2005 Blacktail Season...Public Input...

[Lured In]

From ODFW News Releases...

"Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife

For immediate release
Friday, January 30, 2004

Contact: Anne Pressentin Young (503) 947-6020, Fax (503) 947-6009
Web: www.dfw.state.or.us



Public meetings set in February for future black-tailed deer hunting seasons

SALEM – The Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife will host a series of public meetings starting next week in western Oregon to obtain public comments on draft strategies for black-tailed deer hunting seasons for 2005 and beyond.

Information obtained at the public meeting will be forwarded to the Oregon Fish and Wildlife Commission for consideration in March. The Commission plans to give initial guidance on black-tailed deer seasons for 2005 in March and make a final decision in June.

ODFW biologists have identified declines in black-tailed deer populations, hunter success, deer harvested and hunter participation. An analysis of 40 years of buck-to-doe ratios found a drop from about 40 bucks per 100 does to about 25 bucks per 100 does. The population declines may be associated with disease, changing timber management practices which reduce the quality of deer habitat, or other factors.

The following strategies are currently being considered:

*Buck deer season: Three options have been drafted, including:

• Maintain current general season structure. Add a mandatory reporting and mandatory check-in requirement, and change the bag limit to a “buck with a visible antler.”

• Change the season to a 31-33 day season, alter rules for the Cascades and Wilson-Trask hunting units, change the bag limit to a “buck with a visible antler,” require mandatory reporting, require mandatory check in for harvested deer in selected hunting units and create selected controlled hunts for bucks or either sex animals.

• Create an Oct. 1-31 season, alter rules for the Cascades and Wilson-Trask hunting units, change the bag limit to a “buck with a visible antler,” and create selected controlled hunts for bucks or either sex animals.

*Antlerless deer seasons: Set seasons concurrent with general buck season, phase out many 600 series “antlerless deer” hunts, and possibly end the awarding of preference points if changes are made that would significantly reduce 600 series tag numbers.

*General archery season : Use 2004 season structure for next five years, change bag limit to “buck with a visible antler.”

* Multiple deer hunting opportunities: Phase out many 600 series “antlerless deer” hunts, focus remaining 600 and 800 series hunts in areas with agricultural damage, create new 100 “buck” hunts where populations are robust, and possibly end the awarding of preference points if changes are made that would significantly reduce 600 series tag numbers.

* Late archery deer season : Incorporate season into a single controlled hunt with dates consistent with late elk archery season, establish bag limit to be one deer or one buck with visible antler depending on local population.

Public meetings are scheduled for the following dates and locations to obtain public input on the proposed strategies:

Brookings: 7 p.m. , Tuesday, Feb. 17, Brookings Elk Lodge, Weisner Room, 800 Elk Drive .

Canby: 7 p.m. , Tuesday, Feb. 3, at the Pioneer Oregon Hunters Association meeting, Jarboe's Grill, 101 N. Elm.

Clackamas: 6:30 p.m. , Thursday, Feb. 19, ODFW Regional Office, 17330 SE Evelyn, Building 16.

Coos Bay : 7 p.m. , Tuesday, Feb. 24, Tioga Oregon Hunters Association meeting, Georgia Pacific Security Office.

Coquille: Tuesday, Feb. 24. Time and location to be announced. Contact Stuart Love, 541-888-5515.

Grants Pass : 7 p.m. , Thursday, Feb. 19, Josephine County Oregon Hunters Association meeting, Wild River Pub.

McMinnville: 7 p.m. , Tuesday, Feb. 24, Yamhill Oregon Hunters Association meeting, Tequilla Grill, 325 NE Hwy. 99.

Medford : 7 p.m. , Thursday, Feb. 12, Rogue Valley Oregon Hunters Association meeting, JJ North's Grand Buffet.

North Bend : 7 p.m. , Wednesday, Feb. 11, North Bend Public Library, 1800 Sherman Ave.

Roseburg : 7 p.m. , Tuesday, Feb. 17, Umpqua Oregon Hunters Association meeting, ODFW Regional Office, Roseburg .

Springfield : 7 p.m. , Wednesday, Feb. 18, Emerald Valley Oregon Hunters Association meeting, Union Hall, 1116 South “A”

Tillamook: 7 p.m. , Monday, Feb. 16, Tillamook Oregon Hunters Association meeting, Tillamook PUD.

Warrenton: 7 p.m. , Tuesday, Feb. 10, Lower Columbia Oregon Hunter Association meeting, Kilroy's Restaurant.

