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Old 05-20-2009, 10:58 AM   #1
KillerBeee
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Default North River OS 26

Hey Dogs,
A good friend of mine has purchased one of the North River OS 26 boats from the auction in Seattle. The boat is unrigged and I think first on his list is power.
He is thinking of twin 225 Yamahas. He had a question regarding Clemens Marina as they had a fair quote for the package and install.
Any input regarding these folks? I found only positive remarks on a search of Ifish on them.
Thanks,
Dave Beeeee

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Old 05-20-2009, 11:02 AM   #2
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Default Re: Nr os 26

Cant say anything about Clemens, but Allen Marine in Salem has treated some folks I know very well on a few motor orders. Prices were better than others also.
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Old 05-20-2009, 11:09 AM   #3
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Default Re: Nr os 26

the 225 Yami is getting pretty long in the tooth..epa cert'd at just 217 HP, it is not the pick of the litter, the lack of digital shift and throttle is also not market leading. Aft station w twins will drive you to a whopping 12 Cables....
no kicker and you are going to want the aft station for backtrolling..

Yamaha are U awake?????

However...

a single Yami 350 with the updated balancer and digital ctls with a T8 or T9.9 would be my choice. The twin bracket is a plus w extra floation for the big V8

A single Zuke 300 will also outperform 2 X 150's in most if not all respects, save near the dock
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Old 05-20-2009, 11:14 AM   #4
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Default Re: Nr os 26

# 1 - I think twin 225's are a little overkill for a 26' O/S. I have a 24' with one 250 yami and thats plenty. Good economy and faster than I need in the ocean. I know plenty of people with a 26' O/S and twin 150's and they do quite well. Besides the extra cost up front of a 225 over a 150 you also now have the fuel consumption , and thats a lot more wieght back there for the length of the boat.

#2 - Everyone has there own opinion on who they will deal with and it has been my experience that the only person I would deal with in Eugene is Maxum Marine. Lloyd has been very honest and givin me great deals on service. My second would be the "Y" in coos bay but thats a ways to go. Good luck to your friend.

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Old 05-20-2009, 11:15 AM   #5
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Default Re: Nr os 26

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomictime View Post
the 225 Yami is getting pretty long in the tooth..epa cert'd at just 217 HP, it is not the pick of the litter, the lack of digital shift and throttle is also not market leading. Aft station w twins will drive you to a whopping 12 Cables....
no kicker and you are going to want the aft station for backtrolling..

Yamaha are U awake?????

However...

a single Yami 350 with the updated balancer and digital ctls with a T8 or T9.9 would be my choice. The twin bracket is a plus w extra floation for the big V8

A single Zuke 300 will also outperform 2 X 150's in most if not all respects, save near the dock

That works too.
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Old 05-20-2009, 11:21 AM   #6
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Default Re: Nr os 26

Call Allan Marine in Salem, go with two 150HP Honda's, they really sip the fuel.
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Old 05-20-2009, 11:23 AM   #7
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Default Re: Nr os 26

I purchased my boat/motor package from Clemens at their Gladstone store. Nothing bad to say about them. The rigging of the moters, F250 and T8 were clean.

I agree with Tomic, that word on the street is the 225 is a little light on power. The new F250B weighs the same, and has the new fly by wire shifter, and is a breeze to add a second station to.

Depending on what bracket that OS came with, I'd go twin 150's and a T8 or the 350 and a T8..
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Old 05-20-2009, 12:08 PM   #8
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Default Re: North River OS 26

Twin V6 motors would be too much for me plus if you have a 102" boat that leaves very little room for a kicker. I have twin 150s and they work great. Plenty of power.
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Old 05-20-2009, 12:13 PM   #9
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Default Re: North River OS 26

Have a friend that has the same boat and put a 350 Yami on it with the TR-1 on the trolling motor and loves it. I will give him a call and have him PM you. Has some things I am sure you would like to hear. Nothing bad but little details that will help you.
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Old 05-20-2009, 12:52 PM   #10
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Default Re: North River OS 26

I might know where there is a pair of Zuke 175s
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Old 05-20-2009, 01:30 PM   #11
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Default Re: North River OS 26

Thanks for the replies. I have my buddy keeping an eye on this thread as he isn't a member here but is a true Salty Dog.
Dave Beeeeeeeeee
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Old 05-20-2009, 01:46 PM   #12
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Default Re: North River OS 26

Dave, I don't know why anyone would go with cables if FBW was an option. Either the Yamaha (300 or 350) or Suzuki 300HP, or even the Verado 300HP, would be a good choices. The Yami is a lump at 800#, the Suzi is 600#, while the Merc is 634#. Twin Yamaha 225's would be more than 1100#!!!

Go with a wireless remote AP and you wouldn't need an aft station. Even if you wanted one, the FBW makes it a lot cleaner. And, your cost should be less. I wish the FBW filtered down the HP range. I'm sure it's coming, and probably soon.

With a smooth running V6 (or I6) and precision throttle control, you might be able to ditch the kicker, too. I would.
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Old 05-20-2009, 02:01 PM   #13
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Default Re: North River OS 26

I have a 26' with twin 150s. It's all the power I ever need, even with four guys and a load of deer. The reality is there aren't that many days on the ocean that you really need to cruise north of 30 knots. Those engines have been bulletproof but it's always nice to have twins when you're 60 miles out.
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Old 05-20-2009, 02:37 PM   #14
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Default Re: North River OS 26

the guys are clemens are good people. I'd done work with them for a number of years. They should do a great job for you.
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Old 05-20-2009, 07:21 PM   #15
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Default Re: North River OS 26

Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBeee View Post
Hey Dogs,
A good friend of mine has purchased one of the North River OS 26 boats from the auction in Seattle. The boat is unrigged and I think first on his list is power.
He is thinking of twin 225 Yamahas. He had a question regarding Clemens Marina as they had a fair quote for the package and install.
Any input regarding these folks? I found only positive remarks on a search of Ifish on them.
Thanks,
Dave Beeeee
I have a os 28' and twin 150's and 20 hp kicker all yami's can run in at 30 + and thats fast enough for me. 2nd the thought about two motors.
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Old 05-20-2009, 07:41 PM   #16
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Default Re: North River OS 26

I have a 26 OS 9'6" beam, twin 150 Yamahas. Full of fuel and gear, iceboxes with ice and 5 guys it does 43 mph opened up. Cruises beautifully at 32 mph. Having twins is a blessing. Trolls great with the 150's and have a 9.9 Yamaha.

I went round and round about power, talked to a friend in North Vancouver BC who is a Yamaha dealer. He told me not to put 225's on my boat as they are a old technology motor. If your going for the extra weight of the 6 cyl. the only motor to put on is the 250 hp. I love the narrowness of the 150's and not all that extra weight of the 6 cyl. hanging on the back of my boat. Each to their own, I'd put the 150's on again.

Dave
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Old 05-20-2009, 08:14 PM   #17
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Default Re: North River OS 26

Twin Merc L4 200 Verados with wireless throttle and power steering drive like a dream!
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Old 05-20-2009, 08:15 PM   #18
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Default Re: North River OS 26

..only U would know...


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Twin Merc L4 200 Verados with wireless throttle and power steering drive like a dream!
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Old 05-20-2009, 10:06 PM   #19
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Default Re: North River OS 26

Hey you guys,
This discussion is exactly what he is looking for. Stir up the pot and tell it like you feel it.
I personally like the idea of twin 150's or maybe something like Tracker's 175 E-tecs. FBW throttle seems to make a lot of sense to me too except I'm a Volvo tech and their electronic throttles leave a lot to be desired as far as durability. Perhaps the marine applications are much better. I hope they're not Made in Italy like the Volvos.
Good thing is, I'm not the one looking to drop 30k on some new motors...
Thanks for the views,
Beeeeeee
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Old 05-20-2009, 10:38 PM   #20
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Default Re: Nr os 26

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomictime View Post
the 225 Yami is getting pretty long in the tooth..epa cert'd at just 217 HP, it is not the pick of the litter, the lack of digital shift and throttle is also not market leading. Aft station w twins will drive you to a whopping 12 Cables....
no kicker and you are going to want the aft station for backtrolling..

Yamaha are U awake?????

However...

a single Yami 350 with the updated balancer and digital ctls with a T8 or T9.9 would be my choice. The twin bracket is a plus w extra floation for the big V8

A single Zuke 300 will also outperform 2 X 150's in most if not all respects, save near the dock

Mark
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Old 05-21-2009, 05:07 AM   #21
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Default Re: North River OS 26

Ok I held off long enough! Dont settle for just enough power! Get just a bit more than enough! Twins is a no brainer. Fly by wire would be a great bonus, if it will will hold up like Beeeeee says. The tourque of the Etecs can get you on plane easier than a 4 stoke and the weight is less. Safety is higher with twins. Yes yes all modern outboards are reliable but two modern outboards are even more reliable! Common sense. Double the maintenience and the cost! Believe me that does not matter when you kick those ponies in the butt and the boat jumps out of the water. Would like to know what the weight of an OS is?
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Old 05-21-2009, 07:58 AM   #22
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Default Re: North River OS 26

I would not buy a boat plug from Clemens. They ripped me off several times, I had enough. I can give you one of my fishing buddies phone number, ask him how much he got ripped off, many thousands. I would highly recommend Maxxum Marine in Eugene, OR. Lloyd and Stacy and staff are excellent to deal with. They are HONEST, excellent engineers and fabricators, tremendous knowledge of the boating industry, and just plain real people. They have a complete shop and sales facility and are Suzuki, (my choice), and Yamaha certified. I run a Suzuki 300 hp outboard and absolutely love it. Over the years I have dealt with all the shops in Eugene, and got ripped off. Then they opened years ago, and I tried them and knew right away that they honest.

I have fished the ocean 37 years, and continue to do so. If you pm me I would be glad to talk to you.
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Old 05-21-2009, 08:56 AM   #23
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Question Re: North River OS 26

Quote:
Originally Posted by kodiakmike View Post
I have a 26' with twin 150s. It's all the power I ever need, even with four guys and a load of deer. The reality is there aren't that many days on the ocean that you really need to cruise north of 30 knots. Those engines have been bulletproof but it's always nice to have twins when you're 60 miles out.
Mike,

I am curious, will your boat get on a plane with only one engine?

Thanks.

WD.
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Old 05-21-2009, 04:46 PM   #24
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Default Re: North River OS 26

My 24' Maxxum has a 250 Zuke....wish it was a 300. Runs like a champ, quiet, good on gas. What more do you need? Call Tony at Maxxum Marine in Eugene...He'll give you a fair price. <Non Sponsor contact info removed>. Please send me a PM for contact info.
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Old 05-21-2009, 05:04 PM   #25
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Default Re: North River OS 26

Twin 150's are plenty on that hull. three rivers marine in woodenville
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Old 05-21-2009, 05:19 PM   #26
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Default Re: North River OS 26

To begin with twin 225's were mentioned. I do not believe just fine will be what he was thinking of. He wants to hit the gas and go "Wow!" Not be at full throttle thinking, "man I wish I had gone bigger!" 300 hp minimum in a single or 175"s at least in doubles! That way not regrets later!
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Old 05-21-2009, 07:23 PM   #27
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Default Re: North River OS 26

we really have beat this topic to death over the years..have your bud do a few searches and it will turn up quite a bit. There are two camps, maybe three if you include the kicker-less heretic Paddler, but it seems his cult is small so far, only the towing companies are rooting for him (sorry Jon, you know my vices..ha)..

twins vs. a BIG single....

Oil burner vs a modern engine.

Very seldom do any of us switch camps...but it has been known to happen, pigs fly and there will be a TR-1 on my tub again soon..

in general it comes down to this:

Twins are actually statistically more likely to give you a problem, the issue is can you still get home and how fast? Most singles in a twin pair will not plane the boat. They win at the dock, they may win at top speed, but not always as you have drag for two lower units. You also have 2X the maintenence. You can - if you like chewing up an expensive motor with lots of hours use one of the singles to troll and or backtroll. I put over 300 hours a year on my kicker...
there is of course the "cool" factor....I guess it's the difference between wanting a car that can go around corners and go fast vs having a blower sticking out thru the hood. Your choice, if you need cool.

The downside of the big single argument is you do not have as many choices. All have been mentioned. And there is a finite limit to the big single argument...350 HP is the current max. Need to do more work that , you need twins..or some would say get a real boat with an IB Diesel (not an I/O)...the big single requires a kicker and a kicker will not always get you to tuna speed, so you may put some hours on the big mo.

i will leave the oil burner vs 4-stroke issue for later..I am tired....again....
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Old 05-21-2009, 07:31 PM   #28
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Default Re: North River OS 26

No input on Yami 225's but I do have input on Clemens in Eugene. I bought my last boat there and would never go back. Once you are out the door, they loose interest. Service was poor, no appointments, delays everytime, and they never seem to have what is needed. The exact opposite with Allen Marine in Salem, good pricing and great service. These are my experiences!
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Old 05-21-2009, 08:34 PM   #29
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Default Re: North River OS 26

I have never heard of an airline pilot wishing he had only one engine when one of his twin engine fails and he has to land the aircraft with the GOOD engine. Sorry Tomic, couldn't resist!! yeh, the older Army helicopters had single engines, but the Navy and Marines always use twins. The newer Army helicopters now use twin engines. Go figure!!
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Old 05-21-2009, 09:23 PM   #30
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Old 05-21-2009, 10:05 PM   #31
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Default Re: North River OS 26

While we debate, he's up at Neah Bay catching halibut. He asked me to put up a post so I did and I thank you all for your thoughts and consideration.
When a choice is made I'll be sure to let everyone know.
Good fishing!
Beeee
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Old 05-21-2009, 10:12 PM   #32
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Default Re: North River OS 26

Had a 26 OS with twin F150's and a T8. Perfect power match!
If memory serves . . . . . . .
3000rpm fully on plane = 17 knots (mph is for land-lubbers!)
4000rpm max range cruise = 25 kts (fully loaded)
5000rpm fastest practical speed = 33 kts (on light chop)
6000rpm WOT = 40 kts (went that fast only twice)
both on early mornings, glassy smooth water
T-8 great for salmon trolling and tending crab/shrimp pots
(6 kts max in the Sound)
Single F150 trolling in ocean swells: Idle 600rpm = 4 kts / 1500rpm = 8 kts
Twin F150's trolling in ocean swells: Idle 600rpm = 6 kts / 1000rpm = 8 kts
120 gallons of fuel can take you to the edge of the earth, AND BACK, with a reserve.

Don't want to get into an argument about BIG single -VS- medium twins.
And the twin NR bracket does offer extra bouyancy to support an F350.
But, what are you gonna do with the extra 5" hole NR already cut through the transom for the rigging?
Or the eight 0.5" holes where the twin motor mounts are supposed to go?

Great Boat! Dave.
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Old 05-22-2009, 07:21 AM   #33
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Default Re: North River OS 26

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomictime View Post
..or some would say get a real boat with an IB Diesel (not an I/O)....
Funny you should mention the I/O diesel option, as 26' is where they begin to make sense. I looked at the Steyr's the other day. I think that's what Baxter put in his Bartender, and he's happy wth it thus far.

Tracker, I saw a 255HP Sea Doo the other day. It was a three seater, with a towing pylon. I think you could mount rod holders on it.
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Old 05-22-2009, 07:25 AM   #34
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Default Re: North River OS 26

weld...it is after all a welded boat


Quote:
Originally Posted by PugtSounDav View Post
Had a 26 OS with twin F150's and a T8. Perfect power match!
If memory serves . . . . . . .
3000rpm fully on plane = 17 knots (mph is for land-lubbers!)
4000rpm max range cruise = 25 kts (fully loaded)
5000rpm fastest practical speed = 33 kts (on light chop)
6000rpm WOT = 40 kts (went that fast only twice)
both on early mornings, glassy smooth water
T-8 great for salmon trolling and tending crab/shrimp pots
(6 kts max in the Sound)
Single F150 trolling in ocean swells: Idle 600rpm = 4 kts / 1500rpm = 8 kts
Twin F150's trolling in ocean swells: Idle 600rpm = 6 kts / 1000rpm = 8 kts
120 gallons of fuel can take you to the edge of the earth, AND BACK, with a reserve.

Don't want to get into an argument about BIG single -VS- medium twins.
And the twin NR bracket does offer extra bouyancy to support an F350.
But, what are you gonna do with the extra 5" hole NR already cut through the transom for the rigging?
Or the eight 0.5" holes where the twin motor mounts are supposed to go?

Great Boat! Dave.
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Old 05-22-2009, 07:27 AM   #35
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Default Re: North River OS 26

my solution is to have twins, one of them is a kicker....
re-read my post, i choose my words..VERY carefull, the only issue is HOW FAST you get home.
Find me a prudently powered twin that can plane combat loaded on one engine in rough water and do it from 60 miles out and I will recant...



Quote:
Originally Posted by OuterLimits View Post
I have never heard of an airline pilot wishing he had only one engine when one of his twin engine fails and he has to land the aircraft with the GOOD engine. Sorry Tomic, couldn't resist!! yeh, the older Army helicopters had single engines, but the Navy and Marines always use twins. The newer Army helicopters now use twin engines. Go figure!!
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Old 05-22-2009, 08:04 AM   #36
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Default Re: North River OS 26

Quote:
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my solution is to have twins, one of them is a kicker....
re-read my post, i choose my words..VERY carefull, the only issue is HOW FAST you get home.
Find me a prudently powered twin that can plane combat loaded on one engine in rough water and do it from 60 miles out and I will recant...
Tomic- For the most part I would concur with your assessment. Of course I believe in full size twins, but that also has to do with where I spend the majority of my time fishing. If the bulk of my fishing was in the Puget Sound, or areas that I did not have to cross bars or shoot small entrances to port, I may have a different opinion. If I had a boat that would handle a single, that might make a difference too.

The only thing I did not see you address with your argument of twin mains versus a single and a kicker is what happens when you lose a motor in poor weather, or have to cross an ebbing bar.

If it is all about just getting home, for the most part a kicker will do it. I certainly don't have any issue with boats that have a single main and a kicker. Small boat, and just a single main with no kicker. Well, you must be land locked most of the year.......

BUT.... Where a kicker becomes only marginally effective is when the wind and weather comes up. There are MANY tuna days where coming home from 40 miles offshore a kicker is going to be very marginal at best, and almost useless at best. Crossing the bar in Garibaldi on kicker only, versus the thrust and torque of one main is a huge difference. Hitting the hole in Depoe on one main is sketchy enough (and I've done it several times). We have a great example of a 25 OTC entry (inboard) that lost their engine during the OTC Hammond event and couldn't make it against the ebb out of the CR on their kicker.

Flat water, nice seas, a kicker will get you home just fine. I've come in from 25 miles out on a kicker, and from 40 miles out on one main. A good portion of the time it's not going to matter, but here's a Nalu'ism for you. When it does matter, it DOES matter.

40 miles offshore, swell increasing from 4 to 7, wind picking up and going from 10-15 to 25-30. Do you want a kicker, or a 2nd main pushing you home?
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Old 05-22-2009, 08:38 AM   #37
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Default Re: North River OS 26

excellent points Mike the value is the debate and the deeper understanding of the tradeoffs. heres a Tomicism for you: there is no free lunch
hull speed is hull speed, so a 25 HP, my first kicker on my 24 was a 25 2-stroke will do just fine.
while I do not often shoot the hole, I am frequently 60 miles from anything, I also have come in from the high 20's out on the T8 and farther w the 25.
I think outerlimits made 150 % the right choice, his builder is captured by the engine mfr - he had no brand choice and bought the best twins they make. A single big merc might cause me to recant ...ha, !

finally with 5-7 building and on a single..maybe any single kicker or no, with no alternate power...i might ask the CG to help me thru the hole - they live there after all. The prudent mariner asks for help.
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Old 05-22-2009, 10:39 AM   #38
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Default Re: North River OS 26

I give a good word on the 26' OS with twin Yamaha 150's and a T8. The commandlink fuel data is just dead on. If it says I've used 132 gallons I pretty much end up pumping that much. They did it right. You can also bridge the commandlink fuel/engine/rpm data to nmea 2000 fairly easily (as you can with other engine vendors often)

I can say with twin 150's, a T8 and a 170 gallon tank full it only takes a couple guys in the rear to have some water coming through the scuppers. not a big deal but perhaps it could be more of a problem with bigger twins. It makes for interesting reactions from guests -- "we're sinking!!!".

When the tank gets low the boat gets quite light and the wind does a real number at the docks. It's good to have the twins and a backup "weather" slip.
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Old 05-22-2009, 10:54 AM   #39
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Default Re: North River OS 26

Further info to consider.
Sounds like the boat has a 130 gal tank.
This guy spends as much time offshore as possible and the sound only when forced to do so.
A big reason to have more power vs. less for him is the idea that he will be doing Alaske style deep water anchoring and wants the extra ponies to pull 1000ft of rode in varying conditions.
He has been out with a buddy that also has the same boat with the twin 150 Yamis and felt that it could be more peppy particulary when pulling the deep water anchor system.
I'm enjoying reading the thoughts and again, thanks....
Beeeee
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Old 05-22-2009, 02:05 PM   #40
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Default Re: North River OS 26

Tomic, I had 8 people onboard, 4 shrimp pots, 8 limits of shrimp, left over bait, SS bar b que, various amounts of gear and food, and nearly a full load of fuel minus what was used to get where we were and I was able to get up on plane and be cruising at 34mph. When I could not go faster I realized I had not started the second engine! By the criteria you just set forth, maybe some rethinking is in order. There is not doubt that one 175 etec is better than the one 225 yammi I had.
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Old 05-22-2009, 06:13 PM   #41
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Default Re: North River OS 26

if you cant remember to start the other (beloved but now ignored twin) how can I trust you to count?...I have never been a big defender of the yami 225, you picked that one..also..

maybe all you really need is a single 175 and a used T8..

do it from 60 out and I will rethink my position...




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Tomic, I had 8 people onboard, 4 shrimp pots, 8 limits of shrimp, left over bait, SS bar b que, various amounts of gear and food, and nearly a full load of fuel minus what was used to get where we were and I was able to get up on plane and be cruising at 34mph. When I could not go faster I realized I had not started the second engine! By the criteria you just set forth, maybe some rethinking is in order. There is not doubt that one 175 etec is better than the one 225 yammi I had.
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Old 05-22-2009, 06:39 PM   #42
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Default Re: North River OS 26

ok bee,,,,,,you sure it does not have the 170 gal tank?..

here is a single powered NR 21 with the intitially mentioned 200:

4000 27.7 7.3 3.80, from my experience, 4-4.5K rpm is the MPG sweet-spot for Yami anyway. My Ficht was 4K rpm.

so round down a bit to 7 gph x2 = 14 GPH for lets round up 30 mph is about 2 mpg.

does the boat have Tuna or La Peruse range from say sekiu? or neah?

.66 X 130 = 86 usable gallons (rule of thirds), less trolling time on station, lets say 3 gph at Tuna speed x 8 hours of troll = 24, usable fuel is now 62, at 2 mpg range is 120 ish or 60 out.

still have the self bailing scupper under issue.

maybe twin Suzy 175's???? with chains...I do not think a belt driven valvetrain makes sense for a hi hour kicker




Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBeee View Post
Further info to consider.
Sounds like the boat has a 130 gal tank.
This guy spends as much time offshore as possible and the sound only when forced to do so.
A big reason to have more power vs. less for him is the idea that he will be doing Alaske style deep water anchoring and wants the extra ponies to pull 1000ft of rode in varying conditions.
He has been out with a buddy that also has the same boat with the twin 150 Yamis and felt that it could be more peppy particulary when pulling the deep water anchor system.
I'm enjoying reading the thoughts and again, thanks....
Beeeee

Last edited by tomictime; 05-22-2009 at 06:40 PM. Reason: performace table data
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Old 05-22-2009, 07:58 PM   #43
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Default Re: North River OS 26

what size prop do you run
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Old 05-22-2009, 08:21 PM   #44
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Take alook what the CG runs on their OB boats , They are all twin outboards ,try spending 200 days a year on the water running twins then get on a boat with a single and you feel like somebody cut one of your legs off . You might get to the beach with your kicker when your main quits and the weather turns bad , but it will probably be face down in the sand . Its OK to speculate on what you can do when your at home but when your 50 miles offshore mother nature has a way of bringing the harsh realities home . Just remember when your dead from making the wrong decision your dead for a long time . Former coastie who has picked up too many who made the wrong decision .
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Old 05-22-2009, 09:32 PM   #45
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Default Re: North River OS 26

This thread has brought out the spectrum at both ends. From the high end of combat load the boat with anglers, fish and ice and be able to plane on one of the twin engines to the other side of the spectrum with "Gitter-R-Done" single engine and then there is the middle of the spectrum having one large engine and a trolling motor. All have made good points. All have pros and cons with the cost of ownership at both ends.....Like was said, there is no free lunch and everything is a compromise.
Several of the boat manufactures are tied to a specific brand of motor. In this case, the buyer has a wild open selection for motors...makes the decision buying more interesting .
Bee, The best advice is have the buyer ride/sea trial on a single and twin motor configuration of the boat that he just bought. Only then will he have the actual experience himself.
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Old 05-23-2009, 07:54 AM   #46
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Default Re: North River OS 26

I have sat back watching this thread grow. And a lot of debate as to
if twins over single is better. I think two 150 Yamaha's would do nicely.
I have a 22 ft OS.
I like it over others for a lot of reasons.
if I had to buy one today. It would have twins. for the ability to turn
on a dime and for the safety factor. But it came with a single 225 yamy
and a 8 kicker. so that is what I have to deal with. Now as for setting the
boat up. I would put a pump on the fish hold and I would Buy the best electronics I could buy.
it it has a 120 gal tank that is good. what does it have for inside. seats and other.?
You have one great platform to start with already. Did it come with both helm stations or just the main station.
If there is just the one. I would add the aft station.
And I would go with the fly by wire systems if they are available for the motors you decide
on. If you can upgrade to a better trailer I would do that. On the inside
I would put up a wall to separate the two area's.
it keeps the cushions from sliding aft,If you have them.
I have pole holders on the side and on top.Still not enough.
I have Put pole holders on the roof inside. that was a good one.
it freed up the bunk area.
I set up both engines to give me warm water in the coffee can in the center back fish box.
that is nice.I have warm and clean hands. I have arm rests on the helm seat.
With an AP you will see why that is nice.
I would put grad bars on the inside roof.
I would put a small refrigerator in it. There are a Lot of I woulds, but
it's your pocket book that has to pay.
I have both flush mounted poles holders all the way around.
And rail mounted poles holders.
I do not care of for the rail mounted one's they are for ever moving.
you can not keep them from not. Buy the scotty brand. the fish on's
I would not have. But that is me. well no it's the guys that fish with
me that do not like them. A windless would be nice, but then again
how much will it be used.?? I have my boat rigged as what is needed
not what I think I need on it. Fishing space and space in side is a premium.
The more you put on it, the less you have. So think about that, when buying
stuff to put on her. And one thing, Have fun.
You just got a great fishing platform.
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Old 05-23-2009, 10:45 AM   #47
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Default Re: North River OS 26

He does intend to have twins I'm sure and a T8. Auto pilots on both systems. Pretty sure Furuno package for electronics. I'm not sure about fuel capacity, I thought he said 130 gals. but 170 would be better.
Hopefully he'll get on here and chat about what he's thinking.
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Old 05-23-2009, 08:29 PM   #48
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Default Re: North River OS 26

who did you pick up with a failed large 4-stroke single and running adequate aux power? send a link to the Cg report on the most probable cause of the death.

all due respect, twins does little to reduce risk and as I stated actually increase the odds of a propulsion related problem, now triples is a different issue - although bad gas will take ALL three down, which is one reason our CG prefer Diesel for real offshore vs. near shore litoral use.

Quote:
Originally Posted by packer View Post
Take alook what the CG runs on their OB boats , They are all twin outboards ,try spending 200 days a year on the water running twins then get on a boat with a single and you feel like somebody cut one of your legs off . You might get to the beach with your kicker when your main quits and the weather turns bad , but it will probably be face down in the sand . Its OK to speculate on what you can do when your at home but when your 50 miles offshore mother nature has a way of bringing the harsh realities home . Just remember when your dead from making the wrong decision your dead for a long time . Former coastie who has picked up too many who made the wrong decision .
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Old 05-23-2009, 09:19 PM   #49
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Default Re: North River OS 26

Here's a link to a performance test of the Suzuki 300HP. The hull weight is 3400#, less than the boat in question, but about the listed weight of a 25' Silver Streak Swiftsure Cuddy. With an 18.5" pitch prop, it will do 50MPH at WOT, yet deliver 4MPG at 4000RPM @ 31MPH. It will also idle at 2.3MPH, burning .35GPH, and troll at tuna speed at 4MPG. With a lower pitch prop for the heavier hull, this looks like an excellent performer. Forged pistons, VVT, very high tech.

It only weighs 600#, and when it comes to motors, light is right. Twin 150's will not be FBW, and weigh 500# more!!! Plus a kicker. Two AP's instead of one, higher fuel burn. This really should be a no-brainer.

http://www.suzukimarine.com/boat_bui...r_sport/df300/

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Old 05-24-2009, 06:32 AM   #50
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Default Re: North River OS 26

Tomic you are right! By doubling the engines, you are more likely to have a breakdown. Simple mathmatics! I dont fish salmon, so a kicker to get me back does not compute. Everyone has to make their own decisions. I did the single engine thing with the kicker already. It was fun and it worked. But the twins I now have are so much better. Maybe in a few years my thinking will change when I have had all these breakdowns you are talking about.
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Old 05-24-2009, 07:09 AM   #51
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Default Re: North River OS 26

Tracker, you made the best choice given your constraints.

as for the laws of probability - you can choose to believe yourself into beating vegas also.....probability in the case of twins is additive, you may not like that fact - but it is true.....
if you would like an independant view of this, do a search on twin engine vs 4 engine airplane, engine event probabilities. Both the market and the regulating authorities have spoken, twins beat the 4 engine stuff.

i thought U were going hunting????

but in the interest of helping this guy, who has already decided for twins and a kicker - lets move this debate and post up something of use to the guy...i did his range calculations...maybe you can post some video????



Quote:
Originally Posted by tracker View Post
Tomic you are right! By doubling the engines, you are more likely to have a breakdown. Simple mathmatics! I dont fish salmon, so a kicker to get me back does not compute. Everyone has to make their own decisions. I did the single engine thing with the kicker already. It was fun and it worked. But the twins I now have are so much better. Maybe in a few years my thinking will change when I have had all these breakdowns you are talking about.
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Old 05-24-2009, 08:13 AM   #52
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Default Re: North River OS 26

Brake downs happen to those that do not do upkeep. You take care of your boat, and use it a lot.
There are 2 types. the one's that are pro-active and the one 's that are re-active.
You are always doing something on your boat. Right. Tomictime is right about 2 or 4
But as an aircraft tech and inspector. 2 is easier to work on over 4
and lot less cost to maintain. the aircraft made today use very safe
and well tested engines to use on the aircraft of to day.30 years back
the thinking was more is better. that is debatable in light of todays
technology today over what was 30 years back. The brake downs
I see at sea today are old boats that are not being taken care of
right... for the most part. I'm happy with the power I have on my
boat. But if I could have two. I would .I like there ability to move the
boat around, where as the single gets pulled around by the wind, that
a single can not deal with. Correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tracker View Post
Tomic you are right! By doubling the engines, you are more likely to have a breakdown. Simple mathmatics! I dont fish salmon, so a kicker to get me back does not compute. Everyone has to make their own decisions. I did the single engine thing with the kicker already. It was fun and it worked. But the twins I now have are so much better. Maybe in a few years my thinking will change when I have had all these breakdowns you are talking about.
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Old 05-24-2009, 08:56 AM   #53
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Default Re: North River OS 26

only boat I know of in the 22-26' size with 2 seperate fuel systems for twins is the SeaSport.

1 tank with 2 motors with bad gas = 2 dead motors

Tracker. Im curious in those 1000's of hours you put on your F225 how many times did it break down offshore on you?

Seems most issues I saw and heard of the last few summers with breakdowns offshore were with I/O's and overheating, tossing belts or the starters freezing from corrosion.

I suppose one could hit something in the water and take out the main, but barring that, I havnt heard of any DIW failures on any newer 4 strokes that werent fuel related
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Old 05-24-2009, 09:50 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomictime View Post
who did you pick up with a failed large 4-stroke single and running adequate aux power? send a link to the Cg report on the most probable cause of the death.

all due respect, twins does little to reduce risk and as I stated actually increase the odds of a propulsion related problem, now triples is a different issue - although bad gas will take ALL three down, which is one reason our CG prefer Diesel for real offshore vs. near shore litoral use.
Unfortunately all my experince was prior to to the big four strokes , that being said every thread on this site about safety offshore deals with redundancy, mutiple radios , navigation , rafts , life jackets and propulsion , Nalu and the rest of the small charter guys who spend many days offshore would agree that that anything under 25hp offshore doesn't provide the margin of safety you would need in bad weather . Having a large single fail offshore may not be a fatal error , but there is a good chance somebody will have to use valuble resources to come to your aid. there is a huge operational difference in cost between running 47' with twin diesels and and a recreational 26' with twin OB . Also diesels are more susceptible to water contamination than gas engines , that is why they run multiple filters . Packer
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Old 05-24-2009, 10:28 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paddler View Post
Here's a link to a performance test of the Suzuki 300HP. The hull weight is 3400#, less than the boat in question, but about the listed weight of a 25' Silver Streak Swiftsure Cuddy. With an 18.5" pitch prop, it will do 50MPH at WOT, yet deliver 4MPG at 4000RPM @ 31MPH. It will also idle at 2.3MPH, burning .35GPH, and troll at tuna speed at 4MPG. With a lower pitch prop for the heavier hull, this looks like an excellent performer. Forged pistons, VVT, very high tech.

It only weighs 600#, and when it comes to motors, light is right. Twin 150's will not be FBW, and weigh 500# more!!! Plus a kicker. Two AP's instead of one, higher fuel burn. This really should be a no-brainer.

http://www.suzukimarine.com/boat_bui...r_sport/df300/

I have no business relationship with Suzuki, but own a DR650.
single suzuki 300 -615 lbs 4.0 liters disp. yamaha 150 , 422 lbs 2.6 liter disp. twins 844 - 615 =229 lbs 5.3 L toal disp. vs 4.0L = more torque for the yamahas, when you add a 9.9 kicker at 132 lbs your total weght savings is only 97 lbs . Before anybody makes these kind of decisions they need to sit down with spec sheets and a calculator to arrive at an informed decision . If you go with the V8 yamaha you are actually lighter with the twins and no kicker . Speaking from my experiance ,we regularly troll with 26 ft weldcraft powered by twin 150's and have no problems . also docking with the twins is a breeze as the large cabin has a large sail area .
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Old 05-24-2009, 12:38 PM   #56
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Default Re: North River OS 26

Quote:
Originally Posted by olybirds View Post
only boat I know of in the 22-26' size with 2 seperate fuel systems for twins is the SeaSport.
We had a 25' Parker with dual tanks with seperate filters and outs to twin 130 (maybe 150) Honda's about 5-10 years ago, so there might be a few others. Burned fuel though, whoo-wee. Oh, in SE AK, not OR or WA, or east for that matter. So there might be a few others, but definitely not common.

Last edited by sgmaiers; 05-24-2009 at 12:39 PM. Reason: punct.
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Old 05-24-2009, 02:11 PM   #57
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Default Re: North River OS 26

Packer, I see on their website the 150 Yami's are 466#, so that's 932#. I thought they were 550# each, so my mistake. But, Dave said he's going with a kicker, so add another 132#. Total is still nearly 1100# (slightly less with a T8), plus all the cables. That vs 600# for the Suzuki, which has FBW and will troll salmon speed.

I only have ~350 hours on my motor in this the fourth season. I don't have a kicker, so run and troll with it. I'd use the same approach in a new boat that has served me so well for the past 15 years. I don't worry much about wear and tear on my main. My last one was 9 years old when I sold it 3 years ago. I happened to run into the guy who bought it last week at a local reservoir. Still running strong, not a single problem. The motor is a 1998, and must have well over 2000 hours on it. Plus, I'd rather troll along at idle with the main than listen to that buzzy kicker.

I agree, you need to sit down with a calculator and think about all the variables. With the twins/kicker combo, you'll gain 500#, a bunch of cables, and lose FWB. The only advantage for twins is for maneuvering around the dock. That's why they have bumpers.
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Old 05-24-2009, 02:42 PM   #58
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Default Re: North River OS 26

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paddler View Post
The only advantage for twins is for maneuvering around the dock. That's why they have bumpers.
It is because of comments like this that I highly advise any newbies or lurkers on this board to completely ignore any and all advice given by the above poster.
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Old 05-24-2009, 03:02 PM   #59
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Default Re: North River OS 26

..now Mike, you have lost your holiday sense of humor...
Paddler has some interesting and valuable prespectives. And he is data driven and a sci method kind of guy.

its clear i am advocating a minority opinion...my biggest issue is three motors on an 8.6 wide boat, is it a good time to talk about scuppers?
there are two, (twins), one on each side with the difference between happy and sad being a ping-pong ball and a rubber seal built by the low bidder. Add 4 guys and fish offshore and there is a ton easy in the aft end...

lite twins are looking better with a chain moved valvetrain and no kicker, my semi-recanted vote - even tho I brought it up b4 is twin 175 Suzys. No FWB..yet

as i recall your O/B bracket is full-width across the back, grady has an engineering department, i suspect that besides the cool euro look - there was some thinking going on.

Packer, I was a bit rough in my retort - more than a few times I thought about deleting that post - i do respect your CG service and knowlege. i will delete it if you think someone will go off half cocked and un-prepared.

Herman: i agree, bad things do happen to those who do not maintain stuff. SOME The weak links in the new stuff are things that do not need maintenece. Only failure in the f250 so far is a voltage regulator

Oly makes a good point, fuel: bad fuel is the common weak link. I carry 4 racors and each motor has a seperate filter. I used to have 6 Gal for the kicker on the transom, but realized that it was at risk for many reasons and not easy to plumb thru the racor. the seperate tanks strategy holds water IF you filled them at different places/times.

peace
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Old 05-24-2009, 06:04 PM   #60
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Default Re: North River OS 26

I was just offering up my opinion, I think what you have to say
is very good advise. And as good as tracker, Nalu and and the rest.
Please don't let these guys get a hook in you.
You know how us fisherman like to throw out a hook now and again.
Here fishy fishy fishy. Now Paddler,that is another story.....
Here fishy fishy
I think we all need some Tuna to go play with.
It will calm us all down a little.
It's just getting too intense. With no Halibut off the CR .
Did I say I just completed My rocket Launchers and there all painted up
drying and ready to install on the boat.
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Tight Lines and Flat Sea's
So Many tuna, So Little Time.
22 Ft NorthRiver OS, Misty Dawn.
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