7mm-08?

[Catching Nemo]

I currently own a .308 (heavy barrel target config - not a good setup for hunting) and a 7mm Remington Magnum. However, I am interested in picking up a deer/lope only rifle without the extra performance/recoil of the 7mm RM. So far, I have been leaning towards a 7mm-08. The other cartridge is a .243 Winchester. If it matters, I plan on reloading with either choice.

Anyone shooting and/or reloading these 2 cartridges? Appreciate any feedback on the above.

For deer and close/mid range antelope I'd go with the 7mm-08. Keep the 7mm rem for elk and longer range deer and antelope.

[traks44]

I have shot alot of deer with my .243, but my special lady friend shoots a 7mm-08. I wouldnt think you could go wrong with either. The only thing you might want to consider would be soemthing a little flatter shooting than these two. The 7mm-08 was developed to have les recoil and it shows in the cartridges ballistics. A 25 caliber rifle may not be a bad choice either?

I have no experience with the Winchester .243 short mag but I hear some good things. You might want to check out a little about this new one. All the benifits of a .243 in a little flatter shooting round.

[Just Fish]

The 25-06 is a great deer and antelope rifle has the speed of the 7mm rm and just a little more recoil than a 243 and in a pinch with a 120 gr nosler partion it will work on elk.But a 7mm/08 with a 140 gr nosler partion is a option you might want to explore.

Yup! I don't like the 26-06 but there is no good reason for my not likeing them. It's a good deer/antelope round.

[Quack Attack]

I've shot and reloaded both. The 243 would be my choice, as it is flatter and just very accurate. The only problem is that you are maxed out with a 100 grn bullet. Now that isn't too bad, as I have killed quite a few mule deer with a 100 grn .243, but that bullet isn't going very fast in that gun. Nice that you can go down to 70 grn for varmint if you choose, or even down to 55 but they don't seem to be as accurate. The 7mm-08 is a very light recoil gun with a little more bullet weight, but not any more velocity. ps, the 243 wssm kicks like a full magnum round, kinda defeats the purpose of the 243 altogether. 243 definitely for antelope.. Might try a 257 Roberts as well, you can go up to 120 for longer range mulies, and stay at about 100 for everything else, and again very light recoil. Only problem is that ruger is the only one factory chambering it that I know of right now.

[duckdog310]

7mm-08 will kill anything you point it at with the proper bullets and range consideration. There are several premium bullets out there from which you can select. If it were me, I'd either rebarrel to a lighter contour .308 barrel or rebarrel and chamber in 7mm-08.

You might look at .260 also, just for kicks.

[Duckwheat]

I don't think you could go wrong with either. I have an old 03 Springfield I sporterized and rebarrled with Douglas barrel in 243.

I kill everything I shoot at. I always see game when I take it. Killed 9 Elk with it 28 Deer and Antelope. Untold number of coyotes etc.......

Shoot a 100 grain slug. Farthest elk I killed with it, 400 yards. Two rounds through the old rib cage within 2 inches of each other. Probably did not need to shoot it twice.

You can't kill it if you can't hit it.

Seriously Duckwheat

[High Country]

I would lean towards the the .243 or even better the 6mm remington.With the .243 I have shot 5 blacktails and 1 muley at ranges from 50 to 300yds one correctly placed shot was all it took,and if your into hand loading 55grs will launch chucks like you wouldn't believe. I sold that gun a while back and picked up a Ruger flat bolt chambered in 6mm and have worked up aload of 48.5 gr RL-22 with 100gr nosler solid base,I chrono'd it at 3200fps out of its 24in barrel.It will be with me on my next antelope trip. Good luck.- Hope this helped

[DRUNK COWBOY]

Check out the .243 WSSM. It is a 300 win mag cartridge cut and necked down to a .243. I picked one up for fun. It shoots over 4000 fps and you can mix and match a lot of different bullets. It is worth a look :grin:

[Special K]

I have been shooting a 7mm-08 for 10+ years now. It is a great little round. Even though it is in a light-weight Rem 600 the recoil is very managable.

My old man used to reload for me, before he retired and "ran out of time." If you are interested, I can get more info about the home loads I used to use...I believe they were 140gr Barnes...but could be wrong. Shoot me a PM if interested and I can get a bit more info for you.

[grsteelies]

You need to google search 260 remington. this is the round your looking for. check it out.

[baltz526]

why not a hunting weight 308. using varget powder you can push a 150gr nosler accubond at nearly 3000fps with very light recoil in a 24" barrel.

[Catching Nemo]

why not a hunting weight 308. using varget powder you can push a 150gr nosler accubond at nearly 3000fps with very light recoil in a 24" barrel.

I had thought about that as I am already shooting and reloading a .308. However, I've got the bug to try something new.

Thanks for the replies.

[jimh]

If you are shooting so much when you hunt that recoil is a problem, then changing calibers is the least of your worries. :smile: Seriously though, 7mm-08 may be a passable gun, but I don't think it will increase your success. If you need a new toy...then go for it!

[ICHTHYDEMON]

7mm-08

[Santiam338]

While 243's kill just fine...The small bullets do not have the anchoring ability of larger bullets...Sometimes they need to be stopped right where they are..

This canyon is a long way to the bottom...He was killed with a 7mm-08 and 140 gr interbonds...Anchored him....Would a 243 have kept him out of the canyon??..

Maybe...

Maybe not..

[Chesapeake]

A 270 would be my choice for an all-around medium size game rifle.

[Snakebite]

What ever happened to the .257 Roberts? I don't ever hear of anyone talking about that here. I always thought it was a great option. Never had one but I have looked into the possibility. I almost bought a Remington Model seven in that calibur many years ago, but I had to pay the rent on the house instead.

Does anyone still build rifles for this great 25ca?

[oregonmuley]

I have a Remington Model 700 CDL in 7mm-08 I bought about a year ago. Like some others really liked this caliber even though many other good ones mentioned. Its a great gun/caliber, I shoot Remington ammo - don't reload, anyway I shoot the new 140 Accutips and it shoots under an inch in a factory rifle, only work done so far is trigger job. Hope to use it this your on my Oregon antelope hunt - hah!
Frank

[goforchrome]

I have a 7mm-08 and think it's a great cartridge.
As mentioned, you can load 140-150gr premium bullets for elk, lighter bullets for deer and 'lope.
I like things that are efficient, and that describes the .308-based cartridges including .243.
7-08 gets you more flexibility, .243 gets you more speed and flatter traj for longer shots.
They are both good in their own right...and accurate, too.
Alot of shooters think more is better....I like 'just right'.
Ps..both are easy to load for and bullet selection is wide open.

[grsteelies]

260 is combo of both. Excellent sectional density. Versatile 100 to 140 gr bullets. Low recoil. And who doesn't want a 264? I love my 7-08, but 260 will replace it as my goto gun.

[slowbuilder2005]

7mm-08 will kill anything you point it at with the proper bullets and range consideration. There are several premium bullets out there from which you can select. If it were me, I'd either rebarrel to a lighter contour .308 barrel or rebarrel and chamber in 7mm-08.

You might look at .260 also, just for kicks.

7mm-08 plus the new Barnes MRX or Triple Shock X-Bullet. This is exactly what Barnes copper is good for. Lighter rounds that still penetrate and drop your animal. The MRX has a higher sectional density so you can load up a bit more for more punch while not sacrificing the bullet weight.

Brian D

[Catching Nemo]

260 is combo of both. Excellent sectional density. Versatile 100 to 140 gr bullets. Low recoil. And who doesn't want a 264? I love my 7-08, but 260 will replace it as my goto gun.

