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Traeger grills, now proudly made in China

61K views 81 replies 51 participants last post by  Salmon Chaser 
#1 ·
How do you avid Traeger fanatics feel about this move?


They have recently laid off most of the US workforce because production has been moved overseas to China.
 
#37 ·
The American public hasn't demanded anything, they have been marketed to. Corps have chosen to unemploy us, go to China and tell us it's for our own good.
I label shop. If I will buy something made in Asia it will have an Asian name on it. The last product I will buy will be one made in china with an american name on it. american companies that lay off their workers and then set up in china are nothing less than traitors and I have great disdain for them. Their products should be heavily tariffed and they should have no tax shelters and the companies global sells should be taxed and their offshore labor should not be tax deductible. The shame is on them.
It's not "We" who have done this to our selfs, it's a corrupt system that we have no influence with that's doing it to us. I have no guilt, just anger.
 
#38 ·
The American public hasn't demanded anything, they have been marketed to. Corps have chosen to unemploy us, go to China and tell us it's for our own good.
I label shop. If I will buy something made in Asia it will have an Asian name on it. The last product I will buy will be one made in china with an american name on it. american companies that lay off their workers and then set up in china are nothing less than traitors and I have great disdain for them. Their products should be heavily tariffed and they should have no tax shelters and the companies global sells should be taxed and their offshore labor should not be tax deductible. The shame is on them.
It's not "We" who have done this to our selfs, it's a corrupt system that we have no influence with that's doing it to us. I have no guilt, just anger.

We do have influence and you are seeing that played out in the market. People have stopped buying products and many companies are feeling the pain. You vote at the ballot box once or twice a year but you vote with your wallet every day.
 
#40 ·
You're kidding that the American public hasn't "demanded" foreign products?

I'll give you a choice between two products, "A" and "B".

"A" is made in the USA. It has a longer life expectancy, has greater adjustments, and is overall a better product. It is made out of better quality of material.

"B" is made in China, Taiwan, or other Asian markets. It has a shorter life expectancy, has less quality control, and less adjustments. It is made out of a lesser quality material.

Installed, both products work exactly the same 90% of the time. Product "B" has a higher initial rate of failure, but it is "reasonable". Life expectancy of product "A" is 40 years, product "B" is from 5-15 years. All these products do is turn something on and turn something off.

Product "B" is 1/3 the cost of product "A".

Which is chosen more often?

Residential housing: Product B, almost 100% of the time
Light commercial construction: Product B, around 75% of the time
Commercial construction: 50-50 split
Hospitals/Schools, heavy infrastructure: Product A 75% of the time. This is only at this level due to diligence working with the engineering community to reinforce that in the long term quality products actually have a total cost that is less than poor quality products.

We live in a "lowest cost bid wins" world, and the age of a 1 year warranty. Two things in the US drive this; labor and taxes.

The labor in the US to manufacture is so far greater than China it is obscene. The hourly manufacturing cost in China is only 3% of the same cost in the US. The US has social responsibilities to employees that China does not have. We cannot come anywhere close to the 6 day, 70+ hour work weeks that are accepted in China. That doesn't even touch on the benefit side of things.

Taxes on US corporations and capital expenditures are huge in the US compared to Asia. Looking at the shift in Hi Tech chip production, it has been said that the reason the computer chip fabs are moving to China is not the 80%+ wage rate difference, but that there is upwards of 90% less taxes and other incentives for locating these facilities in China. While many US citizens are upset seeing major tax breaks for Corporations working in the US, the simple fact is that even WITH these tax breaks, the cost of doing business in China is less.

Any responsible domestic manufacturer (like my company) has instituted "Lean Manufacturing" in the US. We have looked at every conceivable way to take cost out of making our product. We are successful currently due to the demand of Just In Time product to distributors, allowing for smaller inventory, but we are in the construction industry.

Like it or not, the consumer market is low bid.

Again, I ask, how many rods or reels do you have that are American Made? Are you sure? Maybe they used to be, maybe you even still think they are because their high end stuff is still made in the US, but everything else is made in China......

I fish with Loomis...... ALL of their rods are made up the road.
I fish with Penn Internationals.. Those are American made, but I don't think the rest of the Penn line-up is.
I fish with Shimano...... We all know where they are made.
 
#48 · (Edited)
Again, I ask, how many rods or reels do you have that are American Made? Are you sure? Maybe they used to be, maybe you even still think they are because their high end stuff is still made in the US, but everything else is made in China......

