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Old 04-12-2011, 05:33 PM   #1
elhewman
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Default Harvey dory vs pc dory

I am looking to see what the best Dory would be for rough AK water for hand trolling commercially. I would need to load them possibly with commercial rigging and and a half tote with ice and hopefully fish.

Thanks.

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Old 04-12-2011, 06:16 PM   #2
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Default Re: Harvey dory vs pc dory

There are a bunch of other brands to consider. I think the 25-26' Crown dories are the bomb, but Chetco, Harvey, Clippercraft, and Learned are worth looking at (and I'm probably missing a few others). Did you see the cool Clippercraft that Joe posted on the other site this morning? I know, it's out of your price range, but that is one nice ride.
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Old 04-12-2011, 07:28 PM   #3
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Default Re: Harvey dory vs pc dory

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Originally Posted by elhewman View Post
I am looking to see what the best Dory would be for rough AK water for hand trolling commercially. I would need to load them possibly with commercial rigging and and a half tote with ice and hopefully fish.

Thanks.
Elhewman,

Did you write an intro story? It's a salty tradition to write a short intro about yourself.

As per your dory question, I've owned and Harvey and now own a 22 ft Learned. I REALLY like the Learned and would much prefer it to the Harvey. The Harvey is a good boat, but is much lighter and has less deck space. The Learned has a ton of space and is extremely flexible in outfitting. Just my 2 cents!
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Old 04-13-2011, 07:22 AM   #4
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Default Re: Harvey dory vs pc dory

I'd agree that IF I was shopping for a used dory, I'd opt for a Crown over a Harvey. ES Dave has had experience with both. TRUST HIM.

There is a Crown with a cuddy, I/O, tandom axle galvanized trailer & a Oregon troll permit for sale in downtown Pacific City right now for $15K. I do not know who is selling it. I'd seriously look at that boat for AK!!!!

If Nestucca gets into this he can tell you about the Crowns. That's his favorite dory.
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Old 04-13-2011, 07:38 AM   #5
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Default Re: Harvey dory vs pc dory

I'm curious where you will be surf launching the boat in AK? If you have a need to come off the beach into a break to launch her, dory makes nothing but sense. However, if you are not sliding up onto the sand, there's a few other options to consider.

Where are you using her? What is the payload in actual pounds? Are there any specific restrictions she has to fit within (beach launched, rowed in whitewater, setup with bay kit to run bays and rivers, etc)?

From there we can get very specific to your needs (I've got a couple ideas).

Also, can you provide the link to the Clippercraft? I'd be very interested to see that.

E
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Old 04-13-2011, 08:40 AM   #6
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Default Re: Harvey dory vs pc dory

Eric-
The Clippercraft is Joe Salvey's (FishHawkAdventures on Ifish). He posted it on an Alaskan commercial trolling site yesterday. I don't know if I can link to an ad on another site; here it is, but the mods might remove it: http://www.salmontrolling.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1468
You could PM Joe for more info / photos.
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Old 04-13-2011, 08:41 AM   #7
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Default Re: Harvey dory vs pc dory

Ahh yes, I'm familiar with the boat. Nice setup, esp the holds for the fish.

E
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Old 04-13-2011, 09:27 AM   #8
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Default Re: Harvey dory vs pc dory

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I'd agree that IF I was shopping for a used dory, I'd opt for a Crown over a Harvey. ES Dave has had experience with both. TRUST HIM.

There is a Crown with a cuddy, I/O, tandom axle galvanized trailer & a Oregon troll permit for sale in downtown Pacific City right now for $15K. I do not know who is selling it. I'd seriously look at that boat for AK!!!!