Per your suggestion, I've been doing a little bit of research on the 260 Remington. Wow, seems to be a great cartridge with a lot of praise from various reviews and other hunters. Amazed at the sectional density comparisions with the 270, 308 and 7mm calibers. Unfortunately, not a lot of factory rifles are chambered for it and none for southpaws :grin:. Also found info on the 6.5 Swede... Regardless, I would need to rebarrel. How's ammo availability?

Thanks for the suggestion - it just made the list.

[grsteelies]

I have shot fact. rem extended range with 125 noslers. They have fed premiums with 120's, and regular core locks of 140's. The seven animals my 260 has killed have all been with 125 gr partitions. From 75 t0 280 yrds, all 1 shot kills. All good bullet placements. Pass thrughts on all shots, exit wounds all about a quarter in size. Sorry about the left hand thing. How about rebarrel Rem 700 mtn rifle and add 2.5 x 8 vari x III. 7-08 is pretty darn close if your not going to reload. You might even find a lefty 7-08. Good luck. May Santa bring you a rifle.

The last time I looked 6.5x55 brass was available. The 260Rem and the 6.5x55 should be real close balisticly. Long before the 260Rem came out I was considering building a 6.5-08 but didn't. I would consider the 260Rem another good choice.

[goforchrome]

260...great cartridge for the handloader....do not look at the bumfumble 7-11 for ammo you forgot at home.
I fear for the future of this cartridge....unless it gains popularity.
Look at factory offerings....not expanding.
I'm not arguing the capability of the cartridge, just the practicality.
7mm-08 and .243 can be formed from .308 at home and there's no shortage of that laying around.
I really considered .260 before I bought my 7mm-08.
FWIW, I learned to handload on my 7-08 and it made me look smart.
Great accuracy and velocities.
An experienced handloader could get close to .280 performance or use Hornady Light Magnum ammo and really sipp-off the 'gotta have a magnum!' crowd.
My next centerfire will also be .308-based...great platform.

[Catching Nemo]

Oops, nevermind. Answered my own question.

[OuterLimits]

For longer range, a good choice is the .25-06 or the .270 calibers. Good range and less recoil than the 7mm Mag. The .270 is my all time favorite and is my go to rifle for deer, antelop, black bear, and sheep.

WRONG!!!

One should never hunt bear with a 270Win.
For 15 years I killed 2 black bear a year on a hunting license and many more for the ADF&W after someone had shot one with a small rifle, one was hit by a car or one was causing problems. The 270Win does not pack enough energy to consistently kill bear. I've seen problems with bear shot with '06, 7mm Rem and 300Win too. I never liked tracking wounded bear and if someone shoots and wounds one it is their duty to track and finish it off!!!

I used a 338-06, 375H&H and 416Rem for killing wounded and animal control bear but that is not the same as hunting them. I feel that a 30-06 W/180gr bullets is minim for black bear and .338Win w/250rg bullets for brownies.

[Washington Hunter]

Keta, you've got to be kidding! Bears aren't that hard to kill and a 270 will do the job with no problem. Ever hear of Ralph Flowers? He was a professional bear hunter for many years, here in southwest Washington. He worked for the Washington Forest Protection Association. The 270 is all he ever hunted with, well except for the bears he snared and killed at close range with a 38 revolver. I've killed two bears with a 270, and one with a 264 Mag. which is about the same as a 270. I have a friend who has killed around 30 bears and his only rifle is a 270.

Only a fool would shoot dangerous game with too small of gun. I have seen the results of "Ultra Light" hunting and it isn't nice. To CONSISTANTLY KILL bear you need to hit it with a heavy bullet going fairly fast.
Try spending 4 hours on your hands and knees in cover so thick you can't see 10' ahead of you looking for drops of blood from a wounded bear shot with too light of rifle.

One bear I killed was in heavy cover just off of it's blood trail, waiting to see what was following it. We were fortunate that there was 3 of us, one tracking, one following the tracker ready to shoot and one making circles around them. This bear was only 15' from the tracker when I spotted it and killed it with my 375. Usualy there was only 2 of us on a woonded bear call and I never liked doing it.

