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The needy question guy with, what else? Sink tips help??

3K views 20 replies 13 participants last post by  Dave Smith 
#1 ·
So, I kind of liked the idea of using all 10' Air flo sink tips; the ones with about 3' of intermediate, then the rest T-10, or T-14, etc. But the guys at Royal Treatment recommended always using the same sink rate (medium MOW), but varying the lengths to get to the depth you need (10' T-11, 12.5' T-11) What say you? Which system is best? THANKS THANKS!!
 
#2 ·
The MOW tips only come in one length and that is 10 feet with varying lengths of floating (on intermediate) line and tungsten line. For instance a medium MOW tip is a floating portion of line (2.5, 5 or 7.5 feet) and a corresponding portion of T-11. so you could have a Medium MOW tip of 2.5 feet floating and 7.5 feet of T-11, etc

. I have been told, one persons opinion, that if they could only have one tip it would be a Medium 5X5. If you are going to 12.5 feet of T-11 then you would run the T-11 straight off you Skagit head and attach a tippet. Hope this makes sense.
 
#3 ·
I think I understand, and that's what it says on the RIO website, too, but I just bought these MOW tips, and one is 10' and one is 12.5', and neither have any section of floating line on them. Just need to fish them I guess! THANKS for the help!
 
#4 ·
Don't get all caught up in the details of the sink tip, it's pretty simple and straight forward. Probably the simplest part of your set up.

Here is a very dumbed down version of an explanation in 'plain terms' that you can start with and be confident in what you are doing.

*Winter = 10' to 12' of T10/T11. Add weighted or unweighted fly to gain more/less depth. .

*Summer = 10' to 12' of T8, T10/T11 when necessary.

*18' - 24' leader from tip

You will probably find that 10' tips are easier to cast. Regarding the MOW tips they are fine and I have been fishing them some but you are fine with just a straight piece of T material. To compare check out the grain weight on the MOW tips compared to the grain weight of T material and you will start to make sense of comparing the two. Not an exact cross as the floating section changes sink rate a bit but gives you something to go off of.

You can buy T material in bulk then cut to your desired length or just buy the pre-made ones in specific lengths that they have now with a welded loop on the end.

MOW tips are relatively new. People caught plenty of fish before they were around on straight T material tips, that I can guaruntee. When starting out I like the KISS rule.

Hope that helps a bit.

 
#5 ·
Dave,

You may also consider picking one sink tip and using fly weight and casting angle to vary the depth of your presentation. Tie on the same sink tip every time and learn how it fishes in different runs, at different levels and with different flies.

10' of T-11 is a great place to start. Tie on an unweighted marabou, cast at a sharp downstream angle, don't mend, and you're fishing the soft and shallow water. Tie a heavy fly on and cast at a sharper angle across, throw a pullback mend in and let it come tight, now you're fishing the deeper buckets. You can do a great deal with one sinktip, and it eliminates variables that can add confusion.
 
#7 ·
Dave,

10' of T-11 is a great place to start. Tie on an unweighted marabou, cast at a sharp downstream angle, don't mend, and you're fishing the soft and shallow water. Tie a heavy fly on and cast at a sharper angle across, throw a pullback mend in and let it come tight, now you're fishing the deeper buckets. You can do a great deal with one sinktip, and it eliminates variables that can add confusion.
^^^^^^ This! Start simple and learn to fish it. You might not initially catch as many fish as the experts but we never do anyway no matter how many different lines we use. Try varying the casting angle, letting line out at the beginning of the drift, how aggressively you mend, and fly size/weight. Once you get the basics down and a good feel for the line you choose, then branch out based on what you learned. I'm excited for you Dave, all the best. Thanks Slinger.

CopperMan.
 
#6 ·
Thanks for asking these questions Dave. It saved me some money at the show tomorrow! Unless I find a nice reel:whistle::wink:

Thank you also to Slinger, Feathachucka & NCL!!!:excited:
 
#8 ·
Well I really want to quote everyone and everything said so I could highlight and thank each person, but there is so much good information here- too much great information and thanks so much my friends! I love the idea of just putting some time in with this 10' T-11 and learning it, plus varying the depth with fly weight, fly sparseness (is that a word?), mend or mends, and maybe speed of swing? (alternate mends, upstream and down, or no mend?).
I got through serving my time in the booth at the portland expo correctional facility last week, and am getting closer to actually getting outside and on a river lol. I could go today, but valentines day? That's risky business! THANKS SO MUCH for all the guidance! I got to meet Rob Crandall this week, and Todd (Downstreammend). Todd showed me a pic of him with a huge fly-caught Chinook and told me I was the one who took the picture in 1995 and got it to him through a mutual friend of ours- pretty cool! THANKS guys! DS
 
#9 ·
I love the idea of just putting some time in with this 10' T-11 and learning it, plus varying the depth with fly weight, fly sparseness (is that a word?), mend or mends, and maybe speed of swing? (alternate mends, upstream and down, or no mend?).
Fly weight and mending will do a great deal, Dave. Make a cast at a 45 with an unweighted marabou tube and you may get down 1 foot.

Cut off the marabou and put on a sparse shank with lead eyes, cast it across and throw a big upstream mend, follow the slack down with your rod tip, (careful to avoid a downstream belly anywhere), let it come under tension slowly, and you may be fishing down 4 feet or more.

All with the same tip.
 
#11 ·
The right sink tip is super important but to me, just as important is the leader. probably the best investment and reward came after I bought a couple of "Furled Leaders" from Cutthroat a couple of years ago. For dry fly, Nymph, big Bug or streamer etc. They save time when changing out tippit and I love the way they preform. My friends are now fishing them and they feel the same. Old fly guys know them well.:twocents:
 
#12 · (Edited)
Here's the deal with varying lengths...You have to change your casting stroke every time you change the length of the tip because you get more or less stick with the tip...