If Nestucca gets into this he can tell you about the Crowns. That's his favorite dory.
The cuddy cabin Crown belongs to a friend of mine. He has the boat in great shape, he's just tired of wrestling with the size of the boat while launching and loading on the beach. He hasn't had the boat out much at all over the past three years and he's since downsided to a smaller wooden dory. This is a great boat at a very good price! The boat is listed on the Oregon Coast Craigslist site.
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Old 04-13-2011, 10:15 AM   #9
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Default Re: Harvey dory vs pc dory

What part of AK? Inland passage stuff or open ocean? I have a Harvey and like it, BUT it beats the heck out of you in any chop or rough sea condition. The fact that its light weight makes it nice to beach launch and its very easy to trailer. Depending on the deck configuration and motor set up (inboard take up too much space), they have a lot of room for their size.
If it really is for open ocean and you plan to spend a lot of time on the water, I'd vote for the Crown too. They have the same issues with Inboards (limited interior space) but lots of them have been converted to outboard brackets which seem like the way to go to me.
The Plywood dories are great too. Depending on age and condition, they may require some work, but can be easily repaired to great condition, plus, they ride great and look the coolest (IMHO)!
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Old 04-13-2011, 02:56 PM   #10
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Default Re: Harvey dory vs pc dory

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Ahh yes, I'm familiar with the boat. Nice setup, esp the holds for the fish.

E
I'm extremely jealous of his fish holds. I have a tote in the middle of my dance floor with just about enough room to walk around it - not ideal for comfort, but it gets the job done.
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Old 04-13-2011, 04:50 PM   #11
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Default Re: Harvey dory vs pc dory

Sorry guys for the lack of intro there. No or few Dory's here in Sitka. So I am Am picking Oregonians brains for the best Dory advice I can get without being in one and looking one over. I am soaking in all of you info though. I basically want a less than 5000.00 operation to hand-troll with rod and reel out of Sitka AK. Most people would laugh here at that idea because 20 grand is a cheap set up for commercial boat yet alone 5 G's. But a very wise old troller here told me about the Oregon dory Fleet and said that a Dory might be an option if I wanted to fish rougher(not too rough) conditions. I will only be going 20 miles max out from town, but my 16 ft skiff wont do. My friends 19ft Bayrunner is reasonable most the time but to pricey for the lack of space. I know dorys are not comfy to ride chop in but at my budget i cannot complain. Beach launching would be a non essential and recreational thing so not that important if you think there is a better idea. My other idea is taking a sea worthy fiberglass project hull (20-26') and buying used 90-150 hp motor in good condition and and going that route. I would take more pride in a dory though. If I have to spend more money on the right boat I will but probably could not afford the hand troll permit for a while.
Choices Choices!

Just found out that my uncle in law is the co-founder of the Pacific City Dory- man Club. I would ask him to find me a good deal but not sure How committed I am yet just in research stage. Don't want to look flakey to such a nice guy.

Thanks for all of your input guys. Really helping me out.
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Old 04-13-2011, 06:55 PM   #12
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Default Re: Harvey dory vs pc dory

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Originally Posted by Eric S View Post
I'm curious where you will be surf launching the boat in AK? If you have a need to come off the beach into a break to launch her, dory makes nothing but sense. However, if you are not sliding up onto the sand, there's a few other options to consider.
My old man and I went on a charter halibut trip out of Nanilchik years back - they launched our 28 foot deep V alum boat off the beach using a John Deer tractor - they hooked the trailer up to the tractor from the truck, loaded everyone aboard, and chucked us right out into the surf (I think the captain was also gunning the throttle in reverse by the time the prop hit the water... he was a lil crazy)

Was mucho fun.
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Old 04-13-2011, 07:30 PM   #13
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Default Re: Harvey dory vs pc dory

Me personally (and I'm heavily biased), I'd be looking for a Clippercraft with a bit of deadrise instead of a true surf dory. If you don't need the flat bottom, why sacrifice the time to get to the grounds, you can gain a couple extra knots with a shallow V.

Tolman skiffs are available up there from time to time, or you can build one for yourself. Those are built for your area, used commercially in that fishery, and are a bulletproof design.