More information about the proposed strategies will soon be available on the ODFW Web site under Exhibit “B” at http://www.dfw.state.or.us/Comm/04/feb/feb_sch.htm . "

[Wreckless]

Thanks, We've GOT to do something. I'm no rocket scientist, but how will changing the buck hunt to "buck w/visible antler" INCREASE the buck/doe ratio?? [img]graemlins/dork.gif[/img]

Ya think we should maybe STOP SHOOTING DOES???? [img]graemlins/eek13.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/dork.gif[/img]

OK I vented, I hope the ODFW will do the right thing and let these deer repopulate!! [img]graemlins/1zhelp.gif[/img] But I think they'd rather have the $$$ from doe tags than does.

I'll bet they'd sell Kangaroo tags if they thought they could make some $$ :grin:

[Gus Orviston]

I don't think the forestation programs in the coast range can support more? I dunno, but over the last 60 years the clear cuts and burn are being consumed by reprod and brush.

I would like to see a late coastal rifle or a combined; late bow for nonsuccesful rifle hunts. But that works against the numbers thing I know.

I agree, what does one visible antler do?

gus

[Wreckless]

You are right Gus, the "high country" isn't ready for too many more deer, but even the farm land seems to be suffering lately. I have been spoiled by having access to private land in the Gaston, Yamhill area and it seems that even there, the deer are getting scarce. There are still "pockets" of good hunting , but they are far and few between. I used to hunt a clover field behind a dairy, and the deer are just not there anymore . I've found TOO MANY gut piles next to the road as I walked in .

I'll keep an eye on these meetings, and I'd love to attend.

[Norm]

Thanks for the post lured.

Things I would like to see

1.Doe tags available as a priority for youth hunters.
2. Lower the number of overall doe tags issued.
3. Three point or better "Trophy" areas
4. Increase in fines and punishment for poachers

[stick flicker]

Do we really need this? I haven't noticed a decline in deer populations in the cascades and I have been hunting them for twenty years. We have gotten our bucks every year with a good distribution of age classes.
I also know someone who worked as a sampler doing spotlight counts for ODFW and he says the methods they use to estimate deer aren't that relible. Spacial and temporal distribution seemed to be overlooked in the sampling frame. Besides think about how broke ODFW is how much sampling have they really done on thier budget?
Late archery deer season : Incorporate season into a single controlled hunt with dates consistent with late elk archery season, establish bag limit to be one deer or one buck with visible antler depending on local population.
I think that as a whole the deer in Oregon may be facing declines due to the factors listed,but how much of this is hype.Do we really need to give the state more money through tags.

[Rauly]

Would anyone like to maybe get a IFISH get together at one or two of these meetings. This way we can voice OUR opinions and here what others have to say. This may be a great opportunity to help the deer herd.

Rauly

[ 01-30-2004, 05:00 PM: Message edited by: Rauly ]

[Grip It-N-Rip It]

It said there were three options for bucks but it seems like they all said the same thing "one buck w/visible antlers". In Lehmans terms that means we are running out of does and we think there are more spikes so we will let them slaughter them too. Yeah I know you could kill a spike on a doe tag I read the regs. The only question is why are they still hunting the does? G-wiz give em a brake already and let them repopulate some. I can not believe after all of these years of slaughtering the does that they are finally starting to think that the population is dwindling. The only problem is they think the deer are dwindling from a disease. Yeah they got a diseasse alright it is called lead poisoning brought on by greedy biologists. That shows you where the smarts are.
When I was a kid I used to go up into the hills darn near every night and see bucks NICE bucks Now your lucky to see a good buck in the season. We used to turn them down if they were forks or small threes and now if you do that odds are you won't see another buck all season. I still don't shoot the little guys but I don't fill my tag near as often either.
As far as there little spot light sessions go and how accurate they are around here if they see a pair of eyes glowing back at them they count it as a deer. They dont know if it is a coon, elk, opossum, or cougar they just mark it as a deer, and they do the studies on private ground knowone can hunt to get a better sample. Well no kidding there is more deer there knowone hunts them but a select few people that have keys to the private timber company gates.
Yes if I had the keys and permission I would hunt behind the gates, yes I would, but this just don't sound like very sound management to me. Sooner or later ODFW needs to start worrying about the animals and not about the $$$ because when the animals are gone so are the people to buy the tags and then there goes their precious dollars end of story.
Alright who wants the soap box now? Sorry I went past my time with that one!

[ 01-30-2004, 06:46 PM: Message edited by: Grip It-N-Rip It ]

[MountainLion84]

Spikes probably need to be on one side or the other. I think since they are going to phase out doe tags, they want to move spikes to the buck side. I am not sure why we even have to harvest spikes. Spikes antlers on the west side, are usually very small at least here in columbia county.

[Snapset]

I have noticed a pretty sharp population drop around my area, but I am not sure if stopping the harvest of does is going to help the bucks for a couple of reasons:

First, I think a lot of the population drop can be blamed on communicable diseases and parasites, the transmission of which between animals increases with more animals in a given area. So, if we kill fewer does, and they produce more fawns, the disease rate will rise even faster than the population and what animals survive the infestations will be mangy, like a lot of what we are seeing.

