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Proper care of tuna- the reasons why...

7K views 41 replies 27 participants last post by  Paddler 
#1 · (Edited)
I didn't want to hijack the PC dory thread, but I felt Baxters response warranted discussion in itself regarding care of tuna, the reasons why, etc. No passing judgement, but simple physics, and why people should take care of tuna with ice at sea. It is NOT a luxury in my opinion. Yes, the fish come out better, but there are also definitive heath reasons to properly care for tuna (By proper care, I am referring to Agencies such as Sea Grant that publish recommended best practices)

With the OTC event being held in Newport this weekend, the timing is good to cover once again why we require each team to properly bleed and ice their fish. Not because we want pretty medallions, but because it is the proper way to handle tuna.


If you click on this link, the first picture you see is a boat circa 1946 with multiple holds full of albacore tuna, with no ice in sight. No particular need to reference history of course; take a trip tomorrow on a larger charter boat out of an Oregon port and, chances are, your tuna will not be iced.

It is very possible to harvest albacore without "10 pounds of ice per fish"--or any ice at all--and turn it into canned fish without losing any nutritive quality. The fetish with ice is a luxury of the modern era and the fat wallet. I carry plenty of ice myself because I like the loins to be firm and not mushy around the edges. Also, I like to make attractive medallions for the bbq and eat some fresh. But the fact is, if destined for the canner, ice makes precious little difference in edibility. People have taken and eaten fish of all types for eons without the use of ice.

Personally, I'm done making any value judgments about how many fish people take, how they publicize it, why they take them, or how they use them, in what for the time being is an unlimited fishery, according both to law and the plenitude of nature. And I assume that a guy who takes his share his own way will not judge those who do it differently, particularly those who fish using less resources in the form of frozen money.
There is no value judgement here, but the question I ask IS legitimate.

As far as commercial boats go, just so you might stow away the idea that I am unfamiliar with what takes place, I started my ocean fishing career aboard a Chris Craft dory that my father commercial salmon fished in the early 70's. We later moved to a 42 foot double ender that we commercial fished for salmon and tuna. It was our goal to maximize productivity and profitability as well.

Even during the "old days" of the 70's, it was a requirement to ice down commercial catches. Ice was not a luxury, it was a necessity to provide proper care of fish.

The simple truth is that certainly fish that are solely destined for canning may be just fine without ice, or with little ice as long as they are caught, quickly brought to shore, and processed in a short time period. As long as the core temperature of the fish does not remain elevated for a period of time, the histamine level will most likely not reach a dangerous level.

For todays commercial catches, most all reputable buyers insist on testing the temperature of the fish at time of delivery to ensure that proper cooling has taken place

Here is some appropriate information for reference, as well as proposed regulations that insure cooling of fish while on the water.

Ice is NOT a luxury.

Scombroid Poisoning

Albacore and other tunas contain relatively large amounts of the amino acid histidine in their flesh (amino acids are the building blocks of proteins)². After the fish dies, bacterial enzymes break down the histidine to histamine. Humans consuming fish containing histamine, can become ill with scombroid poisoning. Symptoms include a metallic, sharp or peppery taste, nausea, vomiting, abdominal cramps and diarrhea, oral blistering and numbness, facial swelling and flushing, headache and dizziness, palpitations, hives, rapid and weak pulse, thirst and difficulty in swallowing. Most victims of scombroid poisoning recover within 24 hours; antihistamines usually lead to immediate improvement. Fish most often implicated in this illness include: mahi mahi, tuna, bluefish, mackerel, and bonito.
In 1993, there were several cases of scombroid poisoning reported in Newport, Oregon from unfrozen albacore sold from a fishing vessel to a restaurant. In order for histamine to form in the fish, the albacore had to be mishandled at some point between capture and consumption. The best way to prevent scombroid poisoning is rapid chilling on the vessel and controlling the temperature of the fish throughout storage and distribution. Once histamine forms in a fish, it cannot be eliminated by cooking, freezing or smoking. Histamine production occurs rapidly at high temperatures, but slows dramatically at temperatures below 40°F. Fish held at 90°F can become toxic within six hours and fish held at 70°F can become toxic within 24 hours³.

