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Hatchery and Wild…. the movie

24K views 131 replies 64 participants last post by  salmo_g 
#1 ·
#5 ·
Nice to see such a well organize opposition to the NFS. I'm some what open to either sides views at this point and like to hear and digest both.
I'm still gathering info myself but I do tend to believe that if done right with the best technology and science it sure seems like hatchery's could and would/are a tool to help, rather than hurt our fish populations. I'm digging the eyed egg planting technology! It's the kind of thing I've always thought could be done and wondered why it wasn't.
 
#6 ·
Open minds should agree that hatcheries, done right, should be used in most systems. I would agree that certain systems can be natural spawn only experiments but those need to be studied and monitored. I would also argue that certain systems should be hatchery superstores and those too should be monitored and be constantly evolving to create the best possible fitness for the fish.

NFS is not very open-minded considering their own statement about sandy river strays above Marmont. After removal every fish up there is a stray no matter what its origin.
 
#10 ·
Nice to see such a well organize opposition to the NFS.

This is NOT really about opposition to NFS… that's an excessively narrow and myopic perspective. It's MUCH bigger than that.

It's raising awareness about the sustainability of fisheries and how that fits into the sustainability of wild fish. Achieving that is a balance and the equation changes with geography and proximity to Metropolis.
 
#103 ·
To really understand what's happening and why, you need to read this link first.


http://www.lltk.org/hrp-archive/pdf/hsrg/HSRG_Princ_Recs_Report_Princ_System_Recs.pdf




Over the period of this project, the HSRG has developed a thorough understanding about applying​


existing science to hatchery management. After three years of regional reviews, the HSRG concluded​


that while any individual program may be successful in broodstock collection, rearing or other​


operational considerations, it may still be operating in a manner that does not, for example, adequately​


take into account risks to other stocks or to the environment, maximize benefits to the target stock, or​

consider whether adequate habitat will be available over time for the fish it produces.
HSRG also gives recommendations on how to operate a wild brood stock (Integrated) hatchery program so that any real or perceived risk is reduced to an acceptable level. They recommend having more wild fish in your brood, they endorse the principle of Proportion of Natural Influence (PNI) which determines acceptable stray rates based on the percentage of natural origin spawners that are used in the brood stock and the all H management principle which considers harvest, hatcheries and habitat.

HSRG scientists have a multitude of recommendations for hatchery operations most of which hatcheries in Oregon meet or exceed.
 
#104 ·
HSRG scientists have a multitude of recommendations for hatchery operations most of which hatcheries in Oregon meet or exceed.

Then how do you account for the latest court decision?
There's at least one Judge that doesn't think they are doing what the HSRG said.
Looks like you'll get your day in court, so if what you say is true, then there shouldn't be any problem.
 
#9 ·
better than i thought it would be. not a big fan of the NFS myself though i love wild fish.


i think hatcheries are cool but there are some places they belong and some they dont.

i say stock the heck out of urbanized rivers, and rivers that can't support native fish.

and places that have potential for restoration or already have a good amount of native fish just need to be left at c&r.



probably wont happen in a million years though.
 
#14 ·
better than i thought it would be. not a big fan of the NFS myself though i love wild fish.

i think hatcheries are cool but there are some places they belong and some they dont.

i say stock the heck out of urbanized rivers, and rivers that can't support native fish.

and places that have potential for restoration or already have a good amount of native fish just need to be left at c&r.
This is NOT really about opposition to NFS… that's an excessively narrow and myopic perspective. It's MUCH bigger than that.

It's raising awareness about the sustainability of fisheries and how that fits into the sustainability of wild fish. Achieving that is a balance and the equation changes with geography and proximity to Metropolis.
+2! :applause:

In that vein, I find this sort of thing more antagonistic than helpful:



Hatcheries do work, but then so does a hammer as long as you're not trying to drive a screw. Lots of tools *can* be stretched to work for jobs they weren't really designed for, but that can also produce sloppy results.

I think we could do a better job of proactively trying to improve harvest opportunity and supporting hatcheries without beating the "Anti" drum so much, and a big part of that is working to address known hatchery issues to the extent that we can rather than gloss over them like they don't exist. Whether it's NFS today, or some other group tomorrow, that kind of negative messaging makes it sound less about trying to constructively advance the cause of the fish towards the future and more about trying to just grab/keep what's "ours" ~ even if I disagree w/ NFS here, I'm just saying I don't think the 'angry' approach will gain sporties in general as much traction where it counts with the ODFW commission and legislature.
 
#16 ·
I watched the movie during lunch today and thought it was great. :applause: It's refreshing to see the three very diverse parties joining together for one cause (finally!).

Some additional feedback from a couple of friends who attended last night that aren't real in tune with the background that led up to this point: They, like probably most Northwesterner's that don't fish much if any, aren't aware of the continous decline of hatchery stocking that has occured over the last couple of decades. They're not aware of what fantastic fisheries rivers like the Clackamas and Sandy once were. And they didn't think the movie did a great job of explaining any of that. They were left scratching their heads a little bit about what the problem is. So if this is eventually targeted to folks outside the outdoor community, some more detail on the backstory may be necessary.