I fish with Loomis...... ALL of their rods are made up the road.
I fish with Penn Internationals.. Those are American made, but I don't think the rest of the Penn line-up is.
I fish with Shimano...... We all know where they are made.

Nalu...hate to break it to you, dude, but G. Loomis isn't even an American company. It's Japanese.

Also, pick up a box that holds a new Shimano spinning reel. I bet you'll be surprised.
 
#52 · (Edited)
The fact of the matter is that G Loomis rods are 100% made in Woodland, WA. They employ workers in the factory as well as employ locals that do outsourcing work on the rods. They provide benefits to those employees, and those employees have families and contribute to the local economy.
So it is better to support a foreign economy with plants on American soil than the American economy even though portions of it employ overseas workers?


Malaysia. The answer is Malaysia and I didn't see that anywhere above. In fact, I didn't see Shimano mentioned anywhere until post #40.[/quote]

Please excuse me for not being able to follow what appears to be your circular argument. ???

The discussion as I understood it was manufacturing products in the US versus manufacturing over seas, not the country the parent country is from. That represents a whole different discussion. As for supporting a "foreign" economy.... US manufacturing regardless of origin of the principle ownership supports the US economy. Ask a worker making a Toyota in the US what the impact is on the US economy.- Here's a snippet-

In 2007 Toyota made 1.7 million vehicles in North America and by 2010 will have the capacity to build 2.2 million, Cuneo said. The company has invested $21.8 billion, created 43,858 direct jobs, and purchased $29 billion in goods from North American suppliers, including some 500 Tier One suppliers in 25 states.


As far as Shimano reels being from Malaysia- Now you're just being nit-picky, but not providing anything of substance or argument. My reference to the reels was that we knew where they were made- NOT domestically. "CHINA" can be substituted by a plethora of different countries that realistically can be lumped together. China, Taiwan, Vietnam, Korea and of course Malaysia. Please beg my pardon for not making that clear enough.

With regard to Shimano......they make excellent products. They have filled many voids in the US market on the reel side by introducing quality products that consumers wanted. The fact is they introduced reels to the US market that were better than the products we had here for the most part. When us companies lag behind and stop being innovators, there's not a chance.
 
#53 ·
So, then, the problem is not that products are no longer being made in the U.S.A, but that they're being made in "China" or

a plethora of different countries that realistically can be lumped together. China, Taiwan, Vietnam, Korea and of course Malaysia.
Is it anti-Chinese sentiment that gets us so up in arms? Been tried before (see 1850-1900). If products were being outsourced to Japan, would we be so incensed? Germany? Costa Rica? Canada? I guess what I'm really asking is this: Where is the line drawn?

I received a PM asking how I make my purchases. I choose to purchase the best product that I can afford. I don't care where it is made. I don't even look. Although now that I thing about it, that's not entirely true. I also look for a warranty. Marmot, Lamiglas, Shimano and Kershaw are products I specifically seek out when purchasing. Three of the four are local companies that I can drive to for warranty issues - if needed. Three of those three I've never needed to deal with for warranty issues.

I don't know what question I'm trying to ask. Something like: Are we angry because jobs are being moved overseas, or is there something deeper?
 
#41 ·
Free market/trade is a myth, what we lose our jobs for (compete against) is wide open pollution, slave wages and working conditions, bribery, totalitarian government control of the workers, build it here if you want to sell it here, devalued currency, the list goes on. What is our nations response to this playing field, Most favored trading status, NAFTA where products can be imported to Mexico or Canada and then shipped here duty free, open our high ways to Mexican long haul truckers (lower wages) to move those products. Penalize our industries that chose to stay here until they are forced to leave. Those of us in manufacturing are competing against treason, corruption and greed that's condoned and perpetuated by our government and a citizenry that just doesn't care. We are told that it's good for us, retrain yourself, go back to school, change careers, start over, we will extend your unemployment. This is sick.
 
#42 · (Edited)
There is no other country in the world that has as many, and demands as many luxuries as the US. TV's in each bedrooom, (maybe one for the kitchen), multiple vehicles, quads, boats, Hi-Def TV, homes owned by many..... The list goes on and on. The middle class in America are some of the richest people in the world.

Americans as a whole have more discretionary income than any other country in the world, and Americans SPEND more of their discretionary income than any other country.