E
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Old 04-13-2011, 08:38 PM   #14
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Default Re: Harvey dory vs pc dory

I have very little experience with Harvey or Crown dories, so I can be of limited help on this question, but here is what I know.

I have a 22 foot Learned dory, and I have run with other dories as wingmen on tuna trips. Specifically I have run with Harveys, Hunkys, and a couple of other lesser-known dory types. I find the Learned is generally a bit faster than the others. What I mean is my Learned can run faster in a chop without beating up the occupants. Often I have to slow down so the other dories can keep up. Furthermore, I've run with 20 foot Learneds, and had the same experience.

For whatever reason, the 22 foot Learned can run a bit faster than the others in real-live ocean conditions. It might be the extra thick bottom, consisting of two layers of 3/8 plywood with almost 1/4 inch of chopper gun glass. That makes the bottom nearly 1 inch thick.
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Old 04-13-2011, 09:13 PM   #15
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Default Re: Harvey dory vs pc dory

A $5k budget might be tough, but there are some amazing deals on dories if you keep your eye on craigslist. For instance, there is a 21' custom dory on Portland CL in Molalla right now for $3500 that looks decent from what I can tell, and I saw several others over this past winter that looked interesting. The hard part is that safety gear, electronics, and rigging add up quickly. The purchase price of the boat is just the starting point unless it comes really well set up.
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Old 04-13-2011, 09:42 PM   #16
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Default Re: Harvey dory vs pc dory

You are right I don't need the flat bottom and time is of the essence during openings.Maybe I will be patient and wait for a Tolman skiff. Learned Dorys sound nice enough as well. Clipper crafts are to spendy for but maybe in the future.

Thanks Guys Its good to hear things that take me back to reality.
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Old 04-13-2011, 09:49 PM   #17
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Default Re: Harvey dory vs pc dory

Here is a link to that Clipper Craft that was mentioned. http://www.ifish.net/board/showthread.php?t=355712

I am partial to the wood boats with glass on top, as opposed to a harvey, In my opionion the Harveys are too light and there is not enough mass to hold against the waves, I like the more solid feel of a wood boat.

I feel the wood boats are far easier to repair then the Harveys, I have seen alot of Harveys have the floors rot out.
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Old 04-14-2011, 10:38 AM   #18
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Default Re: Harvey dory vs pc dory

There's a Clippercraft 20', semi-v hulled open boat on CL down here right now for $3500. It has a small block ford V-8 and a hamilton pump on it. If you are interested I can dig up the info for you, I've contacted the guy and was interested in it but couldn't put the cash together.

E
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Old 04-14-2011, 01:56 PM   #19
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Default Re: Harvey dory vs pc dory

Eric,

pm sent

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Quote:
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There's a Clippercraft 20', semi-v hulled open boat on CL down here right now for $3500. It has a small block ford V-8 and a hamilton pump on it. If you are interested I can dig up the info for you, I've contacted the guy and was interested in it but couldn't put the cash together.

E
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Old 04-14-2011, 03:23 PM   #20
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Default Re: Harvey dory vs pc dory

How much outboard would it need? Not sure I like inboards or i/o but seriously it sounds like a boat for me otherwise. Will check more into it. Actually just found a 1550.00 hull with a newer Suzuki kicker and a temperamental 2001 200hp evinrude ram injection ram(crap i Know) a. The 24 ft hull reminds me of a skiff that accompanies yachts but was use to hand troll is in excellent shape. The fiberglass is strong and thick. I forgot the name of the boat boat after examining many cheaper fiberglass boats I do believe the hull is the real deal. Hope to send pictures soon. Many used 200 hps for under 3000.00 grand out there but very scary to buy without lots of info from certified mechanics. Not so sure how much it is to place such a heavy motor on the outboard bracket but will check on that.
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Old 04-14-2011, 04:42 PM   #21
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Default Re: Harvey dory vs pc dory

Thanks for the PM O.

That Clipper wouldn't need an outboard, it has a hamilton pump. It will get you in skinny water and has no parts that will cut your gear off. I'd have to contact him personally as his ad is gone.

E
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Old 04-14-2011, 05:06 PM   #22
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Default Re: Harvey dory vs pc dory

The boat I was looking at is a 24ft Stamas with cuddy cabin removed and two nice outboard brackets and a newer fours stroke 9.9 kicker. As a last resort and a good find on a newer used motor, maybe...for a grand. But I am still into the idea of a Tolman or clipper craft.
May parents are in Oregon so perhaps they could store a boat for a while and I could make a vacation out of shipping it home. Otherwise I hope to find something more close to home. Patience is the key. Thanks again and I do have some interest in the 20'clippercraft.

Last edited by elhewman; 04-14-2011 at 10:54 PM.
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Old 04-14-2011, 05:15 PM   #23
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Default Re: Harvey dory vs pc dory

Where are you finding decent used 4-stroke outboard main motors for under $5k? Just curious...
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Old 04-14-2011, 06:44 PM   #24
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Default Re: Harvey dory vs pc dory

I just contacted the owner, I'll let you know if I hear anything.

I also know of a 23 footer that's open with a cuddy forward near that price range. I contacted that owner as well on your behalf.

Yes, I know the whereabouts of several clippers in the area....

E
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Old 04-14-2011, 10:52 PM   #25
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Default Re: Harvey dory vs pc dory

The many charter boat operators here ditch there outboards after a few years of use, and they pop up in the local classifieds once and a while, or through word of mouth. Thanks for checking into the clipper crafts seem like an amazing boat if they are in reasonable shape!

Last edited by elhewman; 04-14-2011 at 10:55 PM.
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Old 04-15-2011, 06:58 AM   #26
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Default Re: Harvey dory vs pc dory

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Thanks for the PM O.

That Clipper wouldn't need an outboard, it has a hamilton pump. It will get you in skinny water and has no parts that will cut your gear off. I'd have to contact him personally as his ad is gone.

E
There was a number of PC dorymen that tried the Hamilton pumps here...There MAY be one left, ( I haven't seen it out in several years).

With a dory being flat bottomed, when you pulled one side of your commercial rigging, the boat would skid to the opposite direction even with the helm clear over. The pumps also had very limited steerage at low speeds. That is important here so you can wait/idle in the surf for the wave to break and still keep the bow into the waves.
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Old 04-15-2011, 12:11 PM   #27
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Default Re: Harvey dory vs pc dory

Thanks for the info an hamilton pumps and the clipper crafts. I am slowly but surly learning the attributes and shortcomings of each boat. Even for a great price there are a few shortcomings I wouldn't want to deal with. As of right now The best boats for me seem to be crown dory's and tolman skiffs. In the price ranges I am seeing though A whole league of boats would be open to me.
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Old 04-15-2011, 04:52 PM   #28
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Default Re: Harvey dory vs pc dory

Quote:
Originally Posted by elhewman View Post
I am looking to see what the best Dory would be for rough AK water for hand trolling commercially. I would need to load them possibly with commercial rigging and and a half tote with ice and hopefully fish..
We ran a 20' Harvey Dory for a couple seasons in Katchemak Bay and occasionaly out of Resurrection Bay.

It had a bit of a cuddy that provided a storage area which for us was handy but if you are working with it there was defintely not enough open deck space for your purposes. You would want a bigger model than the 20'. On the plus side though you could run in and slide up on a beach but I am sure you could do that with other dory style skiffs just as well.

On a nice day it was great. However, like any flat bottom boat it would break your teeth on a rough day. Also (and I would suspect this happens to all similar flatbottom boats) If you're crossing over waves, especially on following seas, when you dropped onto the back side it had a tendency to grab a chine and careen wildly to one side or other. This was worst if you tried to cross a wave squarely.. because you can't ever cross square. So I learned to always cross over and make an intentional exagorated angle to force one chine or the other to dig in and that way I not only knew which way it would dive but also use it to our best advantage.
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