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Old 11-16-2016, 09:40 AM   #1
Bill Monroe
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Default Poacher loses guide license

Only two years, but constrained by law:

http://www.oregonlive.com/sports/ore...rt_river_index

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Old 11-16-2016, 11:32 AM   #2
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Default Re: Poacher loses guide license

7500 in restitution is a low penalty....a deer like that has a market value of twice that...
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Old 11-16-2016, 11:37 AM   #3
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Default Re: Poacher loses guide license

Bogus law, the guides license suspension should definitely be for a longer period than the loss of the hunting license for a blatant violation like that.
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Old 11-16-2016, 11:46 AM   #4
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Default Re: Poacher loses guide license

The law needs to be changed, guides should loose their license for life, when convicted of wildlife crimes. Each and every time.
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Old 11-16-2016, 12:23 PM   #5
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Default Re: Poacher loses guide license

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crayfin View Post
7500 in restitution is a low penalty....a deer like that has a market value of twice that...
Unfortunately, it took a while to get the penalty raised to the existing level. On the positive side, the penalty IS at that level now. And it is being imposed.

It has been an education process for legislators and others as to the impact of poaching on the hunting community, particularly in the area of opportunity being stolen from hunters as well as the resource being stolen from the state.

I tend to fall in line with your thinking on this subject; it was nice to get the bighorn sheep restitution moved from $25,000 to $50,000 but that is still less than 1/3 of the going rate for the auction tag. Plenty of room for improvement.

There exists a poster on this site who will argue that since the state doesn't have $7500 invested in the deer it is outrageous to have the penalty that high.

I wonder if MDF suspends one's membership in their organization for the same length as one's hunting license is suspended; I know OHA does.
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Old 11-16-2016, 12:39 PM   #6
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Default Re: Poacher loses guide license

Quote:
Originally Posted by jagare View Post
The law needs to be changed, guides should loose their license for life, when convicted of wildlife crimes. Each and every time.
According to this Oregon Revised Statute the Oregon State Marine Board had the opportunity to do exactly that and did not.

The relevant portion of the statute:

704.040 Revocation of registration

(5) The board, in its discretion, may reprimand an outfitter and guide or suspend for up to 24 months, revoke or deny the registration of an outfitter and guide for any of the following:

(a) Conviction of a felony or misdemeanor related to the provision of services regulated by this chapter.

Pretty easy to introduce a bill that changes the word may to shall and removes the reprimand and suspend phrasing.
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Last edited by loper; 11-16-2016 at 02:35 PM. Reason: line spacing
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Old 11-16-2016, 04:24 PM   #7
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Default Re: Poacher loses guide license

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crayfin View Post
7500 in restitution is a low penalty....a deer like that has a market value of twice that...
X2
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Old 11-16-2016, 05:06 PM   #8
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Default Re: Poacher loses guide license

Looks like he closed his Facebook page as well as the outfitter page. Both no longer on Facebook.
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Old 11-16-2016, 06:29 PM   #9
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Default Re: Poacher loses guide license

Quote:
Originally Posted by loper View Post
According to this Oregon Revised Statute the Oregon State Marine Board had the opportunity to do exactly that and did not.

The relevant portion of the statute:

704.040 Revocation of registration

(5) The board, in its discretion, may reprimand an outfitter and guide or suspend for up to 24 months, revoke or deny the registration of an outfitter and guide for any of the following:

(a) Conviction of a felony or misdemeanor related to the provision of services regulated by this chapter.

Pretty easy to introduce a bill that changes the word may to shall and removes the reprimand and suspend phrasing.
You lost me Loper....It looks to me that the maximum suspension (based on what you posted) they can give an outfitters license is 24 months.
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Old 11-16-2016, 07:29 PM   #10
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Default Re: Poacher loses guide license

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Originally Posted by Mossyhorn View Post
Looks like he closed his Facebook page as well as the outfitter page. Both no longer on Facebook.
He is still listed as a broker at Whitney Land Company, as mentioned in the articles posted. I wonder how the Oregon Real Estate Agency will handle something like this? I am sure the owner of the real estate company is not too happy and does not speak well for the properties he represents.
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Old 03-02-2017, 10:18 AM   #11
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Default Re: Poacher loses guide license

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Originally Posted by jagare View Post
The law needs to be changed, guides should loose their license for life, when convicted of wildlife crimes. Each and every time.
On that note, this bill was heard in the House Committee on Agriculture and Natural Resources this morning:

HB 2883
Permanently prohibits outfitter and guide who is convicted of violation of wildlife laws for unlawfully taking wildlife with culpable mental state from applying for or obtaining licenses, tags and permits under wildlife laws.
Permanently prohibits outfitter and guide who is convicted of violation of wildlife laws for unlawfully taking wildlife with culpable mental state from registering as outfitter and guide.
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Old 03-02-2017, 09:12 PM   #12
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In my opinion he should have lost his ability to be a guide forever, and he should lose his hunting priliges for a long time. It's people like this that ruin it for everone else.
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Old 03-03-2017, 06:30 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by AndieTheGunslinger View Post
In my opinion he should have lost his ability to be a guide forever, and he should lose his hunting priliges for a long time. It's people like this that ruin it for everone else.
Seems like that is what the bill HB 2883 that Loper posted is all about.
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Old 03-03-2017, 08:54 AM   #14
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Default Re: Poacher loses guide license

Quote:
Originally Posted by loper View Post
On that note, this bill was heard in the House Committee on Agriculture and Natural Resources this morning:

HB 2883
Permanently prohibits outfitter and guide who is convicted of violation of wildlife laws for unlawfully taking wildlife with culpable mental state from applying for or obtaining licenses, tags and permits under wildlife laws.
Permanently prohibits outfitter and guide who is convicted of violation of wildlife laws for unlawfully taking wildlife with culpable mental state from registering as outfitter and guide.
Am I reading it right that the bill would in effect make all past convictions relevant under this new ruling, so a guy like Todd Longgood would permanently be ineligible for a guides license should this pass?

