted by salty fish on a flyrod is just unbelievable. Off eBay I picked up some SAGE 12wts for about $250 each.

I've got more confidence though in some Lami Blue Water series flyrods, also from eBay for ~$70. These are glass composites, kinda the Ugly Stiks of flyrods (if these break, whatever's on the other end can stay in the ocean ).

The SAGE's will cast well when you need to, the Lami Blue Waters are more for trolling flies.

For the reels, I picked up a series of Redington large-arbor reels, three pairs, with 12/13 the largest. Paid between $70 and $95 for each on eBay (Redington was sold and a ton of their stock hit the market just as I was looking to buy).

Hoping to try some of this gear on Mexican sailfish in the coming months.

[Two Fister]

Several charters / Lodges specialize in this sort of thing up here, one out of Neah bay and Weigh West at Tofino -

The folks at Weigh West are chasing these fellas

[image][/image]

This was caught near Tofino casting a red and white clouser minnow on a sinking line into the midst of a bait ball that was being torn apart by coho. This guy absolutely inhaled the fly and was the culprit behind a nice scar that was burned into the tip of my index finger where my line ran across it. Took my fly line and a 100 yards of backing off of my 8 weight with an Islander reel before I could even think to palm the reel. You could hear the line shearing through the water. He got at least 5 feet out of the water a half dozen times before coming to the net. It was also the first salmon that I've caught on the boat that bought from Steelie69 last year.

The fly was stuck in his gills and he was bleeding pretty badly so he went into the fish box. Hence the delicate grip on his gills It's an area that's open to the retention of native fish, but I typically throw high finners back. Last year was apparently one of the worst years inside near Tofino in decades. Hopefully it's better this year when I head up there again!

That bluefin is crazy! I'm sure that guy is sitting down for the photo because he couldn't stand up any longer! False Albacore (Fat Alberts) are tons of fun to catch but they are a lot smaller than Pacific Albacore. I can't wait to give that a try this summer!

TF

[skein]

I'm thinking this isn't delicate stuff though, like bonefish on the flats or tarpon at Boca Grande. I don't think we have to throw that far, nor that precisely to hook up with albacore. Just get it out there when the fish are boiling and let it sink, adding an occasional twitch to make it look different and more vulnerable.

Time will tell, but I have about 120 dollars invested in my setup including the flyline. Nope, it's not a Sage/Abel nor a Rio line, but it's going to get me out there, and should last through at least one hookup. :grin:

I'm just a little tuna-bird, cheep, cheep, cheep.

Skein

[Two Fister]

Skein,
I think you are right on the money (sorry I couldn't resist the pun). Speciecs like tuna (and other bluewater fish such as sails, dorado, etc) are typically teased or chummed into the boat before making a cast with a flyrod. Best thing to practice is being able to pick up and cast your line quickly and with decent accuracy. It doesn't have to be pretty, but the more line that gets out the better a chance of hooking a schooling fish.

Something else that's important is learing how to clear your flyline once the fish starts running. You'll typically have extra line that you've stripped in or that you are holding in your hand when gettting ready to cast. When you hook a fish that weighs 25 pounds and can swim 50 MPH that line becomes a whole separate management issue. It can tear the rod out of your hand or tear the guides off your rod if it goes through in a knot. It can also break your finger if one gets caught in a loop. I've gotten my finger caught in a loose loop of fly line on a steelhead and I thought my finger was going to pop off. It's part of the reason that I don't use spectra or tuffline as backing. That stuff is just too sharp to handle with bare hands.

I have a friend here in Bend that flyfishes a lot in Baja. He likes to tie his line to the collar of his lab and throw a tennis ball for the dog to practice dealing with the loose line. He catches all kinds of fish right off the rocky points along the beach as well as kinds of fish from his boat.

How many days is it again until tuna?

TF

[tomictime]

Bajadan2000

It was topwater charters, google them and they still have working website but are not doing this anymore. They appear to be selling gear. They do point to another outfit who are still doing some flyfish trips out of Neah. Bummer, while I never fished w this outfit they had great rep. They have some interesting things to say about "school" guys who also post here now and then...diff thread I guess...

Here is the Weigh West fleet for fly stuff. They have offshore stuff also.

[SSPey]

fly fishing for tunoids is too much fun. I have found in Baja and Atlantic waters that it helps to strip really fast, often two handed, to get the fish interested in chasing. Sometimes a stagger retrieve will work, but usually faster is better. Even had a good day of taking skipjack on surface flies (crease fly) ... dry fly fishing for tuna!

If anyone has an open seat I'd love to tag come along. I've got tackle and plenty of flies.

[bajadan2000]

SSPey
I agree, when fishing in Baja everything moves fast, fast trolling, fast swimming live bait, fast yo-yoing iron. Why would flyfishing be a slow thing when fast as possible catches more fish?

[SSPey]

can't say I've used them, but hardcore salty fly fishers have been very pleased with the TFO Bluewater series ($250). They don't have fragility problems that I've heard of some other TFO rods under stress. They're a mix of graphite and fiberglass, built primarily as fish fighting machines. They have the much-needed foregrip for winching up tuna that fight in big deep death spirals.

whatever rod you choose, get the foregrip if you plan to fight tuna.

[OuterLimits]

Tomictime,
Nice pic!!
Looks like a picture of one of the "Farm properties!!"

[FASTWATER]

Just remember you actually get what you pay for I have blown up sage 13# on dorado and landed sailfish on the same rod hooking fish once you figure out a few technics isn't hard know landing them is another adventure, one of the number one tips I can give on tuna is start with a fairly light drag on the 1st run and as soon as they slow down you really got to put the screws to them!!! I have learned with tuna if you keep your rod low and pull sideways instead of over head pumping they will stay up and pull to one side or the other instead of doing a circle action!! Tip #2 I always use floating lines and add split shots for extra weigh this way it is quicker and easier to cast rather than using sinking or weighted fly lines which are kind of a hassel when you are on a quick situation on a chance for a fly shot> For novices that want to just get hookups on the fly rods this is what I like to do,when you are trolling plastics or feathers in your normal gear fishing scenerio I like to do what they call the slide when you hook up on the troll this is just grab your fly rod and just start letting out line in the prop wash letting it run out behind the boat I use poppers alot which is just backer rod 3/4" cut about a inch long and slide down on top of my fly sort of like a rag for steelheading if it is on these will just get slammed believe me and like mentioned before keep your fingers out of the way be cause the 1st run is usually a good 75 yards much the same as if your bait fishing ever notice the 1st bait that hits the water on the slide always gets bit!!!PEACE

[tomictime]

Tomictime,
Nice pic!!
Looks like a picture of one of the "Farm properties!!"

A bit off-topic..but this is the "farm team" Less than an hours "work" at Portland Pt..."one over, one under rule in effect"..dunno how that Coho got in there - must a been inside caught dinner...memory is a fleeting..thing..


JD

[skein]

Stripping fast eh? I've heard guys actually hold the rod with their knees so they can strip with both hands, just to keep the speed up.

But I'm going to try the opposite.

When we throw fishtraps ... er swimbaits, we simply let 'em sink, giving them a little twitch once in a while. I had a tuna take a swimbait right at the back of the boat while I was just dropping it a foot or two, checking the action. No 90mph retrieves, no long throws, no spot landings, just bobbing it up and down two feet under the boat.

So.... I think I'm going to try just letting my fly sink like a swimbait, with that magic twitch every few seconds. Let the line carry it down, nose first, just like a swimbait falls, with a light, invisible leader. Let it drop to around 40 ft or so, then a quick retrieve up toward the surface, only to let it fall again.

If we've got the right pattern, I think we'll catch fish.

Skein

[bajadan2000]

Thanks for the the tip Skein, I have been fishing too far from the boat.

Same tech. works on Do-Dos (Dorado). They will sit under your boat and waite patiently untill your lure gets to about 2' from the boat to try and steal it. Lazy rascles.

A little tip back at you. When eating your lunch, do not leave the fly or swim bait hanging over the side of the boat and just in the water, or you will never finish your sandwich. Those darn fish can be real thieves at times.

[OuterLimits]

A bit off-topic..but this is the "farm team" Less than an hours "work" at Portland Pt..."one over, one under rule in effect"..dunno how that Coho got in there - must a been inside caught dinner...memory is a fleeting..thing..
JD

Yep, right on!! I thought I smelled something!! Some of those farm animals look like real pigs!!