If the belly section is 24' long and your tips are all cut to the same length, say 12', your stroke stays the same. As your tips get lighter, just let them sit on the surface for a beat longer before your sweep and casting stroke. Back off on the power when using the mono and floating tips.

Fishing one tip is a good way to learn how to manipulate the fly line, but you will need a range of tips, Floating, clear mono (Intermediate), type 3, T-8, T-11, T-14, T-17 if you really want to cover all the types of water you will encounter. How would you fish the soft inside water with a chunk of T-11 when the river is murky and the fish are resting in 2 feet of water? MOW tips are great for this, but I supplement the MOW kit with custom mono core through T-17, all to match the specific rod I'm using. My program is to cut the tips to approximately match the rod length so that the casting stroke stays the same. 11 foot switch rod gets 10-11 foot tips. 12'6'-13' rods get 13' tips.


Good Luck

JM
 
#15 ·
I love this and this is actually simplifying and standardizing the process- not complicating it. The number one thing I'm seeing so far in just a few trips is: if I limit myself to fishing "classic swing water", it will be exactly that: "limiting". The coast just doesn't have enough of it, and I hate passing up what could be good holding water because of my set-up and limited skills. I want this to be "somewhat" versatile and want to learn to probe as many different types of water as possible while still swinging the fly as presentation. Thank you for this help!

My sink tips or sinking lines vary greatly in how I am fishing.
Am I trolling a fly on a lake?
Casting from a raft in Montana
Fishing the shoreline at East Lake over the weed beds
Wading the Owyhee at dusk with Streamers

What type of fishing are you doing specifically?

And yes, I have spent way too much on Rio Fly Lines.
Yes, I should've been more clear: swinging flies for winter steelhead- two-handed spey and skagit head

This is as simple or as complicated as you want it to be. You can go the Camosled option, and I know lot's of guys like that and they're not wrong and they're good fisherman, meticulous is probably a better word for it. Talk to a bunch of advanced steelhead anglers and you'll get a lot of different ideas.

Seriously it doesn't matter as much as you think, it's the Indian not the arrow...

Take the fly shop advice, it's fairy sound, or take mine. Here's mine, go buy one tip, 10' feet of T10 or T14 if you like and go fish it. Have some unweighted flies and some weighted flies. Don't make it any more complicated than that because (generalization) it's not, it really isn't.

You''ll figure out where the fly gets hung up and maybe why, you'll figure out when and where you can get away with a heavier fly and when you need to cast 90 degrees with a big mend and three steps and where you cast 45 degrees with no steps with an inside mend to add speed. Do this and you'll become a good fisherman, then and only then start getting sink tip anxiety (hint it's still not that important).

I can guarantee you I know some of the best there are and for the most part it's KISS. It's really more about driving one by a fish.

Good luck in you're journey, it's a lot of fun.
Right on and thanks! This is exactly what I'm doing. I'm not "qualified" at this point to move onto changing sink tips for every pool, since I don't have enough experience with just one, yet. One thing I'm loving so far, is learning how to get that fly down and swinging at a consistent speed through different depths and current speeds. It's frustrating, and I'm not good at it, but have seen enough to know that, over time, a guy could get very good at fishing effectively with just a 10' T-11, or something. Maybe then it will be time to take the next step to lighter and heavier tips, etc. So much good information on these posts and thanks everyone so much for taking the time to help a beginner! DS
 
#13 ·
My sink tips or sinking lines vary greatly in how I am fishing.
Am I trolling a fly on a lake?
Casting from a raft in Montana
Fishing the shoreline at East Lake over the weed beds
Wading the Owyhee at dusk with Streamers

What type of fishing are you doing specifically?

And yes, I have spent way too much on Rio Fly Lines.
 
#14 ·
This is as simple or as complicated as you want it to be. You can go the Camosled option, and I know lot's of guys like that and they're not wrong and they're good fisherman, meticulous is probably a better word for it. Talk to a bunch of advanced steelhead anglers and you'll get a lot of different ideas.

Seriously it doesn't matter as much as you think, it's the Indian not the arrow...

Take the fly shop advice, it's fairy sound, or take mine. Here's mine, go buy one tip, 10' feet of T10 or T14 if you like and go fish it. Have some unweighted flies and some weighted flies. Don't make it any more complicated than that because (generalization) it's not, it really isn't.

You''ll figure out where the fly gets hung up and maybe why, you'll figure out when and where you can get away with a heavier fly and when you need to cast 90 degrees with a big mend and three steps and where you cast 45 degrees with no steps with an inside mend to add speed. Do this and you'll become a good fisherman, then and only then start getting sink tip anxiety (hint it's still not that important).

I can guarantee you I know some of the best there are and for the most part it's KISS. It's really more about driving one by a fish.

Good luck in you're journey, it's a lot of fun.
 
#16 ·
I would say this-Ed Ward had an old post saying either 10' of t11 with a weighted fly or 12.5ft of t11 unweighted fly. Fly colors of orange, black and purple with contrasting colors if its an egg sucking leech pattern, all flies around 2-3" in length.

keep it simple, and learn to fish one sink tip. I've been there before, and now im pretty much settled on a 5' tip and just work the water column with the fly weight or mend and step down while its sinking. KISS is the best approach
 
#18 ·
Learning so much from y'all. Hopeing to get my first spey set-up soon so I can spend warm summer days, streamside, figuring out what all this stuff means.
Thanks for asking the questions Dave!
 
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