Just sharing their :twocents: take it for what it's worth.
 
#21 ·
Some additional feedback from a couple of friends who attended last night that aren't real in tune with the background that led up to this point: They, like probably most Northwesterner's that don't fish much if any, aren't aware of the continous decline of hatchery stocking that has occured over the last couple of decades. They're not aware of what fantastic fisheries rivers like the Clackamas and Sandy once were. And they didn't think the movie did a great job of explaining any of that. They were left scratching their heads a little bit about what the problem is. So if this is eventually targeted to folks outside the outdoor community, some more detail on the backstory may be necessary.

Just sharing their :twocents: take it for what it's worth.
I agree with you. I also have multiple friends and family members in the same position that would benfit from a detailed backstory.

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk
 
#23 ·
All of the hubbub revolves around how well ODFW is doing on the execution of this document…

Native Fish Conservation Policy
Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife
November 8, 2002
Revised September 12, 2003



http://dfw.state.or.us/fish/CRP/docs/nfcp.pdf

(1) Existing Populations – No more than 20% of the historical populations within the species
management unit have become extinct and no natural population within the species management
unit in existence as of 2003 shall be lost in the future. Further, if the historical species
management unit contained more than one race (e.g., summer and winter steelhead), then each
race must be represented by at least 2 populations.
For at least 80% of the existing populations within each species management unit or for selected
index populations identified in the stock status report as described in 635-007-0505(10) , interim
criteria (2) through (6) must be exceeded in at least 3 years during the most recent 5-year time
interval.

(2) Habitat Use Distribution - Naturally produced members of a population must occupy at least
50% of a population’s historic habitat.

(3) Abundance - The number of naturally produced spawners must be greater than 25% of the
average abundance of naturally produced spawners over the most recent 30 year time period.

(4) Productivity – In years when the total spawner abundance is less than the average abundance
of naturally produced spawners over the past 30 years, then the rate of population increase shall
be at least 1.2 adult offspring per parent. Where offspring are defined as naturally produced
adults that survive to spawn and parents are defined as those adults of both natural plus hatchery
origin that spawned and collectively produced the observed offspring.

(5) Reproductive Independence – At least 90% of the spawners within a population must be
naturally produced and not hatchery produced fish, unless the department determines the
hatchery produced fish are being used in a short-term experimental program to help restore a
population in its natural habitat or otherwise directed by a court order.

(6) Hybridization - The occurrence of individuals that are the product of deleterious
hybridization with species that are non-native to the basin in which they are found must be rare
or nonexistent.
 
#31 ·
I wasn't able to attend last night so I just got done watching the video tonight......

My impression.............

Standing :applause: guys..........

You hit a home run with this one..........
 
#40 · (Edited)
Wow. Great film. Of all things, I was blown away by the credits. You've got competing businesses, tribal, commercial, and sport entities all included. Brings back to the old saying that the quickest way to unite people is to give them a common enemy. In this case, being portrayed as stock abundance, leaves the door open for a positive outlet rather than increasing antagonism toward a single group.
 
#44 ·
Very well done video!!! Lance you are awesome. The biggest problem is going to be ODFW and WDFW. It almost seams like they are fighting to contradict everything we are fighting for, although it is all based on funding. Money is a hung issue with the ODFW and WDFW, even though they don't tell the public, that is the major reason why hatcheries are shutting down or cutting back. It may take a restructure of the government funding to get the help it is going to take to restore our resources.
 
#45 ·
Very well done, very one sided.


so the rationale portrayed in the video is this..

it didn't work on the Hood river but it worked one time on the Clearwater, we need to treat all rivers as individuals therefore lets put wild broodstocks or some other type of hatchery fish everywhere..

that's what was said.


I am all for experimentation.. I am completely opposed to blindly putting hatchery fish everywhere , that is what we have done in the past that is what we are doing now.. nothing has changed and numbers of wild fish continue to decline.
 
#77 ·
Explain to me how that's any different than (edit) using one study from the Hood River to shut down the Sandy? Get ready to taste your own medicine because you (edited) FINALLY allied tribes, sporties and commercials!
 
#48 ·
Took my 17 year old boy to the movie and we enjoyed it other than the predictable lousy service and preparation I have come to expect at McMenamins. The people are always real nice, but they just don't have their acts together as far as quality service goes, IMHO.

I was pretty happy my teenage boy paid attention and tried to understand the issues and form his own real opinion...this stuff can be complicated for most adults to understand, much less a kid.

Remember to sign the petition!
 
#111 ·
Took my 17 year old boy to the movie and we enjoyed it other than the predictable lousy service and preparation I have come to expect at McMenamins. The people are always real nice, but they just don't have their acts together as far as quality service goes, IMHO.

I was pretty happy my teenage boy paid attention and tried to understand the issues and form his own real opinion...this stuff can be complicated for most adults to understand, much less a kid.

Remember to sign the petition!
Well at least there's one thing we can surely ALL agree on! :palm: :whistle:
 
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