For example, US citizens spent $880 BILLION on recreation in 2007. The next closest was Japan with $276 BILLION. Per capita, the average US citizen spent $2927 versus $2165 in Japan.

By contrast, China spent $34 per capita.

The trend of discretionary spending is the same in every category. The US citizen spends more per capita on what they want then any other country in the world.

The way the US citizen spends that discretionary income is a vote for what they place value on.

US citizens place a heck of a lot more value on quantity and price over quality. A Berkley Buzz Ramsey 15-50 rod would seem to be a good example. You can buy 4 of those compared to perhaps one of a G. Loomis.

Some people can't afford the G. Loomis
Some people don't care about the quality difference.
Some people want the quality, but they have a budget that doesn't allow it.
Some people would rather buy 1 G. Loomis rod than have 4 Berkley rods.

I'm in manufacturing. We have facilities in Corona CA, Blythville AR, Stuarts Drafts VA, Nacadoches TX, Lebanon OH, and Greensboro GA.

Yes, we face tough times manufacturing in the US, but we still do, and we intend to continue to do so. We have to be better at it than those overseas, but like anything else, we can either BE better and thrive, or do it the same old way and die on the vine.

Think there is a reason that Americans have so much discretionary income?
 
#46 · (Edited)
That's certainly fair enough. I guess my point is that I battle the import stuff every day. And when I say BATTLE, I mean it. We are constantly vigilant on every front to not let the poor quality imports get a foothold. If we don't we're doomed. Some of it is good quality, a lot of it is junk. Problem is, most people don't recognize the difference, and the disposable nature of todays society means that they often times get rid of it before the poor quality really is noticeable.

Which of course begs the question... Does it make sense to build a product that will last 40 years if the consumer only cares if it lasts 5?
 
#50 ·
If you wanted to buy one, I'd do it now. The ones in the stores are still the ones made here. Won't be that way in another month or so. Pellets will still be made here as well as rubs.
This will prove to be a real mistake and bring down a great name.

How do you avid Traeger fanatics feel about this move?


They have recently laid off most of the US workforce because production has been moved overseas to China.
 
#61 ·
I will only buy things made in the USA or at least if I can. Danners That are made in potland and I allways tell them I dont want there China crap. I wander how they can charge 600 bucks for a china Grill?? Rip off cause they are made for 50 bucks. Id gladly pay it to keep some one employed in the states
 
#65 ·
Listen, you guys can argue semantics all you want. Here you go... YOU WIN! You're right, it's all the same.

Nothing is black and white. Pretty much all manufacturers have parts or components that are not made in the USA. I work for a "DOMESTIC" manufacturer, and I can say that we have parts and pieces that we import.

You can define it how you will. You can argue that something IS, or ISN'T made somewhere else.

MY definition, and MY definition ONLY, not NAFTA, or BUY AMERICAN ACT, or anything else is where the the base components of the product are manufactured. In the case of our products, we cast the bronze and we cast the ductile iron that makes up our valves. We create the copper fittings, and plastic fittings out of raw materials. We take something that is nothing and CREATE a product.

In the case of a fishing rod, my definition would have to be, "what is the heart of the rod?" I believe most people would say it is the blank. If the rod manufacturer rolls the graphite around a mandrel in house, then applies the guides and handle to them in house, then the product is US, regardless of where the guides or handle comes from. They may be US, they may not be.

If the rod maker IMPORTS a blank from overseas, and then finishes the rod by simply attaching guides and a handle to it... well...it's your call. To me, it is where the heart of the product is actually produced. In this case, the blank is made overseas. The guides and handle may or may not be made overseas. Is it "Made in the USA" just because some low wager worker put it together? If you feel good about it, then more power to you.

So there you go. Justify all you want to your hearts content. I certainly won't say you're wrong. But for myself, I know that when I pick up a G Loomis rod, no matter what it is, I could feel good knowing that someone just up the road actually created the heart of the rod from scratch, and then someone else up the road added the pieces, then a local wrapped it, and a local finished it and put it in the packaging.

All this being said, it doesn't take anything away from rods not "made in the USA". They may perform to expectations, or even exceed expectations. It doesn't make the bad, or lessen them. As a perfect example would be the Berkley 15-50 IM7 rod. For $50 on sale it has got to be one of the best all around price point rods ever made (in my opinion) It looks good (the old ones looked better than the new ones and had better butts on the handles though) performs well, and everyone can catch great fish on them.

