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Old 03-10-2017, 06:56 AM   #121
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Default Re: Rapid Decline of the Lower Deschutes

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Originally Posted by Wild Chrome View Post
"natural"? I'm not sure that's all that relevant anymore.
That's the problem. The standards for flow and thermal are the problem, they are in spirit to make the river closer to a "natural" state. Pre structure standards which you admit they are striving for are considered very very poor. Looks like you are starting to get this, finally.

So in summary PGE is striving to make the river match more closely to the Portland conditions that once existed, I'd say they are succeeding.

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Old 04-05-2017, 07:47 PM   #122
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Default Re: Rapid Decline of the Lower Deschutes

http://www.ifish.net/board/showthrea...5#post13971785
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Old 04-10-2017, 11:40 AM   #123
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Default Re: Rapid Decline of the Lower Deschutes

Deschutes water quality study. Looks like DRA has produced some reading material.

http://images.wolfpk.com/deschutesri...AL-4-10-17.pdf
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Old 04-16-2017, 03:10 PM   #124
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Default Re: Rapid Decline of the Lower Deschutes

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Originally Posted by StumpySteelheader View Post
Wild Chrome, I get the impression you serve as an apologist for PGE. I could be wrong.

Steve Pribyl, retired district fish biologist for ODFW in The Dalles is seen at 42 seconds into the video clip with a bass. He reported elsewhere of catching several bass this past year.

I caught a bass within a mile of Mac's this past year, and several others further downstream.

The Deschutes has been my steelhead river since 1973. As I mature, I have increasingly enjoyed my time on the river; this current change, for the worse, and committed by PGE, flies in the face of good stewardship and my experience on the river.

If the video is not perfect in your eyes, ok. Is there merit in the message? I believe so emphatically.
No, Wild Chrome is not a PGE apologist. He is the Sean Spicer of PGE/Tribe World, a new place where the smallmouth are all beautiful and the trout eat algae, not insects.
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Old 04-20-2017, 07:54 AM   #125
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Default Re: Rapid Decline of the Lower Deschutes

I have no ties to PGE or ODFW, other than I have met and respect many of their biologists. Speaking of which, here's the ODFW report on lower Deschutes trout health:

http://www.dfw.state.or.us/agency/co...ril%202017.pdf

Guess what........they're healthy..........
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Old 04-20-2017, 07:34 PM   #126
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Default Re: Rapid Decline of the Lower Deschutes

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I have no ties to PGE or ODFW, other than I have met and respect many of their biologists. Speaking of which, here's the ODFW report on lower Deschutes trout health:

http://www.dfw.state.or.us/agency/co...ril%202017.pdf

Guess what........they're healthy..........
This is great to hear! So apparently there are no issues and the hundreds of people who spend thousands of days on the river combined are completely imagining any potential issues. I feel much better now after reading this ODFW report. Meanwhile, I see water temps on the Madras gauge are almost 50 degrees already during one of the coldest and wettest springs that we have experienced in decades.
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Old 04-21-2017, 08:18 AM   #127
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Default Re: Rapid Decline of the Lower Deschutes

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This is great to hear! So apparently there are no issues and the hundreds of people who spend thousands of days on the river combined are completely imagining any potential issues. I feel much better now after reading this ODFW report. Meanwhile, I see water temps on the Madras gauge are almost 50 degrees already during one of the coldest and wettest springs that we have experienced in decades.
Did you notice ODFW reported the current lower Deschutes trout growth rates are slightly better than the average from decade's past? Likely has a lot to do with warmer spring temps extending the growing season.
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Old 04-21-2017, 12:19 PM   #128
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Default Re: Rapid Decline of the Lower Deschutes

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Meanwhile, I see water temps on the Madras gauge are almost 50 degrees already during one of the coldest and wettest springs that we have experienced in decades.
That is good. Sounds like it is working. Remember that they want it warmer in the spring so the fish can start growing earlier in the year.

What temp would you prefer right now?