(7) A person is permanently ineligible to register under ORS 704.020 if the person has had
a certificate of registration revoked pursuant to a court order under this section for conviction
of a violation of ORS chapter 496, 497, 498 or 501, or any rule adopted pursuant to
ORS chapter 496, 497, 498 or 501, if the violation involved the unlawful taking or killing of
wildlife with a culpable mental state as provided for in ORS 496.992.
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Old 03-03-2017, 09:27 AM   #15
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Default Re: Poacher loses guide license

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackdog View Post
Am I reading it right that the bill would in effect make all past convictions relevant under this new ruling, so a guy like Todd Longgood would permanently be ineligible for a guides license should this pass?

(7) A person is permanently ineligible to register under ORS 704.020 if the person has had
a certificate of registration revoked pursuant to a court order under this section for conviction
of a violation of ORS chapter 496, 497, 498 or 501, or any rule adopted pursuant to
ORS chapter 496, 497, 498 or 501, if the violation involved the unlawful taking or killing of
wildlife with a culpable mental state as provided for in ORS 496.992.
This is also part of the bill:

SECTION 4.
Section 2 of this 2017 Act and the amendments to ORS 704.040 by section 3 of this 2017 Act apply to violations of agency requirements committed on or after the effective date of this 2017 Act.
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Old 04-11-2017, 12:16 PM   #16
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Default Re: Poacher loses guide license

HB 2883 is scheduled for a Work Session Thursday April 13.

An amendment will be under consideration that has multiple impacts; one of those would be to move the maximum 24 months stated by the OP to 60 months.

Another significant change to the original bill is the insertion of the phrase "or charged with"

original bill text

proposed amendment text
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Last edited by loper; 04-11-2017 at 12:16 PM. Reason: clarity
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Old 04-11-2017, 04:14 PM   #17
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Default Re: Poacher loses guide license

Quote:
Originally Posted by loper View Post
HB 2883 is scheduled for a Work Session Thursday April 13.

An amendment will be under consideration that has multiple impacts; one of those would be to move the maximum 24 months stated by the OP to 60 months.

Another significant change to the original bill is the insertion of the phrase "or charged with"

original bill text

proposed amendment text
I do not get the "charged" addition. Innocent until "proved guilty" is suppose to be the law of the land is it not ?


Don't care for the wording here, "discretion" should be removed to add "shall revoke". Conviction ! Revoke ! Period !
"the board, in its discretion, may reprimand an outfitter and guide or suspend for up to [24] 60 months, revoke or deny the registration of an outfitter and guide for any of the following:"
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Old 04-12-2017, 06:15 AM   #18
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Default Re: Poacher loses guide license

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Originally Posted by cascadebull View Post
I do not get the "charged" addition. Innocent until "proved guilty" is suppose to be the law of the land is it not ?


Don't care for the wording here, "discretion" should be removed to add "shall revoke". Conviction ! Revoke ! Period !
"the board, in its discretion, may reprimand an outfitter and guide or suspend for up to [24] 60 months, revoke or deny the registration of an outfitter and guide for any of the following:"
guides should be more conscientious than others it is their business to be. they should be the stewards since they are making money off the states animal population. stopping them until it is resolved isn't wrong. they take your license for drunk driving until you go to court.
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Old 04-12-2017, 10:46 AM   #19
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guides should be more conscientious than others it is their business to be. they should be the stewards since they are making money off the states animal population. stopping them until it is resolved isn't wrong. they take your license for drunk driving until you go to court.
Don't get me wrong, I am not defending these guys. But you only get a license taken away for failing a breath test or refusing blood or breath test. I realize being charged for any crime probably has a high conviction rate, but surely not 100%. We all thought the Bundy buddies would get a conviction before trial too. Revoking guide permit in a reputation type business based on a charge, not conviction, would ruin their business is my example. I guess my thoughts on this could be old school charged not convicted mentality. I emailed out of curiosity why charged was added, no response yet.
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Old 04-12-2017, 10:58 AM   #20
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Default Re: Poacher loses guide license

The -2 amendment referenced above is no longer posted online.

Now what will be considered tomorrow is the -3 amendment which appears to no longer contain the "is charged with" language.

Read it while it's hot off the online press.
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Old 04-14-2017, 08:23 AM   #21
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Default Re: Poacher loses guide license

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Originally Posted by loper View Post
The -2 amendment referenced above is no longer posted online.

Now what will be considered tomorrow is the -3 amendment which appears to no longer contain the "is charged with" language.

Read it while it's hot off the online press.
The bill has been carried over to the April 18 meeting of Ag and Natural resources.
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Old 04-21-2017, 11:04 AM   #22
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Default Re: Poacher loses guide license

HB 2883A was passed out of House Ag and Natural Resources with a Do-Pass recommendation on an 8-0 vote with 1 excused.
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Old 04-25-2017, 10:22 AM   #23
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HB 2883A was passed out of House Ag and Natural Resources with a Do-Pass recommendation on an 8-0 vote with 1 excused.
And is scheduled for a vote on the House floor today.
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Old 04-26-2017, 03:10 PM   #24
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Default Re: Poacher loses guide license

Rules were suspended yesterday, bill carried over to today where it passed on the House floor 57-0 with 3 excused.
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