So there you go.

And of course, you can ask about whatever product you want to ask about, that way the question can answered the way you want it to be answered.
 
#66 ·
As I have said before. When given a choice between a US made product and a cheaper import, few will buy the US made product. We have tested it again and again. Do you think Traeger moved production to China for no reason? They did it for survival simply because consumers were not willing to pay what it cost to make them here in the US.
I have personally put this to a test and in every case, the lessor expensive import is what the average consumer will buy.
 
#75 ·
How many threads on this site start with, "...where do I get the best price for a (fill in your product)" This is where it starts and it ends i with offshore manufacturing.

Jackson Grills which are quite high end sold in the midwest are manufactured here as well. I know this because I went into it a couple years ago and bought one off their line- I had left my webber in the US.. and well it is probably made over here anyway too.

gus
 
#78 ·
So, if Traeger loses business to their competition because their prices are too high and they've done everything they can to get the cost down but still find themselves with waning market share, are they supposed to just accept that? They not only lose the US based jobs but the entire company and then no one is employed. Supply and demand says that some other company will step in if there's a market and a profit to be had and that company doesn't have to be US based.

Now look at a company , like HP, that sells home office printers on a grand scale. If they don't go global, their competition will eat them up. The foreign competition will build their printers in China and gain market share and profits that lead to better R&D funding which builds more market share. Pretty soon, HP goes belly up because they tried to protect the american worker and now we all buy Ricoh, Epson and Cannon. HP still employs a lot of americans in their business. It's a GLOBAL economy. We need to start acting like it. Even if you shut down our borders, our technology will suffer and we be known as the low quality country because we would be artificially supporting weak business models.

It's great that many of you seek out made in america products but don't force that on me. When has an american auto manufacturer been able to match the quality at toyota or honda? If I'm spending $30K on a car or truck, I'm looking for the best value for my hard earned money, not to provide financial support of a company just because they're american made. That's socialism gift wrapped as patriotism.

I have worked in and around plastic molded parts for 25 years. I saw very few american molders that had any quality advantage over foreign molders. Why would I keep a part here when it can be had for 1/3 of the cost overseas?

Lastly, american labor wages are only part of the story with respect to cost. Nalu noted taxes but let me also through in the cost of law suits and insurance, labor laws that make it almost impossible to fire someone, and a work force that, generally speaking, is inept. Most people that I've interviewed for jobs at $15/hr and under can't do simple math or write a coherent report, call in sick when the weather appeals to them, take long breaks to finish their cigarette, don't want to learn and feel that the employer owes them before they earn their first penny. Then they ***** when they don't get the raise they feel they desrved. These are the same guys that show up for interviews late in tatered clothes wearing a baseball cap. You can't references much any more because companies don't give them out for fear of lawsuits.

Supply and demand is healthy for our economy and for the business owners and workers.
 
#80 ·
I keep hearing about "all the jobs going overseas." That is simply not true.

When Joe Traeger operated the business in Mt. Angel, he had at most a few dozen employees. All types. Welders, other production types, office, sales, etc. He sold a few hundred units a year.

So now the fabrication goes to China. Gone are the few dozen employees, or at least most of them. But now Traeger will have a continental-wide sales effort through hundreds of dealers, possibly a distributor or two, etc. Thousands of new jobs will be created if the venture is successful.

You guys think too small. This is a big win for the North American consumer AND the labor force in at least three countries. U.S. workers will do very well. They just won't all live and work in Mt. Angel.

The glass is more than half full.:excited:
 
#82 ·
Do not fret Pellet BBQ's like Traeger will soon be made outside the Tri-Cities after the first of the year. For alot less then the old ones. I know the lady who has made 7 proto types. I ate a brisket,turkey, tri-tip, prime rib and salmon and you could not tell the difference. I know the argument for free trade blah blah blah. What people fail to realize is that it harms our work force and puts people out of a job. Buy one of those BBQ's from China and invite one of the guys who got laid off and his family over to eat. Show him your new toy and see how great it makes him feel. I do not shop Wal Mart I try and buy as much American made products as I can and believe me it gets harder every day. I believe that this country is made on the choices that we choose to make. I choose to buy American when possible and will pay more money for it at stores other then the one mentioned earlier. I sleep well at night knowing I am trying to do the right thing. :twocents:
 
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