Incompetent big game hunters?

Freighter Bait · 12-27-2003, 08:44 PM

Getting ready to put in for a Wyoming elk hunting group application. As with some other states, the services of a guide is required if you plan on hunting in wilderness areas. :depressed: The confusion I and others seem to have with this is; you can hike, fish, and hunt small game in the wilderness, all without the services of a guide.

What is it I'm missing here? :whazzup:

MountainLion84 · 12-28-2003, 07:31 AM

Probably a very powerful outfitter voice in the legislator

Silver Eagle · 12-28-2003, 07:53 AM

I know one thing you will be missing, its some of those Green backs in your Wallet. Pay to Play, Corlyn hit it on the nail head, its away to help there econmy but on the flip side it might be in your interest to look into a good guide, I think there kill ratio is way about us just wondering around. Post what you do.......Ray

GutshotApe · 12-28-2003, 08:09 AM

There are 15 or 16 fenced elk ranches in Oregon...and many more in other states. The kill ratio at those places is probably close to 100%...but, then, the prices charged by elk ranchers are probably higher than what guides charge for wilderness area hunts on public land.

Bait Bucket · 12-28-2003, 08:46 AM

People really don't shoot fenced elk, do they?

[ 12-28-2003, 09:46 AM: Message edited by: Bait Bucket ]

kodiakfisher · 12-28-2003, 09:38 AM

Is the only way to purchase a non-resident tag through a guide?

If you can purchase an out of state tag over the counter or over the net. How would they know that you don't have a guide.

Some people would like to hunt on there own and live by there decisions, and not be told where when and how to hunt.

Now if I were archery hunting for elk in a new state I would like to have a guide for local knowledge of wind direction, thermals and calling experience. I have been with a retired guide and watched him get a bull over the course of an hour get him worked up enough to come take a look. We didn't get a shot but that is another story. The short of it, wind blowing the same direction ALL DAY when Mr. Bully comes to take a look a small swirl only one before or after and the bull was gone.

Freighter Bait · 12-28-2003, 05:08 PM

This "people" doesn't hunt fenced in game. To each his own on that.
Only in wilderness areas is it required to be accompanied by a licensed or resident guide. Just happen to know a special someone who can serve as a guide. :grin: And it will be against the rules to pay, in this case.

Try and get a tag over the internet for a huntable and productive area in Wyoming.

Not gonna happen. Wyoming is pretty much a draw only state. For an additional $400.00 over the standard $492.00, they will increase your odds just a wee bit. Guess I'll be a gambling man. :grin:
I wouldn't gamble on wandering around in the wilderness, not expecting to be asked where my guide is. If the warden didn't catch you, an unhappy local guide more than likely would. At that point, the warden won't be far behind. :depressed:

GutshotApe · 12-28-2003, 05:59 PM

In Oregon, as per law enacted by the 1997 Legislature, one-half of all non-resident tags (based on the number of non-res. tags sold in the previous year) are available to guides who can sell them to their customers for twice the normal non-resident price.

In Oregon, all hunting is controlled and authorized by ODFW (under direction from the Legislature and the F&W Commission)...therefore, nobody can "hunt" fenced elk or deer without a tag and only within established seasons. But fenced elk on the 16 authorized elk ranches are private property...farm animals...and there is nothing to stop an elk rancher from selling a fenced elk to someone who then kills his animal for slaughter. The new owner may decide to kill his animal with a .30-06 from 300 yards away...and if the new owner of the elk wants to pay $5,000 to $10,000...or more...for his meat...who is to say that's wrong?

In other states they don't mess around with semantics...the killing of fenced game farm animals is a business and some people who want a mounted trophy head for the den or office...to impress their friends/clients...apparently see nothing wrong with doing it the easy way.

[ 12-28-2003, 07:01 PM: Message edited by: GutshotApe ]

Backlash2 · 12-28-2003, 09:09 PM

Just a little FYI on the guide requirements for wilderness areas in Wyoming. This law has been challenged a couple of times in the last few years in court, and won by the unguided(illegal) hunter. The wilderness is federal land owned by us all, all the time. Access to it cannot be limited for big game hunters, and absolutely no one else.

The law has not been repealed, yet, but there is precedence set. If you are going to try it, be prepared to have to hire a lawyer, but it is not illegal.....

Chromaflage · 12-29-2003, 05:19 AM

OK, I just talked to a guy who lives and hunts in WY. Basically, the way it works is that a non-res hunter has to be accompanied by a guide or a lisenced res hunter. You don't have to HIRE a lisenced guide.

ORS

buck1pro · 12-31-2003, 03:03 PM

It is coming to Oregon too my fellow hunters, the area that myself and my group has hunted elk and deer is closing the road to all hunters who want to drive in, this next season which is in a natioanal wilderness area. After researching thinking it was an environmental protection decision, come to find out it was the greedy guides and packers who got the road closed. The thing that really bothered me the most was the ODF&W telling us they could make as much money from 10 out of state tags as the alotted ammount for that unit, and also saying the out of state hunters wanted a better outdoor wilderness experience away from local hunters.

HarpMan · 12-31-2003, 03:40 PM

buck1pro,

I would be interested in knowing the general area or unit this is going to take place. Interesting as well that the an ODFW staffer would actually acknowlege the reason is due to increased funds and not the overall benefit to our wildlife...

Freighter Bait · 01-01-2004, 09:14 PM

Backlash
I'd be interested in knowing the cases you are referring to. All the information I can find has the state of Wyoming coming out on top. And you are right, the law doesn't say you have to pay a guide. But how many nonresident hunters have access to a licensed guide who provides services for free, or an unlicensed resident guide who by law cannot charge for services rendered? I happen to be one of those lucky few. One of the states arguments is the guide is necesary to identify the correct species being hunted

:whazzup: