Rifle for the Boy

[gottafish]

My son is 12 and is in hunters safty and is about to enbark on his dream of hunting. I want to get him a rifle he can shoot elk and deer with. I think my 7mm Mag is a bit of a arm killer. Any Recommendations? He is a good sized for being 12 he is about 5'5" and 125 lb and He can handle a 12 gauge But the biggest rifle he has shot is a 22. I don't want to go the 30-30 route I have seen some bad performance from them and I have no faith in them on elk. I know they have killed a ton of them but think eastern oregon desert and mule Deer I was thinking a .270 Might be the way to go but I have never owned one and To be honest I don't know enought about rifles to make this choice any help will be welcome thanks Rich

[Fish Hawg]

I like the 7mm08s w/ 120gr nosler Ballistic tips for deer. It's a hot little round with little kick. just My $0.08

[HntnFsh]

.270s are great.I got 1 for my kid and I usually grab it when he's not using it.Brought down several deerand elk with it.Another good option is the 30-06.probbly the most popular cartrige ever.And for good reason.

[KingFisher85]

Well, if he was just hunting deer, you can't beat the ol 243win

[salmurai]

The 30/06 is a good all around cartridge. Recoil would depend on your son. My son felt OK with mine and was only about 5' and a 110lbs when he started shooting it. I made sure the stock fit him and he had hearing protection during all practice sessions. He did shoot a .243 for a while before moving up. He now shoots a .338 and is only about 5'6" and 150lbs. I think the hearing protection made a bigger difference than the actual recoil. jmho Good Luck....

[periwinkle]

When my son was 14 we set him up with a 7x57 (not mag. Can't remember if was a Remington or Ruger.. Anyways he has bagged both deer and elk with it..

[FISHNAKED]

Rich:

You might check into the 6.5x55 swedish mouser, mild recoil and very,very accurate. I'm not sure about the knock down power on elk but I've read that it will do the job. This is the cal. I plan to get for my daughter. Can't wait.

[Grantspastor]

The .270 is a stellar performer on deer sized animals. I love mine!. For deer and elk a 30:06 would probably be a better choice. You could also consider a .308 or any of the other calibers listed in the other posts. None of them have a punishing recoil. You are wise not to get him a 30-30...jsut not enough gun.

[35WLN]

My first rifle was a 30-06 and so was my dads. They are great and highly versatile. To start off just use lighter bullets like the 150s and gradually work up. The recoil isn't bad as I remember it, ofcourse I wanted to prove to my dad and his freinds I was tough. I have an extra 30-06 that is brand new in the box just laying around. It is a remington 700 detachable mag engraved stainless. Surely a gun for a youngster to keep for the rest of his life. Email me at adam35fan@netzero.net if interested.

[C-lice]

I agree on the 7mm/08, but I see no reason not to shoot heavier bullets.

I shoot a 162 grain Hornady @ 2600 FPS. Its trajectory is virtually identical to the 139 grain 7mm @ 2800 FPS (26 inches low @ 400 yards vs 25 inches low @ 400 yards) compared to 23 inches low for a 130 grain .270 at 2900 FPS the same range.

However, with the 162 grain 7mm/08 I have more than 250 more foot-pounds than the .270 with 130 grains @ 400 yards. In fact, the 7/08 with 162s retains more downrange energy than my 180 grain .30-06 loads!

And, best of all (to me) the gun has very mild recoil, even with the 162 grain bullets. I've not tried the gun on Elk, but it has put down two antelope and one blacktail buck right where they were hit. I haven't recovered a bullet in any of the animals, including one killed @ 225 yards.

[Flatfish]

250 Savage( personal fav)
257 Roberts.
25-06
260 Remington( pretty much perfection in a youth deer cartridge)
6.5x55
270( if he can deal with the 270. You don't need to worry about an elk rifle)
7mm08
7x57
280 Rem( as good as the 270)
308 Win
30-06.

Anything bigger than a 260 rem is more than needed on deer. But the 260 is a touch light on elk. It would do in a pinch though. the 270 is just big enough to call it a real elk rifle.

Flat shooting is overplayed 95% of the time. Heavy recoil is underplayed 95% of the time.

Mark and the magnum sized dog.

[ICHTHYDEMON]

Maybe try your 7mag with 140gr. bullets. The 7mag really doesn't kick any worse than an 06. He might surprise you and be able to shoot it well.

You might also look into the new loads from Remington and Federal. They have taken some popular chamberings and reduced the performance level of the load. They've reduced the powder level and bullet weight to create a light-recoil hunting load. The Remington .270Win load has a 115gr bullet that has almost 1200lbs of energy at 200yds. They also have a 125gr 30-06 load that has the same amount of energy at 200yds.