The Willamette is also right at 50 F now despite the cold wet spring and only a few days of sunshine so far....
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Old 04-22-2017, 01:24 AM   #129
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Default Re: Rapid Decline of the Lower Deschutes

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That is good. Sounds like it is working. Remember that they want it warmer in the spring so the fish can start growing earlier in the year.

What temp would you prefer right now?

The Willamette is also right at 50 F now despite the cold wet spring and only a few days of sunshine so far....
I did not see any comments on smallmouth population. Are they growing faster? Are they being electroshocked further up river? What does ODFW feel the impact of just this one species will be as they thrive in an enhanced environment? Vital data missing.
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Old 04-22-2017, 08:11 AM   #130
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Default Re: Rapid Decline of the Lower Deschutes

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I did not see any comments on smallmouth population. Are they growing faster? Are they being electroshocked further up river? What does ODFW feel the impact of just this one species will be as they thrive in an enhanced environment? Vital data missing.
http://www.dfw.state.or.us/fish/loca...on_9-19-16.pdf

Guess you missed this earlier in the thread.
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Old 04-23-2017, 08:25 PM   #131
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Default Re: Rapid Decline of the Lower Deschutes

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Originally Posted by hawg boss View Post
That is good. Sounds like it is working. Remember that they want it warmer in the spring so the fish can start growing earlier in the year.

What temp would you prefer right now?

The Willamette is also right at 50 F now despite the cold wet spring and only a few days of sunshine so far....
Temp at Moody is 3.6F degrees warmer than the Columbia. Call me crazy but somehow that doesn't seem right. But as you indicate, it is perfect and right on plan.
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Old 04-23-2017, 09:21 PM   #132
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Default Re: Rapid Decline of the Lower Deschutes

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My point is that the trout in the video does not have black spot disease. Those are regular old rainbow trout leopard spots. Black spot disease spots occur over the scales and appear like little grains of sand. This is a perfect example of the anecdotal fallacies I've referred to in the past.
WC - what do you make of this picture? 'Regular old rainbow trout leopard spots'? This was one of over 20 fish caught this weekend on the Deschutes in the Warm Springs area. Every single fish had these spots on their bellies. In addition, a Bull Trout caught had the same spots. Anecdotal fallacy?

Get out, go check it out yourself and let us know what you find.


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Old 04-24-2017, 09:23 PM   #133
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Default Re: Rapid Decline of the Lower Deschutes

Glad the fishin' was good. That fish looks like it has black spot disease. I usually fish further downstream and haven't seen any like that.
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Old 04-26-2017, 07:30 AM   #134
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Default Re: Rapid Decline of the Lower Deschutes

Not sure how many of you caught the show “Fly Rod Chronicles” aired last week but it did a great job documenting the “Rapid Decline of the Deschutes.” The show was highlighted by droves of Pteronarcys and caddis (swarming on the bank like they used too), clear water, and robust redsides.It looked to me just like the river that the DRA described as a “bass pond and black hole of death.”I’d throw up a link but it is non-sponsor material so it will likely get removed.It’s nice to see DRA’s assertions corroborated…. Seven years into the "Tower of Terror stranglehold on the lower Deschutes" and sure looked to be ruined to me....

If you google the show two episodes will likely come up. One with his daughters and one with just him and Elke, the show with just Curtis and Elke is the one I’m referring too.

Last edited by AlseaAssassin; 04-26-2017 at 07:37 AM.
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Old 04-26-2017, 09:35 AM   #135
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Question Re: Rapid Decline of the Lower Deschutes

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Originally Posted by AlseaAssassin View Post
Not sure how many of you caught the show “Fly Rod Chronicles” aired last week but it did a great job documenting the “Rapid Decline of the Deschutes.” The show was highlighted by droves of Pteronarcys and caddis (swarming on the bank like they used too), clear water, and robust redsides.It looked to me just like the river that the DRA described as a “bass pond and black hole of death.”I’d throw up a link but it is non-sponsor material so it will likely get removed.It’s nice to see DRA’s assertions corroborated…. Seven years into the "Tower of Terror stranglehold on the lower Deschutes" and sure looked to be ruined to me....