It is irresponsible to encourage people to do stupid human tricks! The 270Win is very good for deer size thin skinned game and fair for elk but it is in no way a CONSISTENT bear killer.

[nobrownline]

260 REM all the way

[Washington Hunter]

The 270Win is very good for deer size thin skinned game and fair for elk but it is in no way a CONSISTENT bear killer.

Wait a second now...we're not talking about grizzly bears, or brown bears, are we?

Because black bears just are not that hard to kill. Shoot a bear in the lungs with a 270 and it's a dead bear. A bigger gun isn't going to kill it any deader. If you're worried about not getting enough penetration, use a Barnes X bullet, Swift A Frame, or Trophy Bonded Bear Claw.

I just don't get it. Bears are not armor plated. Would you consider a 30-30 for bears?

Both black and brown bear, the worse problems for us were black bear shot by Cheechakos with their deer rifles.

Let me start with this, the .270 will kill a bear but it is not really a good round for bear. Good bullet placement is critical with a round like the .270 (well, it's critical with a .416 too but if you hit a shoulder blade with a 400gr bullet it's not going to stop or come apart) and quality bullets help. All bears have very dense bone and if their hide is wet it can also reduce penitration.

30-30 for bear.....this is a tough call. With 170gr bullets and close shots, yes it would do the job. On a treed bear, most certainly, heck even a sub caliber pistol like the .357 would work on a bear in a tree.

To consistantly and humainly (I hate this word) kill bear I would strongly recomend nothing smaller than an 30-06 W/180gr PREMIUM bullets for Lower 48 bear and the .338Win W/250gr PREMIUM bullets for Alaska bear.

[Santiam338]

First time I ever heard of a 270 as a "ultra light".....

I kinda thought it was a medium caliber...LOL

I must be a fools fool cause I have killed a pile of bears with a 270...Its my go to rifle when I think I may be shooting across canyon...I also use a 338-06 and a 35 Whelen and have noticed no appreciable difference in how dead the bears are...

270, 58 gr H4831, 140 Hornady BT, 422 yards...One shot down in his tracks...




Same load...330 yards..Down in his tracks...This one is a brute...A 270 is more than enough gun for black bear which are thin skined and fairly light boned....They are not as tough as deer in my opinion..

Ultra light for bear. You will eventualy loose a bear or have to track a wounded one in the under brush. It also looks like you are shooting in open country.

You will also note that I say a .270 will kill bear but not CONSISTANTLY. If you wound a bear it's your duty to go in and finish it off.

There is nothing wrong with the .270, I've been thinking about using mine again, but it just doesn't push enough bullet for larger animals.

The second bear is a nice one!

[Santiam338]

Back to the original question...I was trying to steer him in the direction of the 7mm-08,a very fine killer...I am like you, except I am a couple calibers smaller...I don't care for the 243,6mm class bullets for big game.....

[Just Fish]

Keta are you reading a Elmer Kieth huntin rifles :grin:.I have crushed bears with a 30-06 with 180 gr partions out to 300 yards I shot one 450 pounder with 200gr speer bullet at 314 yards buy range finder andhe rolled down a hill like a drunk fat man stone dead

[High Country]

The .270 win is a small bore

[OuterLimits]

Black bear are not considered dangerous game either. So much for the fame the .270 gained from Jack O’Conner days! I have killed 3 black bears and 1 grizzly with the .270 and 2 black bears with the .338 Win Mag and both killed the bears. It is all about how competent the shooter is with the firearm of choice, the skill of the shooter, and the down range energy of the bullet. Lots of variables to think about when the moment of truth presents itself and one pulls the trigger. Most of the gun writers will agree that the black bear falls into the deer class category when it comes to choosing a caliber. There will always be controversy surrounding “knock down” power. Fact of the matter, there is no correct answer on what the correct caliber or weight of bullet should be, only the experience of others and ballistics can we learn what the best choices are “recommended”. There is always the “magnum” hungry group that insists that if you aren’t shooting a magnum, you are wasting your effort. Fact is, there are a lot of good calibers that will do the job! So getting back to original question about a good deer/antelope gun, a gun that is capable of having sufficient "knock down" power at least out to 300+ yards for antelope.

