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Old 10-22-2011, 03:31 PM   #1
300wbymann
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Default sabots vs. powerbelt question

1. I ALREADY KNOW THEY ARE NOT LEGAL IN OREGON AND HAVE NO PLANS ON USING THEM HERE.
just a question for the muzzy guys.
first, are they the same thing? is a power belt considered a sabot?
does the base come off of a powerbelt?
whats a more accurate bullet of the 2?

1 more question- do think it's possible to shoot 200 yards WITH OPEN SIGHTS? (no scope at all) i think i know the answers, but me and a buddy have 2 different ideas on them-- so what do you think? mainly on if they are both the same thing--sabots? thanks-

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Old 10-22-2011, 03:52 PM   #2
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Default Re: sabots vs. powerbelt question

Power belt is not a sabot,but it does have a synthetic base.
A sabot is a the plastic wad cup etc. with a smaller caliber bullet,ie. a .50 cal sabot can have a .44 or .45 cal bullet in it.
accuracy you might get better groups with a more aero tip type bullet in a sabot.
I have used the power belts and accuracy was fine.
A sabot load will give you more velocity and range,but energy can drop off.
The power belts i used were all lead and hollow points.
Sabots would be fine for deer but i would rather use a full size bullet for elk,if ya have a .50 caliber use a .50 cal. hunk of lead.
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Old 10-22-2011, 05:19 PM   #3
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Default Re: sabots vs. powerbelt question

so just because they both have plastic to get a better fit to the barrel, doesn't make them both a "sabot", right?
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Old 10-22-2011, 06:17 PM   #4
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Default Re: sabots vs. powerbelt question

Quote:
Originally Posted by 300wbymann View Post
so just because they both have plastic to get a better fit to the barrel, doesn't make them both a "sabot", right?
The plastic base on the PB does seal the barrel,but the sabot allows for a smaller caliber projectile to gain vel. and range .









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Old 10-22-2011, 10:49 PM   #5
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Default Re: sabots vs. powerbelt question

Quote:
Originally Posted by 300wbymann View Post
1. I ALREADY KNOW THEY ARE NOT LEGAL IN OREGON AND HAVE NO PLANS ON USING THEM HERE.
just a question for the muzzy guys.
first, are they the same thing? is a power belt considered a sabot?
does the base come off of a powerbelt?
whats a more accurate bullet of the 2?

1 more question- do think it's possible to shoot 200 yards WITH OPEN SIGHTS? (no scope at all) i think i know the answers, but me and a buddy have 2 different ideas on them-- so what do you think? mainly on if they are both the same thing--sabots? thanks-
Cathunters explanation is spot on. As far as accuracy goes theres not much difference, but sabots are real pain going down the barrel compared to power belts. I have spent a lot of time playing with almost every kind of bullet and powder combo out there in 50 cal. Myself I settled on 110 grains of pyrodex select and 295 gr. lead power belt. As far as 200 yards goes with open sights goes, not a problem! Put your bench time in and clean between every shot. My gun is 5.5 inches high at 100 yd's at 200 yd's I'm 12-14" low. You need to shoot at 50 and 150 yards to know your weapon as well. I have taken 6 deer at 150 yards plus with open sights and 194 a yards being the longest taken. To make live easier on you sighting in, I use 4' x 8' sheet of plywood with butcher paper stapled to it. Then take a coffee can and with the bottom cut out and spray paint about 4 black circles about 20" apart dead center in a vertical line. Now when shooting do not aim for the center of circle, aim at the very bottom of the circle. Your groups will be much tighter then aiming at the center as you will not be floating all over. One word of advice don't waist your time with tripple seven powder we have not found 1 of 8 plus guns it will shoot accurate in, groups are all over the map. American pioneer ffg is almost as accurate as pyrodex but does clean up easier. I hope this saves everyone some time on the range as I have a untold hours of practice in.
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Old 10-23-2011, 08:41 AM   #6
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Default Re: sabots vs. powerbelt question

thats great info- thanks guys.

anyone else? does anyone see any reason why they would be considered the SAME THING? ( for the record, i'm in 100% agreement)


and has anyone had any experiance using blackhorn 209 powder? is it true you can shoot 20+ times without cleaning your barrel?
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Old 10-24-2011, 06:50 AM   #7
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Default Re: sabots vs. powerbelt question

or about the "no excuses" bullets?
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Old 10-24-2011, 08:25 AM   #8
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Default Re: sabots vs. powerbelt question

If these bullets would be used in Oregon you will not be able to use a jacketed bullet,sabot or PB,so what is usually availiable are round balls or conicals,the common conicals ate T/C and Hornady,T/C has maxi-balls and maxi-hunter one is for deer and the other is recommeneded for elk size animals (Per T/C type of material used to construct bullet)Each bullet has at least 2 different grain choices in 50cal.I recall the person i spoke to at Thompson said the elk bullet was a harder alloys to allow for more penetration and a more controlled exspansion.
The hornady bullets are Great Plains and are Swaged they also have a few different bullet grain choices.My Knight Master Disc. shoots the Great Plains 385 gr. really well it has a matchgrade barrel and shoots the T/C bullets just fine.I also have two knight Bighorns ,26" barrels and they shoot 2" groups at 100yds.with the T/C's,they were the 320 gr.maxi balls.
Both bullets are prelubed,the T/C is more noticeable with the yellow butter bore type lube and the Hornady is more of a light white lube,they each load a little different in a clean barrel for a fair comparison.
I was using t7 and had good results,even in cold weather using a m11 cap,no accruacy problems and not to much fouling,i swab in between shots,Never tried any other powders other than pyrodex.2" groups @100YRD.s with an open sight BP rifle is fine for me,if other powders would tighten those groups up i would change,just takes buying and trying powders and lots of time,shooting and cleaning.
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Old 10-24-2011, 10:08 AM   #9
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Default Re: sabots vs. powerbelt question

Quote:
Originally Posted by 300wbymann View Post
1. I ALREADY KNOW THEY ARE NOT LEGAL IN OREGON AND HAVE NO PLANS ON USING THEM HERE.
just a question for the muzzy guys.
first, are they the same thing? is a power belt considered a sabot?
does the base come off of a powerbelt?
whats a more accurate bullet of the 2?

1 more question- do think it's possible to shoot 200 yards WITH OPEN SIGHTS? (no scope at all) i think i know the answers, but me and a buddy have 2 different ideas on them-- so what do you think? mainly on if they are both the same thing--sabots? thanks-
My opinion.... No they arent the same. I dont consider it a sabot, more of a gas seal/wad. But they both use plastic as a gas seal.
Yes the base comes off, though I'm not sure when. Never seen one in an animal, but dont remeber finding them 30 feet down the range like I do the sabots though.....

In my experience the sabots can be more accurate. Powerbelts fit loose in the barrel and depend on set back and expansion to seal them up and engage the rifleing. I think this adds a bit of variabillity. Also they arent much for being streamlined. They are pretty short and fat with a flat base.

Yes, with the right load and the right set of eyes, 200 yards is plenty doable with open sights. Peep sight might be a better choice. I practice to 200 with fiberoptic opens and hunt to 150 with them.

How many times you can shoot before cleaning is as much rifle/bullet dependant as it is powder dependant. Also as the barrel fouls velocity and pressure increase and accuracy tends to go out the door. If you shoot a greased patched round ball it will clean the barel as you load it, more or less, so you can often shoot many shots. Powerbelts fit so loose you could fit them down a dirty barrel easily. Sabots often fit tight and dont like to go down dirty barrels.

Powerbelts because they fit so loose dont provide much of a moisture seal in your barrel, a tight fitting sabot seals quite well in the right barrel. Just something to think about.

I dont like the Powerbelts terminal performance. I havent tried the jacketed ones though. The all lead versions more or less blow up and turn into a flat pancake. Penetration never was all that good, although the one guy in our party that uses them manages to kill elk just fine. No nice mushrooms collected under the far hide though.

My opinion on the best bullets/powder available for the 50 cal.

Tripple 7 (777) is my hands down vote. I've tried pretty well all of them.

My favorite bullet was the Buffalo Bullets SSB (special saboted bullet). It was 375 grain, hollow point, boat tail, in a quality MMP sabot. They are discontinued now.

All sabots arent created equall.

My next favorite bullet is the 360 grain Extreme Elite HPBT. Thier plastic tipped version in 340 grain aint bad either. Both are as accurate as the SSB was, just a bit lighter. I like the bigger bullets for elk.
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