Proposed FDA Regulations

Proposed new FDA seafood regulations may have a major effect on albacore fishermen. In general, these proposed regulations call for monitoring selected steps in the production of seafood products in accordance with HACCP (Hazard Analysis Critical Control Point ) principles. In fisheries for albacore and other scombroid toxin forming fishes, handling on the fishing vessel is a critical control point in the production of a safe and wholesome product. FDA's proposed regulations for scombroid toxin forming fishes recommend that buyers ensure that the fish were chilled rapidly to 40°F after capture, and that the fish were not held at time/temperature combinations that would allow histamine production. For vessel operators, this may require:


  1. Time and temperature logs for each storage compartment (well, tote or other container) to show that:
    1. the fish were chilled to an internal temperature of 40°F or below as rapidly as possible after landing on the vessel,
    2. the fish were maintained at or below 40°F after landing on the vessel, and
    3. the fish were delivered with a maximum core temperature of 40°F;
  2. Records to show that thermometers agree within ±2°F of standard thermometers; and
  3. Fish inspection for decomposition with no more than 2.5% of the fish in each lot showing sensory decomposition.
If these criteria are not met, each lot of fish may have to be tested for histamine. Histamine testing is expensive and is probably not available in most ports. The current FDA regulatory level is 5 mg histamine/100 g flesh. Fish containing more histamine than this cannot be used as food. How rapidly fish must be chilled to 40°F under this proposed regulation is unclear at this time.
 
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#3 ·
RSW systems are commonplace on larger vessels. The water can be cooled below freezing and can chill fish to the point of being basically frozen. The application is not typically used on small sport vessels, but the same concept of using sea water, rock salt and ice to create a ultra low temperature slurry for fish prior to packing in ice is used extensively.
 
#5 ·
I am a big believer in icing fast, often and much. I use an ice, salt and water slurry to maximize my ice and cooling on the water. I then drain off and cover with ice for the ride in.

If you set aside the health issues related to not icing properly and only take into account practical handeling, ice is still very important. The first time you try to loin a tuna not iced well enough and the belly loin is a liquidy sludge, you understand you are losing a huge amount of meat and easily doubeling cark time.

I often wonder, when looking at old commercial tuna pictures, how much of the fish is for humans and how much is for animal food. Protein for animal food, including poultry and pork, comes from many sources still.
 
#6 · (Edited)
Yep, them-there Dory guys just don't know what they're doin'! We got to get more scientific! I know my ice don't work, 'cause I freeze up all my Costco milk jugs, and bust 'em over my fish as the day goes on. I gotta learn how to slury that stuff!
Didn't want to Hi-jack the 'Propper Care' thread, but nobody is perfect?...... :redface:
 
#8 ·
Yep, them-there Dory guys just don't know what they're doin'! We got to get more scientific! I know my ice don't work, 'cause I freeze up all my Costco milk jugs, and bust 'em over my fish as the day goes on. I gotta learn how to slury that stuff!
Didn't want to Hi-jack the 'Propper Care' thread, but nobody is perfect?...... :redface:

:backlaugh:

Todays ice ain't as cold as it use to be!
 
#13 ·
Yep, them-there Dory guys just don't know what they're doin'! We got to get more scientific! I know my ice don't work, 'cause I freeze up all my Costco milk jugs, and bust 'em over my fish as the day goes on. I gotta learn how to slury that stuff!
Didn't want to Hi-jack the 'Propper Care' thread, but nobody is perfect?...... :redface:
Sounds like icing to me. I thought about using frozen jugs to save some dollars but I have pretty limited space. I was worried the jugs would take up too much room in my ice boxes where I can displace the cubes with fish pretty easy. I bleed in ice water too and was thinking of dropping a couple ice jugs in my bleed containers instead of ice.

Nestucca, how long do you think I could get out of a frozen gallon jug with about two gallons of water and increasing blood on it? I could probably save four or five bags of ice if they will last all day.
 
This post has been deleted
#11 ·
**hijack alert!**
i agree, and the deviled eggs too! seriously, i typically take a 1 gallon ziplock of ice and set my perishable food on it to prevent spoilage and Scombroid Poisoning too! :flowered:

oh, and i insist on ice, and lots of it. not just for tuna, but salmon, sturgeon, bottomfish, crab, steelhead, etc!
cc
 
#10 ·
I honestly tried to bring this topic up in a legitimate way so as not to infer anything negative, nor create any hard feelings or assumptions of negativity.

I'm pretty thick skinned, so my feelers are sure not hurt by anyone saying something bad about me. I know it may not mean squat, but I, like others, have been posting less and less on this forum because it simply is becoming annoying that people genuinely seem to seek out negativity or assume the worst.

Guess the new guard can have it. Have a good summer everyone.
 
#25 ·
oh c'mon mike, don't be a quitter! don't give up so easy........don't be like kennyg! :flowered:
 
#14 ·
I ate some TUNA and mahi mahi we caught it Cabo right when we got back to the docks. It wasn't iced and it had only been a couple of hours from the catch to my plate. I got scrombroid poisoning and I will never eat another TUNA that was not iced again.

Thanks for the thread Nalu. I wish I had read one similar before my experience in Cabo.
 
#18 ·
I'm baffled by folks who would invest so much time, money, effort, and safety into this amazing fishery and then treat the catch like a peanut butter and jelly sandwich.

I ice the heck outta mine for a couple of reasons.
1) Respect for the catch. I want the HIGHEST quality meat I can have. I know that when those buggers are nearly frozen when I'm fileting them, they are as good as they can be.

2) Way easier to cleanly remove the skin and filet when they are nearly frozen. The guys I fish with know that I try to get every delicate piece of these fish. Even when we are cleaning 25-35 fish.

3) Health. I give a ton of this away to friends and family. The last thing I EVER want through this is to be responsible for a loved one getting sick because I was too cheap or wanted to substitute a few extra fish for enough ice.

It's all preference. I know there are folks out there who think nothing of running down a pronghorn/deer, elk, etc., shooting it, and then feeding that meat to their family.

If folks don't want to spend the money on ice or limit their catch to what they can best care for, so be it. But I for one sure as heck don't want anything to do with those fish or those folks.

I ice the crud outta mine, even add rock salt and water to each hold. But, I'd rather take too much care than not enough.

Tight lines folks.
 
#20 ·
Feel free to feed your family catfood, mine know what good fish looks, tastes and smells like and would not eat fish that were not properly taken care of from hooking to cooking.

Scromboid efects sport caught fish the same as commercial fish and if fish smells fishy something is seriously wrong with it.
 
#21 ·
Feel free to feed your family catfood, mine know what good fish looks, tastes and smells like and would not eat fish that were not properly taken care of from hooking to cooking.

Scromboid efects sport caught fish the same as commercial fish and if fish smells fishy something is seriously wrong with it.
Thank you for giving me the green light to feed my family catfood, but I think I'll pass? Even my 'Dory' family knows what good fish look, taste and smell like and would not eat fish that were not properly taken care of from hooking to cooking. Guess our families are very similar? They are very lucky to have such knowledgable providers.
Oh, but I do bag up and freeze tuna scraps for our thee-legged cat, but only in 'zip-bags', not Vac-bags! :wink:
 
#24 ·
I'm just tired of the Government, and every other expert trying to convince me that it's their way or the highway. We are all individuals, with some major differences in boat layouts. Sorry Nalu, ya struck a cord at the wrong time. Probably my bad? :(
Nestucca, in my opinion you need to pull your feelers in a little. Nobody is telling you that your way is wrong.

Remember, some people are very new at tuna and may not have heard that improperly cooled tuna can make you very sick. They may not be carrying any ice at all.

If you find something useful in how others care for their fish, use it. If not, let it go. It wasn't meant as criticism of you or the dory fleet. :thisbig:
 
#28 ·
Nestucca, in my opinion you need to pull your feelers in a little. Nobody is telling you that your way is wrong.

Remember, some people are very new at tuna and may not have heard that improperly cooled tuna can make you very sick. They may not be carrying any ice at all.

If you find something useful in how others care for their fish, use it. If not, let it go. It wasn't meant as criticism of you or the dory fleet. :thisbig:
Guess my skin isn't as thick as some, crabbait. My feelings 'were' hurt. (and I believe justifiably) I have pulled my feelers in.
Kujo, thanks for the data you provided, it was very educational without comparing who's right or wrong.
 
#27 ·
Yes, Icing is not an option, its a requirement in my mind. Of course, I don't see anyone saying they don't ice at all. Its about the level of icing.

Fish are bled for no more than 5 minutes if possible. Sometimes we miss one in the blead barrel for a little while, I always feel bad about that one. We always do an ice brine with seawater, sometimes with rocksalt. Fish stay in that until that cooler can't hold anymore fish. Then they are packed in ice for the rest of the trip.

