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10K views 74 replies 36 participants last post by  kgpcr 
#1 ·
And no where near #1:
Americans are below average on most measures of health — from obesity to infant mortality — when compared with other rich countries, and they're falling behind on lifespan, too, according to the latest survey.

The annual survey from the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development has been used for years to show that the U.S. spends far more than any other comparable country on health care, yet gets far less for its money — and the latest survey is no different. Americans are fatter, die younger and don’t get particularly good treatment for many diseases, with the exception of strokes and cancer.
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Americans are by far the fattest, with an obesity rate of 36.5 percent in 2011, compared to 32.4 percent in Mexico, 25.4 percent in Canada, 4.3 percent in Switzerland and 2.1 percent in India.
And the U.S. is near the head of the pack in diabetes rates. Mexico’s rates soar — they’re at 15 percent of the population. But nearly 10 percent of Americans have diabetes, just about the same as in Poland and Chile, compared to less than 4 percent in Iceland and just over 4 percent in Sweden.

The report notes that Americans spend far more on health care than any other OECD country — $8,508 per capita in 2011, compared to $5,669 in Norway, the next highest-spending country, $4,522 in Canada, $3,405 in Britain and $3,213 in Japan. And we spend more as a country, too — 17.7 percent of gross domestic product (GDP) in 2011, compared to 11.9 percent in the Netherlands, the next-highest country, and 9.3 percent on average for the OECD.
http://www.nbcnews.com/health/were-number-20-us-below-average-most-health-measures-2D11635080
 
#3 ·
You have to wonder if the numbers counted actual citizens or people just visiting here. On a related note, Crabbait, how did they include you in the survey, Costa Rican or US citizen. ;)

Where is there methodology actually published? Sure, those on the left will agree with the group, but how about the rest of us that actually question their motivation and facts? I don't remember being surveyed, so I don't think I count in the stats.

I'm sure the really poor companies hardly ever get medical care, and since they are starving, they probably have great BMIs.
 
#59 ·
Nice chart but if you look up the data sources it also includes the cost drugs. If you recall we pay R&D cost on new drugs most of these other countries have made it illegal to pass R&D costs only actual cost and reasonable profit. Thats why one of my meds cost me 587 for one 30 day supply and the same from Mexico 56 bucks. Both were from the same company. If drug companies would be able to share this R&D costs world wide perhaps this chart would look different.
 
#7 ·
doc_63, no, we are supposed to take whatever people post as true. Let's forget that other factors like genetics or even comparing per capita income to per capita spending might be worthy of comparing.
 
#9 ·
It would be interesting to see taxes paid per capita of the US vs. those same countries in the graph above. I would venture a guess that we pay the least amount of taxes per capita.
 
#18 ·
See now, that's perfect right there.

Not only is it "patriotic" to pay more taxes,...
But if we just paid more in taxes,... We'd live longer!
Brilliant!

Somebody send it to Hillary for her '16 campaign. Cuz you know when the primaries roll around, Biden is comin' back with that "patriotic" thing again.
 
#15 ·
Do these countries that are doing "better" than us offer health coverage to 11+ million illegal immigrants?
Do they offer this care to EVERYONE?
How many people do they serve?
What is the tax rate in said country?
WHO pays for this wonderful health care?

Does ANYONE REALLY believe that the current U.S. government can create and run a health care system that is better than the one that has covered 85% of Americans for past few years. YES, something needs to be done to stop the health care cost explosion, but comparing the US to most of these other countries is apples and oranges....IMHO.

BTW - The above are honest questions!!!
 
#21 ·
I am not sure you are reading the data correct. Those other countries are not offering better health care. We are 26th in unhealthy people because we choose to be fatter not because of worse health care. Our infant mortality rate is higher than Canada because we produce a higher per capita of lower birth weight babies (because of more fat/unhealthy women). If you read the data.....we actually have a higher survival rate of low birth weight babies then Canada because of better health care. In short.....the USA is the best place to be fat,unhealthy and pregnant. Of course other countries just choose to be healthier and net live longer with worse health care.
 
#17 ·
Having spent a lot of time in Canada for business, I have to say the Canadian people must be the nicest people anywhere!

They all talk about their "FREE HEALTHCARE"

Very nice of all those doctors, nurses, administrators to work for free!

And, how about all those tradesman that worked for free so they would have the buildings they are in!

Not to mention the manufacturers that donated all those very expensive medical devices--MRI machines etc...!

Many, many people had to have donated time and skills to get this all to be free!