[Fish Hawg]

The 7mm08 w/ 120gr nosler ballistic tips We shoot are chronographed @ 3030fps and never had a problem with it and will never change something that works to good. My Dad, Brother, Uncle,And I All use that round for deer and My Uncle also uses it for antolope.

It has droped evey one right were they were standing. Have shot Deer out to and over 300 yards. They all fall right were they were standing.

Mule deer I think 3 or 4
Blacktail 11
Antolope 2

I even shot a buck at 220 yards in the sholder, it blew through the first sholder a and broke the other one.

Flatfish's list but with the .308 as first choice and 7mm08 as #2.

[Scaup]

Lots of good input and advice.

I'm biased as my first rifle was a .308. At age twelve I was 4'11" and 83lbs (I was a late grower) and the kick was not a problem. It's a great rifle and I still use it today many, many years later.

[danger]

I think any of the guns mentioned will do great for your son. My personal fav is the 270. This is what my dad started me on and it is extremely versatile. I buy 100 grain bullets for it and shoot coyotes, these are also great on deer.

As far as an elk gun, this is plenty. With a young man going out on an elk hunt keep in mind the distances that you will want him to shoot. A max of 150 yards and that 270 will be plenty of gun. When he gets older let him shoot long distance with a bigger gun.

PS Don't talk about the recoil too much with him. It will kind of psyche him out and he will concentrate on it and not the squeeze. If he is worried reassure him, but don't make it an issue. Also do not shot to long on any practice trips. Shoot 10-15 rounds at the most and then pick up the 22, practicing the fundamentals of rifle shooting is just as good on a rimfire rifle.

Dan(ger)

Recoil:
When my son was 7 he wanted to shoot "his" rifle, a 7x57. We told him to hold it tight to his shoulder and squeeze the trigger. He held it a bit off his shoulder and he flipped over from the recoil. Nerta grabbed the rifle as he flipped over. Willie (son) looked up at Nerta and me and with his eyes WIDE OPEN said, "Cool".
I guess he is as dumb as his dad, "No brain, no pain". His next shot was much better as he learned something with the first shot. He is now 13 and the best shot in his scout troop. He wants to shoot my 375x8mm and my 416 Dakota but at less than 90lbs I think we will wait.

[Cosmic Lazy Susan]

I'd choose a .308 or .270 based on my limited personal experence.

Recoil is not to bad and both are capable killers and capable of good accuracy.

Had a .308 and killed a lot of deer with it. I feel the recoil on the .308 shooting 150gr was lighter than my .270 with 130gr.

I just like the .270 better, can't really tell you why. Just feel good shooting it.

Dale

[dla]

Get a rifle in a reasonable caliber say .308, 30-06, .270W. Take the stock recoil brick off and put on a Pachmayer Decelerator. Follow Id.Painter's advice and get a controlled feed action (Winchester M70, Howa, CZ, Browning BLR). Buy some ear plugs. Make sure your son has an opportunity to light off about 100rnds before you go hunting. Make it fun, but make sure he learns to operate the gun in field conditions. Let him zap some water-filled milk jugs :smile: Please pick up the mess afterwards though, as that is another important lesson.

[tag-a-long]

Might look into the 257 weatherby. Nice shooter. Plenty of knockdown and not too much kick.

[2 bit Hook'r]

We Welcome you son to hunting,
My son is 13 and in the same boat. I think your notion of a .270 is spot on. I shoot a 700 Remington when in open country And a fast handling Rem 760 pump carbine in brush country. I have bagged a six-point bull and also several cows (different years)using the pump. Also many deer and cyote have fallen victom to the bolt gun. I have just purchased a Rem 700 in .243 Win with a custom inlayed stock (shorter)to get my son started before graduting him to the .270's. I own many more powerfull guns, including a custom built .338-06 pump, yet I seem to reach for the .270's most often, and have never felt under powered in Oregon.

[elkman]

270 is a great gun for beginners and experts alike. thats what i shot my first half dozen deer with. great gun, and with the modern bullet technology they have become even better. :smile:

[Fish Hawg]

You can also try a .280 rem I use 140 gr nosler ballistic tips. The recoil is not as sharp it pushes more than it kicks.

[Norm]

My son is small and only weighs about 75LBS, so I went with a shortened 30-30 for him until he grows a litle. For your son, you might take a look a 6.5x55 or a .308. Both would make a good elk/deer gun at moderate ranges. I would look for something a little on the heavy side to reduce the recoil.

[Sharted]

Seems there are quite a few knowledgable people out there given you some great info. I personally would not shoot any caliber less than a 270 at elk. Probably more important, would be to practice as much as possible so he will be comfortable with your weapon of choice. Any of the calibers mentioned, placed in the kill zone will humanely harvest deer or elk! Enjoy your hunts and be safe.