Chass
ct
 
#30 ·
A good sized group of us used to fish one of the over night boats from Westport. I missed the first year the trip went and heard of epic rough ocean and an insane one hour bite that put over a 100 fish on the deck in short order. That boat used a refrigerated space to hold its tuna, not a RSW system. There were several who lost large amounts of their catch because of poor cooling and poor bleeding. The next year we vowed to do it different. Skipper wouldn't let us load our own ice insisting that he had enough and wouldn't let us touch a knife because of liability. Most had their fish carked by the crew at sea and got bags of loins. He had only enough ice to cover the first layer of fish, I chose to take my fish home whole and basically got all my fish that had been on ice. I didn't loose any meat. However, several again lost large portions of their catch trying to process in time and we are talking seasoned guys, not guys like me who have only been at this a few years. Now none of us will fish on his boat.

Is ice important? I don't care what boat it is, if we are not icing fish, I will not be taking any of it home. To me ice is very important.
 
#35 ·
Nalu, you might be over-thinking this. Any angler is motivated to bring home the best quality fish because it tastes better. And since anglers are a clever lot, each fiddles with fish/ice storage on his own boat and finds a way that works for him. I have to think that the owner of a boat knows what works on his boat.

This ain't rocket science. We bonk em' and bleed em' and each fisher does his best to keep 'em cool in a way that works on the boat he's got. The happy result is a whole lot of fishers eating a whole lot of superb fish, and giving it away to friends and neighbors.
 
#37 ·
Tinman- You could be right. But in the same vein, then I would no longer share how I catch fish, care for fish, or what gear I use. If each angler knows what's best for them inherently, and nobody asks any questions, then nothing changes. Seems like that's the mode around here anymore. Too bad, 'cuz for awhile now it seems like a lot has moved forward with different techniques, and how fishing has "progressed" by sharing of information.
 
#39 · (Edited)
If you click on this link, the first picture you see is a boat circa 1946 with multiple holds full of albacore tuna, with no ice in sight. No particular need to reference history of course; take a trip tomorrow on a larger charter boat out of an Oregon port and, chances are, your tuna will not be iced.

It is very possible to harvest albacore without "10 pounds of ice per fish"--or any ice at all--and turn it into canned fish without losing any nutritive quality. The fetish with ice is a luxury of the modern era and the fat wallet. I carry plenty of ice myself because I like the loins to be firm and not mushy around the edges. Also, I like to make attractive medallions for the bbq and eat some fresh. But the fact is, if destined for the canner, ice makes precious little difference in edibility. People have taken and eaten fish of all types for eons without the use of ice.

Personally, I'm done making any value judgments about how many fish people take, how they publicize it, why they take them, or how they use them, in what for the time being is an unlimited fishery, according both to law and the plenitude of nature. And I assume that a guy who takes his share his own way will not judge those who do it differently, particularly those who fish using less resources in the form of frozen money.
Having killed many tons of Albacore back in the '50s, I felt a need to correct some assumptions. For one, those are not "holds" shown in the photo in the link posted by Baxter. Those are "bins." Bins function to prevent your deck load from sloshing around.

Normal procedure, in my time, was to let the fish cool out on deck and then we would put them down in the hold in layers of ICE. We would put fish down during lulls in the fishing or when we needed deck space or, at days end. It should be noted that we were fishing for the canneries, not fresh fish, but, icing was always an important and necessary part of caring for Albacore. Albacore quickly spoils. Much faster than other species.

It is also worth noting that scomboid poisoning, while very unpleasant, is very rarely fatal.
 
#40 ·
waaaaa Mom he's touching me!!!!!!
waaaaa Mom she's calling me names!!!!!!!
waaaaa He's looking at me!!!!!!

jeezo peezo guys! give it a rest

Sounds like a bunch of 12 year olds in the back seat of the car. I've been listening to NALU for some time, and have never seen a negative post or one that seemed to be demeaning to anyone. He has been quick to provide info to help lots of us. Why is it we feel the need to take offense so easily? Lets start assuming the best instead of the worst.
Don't make me pull this car over!!!!!!! LOL
 
#42 ·
The first time I went out for tuna, we caught just five. I didn't put them into slush, just packed them in ice. The next day they were cool, not cold to the touch. Each fish had melted the ice around it, making a little igloo. I've been slushing them since.
 
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