The second problem, is the habitat is disappearing as old clearings grow up and the deer are forced to compete for a shrinking forage base, especially in winter. This winter has been especially harsh and I expect to see even fewer deer next fall than I have in the last couple. I think the shrinking forage in the forest is forcing many of the deer into the valleys and growing urban fringes, where they reach a high enough population density that they are more susceptible to the first problem. My guess is we are not going to see the Blacktail herds we are used to seeing unless/until logging increases to the level it was in the sixties and seventies. Pretty unlikely in my opinion. If a given habitat can support 100 deer, I would prefer 30 bucks and 70 does, rather than 10 bucks and 90 does.

I don't usually even apply for a doe tag anymore because I don't need the meat as much now that my kids are flying the coop, so I don't have a stake in how they control doe populations, but I would hate to see the buck tag numbers dropped because I LOVE hunting blacktails.

[fishuntr2]

In my area its very noticeable that there are less deer. We aren't seeing any "hair-loss" syndrome locally....but it has been seen closer to Vernonia. Longview Fibre is cutting alot of timber around here. Then they spray Herbicides to help out when the replant occurs. Doesn't this spraying kill alot of feed for the deer and elk? It would be nice if some air spraying of feed seed happened. That would help to stabilize the soil and give animals food. The typically low growing grasses and such wouldn't compete with the new reprod. If they have to spray herbicides...I think they should have to "replant" big game fodder.

[StickFish]

Yes, something has to be done and the ODFW can only act on one part of the problem.

My first vote would be to increase the pressure on poachers. Life in the woods at night has gotten to easy for them. Back when our group was extremely suscessful on Blacktail (legally) we used to encounter more people leaving the woods when we went in - in the dark than we would see for a couple of hours. All with big lights and rifles hanging out windows. We'd see the gut piles. Current court cases have been reducing the enforcement options that game controll officers have.

Next I'd like to see a partnership effort on behalf of hunters and land owners to allow hunters to assist land owners in the management of game on their private land. Heck I'd volunteer to patrol private property to make sure there isn't any dumb things going on. I'd man a check-in and out station. This would give the land owners some peace of mind that maybe we are not out there dumping our garbage and shooting their logging equipment. It would take some work, some of us would loose boot time in the woods, but the land that isn't accessable now would slowly reopen in a modified way to public hunting.

One thing I'd like to see change is the new practise in the clear cuts. Used to be that the year after a cut they would go in and burn it and wait a couple more years to plant it. Seems they cut it, plant it, spray it with fertilizer and the clear cut gets choked out full of old slash left lay and the brush never reaches the quality that it used to that supported the browsers. ODFW can't do anything about that.

I don't know what option would be best for the overall population as I'm not a specialist in that matter. I'd like to hear one of the ODFW experts tell me what the pros and cons of each option are on the health of the deer.

[Don Becker]

Actually, I had read the announcement before I logged-in here today and I have already proposed, to my hunting partners, that we attend one of the meetings and see what ODFW and our fellow hunters have to say.

No doubt lowering the "take" criteria will entice more hunters, who don't necessarily hunt regularly, and I don't think anyone disagrees much w/ ODFW wanting/needing the money.

For what it's worth, here's some of what I expect we'll be told re the "biological side" of allowing taking spikes: more hunters will "settle" for a spike, potentially allowing more of the more mature bucks to escape, leading to a better propagation and a stronger herd.

[gottafish]

If you guys want more Deer to hunt Take up trapping coyote's they hit the fawns hard and if every one just took a few it would help big time.

[Wreckless]

You are right stickfish. Poaching is WAY bigger than most people can IMAGINE. I have friends that live near a small town in the foothills (Cherry Grove) and there's a LOT of year 'round "hunting".

I also think we need to place the "Poacher" label on people who fill others tags for them. I run into quite a few people that hunt more than one season. Wifes tag, kids tag, neighbors tag.....POACHERS!

[winterkill]

Fishunter... Look closer, hair loss is in our back yard I probably saw about 10 deer with hair loss in the last 6 months in our general area.

As for the declining numbers:
#1 Drastically cut the number of doe tags
#2 Study the affect of spraying clearcuts on deer
#3 Open up state forests by either clearcutting, or thinning.
#4 ALLOW USING DOGS TO HUNT COUGARS
~Ian

[gottafish]

Dogs and cats. God I miss the sound echoing through the canyon. Remember when we had deer?

[Wreckless]

Good points Winterkill

#1 We've GOT to stop killing a bunch of does every year.

I too have seen several deer with hair loss in several different locations . I'm afraid after the snows, those deer are gone :depressed: . I guess it's mother nature at work, but I sure miss seeing lots of blacktails.