SMILES :smile:

[id. painter]

Any caliber you want, up to about 338, just load it to what he can manage for recoil. Then make sure its a mdl. 70 win. :grin: Hi ho. id. p.

[winterkill]

My dad always told me you don't feel the kick. I didn't believe it until I started shooting at deer and elk and my gun quit kicking.

[goforchrome]

7mm-08 would be perfect.
120gr for deer, 140 gr Hornady Light Mag for Elk.
If you reload, you can use same bullets and some dies.
Great cartridge...does everything a .270 does and can be made in a short-action rifle.
Look at Tikka.

[Washington Hunter]

The nice thing about the 270 is you can buy a box of cartridges anywhere and cheap. I handload for my 270 but I still like to have the option of going to Wal-Mart and buying a box of the Winchester's with the Power Point bullets (either the 130's or 150's) for $12. These are just as accurate as my reloads...1/2 to 1 inch groups at 100 yards, and they have a reputation for being good hunting bullets.

Now, about the theory that a rifle doesn't kick when you're shooting at game...I won't argue with that as I don't notice the recoil then either, but the thing is the kid is going to need to shoot a rifle enough before going hunting so that when he is hunting he will be able to hit something. So really he needs a rifle that does not hurt while he is shooting at the range.

[Silver Eagle]

Guys he said he didn't know much about guns, why a wildcat cartridge like 7mm08 obviouly he dosn't reload, get a good inexpensive 308, 30-06 or a 270 catridges are real affortable and they are the most popular with most hunters. The 308 is a real good gun and for his size might be great, I think its a little light for Elk but as a first gun hard to beat. Ray

[StickFish]

Sounds to me like he's going to bankrupt you on the groceries if your not careful

270 or 30-06 you can't go wrong. Since he's big now and going to grow and you looking for the one do all rifle for Elk and Deer - 30-06 would be my choice.

Course I'm partial to the WSM's but those aren't too popular on this board so I won't start that up.

With the 06, use 165 grain well built bullets for both deer and elk. Bullets like the Nosler Partition, Swift A-Frame, Trophy Bond Bear Claw, Swift Scirocco. If you hand load there are reduced loads published for the 30-06 that would be a good introduction to the new rifle at the range. After he's got a feel for the rifle and his confidence is up, start ramping them up.

There is an old saying about a man with one rifle, "Watch out he knows how to shoot it."

Good luck and have fun.

Silver Eagle,

Remington standardized the 7mm-08 a long time ago and several manufactures build rifles in this caliber. I like my 7mm-08 but is is a custom built Ruger #1.

I still would recomend a 308 for his first rifle.

[ 02-07-2004, 08:59 AM: Message edited by: Keta ]

[blacktail]

My choices are exactly the same as Keta's. A .308 or 7-08 would be perfect if he will be using for deer and elk. The .308 would get the nod if he will be hunting much for elk.

Mike

[BigFishFever]

I would also have to recommend the 30-06.
This was my first "big" rifle that I bought with my own $.
I think I was 12-13 at the time, when I first fired it, Dad started me out with 150 grain bullets, and after I lit the first one off, and it rocked me back, I said YOUCH! I cant handle that...He then made me shoot his 300 Win Mag, and after recuperating, he handed the 06 back, and shot it again, and never complained about recoil again. But then again, my Dad was from the school of hard knocks

With some practice on recoil reducing stances, and allowing the entire body to take the load off, he would be fine with any of the above mentioned!

OO one last piece of advise, dry firing, with a snap pack in the chamber practices good alignment, trigger squeeze etc with out the recoil!

[oregonmuley]

I know you have received enough good info but can't help myself. The 7mm08 in the Remington M700 Mountain Rifle or Model Seven is a great rifle. Not too expensive and real accurate out of the box. I agree the ammo not as easy to find as 270. or as cheap but its a great caliber for deer and up to elk if within reasonable range. I bought a M700 Mountain rifle 7mm08 for my now ex-wife - she got rid of me but kept the rifle! Anyway, good luck with whatever you decide to buy, getting a new rifle is always fun.

The Model Seven only has one screw for the back scope base. The M700 Mt Rifle is nice.
7mm-08 ammo is fairly common, BiMart stocks it.

[Tvfowlhunter]

Go with the winchester model 70 270
it's what I learned on!!

[skeet]

If you want a gun that will last the years with him. Get him a large caliber rifle in a Browning automatic. The Recoil is greatly reduced, and a very accurate rifle. And if your worried about weight,it comes in synthetic which only weighs six or seven pounds. They are somewhat spendy, but will last forever.IMHO.