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Old 07-19-2004, 12:27 PM   #1
Abalone
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Default Herman Creek

Anyone fish Herman Creek Lately ??

I was there yesterday..

It's just getting started. Some rolling but only saw three fish caught for about Six boats.

Two were on flies.

I am hoping to get my first Steelhead on a fly there soon..

I have had Steelhead on but never landed one. I have fished the Deschutes I don't how many times.
I was bad timing I am sure. I used to go to Free Bridge all the time and fish daylight.
But the times I have been there we never got anything, not even on hardware.

But now I am more determined then ever. I would like to score one on the Clackamas. Any time any of you
guys or gals want to take me to the Clack and show me how I am game. I have a small Aluminum Drift boat
all beat up from hitting rocks on the Clack in low water if you want to do a drift some time.

It aint pretty boat it floats.

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Old 07-28-2004, 01:56 PM   #2
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Hmmmmm.... Lots of people lurking this post, I wonder what's the matter. I got a PM that stated Herman Creek
was a Zipperlip spot. and some folks don't approve of fishing there. Well what the hay. Got there at real Dark
Oclock yesterday and the nets were sprewn all over the place with one boat anchored off in the Dark.

I got my first Steelhead on a Fly. ( Congradualations Me ) Yes I am proud of myself I finally did it.

Yep ! I fished for steelhead with a fly on the Descutes ( And lost em ) But not with the determination I gave it this time.

It was a fun day till........ I have seen some low class fisherman before but these guys take the prize.

What's the limit on Summer Steelhead. Two hatchery fish isn't it ? What wrong with the guy that came in and crowded us out.
Not only was he a jerk to anchor on top of me and then throw his bobber out in front of me then he quicky
Bonked two Steelhead and kept fishing.

Well HC aint no Zipperlip hole. As far as Fly fisherman having any adverse effect on the fish I don't know who's does more harm
the Indians or the Freaking Jerks that meat fish and bonk every hatchery fish they catch and then some.

Well sorry if I mentioned anyones favorite Secret spot but You can have Herman Creek and keep it...

Yeah I'll still fish there.. But not in the Jerk hole.
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Old 07-28-2004, 02:34 PM   #3
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Default Re: Herman Creek

Congratulations on your first fly caught Steelie - sorry
you did not have a better experience.

:blush:
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Old 07-28-2004, 03:02 PM   #4
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i thought Herman Creek was for low life snaggers!!!!!! it most certainly isn't a secret spot by any means. that is why i haven't been there since i found "the circle of friends" were just setting hooks on line bumps. just makes me sick.

good job on your first steelhead with a fly.
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Old 07-29-2004, 05:02 AM   #5
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Default Re: Herman Creek

Later on there are a lot of snaggers there and I have seen them. But not this year so far.

I want to retract something I said earlier. I was wrong about he guys taking too many fish. I found out
after we left the guys that bonked the two steelhead left right after we did.

Never the less. There are regulars that fish there that tend to dominate the fishing. They are polite but they
sort of set the rules. I have had fun there and met plenty of very nice people. HC is a great place to fly fish
for Steehead.

Good luck
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Old 07-29-2004, 08:25 AM   #6
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Default Re: Herman Creek

Glad you got your first fly steelie
Herman Creek is like alot of other places where fish stack. You can't let what the other guy does stop you from having a good time and fish the way you want to fish. Sounds like you were on the bar and it's pretty much acceptd that guys will walk right in and start fishing next to you.Real combat tyle but most people are nice and will help. the guy in the boat was pushing it but you need to speak up and let him know he can' drop their that where your fishing, just part of the game. also if he was fishing after tagging two fish then thats a no no even if he did not catch any more. Take a cell phone,keep the Ph# to OSP with your fishing vest and make the call if you see people breaking the law, it is the only way that it will stop OSP can't be every where but we can help be their eye's when they are not around.
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Old 07-29-2004, 10:20 AM   #7
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Default Re: Herman Creek

Congratulations on the steelie on a fly!!

Herman Creek a zipperlip? Tell that to ESPN:

http://espn.go.com/outdoors/fishing/...man_Creek.html
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Old 07-29-2004, 10:38 AM   #8
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I just wanted to set things straight. The guy I thought continued to fish after catching two did stop fishing.
I left as he was bonking his second Steelhead. I made a bad assumption that he continued to fish. I guess I
was a little cranky about him anchoring right behind us. I have to learn more tolerence I reckon. Also he did not
start fishing till we pulled out.

It's just that he was making loud remarks about us being in his spot and openly displayed his emotions about us
being there. It kinda messed up an otherwise perfect morning.....
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Old 07-29-2004, 01:06 PM   #9
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Default Re: Herman Creek

hey I am glad someone else admits to fishing Herman creek hehe I love fishing there and I am not a low life and I do not snag fish so those people that claim all the people that fish there are snagers are full of it. Conradís on the first fish. Hey any time you want to drift the Clackamas let me know i have caught a few on the fly out of there. rp
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Old 07-29-2004, 01:17 PM   #10
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Default Re: Herman Creek

Way to go on the steelie!

Are you going to share a pic?

Herman Creek a zipperlip secret spot?! That's not even funny, just plain stupid.
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Old 07-29-2004, 01:25 PM   #11
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Default Re: Herman Creek

ryan- no offense meant. i am not accusing you of anything. i have been there many times, and i stated exactly what i saw. i have seen people ff in there on their pontoon boats, but they were out towards the channel away from the "circle of friends".
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Old 07-29-2004, 01:48 PM   #12
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Default Re: Herman Creek

Hey any time you want to drift the Clackamas let me know i have caught a few on the fly out of there. rp

Any Time??? Lets go ! I have a drift boat and I have a pontoon boat. The folks I know that fish a lot have told
me the Clack isn't a good place to fly fish but I believe from a lot of the post I have seen on IFISH that isn't true.
any how I would love to give it a shot...

This guy Andy was fishing there and he took the picture. Andy was a really nice guy to fish next to and he's a great fisherman.
It was a pleasure to be around such a nice person.
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Old 07-29-2004, 01:55 PM   #13
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Default Re: Herman Creek

http://karamanos.net/sports/fish2004/tony4.jpg

If you want to see my first Steelhead on a fly go here. Yeah I know I am ugly so what about it ?
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Old 07-29-2004, 02:58 PM   #14
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Default Re: Herman Creek

Thanks for the comments! Tony didn't mention there were four photos of his fish posted:


http://karamanos.net/sports/fish2004/tony1.jpg
http://karamanos.net/sports/fish2004/tony2.jpg
http://karamanos.net/sports/fish2004/tony3.jpg
http://karamanos.net/sports/fish2004/tony4.jpg
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Old 07-30-2004, 02:56 AM   #15
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Default Re: Herman Creek

Hey what you up to next weekend? if you are open for a drift I have no plans. I would love to drift the clack with you any time rp
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Old 07-30-2004, 10:43 AM   #16
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By next weekend, do you mean tomorrow ?

O.T. this weekend until I get off at 2:30 PM.

Are you interested in going late ?
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Old 07-31-2004, 11:33 AM   #17
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Default Re: Herman Creek

My son, my nephew and another friend (Todd) fished Herman this morning. All were fly fishing (of course, this is the fly fishing forum). Todd caught three steelhead and my son caught one. The bait fishermen were not doing well.

I fished Herman yesterday (Friday) and it was dead. Only one boat caught anything. The bad fishing may have had to do with the six Indian gill nets in the estuary. There were no gill nets today.
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Old 07-31-2004, 11:39 AM   #18
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Thanks Andy: I might try to get over there after work next week. I am OT this weekend.

I sent you an email, did you receive it ?
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Old 07-31-2004, 12:17 PM   #19
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Default Re: Herman Creek

If you sent me an email today, then the answer is "no". Last email I received from you was Thursday.

Looks like I will be fishing Herman on Monday with my nephew. If you get any mornings off let me know. The only day I have "booked" next week is Thursday. There are steelhead in the Kalama, Clackamas and North Santiam. So many fish, so little time!
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Old 07-31-2004, 05:17 PM   #20
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Default Re: Herman Creek

Congrats on your first flyrod steelhead! I also applaud you for freely admitting you fish there in spite of some negative perceptions about the place.

So OK, I fish there too... and have for years. Yes there are some true lowlifes there, but most of the folks are pretty nice, especially the fly crowd. The low-lifes BTS is referring to show up in force about the time the Silvers arrive and it is sickening to watch. It doesn't matter if you call them the "circle of friends" (more like jerks) or the "corky-ripping" crowd, - you'll know them when you see them, although not everyone who plunks bait there falls into this category. The rippers are obvious, - any line bump is met with a line ripping hookset. There's nothing like watching the same guy drag in dozen native steelhead by the tail to make your blood boil! I should add that I have never seen the bobber crowd snag a fish.

Unfortunately this kind of activity seems to taint the whole fishery and anyone who participates in it, - at least to some anyway. Call it "guilt by association" but I have been made to feel as though I were one of those lowlifes at a particular flyshop for flyfishing there. This has bugged me for a long time because I care deeply about protecting native fish. I understand it is a "thermal refuge", but I do not believe (nor have I observed) that flyfishing there imposes any serious threat to the nates (but plenty of threat to the brats! :grin: ).

The ONLY argument that I can find against flyfishing there is that fish are sometimes foul-hooked. This does bother me, so this year I am going to experiment with flies tied on circle hooks (I finally found some at Fisherman's). With the 90 degree point, I can't see how they could penetrate anywhere but the corner of the mouth. I am confident they will be effective because the takes there are so solid, no real hookset is needed. The usual take is a "grab and turn" which sounds like a classic circle hook application. This should also prevent throat hookups which has happened more than once and is I another concern I have.

If anything, I feel that flyfishing at Herman Creek is maintaining a positive presence there. Trust me, a few flyfishermen hanging around with cell phones tends to have a dampening effect on the "party atmosphere" that can get going on the gravel bar.


AndyK, - glad to hear a few were caught Saturday. Wednesday was very slow, and Thursday was dead. I am sorry to report that the nets have been literally NUKING the place so far this year. They have been bad in the past but never like this. The word is that a particular gillnetter is putting nets in thoughout the cove every night and pulling them at daybreak. A hundred corky rippers wouldn't even begin to match the total annihilation of fish that is going on there this year. Me and my itty-bitty flies are really doing a lot of damage, - yeah right!

My apologies for venting a bit on a thread which should be more positive, but I'm very disappointed with whats going on there. It can be a really fun place to fish and a great place to put some chrome brats on ice where they belong.

Again, good going Abalone, it was great to meet you up there.

-SF
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Old 08-01-2004, 05:35 AM   #21
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And it is indeed a pleasure meeting you there Silverfish. You are a true sportsman as many of the people I have met there are.
I tend to be shy around big crowds so wether I fish there any more will depend on the pressure I encounter. It is obvious that you
care about the resource so I wouldn't sweat what other people think about fishing. I totally agree with you about Maintaining a positive
influence. I have to wonder about people that go to a place like Herman Creek or Eagle Creek and openly Snag. They must be clueless.
I have met some people like that and I wouldn't call them fisherman. They are there for the meat and don't really care about the resource.
They feel that they paid for a License and that makes them entitled to some meat. No different then many hunters I have met.
These days in order to be a fisherman you have to have a lot of tolerence. When I can I will do my part to report theives that Steal our resources
However: I try not to let their activities ruin my day. I see people everywhere throwing beer cans in a lake, snagging fish, Using bait in closed waters
Just plain being obnoxious. If I let it, My blood will boil. It's a choice between Staying Home or Going Fishing. I prefere the latter.

I want to go in the direction of Catching Salmonoids on a fly. I was determined to Fly fish the Ocean for Coho this year till my gear got Stolen.
That event really set me back. So I am wondering if I should start fishing the rivers instead. I am interested in fishing any of the locals rivers
with someone that has experiene doing that. I would like to learn. I have always heard the Deschutes was the main place to do that. But that river
is getting so crowded I am almost afraid to go there anymore for fear of not finding my own rock to stand on. I have read posts and talked with people
that seem to have high success on the Western Streams. So with higher fuel prices and Crowded Conditions on the Deschutes, Why not ?

Thanks for the Update......

I take it you know Andy ? He's a neat guy isn't he. His heart is really into it..
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Old 08-01-2004, 06:48 AM   #22
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Default Re: Herman Creek

As the mod of this section, I want to thank all of you who are participating in this thread. You have expressed your views without resorting to inflaming or name calling. Thank you, Giz...

I too have fished at HC. I have noticed that whether it is HC, the Kalama, NF Lewis or any other place fish hold up, a certain element shows up that ends up ruining it for all. Eventually, if enough complains are made to the authorities undercover stings will happen but the low life reappear. Then, the area is closed due to the snaggers and they move to the next area and it starts all over.

Keep the poachers hotline in your cell phone and call the no. perhaps the enforcement can deter the problem.

Giz...
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Old 08-01-2004, 08:34 AM   #23
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Default Re: Herman Creek

You can add another to the Herman Creek list. Fished it
between 91 thru 97 while I was stationed in Portland. It
has always attracted all types of fisherman. The best
thing you can do is just try to be a good example. Don't
think I ever fished that place when there was not a small
crowd. Did extremely well in there with a fly - these
days try to find places that are not too crowded - not
an easy thing to do anymore when chasing Steelies. Trust
me - if you do really well catching Steelies with a fly
rod you will get all kinds of grief - sometimes even
from other fly fishers. Next time you head out to Herman
Creek - just focus on having fun while being responsible.
The second you start catching some fish - you will get
grief, pushed out, crowded etc. Very sad but true. On
the other hand, in another area some guys have actually
moved just so I could fly fish. Think they get a kick
out of the fly fishing action. Now that is a descent
group of local guys.

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Old 08-01-2004, 11:51 AM   #24
rob allen
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Congrats on your first fish on a fly..

I don't know a thing about Herman creek. I do however feel that places that are used by large populations of travelling steelhead as cold water sanctuary should be closed to all angling. These fish are there for a reason, that reason is that they are stressed by the very warm water in the Columbia. I don't know what the water temps are like in Herman creek but i know at Drano lake water temps are barely cooler than in the Columbia and should not be open to angling during the summer.
Also any place where there is a signifigant poaching problem should be closed to all angling.
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Old 08-01-2004, 03:20 PM   #25
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Default Re: Herman Creek

hey Brother I ment next weeknd the 14th if you wanna drift the clack drop me a pm Rp
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Old 08-01-2004, 09:15 PM   #26
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Default Re: Herman Creek

Rob, sounds like you would like to see just about all waters closed. Fish travelling the Columbia pull into many of the tribs as the Columbia warms. Guess the Deschutes and the Klickitat would also fit the bill.

Anyway, I think you are asking for too much especially with the fact you usually argue to kill all hatchery fish no matter where you find them.

As for the poaching problem, why should the law abiding anglers be further deprived of limited fishing areas because of a few problem makers. The answer is enforcement and stiff fines not just close the river. Again, most rivers would be off limits if this was the rule, not the exception.

Do we close all the freeways because of the speeders????

Anyway, we need to do a trip real soon.

Giz....
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Old 08-02-2004, 02:01 AM   #27
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Default Re: Herman Creek

Rob, you have a valid concern, however the water within the Herman Creek lagoon is stratified into two distinct layers. The top few feet is a layer of warm Columbia River water. The bottom layer is very cold Herman Creek water and is (as you stated) why the fish are there. It is my understanding that temperature related C&R mortality is fairly immediate. Since there isn't anywhere for the fish to go, it would be very obvious if they were dying shortly after release. I also use a fairly heavy tippet (10# maxima) and I don't screw around playing fish too long.

I do know a lot about HC and have observed hundreds of steelhead released over the years, - including well over a hundred myself. In that time I can only count 1 for sure post release mortality, and that was last year when my fishing partner released a 10lb hatchery fish that was hooked behind the tongue but not quite to the throat. We use very small flies and the fish appeared to be OK. Unfortunately, I saw some blood right as it took off, and later it floated up :depressed: . Normally we keep all clipped fish until we are tagged out but it looked like we were going to have a short day so we let it go.

I agree it would be far better for the fish if it were closed to ALL fishing, but that would HAVE to include the indian gill netting. Even the effect the poachers have is infinitesimal in comparison to walls of death the gillnets represent. Of course it would be better for the fish if ALL fisheries were closed, but at HC I strongly believe the angling fishery is better off with the presence of flyfishers.

The poachers know flyfishermen have no tolerance for their activities and alter their behavior accordingly. The bobber guys are pretty intolerant too, but a lot of the corky rippers might not know that. If all the flyfishermen leave out of disgust, it might devolve into a free for all. Closing it because of the poachers will only move the poachers to less visible locations where they can be even more blatant with their methods and what they kill. Where do the closures end?

I believe the best way to fix the angling side of fishery is through tackle regulations. Of course, I would love to see it flyfishing only but as Bill Bakke pointed out to me once, ODFW apparently does not like to draw distinctions between angling methods. I made similar arguments to ODFW a few years ago about Eagle Creek (gorge) which had an even worse snagging problem (buzz bombs no less!). ODFW's response was to close it above the RR bridge after Aug 1st. As much fun I had there catching silvers, I have to admit that this was probably the best decision.

I admire your convictions about protecting native fish but as you have said yourself, killing hatchery fish is a good thing. Well Rob, if you start closing all these high concentration fisheries, there will be a lot more hatchery fish intermingling on native redds. Unlike terminal fisheries, places like Herman Creek and Drano offer supreme opportunities to harvest the full spectrum of Columbia River hatchery stocks before they get anywhere near a tributary.

So if you can't get the place closed, I would encourage you to pressure ODFW to adopt tackle changes for Herman Creek as the next best thing. Even though I feel flyfishing has the lowest impact on the resource (and yet is most effective), I do have concerns about foul-hooking and even throat hooking fish on flies at HC. I will let everyone the results of using circle hooks although so far this year there are so few fish (thanks to the nets) foul-hooking is a non issue.

I appreciate your input.

-SF.
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Old 08-02-2004, 03:54 AM   #28
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Default Re: Herman Creek

Rob Allen
so you are saying we need to close the mouths of every trib of the main stem CR from mid july. to nov. Cowlitz, Kalama, Willimette, ect. don't think that will ever happen
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Old 08-02-2004, 02:45 PM   #29
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I fished Herman again this morning. The water level was down and it was very windy, but the fish were biting! I hooked four fish, but only managed to land one fish, a small hatchery fish http://karamanos.net/sports/fish2004/steelhead32a.jpg (which I released!). My nephew Jeff was hot. He had landed six fish when I left at noon and reported later that he caught a total of ten. He lost just as many. His catch was about half natives, but he released all his fish, including the hatcheries. This photo is his first hatchery fish: http://karamanos.net/sports/fish2004/jeff9a.jpg

The other fly fishermen fishing near us also caught fish. Just a good morning.
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Old 08-02-2004, 03:45 PM   #30
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Default Re: Herman Creek

What i am saying is that wild fish are important enough that if needed all fishing should be closed.. I know there is a great amount of poaching by more than just a few anglers on drano lake largely because it is open all night. Lots of wild steelhead are poached from there and I believe the fishery should be closed. If the legit anglers there will not do something about it then it's their own fault.. I feel the same way about the Washougal in the fall and the north lewis in the fall. Most fishermen in both places are poachers NOT a small percentage of them. the vast majority are poaching. i say close them down.
I think that anglers should volentarily NOT be fishing in the Deschutes or any river when water temps get over 70 degrees

This is common sence and i think people should be forced to do whats right by regulation and if they refuse, if getting their ego stroked by catching a fish is more important than the fish themselves then i say close the fishery to angling.
basically i feel like people should treet the fish with respect and sportsmanship or go away.. may sound eleitist but I do not care! being right is more important than being popular
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Old 08-02-2004, 08:56 PM   #31
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Default Re: Herman Creek

Hoping to not turn this into a petty squabble, but I have to ask this question.
Quote:
being right is more important than being popular
Rob, have you always been right? For me fishing, like life itself, is a work in progress. I'd like to think I am more informed and make better decisions now than I did last year... and hopefully a whole bunch more than I did 20 years ago. But I wouldn't be telling the truth if I said I always did the right thing. Besides, I don't think being popular is really an option. :grin:
Tight lines, Jon
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Old 08-02-2004, 09:21 PM   #32
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Default Re: Herman Creek

I guess i just grew up around a lot of ethical fishermen, of all gear types. I think it's very sad the way things have progressed. it seems like now all that matter is a boat load of dead fish or a season of glory shots on film.
basically i think the ethical condition of salmon and steelhead fishermen these days os ib verp poor shape and i think it's sad..
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Old 08-03-2004, 12:20 PM   #33
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Nice pictures Andy, thanks for sharing..

I went up to Mciver last night to look it over.

$3.00 ? I didn't have a dime in my pocket. I went down to scout it out anyhow. After I left I went up to PGE property
above Estacada. Someone told me that the $3:00 fee only applies to weekends.

This don't sound right.

I am not a cheap [potty mouth], I just don't like fees. fees for this and fees for that. B.S.

Anyhow I crawled down the Canyon on the South Side of the river. Very Steep. There's fish there but the spot i
Picked wasn't really right for fishing because the current pushed too hard to the side I was on. I couldn't keep my
line in the Current. There's lots of fish in the water. I could see Salmon and Steelhead both. Now all I got to do is
figure out how to get one to hit a fly..
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Old 08-03-2004, 12:51 PM   #34
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Default Re: Herman Creek

I fish the Clackamas enough that I bought an annual pass (which applies to all state parks). Most of the county parks on the Clackamas are fee on weekends only. Not as bad as the Sandy River, where you get stuck paying county fees every day of the week (i.e. Oxbow).

I'll send you a pm on my Herman Creek results today. I'm sure most readers will be getting bored with daily reports on catching steelhead!
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Old 08-03-2004, 01:30 PM   #35
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andyk- KEEP THEM COMING!!!!!!!! i enjoy the reports even though i don't enjoy the spot. i like hearing about fish being caught.
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Old 08-03-2004, 01:47 PM   #36
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Default Re: Herman Creek

Okay, just for the "Blue Tip Spinner"

It was windy today, but not as bad as Monday. The water level is up from Monday, but there didn't seem to be as many fish rolling.

I caught an eight-pound hatchery steelhead at 5:40 (which was released) and hooked a second fish at 7:10. That was all the action for me. I fished mainly in the hole at the mouth of Herman Creek. There were numerous boats in the channel and they were catching fish in the hole by the piling.

I'm fishing elsewhere tomorrow and have another engagement for Thursday. But I will be back at Herman on Friday, unless the fish count at Bonneville drops. That doesn't like it will happen as it has been going up for the last three days.
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Old 08-03-2004, 02:06 PM   #37
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You should come up to Herman Creek Rob, we'll show you how to ethically catch and release a summer Steelhead.
There are lots of ethical fisherman in the Crowd. If it's legal it's ethical. Nuff said..............
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Old 08-03-2004, 02:51 PM   #38
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Default Re: Herman Creek

Yea get real, Are you willing to live the life style you would have to lead to have wild fish restored. I don't think so and even if you were, you would have to convince about 15 million other people in about 6 states to go along with you. Too much damage has been done to ever be undone. Their are still some small watersheads that are pristine and should be kept that way but on a whole you just can't restore enough to make a big difference. No way the dam's are coming down and they are the biggest stumbling block to all fish, wild or hat. 1,000's times larger problem than any poacher will be. As far as their being few legit fisherman at Drano, I guess all I can say is you must not fish their much and get to know the people that fish it all the time. We call in snagger's and over limits and make sure wild fish and foul hooked fish that can be seen are released. Drano is like other popular spots some people that fish there snag, and some bonk 3 or 4 fish in a day but if a certian group see it, it gets called in. As a side note for people fishing the bank at drano this year please use the new trash can that the Hat and those unlegit fisherman spent the time and money this year to put in. It has helped alot allready.
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Old 08-04-2004, 05:33 PM   #39
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Default Re: Herman Creek

"If it's leagal it's ethical" i could not disagree more!


Drano.. thouhg i do agree that dams are a signifigant problem. I think you vastly underestimate the ability of these fish to recover if given the opportunity to do so even in poor habitat conditions. On rivers where the runs are small such as the Wind one poacher taking one fish Is a serious blow to the entire run. I believe that any time a wild fish is harvested illegally it's a huge problem because you never know where that fish is headed it could be headed to a tributary that only gets a dozen asults returning.

you can't say oh thats just one fish from the Grand Ronde and think it's no big deal. it's a fish from a tributary to the greand ronde which has a very specific genetic make up that is required for that tributary..

Eash tributary puts out a dozen fish and 50 tributaries makes a run.
My point is that every single wild fish matters. EVERY single one! I have spoken with WDFW and UD fish and wild life enforcment guys and they agree Drano is an enforcment nightmare.
If one native is poached from Drano or Herman creek or wherever it's a HUGE problem and some places lend themselves well to poaching, thoes are places where fish gang up. I think these fisheries need to be carefully monitered and tightly regulated especially when high water temps are involved.
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Old 08-05-2004, 01:48 PM   #40
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We are talking Semantics.. Ethical, Legal, Right or Wrong.

If it's legal it's ethical.
Ethical Means _ Being in accordance with the accepted principles of right and wrong that govern the conduct of a profession.

So my statement stands:
However if you want to say Fishing at Herman Creek is Harmful to "Some" Fish and " Potentially endangers Others "

Then you May or may not have a point.

You are within your right not to fish at Herman Creek if you wish to. But it is legal and perfectly acceptable by the Majority of fisheman
that go there and I doubt if you will succesfully convince the ODFW or any of the many fisherman that fish there to close that fishery.

What I would like to see is for the " Honest Sportsman " that fish there to police those that jepordize our rights. The last I knew there
were only Fifty OSP game enforcement officers in the Whole State of Oregon. When you spread them out all over the state and then
multiply the number of places that have a Poaching, Snagging, Flossing and general slob mentality then you can see why places like
Herman Creek don't get a lot of protection. Then there's the fall when most of the OSP turn their attentiont to the Hunting Slobs.

What if > While fishing a favorite hole with 150 fisherman parked all over the place a snagger comes to a hole and starts to rip the water.
How long do you think he is going to stay there and fish when Twenty mean looking Fisherman start yelling at him ?
That's what we need to see happen. If we want our state to continue to have quality fishing experiences we need to protect it ourselves.

It's called Self help..

If it's Legal it's Ethical. If you don't like it you can call it something else but It is legal and ethical to fish at
Herman Creek and I can't wait to go back and Catch another Steelhead on a fly.
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Old 08-05-2004, 02:52 PM   #41
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Default Re: Herman Creek

Over 11,000 steelhead crossed Bonneville Tuesday and Wednesday. I'll be at Herman tomorrow!

If people were really interested in the welfare of our native steelhead runs, why were the gill netters in Herman last week? They weren't netting salmon and a gill net doesn't differentiate between a hatchery fish and a native fish!

Fly fishing is much more environmentally responsible then gill netting and carefully releasing the native fish will assure their survival.
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Old 08-05-2004, 04:10 PM   #42
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Default Re: Herman Creek



Quote:
a gill net doesn't differentiate between a hatchery fish and a native fish!
BINGO! We have a winner!!! Not only does a gill net not differentiate between native and hatchery, it does not differentiate between salmon and steelhead. They get a "season" for summer chinook and kill several THOUSAND wild steelhead in the process. How many of those tiny tributary wild populations that Rob is talking about will get wiped out when the "fall chinook" season starts?!!!

As for the temperature issue at Herman Creek, I took measurements today. Surface temp 70.5 f and 61.2 on the bottom in 8 feet of water at the entrance to the cove. I couldn't find the layer division because my transducer adjusts slowly to temp changes (I have a removable transducer on my driftboat).

I don't see a problem with fighting fish in that water,- plus they seem plenty frisky. If anything, I figure that I helped the native fish in the lagoon by removing 2 hatchery fish that were sucking up dissolved oxygen! Fishing was better but still had to work for them.

-SF.
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Old 08-05-2004, 06:07 PM   #43
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Default Re: Herman Creek

It is legal to fly fish for steelhead in 73 degree water with 3x tippet and a number 8 prince nymph however it's extremely unethical...
there are lots of things that are legal but unethical..
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Old 08-05-2004, 06:10 PM   #44
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Herman Creek seems like it's combat fly fishing....I'll pass
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Old 08-05-2004, 07:39 PM   #45
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Default Re: Herman Creek


Don't blame you for feeling that way Stew. I used to avoid crowds like the plague by going on long canyon hikes (my favorite), fishing during REALLY bad weather, and on holidays.

I went fishing on Christmas eve once (when I was single!). I was late to dinner at my sister's house and she just about beat me to death in her driveway when I showed up in my waders! The strangest thing was she didn't even notice the chrome 16# steelhead I was carrying!

After falling once and getting 10 stitches in my forehead on a long hike, and another time shattering my elbow, - I've come to the conclusion that company is unavoidable. Since I don't want to quit fishing, I've decided to take the lemons and make lemonade.

I now try to think of "combat" fishing as "SOCIAL" fishing. And for the most part, that is actually a good description of the FLY fishing at HC. The same cannot be said for the gear fishing at the main hole. There is actually a lot of room at HC, and when its good you can catch fish well away from anyone else.

About the only solitude I can find anymore is surf fishing. Now I just have to figure out those redtails on the flyrod.

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Old 08-06-2004, 02:07 PM   #46
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Default Re: Herman Creek

I understand what you are saying Stew. I tend to avoid congested places. I don't know what the crowd is like now.
A couple of weeks ago it wasn't terribly bad. I figured I would time it early before the big crowds showed up.
Meaning, during the Gillnet season. While it did reduce the numbers of fish it also reduce the number of people.
The thing you have to realize about Herman creek is that there seems to be three shifts that fish there.
Daylight to noon. Noon till Three and Three till dark. One way to look at Herman creek is that it acts like the
Bucket of poop at the Italian wedding. It keeps the fly's off the Bride. Just think, If all those folks weren't at Herman
creek they would be somewhere else.

On the other hand. I am glad I fished there. I met Silver Fish and Andyk. Two of the neatest guys I have met
all season. These guys are Good Sportsman and they care very much about our sport. I have learned from both of them
and to top it off I got my first Steelhead on a fly. I would say if you can get away during the Week and if you don't mind
getting up very early in the morning, Fish the first two or three hours after daylight and you won't have to worry much
about crowds. I know a couple of guys that do that once or twice a week and they get Three or four Steelhead per trip
on a fly. The catch and release only.

Even when it's crowded you can generally anchor up in the Channel. Everbody is pretty good about going behind you and
leaving your area alone.
Yep there are some jerks but most everybody is very friendly. Not what I would call combat fishing, where you have to
fight for a place to fish.


Now where's my flyrod ?
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Old 08-08-2004, 03:24 PM   #47
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Default Re: Herman Creek

Quote:
It is legal to fly fish for steelhead in 73 degree water with 3x tippet and a number 8 prince nymph however it's extremely unethical...
there are lots of things that are legal but unethical..
what's wrong with that or unethical about it?
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Old 08-09-2004, 04:19 AM   #48
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Default Re: Herman Creek

I knew this thread would really "open a can of worms" and it has. Fortunately, it has been civil and a lot of good discussions have resulted. The fact that you are asking this question is an example of the positives that can come from these discussions.

Although I can't speak for Rob, it is unethical to fish for steelhead with that tackle in warm water because you would have to fight the fish too long to land it, and most likely the fish would die. Warm water (70+) cannot carry enough dissolved oxygen for most salmonids to handle that kind of stress. I know it seems counter-intuitive that lighter tackle is less sporting (or ethical) than heavier tackle, but in this case it is. Actually with water that warm, ANY tackle is unethical.

Maybe we need to start a new thread on fishing ethics.

:lurk:

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Old 08-09-2004, 02:03 PM   #49
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Default Re: Herman Creek

Today (Monday) the temperature in Herman was 57.1 degrees at nine foot depth and 61 degrees on the surface! No stress for the fish there!

However, the strong east wind made stress for the fly fishermen! The wind probably caused some water turbulence and is the reason the surface temperature was so low.
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Old 08-10-2004, 02:59 PM   #50
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Default Re: Herman Creek

Hi,

I am trying to introduce my children to flyfishing, and would like to give them the chance to catch a steelhead on a fly out of Herman Creek. What flies and technique would you recommend?

Thx,

William
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Old 08-10-2004, 05:19 PM   #51
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Default Re: Herman Creek

First of all, how old are your children? I donít think this is a realistic proposal for children under twelve.

Second, do you have a boat or some other floating "device"? While it is possible to catch steelhead from the bank with a fly, there are usually too many "bait" fishermen to make this a safe and effective proposition.

The best lines to use in Herman are slow sinking lines, Intermediate being the best. The fish will be at six to ten feet of depth and you will need to get the fly down to them and keep it suspended while retrieving. A floating line with an Intermediate sinking tip will work. You will be at a disadvantage with a floating line, especially if it is windy.

The best flies are small: size ten and twelve. To handle a steelhead, this doesnít mean flies tied on a regular trout hook, but a heavy steelhead or nymph hook.

The most popular flies are wooly buggers, black or purple. Many fish have been caught on nymph patterns, such as Zug Bugs and Prince Nymphs. However, most Herman Fly fishersí have their individual favorites.

Finally, if the wind is really blowing at Herman, stay home.
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Old 08-13-2004, 12:06 PM   #52
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Default Re: Herman Creek

only a fool argues with a fool......

get out there and catch some fish. and better yet bonk a few on the head after you pull them out of the warm unethical water and onto your barbecue.
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