If you google the show two episodes will likely come up. One with his daughters and one with just him and Elke, the show with just Curtis and Elke is the one I’m referring too.
Not sure what yours and Wild Chrome's connection with the "project" is but I am wondering why you so vociferously defend it.
Something doesn't add up here and of course neither of you will post your real names.
I'm not accusing you two of anything underhanded just wondering why you two are such a strong advocate of this whole thing.
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Old 04-26-2017, 10:46 AM   #136
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Default Re: Rapid Decline of the Lower Deschutes

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I'm not accusing you two of anything underhanded just wondering why you two are such a strong advocate of this whole thing.
Check out my User Name. It's not a coincidence. I'm surprised more Deschutes fishermen and guides aren't stoked by the prospect of hundreds or possibly thousands more wild steelhead in the Deschutes.

Wild steelhead:
1) Bite better (more and harder)
2) Fight better
3) Take a fly better
4) Run bigger on average
5) Put money in Deschutes guides' pockets
6) Reproduce on their own
7) Are threatened in the region
8) Belong in the river

......and I like to catch wild salmon too.........
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Old 04-26-2017, 03:57 PM   #137
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Default Re: Rapid Decline of the Lower Deschutes

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Originally Posted by Wild Chrome View Post
Check out my User Name. It's not a coincidence. I'm surprised more Deschutes fishermen and guides aren't stoked by the prospect of hundreds or possibly thousands more wild steelhead in the Deschutes.

Wild steelhead:
1) Bite better (more and harder)
2) Fight better
3) Take a fly better
4) Run bigger on average
5) Put money in Deschutes guides' pockets
6) Reproduce on their own
7) Are threatened in the region
8) Belong in the river

......and I like to catch wild salmon too.........
.....and this project helps wild steelhead because??????
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Old 04-26-2017, 05:11 PM   #138
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Default Re: Rapid Decline of the Lower Deschutes

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Originally Posted by Shane Stewart View Post
.....and this project helps wild steelhead because??????
Because the hypothetical, experimental, population of hatchery fish released above the project come from stock that may have at one point been native to the Deschutes?
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Old 04-26-2017, 05:27 PM   #139
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Default Re: Rapid Decline of the Lower Deschutes

From a guide who has been running multi-day trips on the D for decades -
"the fisheries are in trouble, and it's won't change for the better until we can first get a consensus there is actually a problem."

If you can't find consensus among the fishermen, how in hell are you going to find it with everybody else..?
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Old 04-26-2017, 05:51 PM   #140
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Default Re: Rapid Decline of the Lower Deschutes

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.....and this project helps wild steelhead because??????
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Old 04-26-2017, 08:25 PM   #141
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Default Re: Rapid Decline of the Lower Deschutes

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Not sure what yours and Wild Chrome's connection with the "project" is but I am wondering why you so vociferously defend it.
Something doesn't add up here and of course neither of you will post your real names.
I'm not accusing you two of anything underhanded just wondering why you two are such a strong advocate of this whole thing.
The reason I am such a strong advocate for the project is reintroduction above high head dams is the only way populations will ever get delisted in the Columbia Basin. Almost every major tributary outside of the John Day has a high head dam and reconnection to former habitat is the only way we get back former abundance levels. The production potential locked up upstream of those projects is the key to robust populations of wild fish. Advocacy should be focused on reconnection and ecosystem function first and foremost. And to be fair I am totally open to adaptive management to decrease temps in the lower river and address the other physical water quality concerns. What I am not open to is the abandonment of reintroduction or calling it a failure yet.

I get to see what the potential is when I look at my home river the Clackamas. Without successful fish passage that river would zero wild chinook (we got back ~3500 last year) and roughly fifty percent of its wild steelhead and coho. The benefits of connection to the habitat upstream of a north Fork are real and soon they will be on the Deschutes too.

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