Black bear are not considered dangerous game either

More people are killed by black bear than are killed by brown bear.

The 270Win does not push enough bullet weight to CONSISTANTLY kill a black bear.

There is no such thing as "knock down power".

[C-lice]

Back to the 7mm-08.

I was in Nemo's position 4 or 5 years ago. I had identified the make/model of rifle I wanted to purchase, and had narrowed my choices down to .260, 7mm-08, and (a distant 3rd) the .308.

I wanted one of this "family" of cartridges because I 1.) wanted a short action, and 2.) wanted the inherent accuracy this "family" is known for.

In the end, it came down to the .260 and the 7mm-08, and I went with the 7mm-08. NOT because there is a thing wrong with the .260, but because the 7mm-08 had been around longer and because it could push slightly heavier bullets.

I have killed one deer and three antelope with my 7mm-08 at distances from 70 to 250 yards. One shot, one kill.

The ballistic coefficient of the loads I shoot from the 7mm-08 (162 grain Hornady boattail @ 2600 fps) is such that I lose no long-range capability from what I'd get with the 139 grain. At 500 yards (which is farther than I've ever shot an animal) the 162 drops 54 inches and the 139 (@ 2800 fps) drops 51. I can't tell 54 inches from 51 at 500 yards--to me, they're both 4 1/2 feet. At 400 yards the difference in point of impact is much less.

By comparison, my dad's .270 with 130 grain bullets drops 49 inches at 500 yards. In my mind, one can't call a drop of 49 inches reasonable but a drop of 54 inches unreasonable. So I consider the 7mm-08 to be just as viable a 500 yard caliber as the .270.

But wait. There's more. Remember--at the 500 yard distance, I'm landing a .284 caliber bullet that weighs 162 grains as opposed to a .277 caliber bullet that weighs 130 grains. There is just over 200 foot-pounds of difference (if memory serves--I don't have my manual in front of me) favoring the 7mm-08. In fact, my 7mm-08 with the 162 grain Hornadys has more power at 500 yards (1300 foot-pounds or so) than my 180 grain 30-'06 load (which is admittedly not a hot load) does.

Sorry this rambled on. But I think that you would serve yourself very well to get a 7mm-08. I think you would also de very well to get a .260.

[Washington Hunter]

270 and 7/08 are so close that both the hunter and the animal will never be able to tell the difference.

[Just Fish]

For get the 7mm/08 go buy a 30-06 and have a rifle that with a 150 bullet will kill antelope at 400 yards.And as this thread got going the talk of bears came to be put a 180-200 grain partion in it and crush a black bear and elk.And if you find a elephant stomping your garden corn put a 220 grain nosler partion in it and brain the beast. :shocked:

[OuterLimits]

Washington hunter, you are correct about the .270 and 7mm-08 having the same ballistics. Thanks for pointing that out to the group.

Remember, no cartridge no matter what caliber will consistently kill game. It is all about CONSISTANT shot placement. Proper and CONSISTANT shot placement will always kill the animal, not caliber. This is the key to success for the archers in the group.

As for "Cheechakos", I believe that is the Alaskan slang for "Newbie" hunter in Alaska!

"knock down power" is the hunting slang for bullet energy or foot pounds of energy calculated by the following formula.

Example: The muzzle energy of a 300 Remington Ultra Mag 180gr Core-Lokt Ultra bullet propelled at 3250 feet per second is determined using the follow formula:
M x V2 ÷ 450400 = foot pounds energy.

Step 1: Multiply M (M = bullet weight in grains) times V2 (V2 = the square of bullet velocity in feet per second): 180 x 3250 x 3250 = 1,901,250,000

Step 2: Divide the product of step 1 by 450400: 1,901,250,000 ÷ 450400 = 4221 foot pounds of energy.

The following example illustrates velocities and energy for the .270, 7mm-08, and .338 Win Mag using the Remington Arms Ballistics calculator.

.270 140 gr
Muzzle velocity 2925 fps energy 2659 ft-lbs
velocity at 300 yds 2193 fps energy 1495 ft-lbs

7mm-08 140 gr
Muzzle velocity 2860 fps energy 2542 ft-lbs
velocity at 300 yds 2189 fps energy 1475 ft-lbs

.338 win mag 250 gr
Muzzle velocity 2660 fps energy 3927 ft-lbs
velocity at 300 yds 2075 fps energy 2389 ft-lbs

Observation: The .270 and 7mm-08 velocities and energy have nearly the same ballistics out to 300 yds. The game will never know the difference.

Here is an interesting fact! Comparing the .270 and 7mm-08, the muzzle energy (2193 and 2189 ft-lbs) is approximately the same as the energy of the .338 at 300 yds (2389 ft-lbs).

[Catching Nemo]

270 and 7/08 are so close that both the hunter and the animal will never be able to tell the difference.

Just a reminder. I do have a 7MM RM and plan to keep it for long range and elk. I was looking for a deer/lope cartridge with milder recoil. I would agree that the 270 and 7MM-08 are ballistically similar but their recoil is not. That is why I ruled out the 270, 30.06 (plus they are similar to the 7MM RM), etc.... I am not recoil adverse but I would like to try something new. If that "new" cartridge will gitRdone without the extra blast or recoil - then that is a plus in my book.

Way I figure it, from the above feedback, the 7MM-08 will be work for deer, lopes and elk (probably still use the 7MM RM for elk) under 300 yards. The 7MM RM will take care of all those at 300 yards plus or minus.

After checking into the cost of building a 260 Remington (I'm a southpaw), I believe I will go with a factory chambered 7MM-08.

As for bear.... sounds like an excuse to eventually buy a .338 or the new and magical 325 WSM :grin:.

and Merry Christmas to all,

John

CN,
Good choice, you will be happy with the way the 7mm-08 shoots.

Not to confuse things but have you looked at one of these?

Remington Left Hand 280.

Or one of these?

Winchester Left Hand 280



WH,
Both the 270Win and 7mm-08Rem will kill deer quite well.
The 7mm-08 will fit in a short action and save a bit of rifle weight. It can also be loaded with 175gr bullets (too heavy for the case capacity) where the 270 is limited to 150gr.

I used 130gr bullets in my 270 and 160gr in the 7mm-08 but if I had the guns CN has I'd go with 140gr in the 7mm-08 and 160gr or 175gr for the 7mm mag.

[OuterLimits]

There are also bullets heavier than 150gr bullets for the.270 and at one time one manufacturer was producing 160 gr for that cartridge. Not sure what the market is doing now.

Maybe a thread should be started on calibers for black bear, grizzly, brown bear and polar polar bear. That would be an interesting thread for sure. If you spend enuf time in Alaska you will find that the .338 win mag or similar cartridges are the Alaskan go to rifles. Most carry 44 mags as back. I know, been there, done that!!

160gr 270 bullets are out of production. 150 is the heaviest unless you want to go with a custom built bullet $$$$.

BTW, File the front sight off the pistol if you are going to play with brown bear.

[Catching Nemo]

CN,
Good choice, you will be happy with the way the 7mm-08 shoots.

Not to confuse things but have you looked at one of these?

Remington Left Hand 280.



WH,
Both the 270Win and 7mm-08Rem will kill deer quite well.
The 7mm-08 will fit in a short action and save a bit of rifle weight. It can also be loaded with 175gr bullets (too heavy for the case capacity) where the 270 is limited to 150gr.

I used 130gr bullets in my 270 and 160gr in the 7mm-08 but if I had the guns CN has I'd go with 140gr in the 7mm-08 and 160gr or 175gr for the 7mm mag.

