Oregonian Article Trapping, Bill Monroe

[Prawnasorus]

I read Bills article on "Trap check fairness needed". in todays Oregonian. It states some facts, but is vague on others. The Government Trappers are the people who want the longer trap check typically. They deal with stock killing coyotes, etc, over large areas. Maybe Bill could ride around with one of them and see what actually goes on. Also the states of Washington and California have outlawed Trapping except with Box Traps, and for predatory or animals causing damage. In Washington it is illegal to trap moles and gophers. However the Govenor has told his enforcement people to ignore that law?. How about writing something on BMP's ,"Best management practices" which are in the works for all states to use for humane trapping standards.
The statement about "unnentended catches", ethical trappers do their best to set traps in a manner to take only the target animals, and use traps that are the proper size to avoid injury to the animal. How about researching both sides of the coin more thoroughly.

[Jellyhead]

I agree with prawnasaurous. I am a trapper, and any extra time that a catch is in a trap, is time that that trap cannot make another catch. I run daily checks on my line, but there have been times due to high water, or snow that the extended check laws have saved my butt.

And also with the non-target catches.....If you have taken the trapper's ed. course that all trappers in oregon are required to take, (which I would bet money Bill hasn't taken) you would know that there are specific ways to exclude non-target catches. Why would non-target catches be acceptable to any trapper? Most trappers like myself do not want a trap that can catch a target animal, tied up with a non-target catch. There are many ways to make sure non-target catches do not happen.

Hopefully, people will understand this. Trappers provide a free service to the public, by remove surplus furbearers, providing damage control, and a renewable commodity (fur) that can clothe people without using petro or chemical means to create (like fake fur, or alot of other synthetic fabrics) To lose this service would be a great loss, and would be a great expense to the general public, by having to pay pofessionals to do this now-free service.

Don't belive me, just call a seattle area wildlife removal service and ask what it would cost to have a colony of beaver removed. $$$$$$

Aaron

[ 02-05-2004, 08:09 AM: Message edited by: Jellyhead ]

[Erich_870]

Got a link to the article?

[Prawnasorus]

http://www.oregonlive.com/search/ind...gonian?yspcbmo

[Bill Monroe]

There is no beef with trapping. It's an honorable, necessary profession and I'm the first to espouse the use of furs (I'm saving my coyotes for a coat or hand warmers) over non-renewable fossil fuels. I go out of the way to compliment anyone who wears fur. And I have covered trapping and written features about it. I know the distances involved and the issues. The question is one of fairness to the animal, whether it's a coyote or a mole. Needless suffering is unnecessary and a shame.

It looks like some of the sides in this issue are set on 48 hours, but there is a push for 76. The longer time is wrong. A perfect world would have 24. I'm hoping for 48. This shouldn't be a matter of convenience for the trapper...

[elkaholic]

I respectfully have to agree that in a perfect world that 24 hours of even 2 hours is ideal and the least suffering. This issue at ODFW is not about minimums but about maximums.

My experience with trapping is that when you are fur trapping, as a rule you check in 24 to 48 hours for several days until the dumb ones are all caught. I have even checked at 12 hour intevals on water creatures. When looking for fur, you then move on to a place where you find a bunch more critters.

When trapping to stop damage, you don't pull out and find another honey hole, you try different things and different intervals because the only thing between you and the catch is time for the human scent to disperse and human activity to cease, then you catch the wiley ole coyote. Usually you can check a trap set from a distance but not always. Why make lawbreakers out of the damage trappers who need to time just to catch the offender. They are not leaving the metal out to be cruel.

Ideally, in my mind is to keep a longer maximum statutorily and encourage a shorter actual "trap check". I think most of the time you'll find trappers to be very conscientous and they will keep the traps checked in 48 or less hours.

my .02

[ 02-03-2004, 07:15 AM: Message edited by: elkaholic ]

[Jellyhead]

Bill,

Thanks for replying to this thread. I know you've recieved alot of heat here on ifish for some of the articles you've written. I applaud you for having thicker skin than most.

Unfortunatly trappers are precieved as non-caring. I personally have spent a ton of time making my traps the most humane they can be by modifying them completley. They are triple swiveled, they have shock springs added, and the jaws are completely re-worked to prevent any damage to a furbearer.

It's too bad the only time an article does come up on the issue of trapping, It is focused on a negative issue. I can honestly tell you that most people's image of a trap is a tooth-jawed cartoon image from a warner brothers cartoon. Land owners are truly amazed to see me stick my own bare hand in one of my modified coyote traps, and not get my hand broke (because of the modifications).

If shortened check times will give trappers and trapping a better reputation, I'm all for it. But, I feel this is just the beginning of the anti-trapping movement building steam towards another ballot measure. I feel that more exposure on trappers and the methods they personally use to modify traps, and they're self imposed check limits will help trapper's more. Also, publicity of trappers helping land owners for FREE, would be nice too.

As trappers we will never change the minds of people who want to end trapping totally. It is the fence-sitters who will ulitimatly decide the fate of trapping. I'll gladly stick my hand in a coyote trap, and explain my methods to anyone on the fence.

Aaron

[Bill Monroe]

Aaron,
That would, indeed, be a good feature (not the hand in the trap, though)...I'd be happy to tackle it with you at some point. I don't sense the anti-trapping movement has gained or lost any steam as a result of 24-hour requirements in most other states...thanks to all for the thoughtful replies...I've been a little, umm, "skinned" by others around the state, but it's part of the territory.
Bill

[Gun Rod Bow]

I think Elkaholic's thoughts should be brought out on this issue. Too many times well intentioned thoughts have drastic effects without thinking through all the angles.

An exception for predators and/or damage control should be held up.

48 hours on furberrers is ok with me, but damage control and predators should be handled differently. Predators certainly don't have any concerns about "humanity".

[Bill Monroe]

So, if they're predators doing what comes naturally, they deserve what they get for doing something to humans? To potentially be in pain longer than something furry and useful? I don't quite get that...

[Gun Rod Bow]

Premature post :blush:

[ 02-04-2004, 09:34 PM: Message edited by: Gun Rod Bow ]

[Gun Rod Bow]

No Bill,

I'm not saying that at all. There are circumstances where a particular, target animal is causeing damgage by mercilessly, inhumanely and many times totally unaturally targeting animals that are not it's usual foodsource and those particular individual animals have been deemed to be needing of removal.

I have put down partially eaten calves that were still alive while their mother watched, and seen other things that may give me a different view than the "warm and fuzzy", "lets give all the animals a cute name" crowd. That experience aside, this looks to me like another issue where emotions and feelings could get in the way of needed management.

Not always pretty, but neither is nature. I would never justify a fur trapper not checking his rig daily. Please consider the input from some who live in it.

Peace

[Bill Monroe]

OK, I understand that better.
But remember that mercy and humanity are human qualities...the predator is simply doing what they do...whether or not the prey is of value to us or is unnatural for the predator...
Philosophical anomalies, I guess...

[dla]

Bill Monroe : As long as we city-dwelling, Willamete valley inhabiting, never-set-a-trap-in-our-life-types can keep our "warm & fuzzy inspired by Disney" irrational biases in check when we start talking about "mercy" and "humanity" - I think this issue can be addressed correctly.

[Bill Monroe]

dla,
I do too...
Be aware also that calling me a Disney bunny hugger is way worse than being called Mister...not that you were implying that, of course...

[Gun Rod Bow]

Thanks for the discourse Bill. I appreciate your willingness to discuss.

:smile: