30-06 question

[santiam slayer]

what kind of ballistic difference would there be in shooting a 150 grain bullet compared to a 180 grain bullet. i currently shoot 150 grain federal premium loads with ballistic tip bullets for deer. i shoot the 150 grain bullet in an attempt to get flatter trajectories, but i was wondering if it really makes that much difference. also, what are people's opinions on Nosler Ballistic Tip bullets and their performance on game? what other bullets and loads would people suggest i use with my '06 for deer? since i'm not a handloader, i'm just trying to find the best factory loads i can. any info would be appreciated. thanks in advance.

[MarlinMark]

Here is a link to a ballistic calculator. You need to have the weight of the bullet and it's ballistic coefficient. (B.C.) and some other info that you can just approximate. The calculator will allow you to make tables to compare the different ballistics of different projectiles. You can use any ammo companies website to get the velocity of there factory loads. (you will need the velocity for the calculator too.) Let me know if you need further help.

http://www.eskimo.com/~jbm/ballistic...raj_basic.html

Mark

[MountainLion84]

I shoot a .165 grain, for both deer and elk. I don't have any complaints with that load.

[Water Ready]

He's right on with 165 gr. Best reason is you don't have to fiddle with your scope changing loads. Get it on, and leave it alone. Also spend time on the bench to make bullet placement part of shooting. My great uncle killed 11 bull elk with eleven shots with a 257 Roberts. He shot on a bench a lot. Happy shooting!

[ICHTHYDEMON]

Whatever load you chose,the ballistic tip will be one of the best choices as far as accuracy goes. It may not be the best choice for your hunting conditions (close range=high velocity=ruined meat)

Its hard to say what load will be a good one in your rifle. Most guns shot 2-3 factory loads real well,and the rest may be so-so or worse. Your best bet is to buy as many different loads as you can afford,and head to the range. A way to save some money is to find someone that shoots a 30-06. Each of you should buy a couple different boxes of ammo. When you get to the range,both of you should try some of ea. box. That way you only have to buy 2-3 boxes,but you get to try twice as many loads.

I prefer 165gr for deer and 180gr for elk in the '06. There is only about 100fps difference between the 150 and the 165 but the 165 has better sectional density and a slightly better balistic coefficient. The 165gr will be .1" lower at 400yds and .3" lower at 400yds, with a 200yd zero.

[Washington Hunter]

There is very little difference in trajectories between the 150 and 180 grain. Sighted in at 250 yards, both will be approximately 3 inches high at 100 yards, 2 inches high at 200, at 300 the 150 grain will be 4 inches low and the 180 5 inches low, at 400 the 150 is 17 inches low and the 180 19 inches, 500 yards the 150 is 38 inches low and the 180 42 inches low. So you are not really gaining anything by shooting the lighter bullet. Only 2 inches difference at 400 yards, and at 500 only 4 inches. The only reason to use the 150 instead of a 180 is the recoil would be quite a bit less.

[mcknerkneykak]

SHOT PLACEMENT!--either.

[winterkill]

I am with mckner, it is all about shot placement. It doesn't matter if an elk is shot with a 150 grain bullet, if the bullet is through the lungs.

[KingFisher85]

I don't hunt with an 06, just shootum...165gr bullet I would have to say (been said before..i think) is the best all around bullet.
But if all your hunting is deer, 150s work nice.
Just my 2 cents

[santiam slayer]

thanks to all for the advice. i agree that shot placement is more important than anything, but i like to know that i am properly equipped on top of that. are there any other opinions on the ballistic tip as a bullet? i am mostly concerned about its performance on game. i have heard a few negative reports on similar bullets (swift? scirocco) and that they don't expand very well. i have only killed one deer with this load and it performed nicely. just curious about others' experiences with this bullet on game. thanks again.

[ORoutdoorsman]

I personally don't have any experience with those loads. But in my opinion, I think any good quality ammunition is more than enough for a deer. I like federal premiums if you are not loading your own ammo. Ballistic tips are ok I suppose, but I think they are unnecessary. I think a regular jacketed spitzer from a premium ammunition(even though I admit to killing animals with factory cheap remington ammo) will do a good job. And you shouldn't need the ultra safari's and all that expensive crap for $50 a box to get the job done. A friend of mines father use to hunt deer with a .218 bee and was successful, so you don't need anything special to kill a deer. Remember, once you get past the 3/4 to an inch thick wall of ribs and meat, its all over but the cryin'. The 150 grain bullet will expand sooner then the 165 and especially the 180gr, and that is what you want on a deer. You dont need super penetration, because there isnt that much to penetrate. And a boat tail bullet I believe would have more of an impact on accuracy then those plastic ballistic tips. As long as you dont booger the lead on the tip up too bad, you will be fine, and you dont break the bullet up too soon at close range like you do with ballistic tips. What I would suggest you use is, federal premium 150gr BTSP(Sierra boat tail soft point). They are going to be roughly $20 a box wherever you buy them, and they are great quality. Plus, the sierra boat tail is excellent for long range accuracy. There are other companies out there with similar round which all will perform just as well, but I know the federal premiums are good bullets. Hope this helps.

Ballistic tips act like a hollow point and at high velocities tend to come apart rapidly. At ’06 velocity they might be ok.

Boattail bullets tend to shed their cores when they hit an animal.

When comparing bullets of the same design and composition a 150 gr bullet will not start to expand any sooner than a 165gr or 180gr. The heavier bullets just go deeper before loosing their energy and stopping.

In ideal conditions a deer can be killed with a .22 but in the real world of todays hunting, where you have to take whatever shot you get, it is safer to error on the heavy side. My favorite rifle, 338-06 Ackley Imp, pushes a 225gr bullet close to 2700fps. This rifle is over kill for deer but just right for elk and with 250gr bullets it killed bear quite well.

[ 01-04-2004, 09:28 PM: Message edited by: Keta ]

[ORoutdoorsman]

Keta-bullets will begin to expand at the same time. However, a bullet moving faster will cause it to expand quicker, as in it will expand completely before one moving slower will. Also, a lighter bullet will reach complete expansion before a heavier one will. Some may argue whether 15 or 30 grains and roughly 150 FPS will make a difference in expansion. From my experience(which im not saying is any better than yours, I have less experiance than you do, I have read your posts and reguard your opinion highly)a 150gr bullet will reach full expansion faster than the slower moving 165 and 180gr bullet. We may only be talking fractions of a fraction of a seconds difference, but a fraction of a second is all it takes when a bullet is moving almost 3000 feet per second. And in my opinion, the little bit quicker the 150 grain bullet will reach full expansion is more important then the unneeded extra penetration you get from a 165 or 180 grain bullet. And as far as boat tails coming apart, I have heard that. But any bulet can seperate from its jacket, but a good quality bullet should perform just fine.

Ah! Full expansion, you are right. I didn't factor the 100fps velocity difference either, it would make some difference.

And you are right about premium bullets coming apart. I've seen one Partition loose its base core on a mt. goat shoulder and a Speer Grand Slam (270) loose its core after traveling 18" down the spine of a coyote. I haven't seen a core separation on a Swift A frame yet and it's impossible with a barns X. I had severe copper fouling with the early X bullets though and haven't played with them for years.


I still tend to go with the heavier bullet, I like BIG exit wounds and nice blood trails. I guess it comes from hunting in SE Alaska rain forest. 165gr bullets have worked real good for me in both 308 and '06.

Don't discount your experience, even us old guys can be proven wrong or be taught something new. Keeping an open mind is the best way to learn.

[ORoutdoorsman]

I always do my best to keep an open mind. While I know a bit more about ballistics then most people me age, I still spend more time listening to old timers then I do talking And when I saw your response, I figured I should have re-worded expansion to full expansion. And I can imagine hunting Alask would be a bit more hairy than Oregon I look forward to seein more of your posts.

Oroutdoorsman

[ORoutdoorsman]

If all you are ever going to hunt is deer, with maybe the occasional bear or cougar, I would stick with the 150. The 150 in most cases feels like its half the recoil of a 180 grain bullet. I don't mention this because of it being too much recoil, because it isnt. I mention this because I shoot better off hand with less recoil, and with 150gr there is almost no recoil. I think 180gr is too much for deer. You get more penetration with a 180 grain bullet then you want. Some people think the more bullet, the better kill. But a 150gr bullet will expand as soon as it is through the skin, should still exit, and will do just the right amount of damage, without ruining much meat. If you hunt only mulies and whitetail, I could see going with a 165 grain bullet, but if it is mostly black tail, I think a 150 is perfect. Expansion, velocity, and ft/lbs is the best for a deer with 150 gr.