[Bait O' Eggs]

I think lumping the casades and coast into the same category is wrong. I see several deer in the cascades where I play buy few on the coast. They are seperated by a big flat valley called the Willamette why try to make them the same?

In all areas,
1. stop the doe hunts!
2. Make all hunts either 3 or 4 point or better (would only affect the hunting for a couple years)
3. stop all doe hunts!!!
4. shorten the coast season, 6 weeks is a long time
5. stop all doe hunts !!!!!!
6. poaching fines that are so astronomical you wouldnt think of poaching. take their gun, car, house and all possessions, and cut their hands off at the wrist [img]graemlins/applause.gif[/img]
7. stop all doe hunts !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[GutshotApe]

Originally posted by Bait O' Eggs:
In all areas,
1. stop the doe hunts!

3. stop all doe hunts!!!

5. stop all doe hunts !!!!!!
7. stop all doe hunts !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helv">A wise old big game biologist once said "If your deer herd can't stand a doe harvest then you probably shouldn't be killing any bucks, either".

When you are dealing with declining habitat quantity & quality, as is the case in much of western Oregon, often a high percentage of the deer population will be composed of barren does...I've read studies showing as high as 30% of female deer in stressed populations never breed. They are just taking up space...and if you don't have any althorized doe hunts, these non-reproducing animals contribute nothing either to the herd or to hunters.

The question is "How many does should be killed?" and how do you know when you're "there". :whazzup:

[Bill Monroe]

John's right and if more of us are taking spikes (often incapable of breeding) in conjunction with seasons that close earlier, that leaves older bucks to breed those does...

[dla]

This isn't something you solve by hiring more biologists, and check stations are just about the stupidest "joy killer" I can imagine.

You have more poaching because of cutbacks in enforcement.

You have more cougars because of a ban on effectively killing off older cats.

You have disease and there's nothing we can do but let it run it's course.

I've posted this a number of times, but we have half as many hunters as we did in 1981. So clearly you don't fix this by fiddling with the seasons.

It sure doesn't seem like rocket science to me.

http://www.aracnet.com/~family2/OR_license.jpg

[WildHawg]

Great thread! I will attend the McMinville meeting. Anyone care to join me?
Reduced timber harvest, and the practice of spraying clearcuts with herbicide have had serious impacts in some areas.
The Black Rock area above Falls City is an excellent example of a deer desert, both from poaching, and a lack of quality browse. I had never seen evidence of spraying on the Mckenzie until this year. My son coincidentally found his trophy buck in the middle of one of these deserts. Something needs to be done about the use of herbicides on our forest. It may be private land, but it is the home to a public resource--our wildlife. As such, they should be required to mitigate impacts to wildlife that significantly alter their ability to feed.
Doe hunts should be prioritized for first time and youth hunters, with harvest drastically reduced.
It is my hope that they do not reduce the general season length. Call me selfish, but I love that first week of November in the Cascades...

[tailchaser]

I agree with you guys on the fact there are many other problems besides hunters that effect the deer. However, of all of the problems we're the only one that they seem to have any idea of how to control. The one thing that ticks me off though is changing the late bow season into a draw. I've saved points for some time now for a lucrative rifle tag but love to do the late hunt for bow. I hardly see anyone even on that hunt so why change it? I knew it was too good to be true for long. Any good thing ODFW creates is taken away anyhow. I have "0" faith in thier decision making and I intend on going to the meeting and voicing some opinion on the matter.

tc

[WildHawg]

TTT

[Grip It-N-Rip It]

[/QUOTE]A wise old big game biologist once said "If your deer herd can't stand a doe harvest then you probably shouldn't be killing any bucks, either".

When you are dealing with declining habitat quantity & quality, as is the case in much of western Oregon, often a high percentage of the deer population will be composed of barren does...I've read studies showing as high as 30% of female deer in stressed populations never breed. They are just taking up space...and if you don't have any althorized doe hunts, these non-reproducing animals contribute nothing either to the herd or to hunters.

The question is "How many does should be killed?" and how do you know when you're "there". :whazzup: [/QB][/QUOTE]


The problem is that your 30% aren't getting bread because there are no bucks left to breed them. As Bait o Eggs stated "quit doe hunting"!!He used to hunt around here and he probably understands the problem in this area quite well.
Why have they allowed a buck tag AND a doe tag which you could kill spikes (which is a buck not a doe) for someone who wanted to apply for a doe tag for so long? I can't get a cow and bull tag and there are obviously more elk then deer. People need to be logical.
If you would have talked to a biologist over the last few years, and I have, they would tell you they knew the deer were declining, but yet they wouldn't do anything about reducing the doe tags or even make it where you could only get a buck OR a doe tag but not both. You got to wonder about an agency that knows there is a problem but does nothing about it or even try to stop it.