Keta,

Thanks for the link. That looks good except for the price . I was looking in the $600 or less range but will check the auction sites. My 7MM RM is a Remington 700 (early 70's) and my .308 is a Savage 10FLP. Both have been great rifles. I could get into a Savage 16FLSS for about $415 or 11FL for $380 (both weigh in around 6.5 pounds - similar to the REM Mountain Rifle). I also plan to mount a Zeiss Conquest 3x9 (already have it - so we don't need to start any Leupold discussions :grin.

BTW - The Avet is awesome!

[Washington Hunter]

I would agree that the 270 and 7MM-08 are ballistically similar but their recoil is not. That is why I ruled out the 270, 30.06 (plus they are similar to the 7MM RM), etc.... I am not recoil adverse but I would like to try something new. If that "new" cartridge will gitRdone without the extra blast or recoil - then that is a plus in my book.

Just my opinion here, but I also don't think you will notice any difference in recoil between the 270 and the 7/08. I had to make the same decision about 8 years ago. I had decided on a Browning A Bolt but wasn't sure if I wanted a 7/08, or 270. Finally made the decision to go with the 270 only because of two things: the A Bolt in a long action was already as light as I wanted, and I like to have the option of buying ammo for $12/box, even though I do reload. But either one is a good choice. Good luck!

[Yeti]

I love how a simple question about a cartridge turns into a "my magnum super zapper is the only...." I know this is a public forum but jeeze!

The 7mm-08 is a great round! I have sold two of my elk rifles, 30-06 & 300 wm, yet held onto my 7-08. Loaded with the 140 TSX it is deadly on elk. My nieghbor dropped a cow in her tracks at 321 yds. Perfect broadside shot and a clean pass through. Put that in your not enough "knock down power" pipe.

Really, the 7-08 is a perfect rifle for thin skin game. Loaded with the 120 TSX @ 3,100 fps zeroed @ 200 yd it is only down like 14" at 350. Pleanty flat and still carrying more than enough power. If you set your gun up for MPBR the ballistics look even better. The real beauty about this load is a small child can shoot it without flinching. I can shoot it better than any other load I have developed.

Use the right bullet and load for the intended game and know your ballistics by shooting them. If you do this the great 7mm-08 will suprise you.


Yeti

Yeti,
Again I will say, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS 'KNOCK DOWN POWER".

What it takes to cleanly kill is
bullet weight
velocity (at impact)
bullet placement (duh!)
penetration
energy transfer

If all of these are in the range it takes to kill the animal it will die, not get "knocked down".

As far as Magnums, I don't think they were even considered here and most have said that a 7mm-08 would be a good choice, for the animals listed.

[OuterLimits]

Keta

.270 Nosler Partition 160 Gr. Semi Spitzer still listed in their latest catalog.

Barnes used to make them years ago, but are now out of production.

Good, the 270 has the case capacity to push a 160gr. bullet to adequate velocity.

[OuterLimits]

One other item to add to Keta's and the most important is shot placement. It's got to be in the right vital area. A animal shot in the leg with a small caliber will be no different than shot with a super magnum. It is just not going to kill it humanly.

What it takes to cleanly kill is
bullet weight
velocity (at impact)
bullet placement
penetration
energy transfer

One can do a "Texas Heart Shot" with a medium caliber heavy premium bullet going fast but it's not a good thing.

Our goal as hunters should be to put an animal down as rapidly as possable.

[SeanD]

I agree there is no such thing as knockdown power. But in order of importance, the list should read:

Bullet placement
Bullet performance

What else matters? Energy transfer doesnt kill animals, its the damage done by the bullet. Sometimes slower works as good or better, usually penetration is better at lower velocity. With a nosler partition or barnes x type bullet the 7-08 is a perfect deer rifle and a good elk and black bear rifle too. I would not feel undergunned on an elk or black bear with 120 gr barnes x's loaded.