Yup, those Canadians are sure nice people!:whistle:
 
#23 ·
No. We have the best healthcare because you have the highest probability of your low birth weight baby surviving being born in the USA. The fact that we have the most low birth weight babies being born means we have the most unhealthy people (because we choose to be fat). In short. Our doctors give fat/unhealthy people the best chance to live the longest.
 
#31 ·
I think a fair conclusion to draw from this is health isn't determined by healthcare expenditures. Health as defined by the metrics provided is largely achieved through diet and activity choices.

Somebody should do a similar study of Ifishers. With all the fish we catch and eat, we should be like Iceland.
 
#34 ·
It would be nice if the actual cost of medical operations and the cost of drugs would be compared from country to country. I can't find it right now but I have seen comparisons between a knee replacement in the U.S. compared to other countries and it costs 1/2 to 2/3 less outside the U.S. One drug I take is $38 per month ordered from out of the U.S. and $125 at a local big box store. I know one drug I take has a larger price spread. Any guess as to where I buy them? A lot of the price differential may be because of good old American capitalism. After all America is built on high profits. Maybe we are not as healthy as others but we get stuck with higher fees for the same services.
 
#37 ·
It would be nice if the actual cost of medical operations and the cost of drugs would be compared from country to country. I can't find it right now but I have seen comparisons between a knee replacement in the U.S. compared to other countries and it costs 1/2 to 2/3 less outside the U.S. One drug I take is $38 per month ordered from out of the U.S. and $125 at a local big box store. I know one drug I take has a larger price spread. Any guess as to where I buy them? A lot of the price differential may be because of good old American capitalism. After all America is built on high profits. Maybe we are not as healthy as others but we get stuck with higher fees for the same services.
Drugs are cheaper outside the US because they just make them. They don't develop them. Its costs many millions to bring a drug to market. Its cheap to just make them. The overseas folks have no money invested in bringing it to market. All they have to do is make it.
 
#43 · (Edited)
Hmm and we don't have those delays here in the United States do we now? Because my mom who had her gall bladder explode after having a surgery where 90% of all people who have this surgery have their gall bladder explode with in a year. Then as a result of the gall bladder incident she has had a massive e. Coli infection for a year most of that waiting for imaging and tests to be ran. Because we know here in America we don't have those kinds of wait times. Kind of like the wait my mother in law had to have her veracious veins taken care. How she went in last year and now a year later she is finally scheduled for the procedure to remove the troubled veins. Because you know here in America we don't have that red tape weight for our health care, we don't have long lines to see our doctors. Here in America we are super because we have a high case of cancer and super doctors that can treat it better because it's not like the don't publish the results globally. We are better because we pay more and in return we save more under weight baby's and extend the lives of obese people.
 
#44 ·
Hmm and we don't have those delays here in the United States do we now? .

And you think that it will get better under Obombacare?


I have had three MRIs in my life. None took longer than a week or two to get it completed. Maybe it's the service providers and doctors that your family members are choosing that are causing those delays. A choice that will only narrow under Obombacare.
 
#46 ·
I stuck my nose into this debate because of misunderstandings and just plain WRONG "assumptions" that MANY Americans have about our Canadian health care. That being said, the people will eventually decide what they think will be best for them ( Oh-- sorry-- I forgot about the health care and big insurance industries that spin things to make themselves look good :whistle:)

Anyway-- the choice will be yours-- but I hope my small contribution here will be considered when you start comparing the US and Canada.

I have used both the USA and Canadian health care systems.

I would never go back to the Canadian system for a couple key reasons

1. In Canada the government decides my level of care. Canadian doctors are not allowed to charge higher rates for better service. In the USA...I decide my level of care. I can pay more then my insurance company will cover to receive the level of care I want.

2. Wait times for tests such as an MRI. None of my family living in Canada has ever had an MRI in Canada. They always pay to have it done in the USA. Its absurd to expect someone to wait months for tests such as MRI to rule out cancer. My father who is 66 cannot get a colonoscopy in Alberta. The wait list only for people who have medical history of this illness. I get them every 5 years in the USA.


I have to query the above post---- The Canadian govt does NOT decide my level of care. My doctor does. We ALL get the best level of care that is available . Rich and poor. Sure, wait times for non life threatening procedures such as joint replacement can be unacceptable if you are afflicted --- this flaw in the system is widely recognized and is being addressed by training and hiring new doctors.

As far as not being able to access top level diagnostics like MRIs or CAT scans etc in Canada, I can only speak personally about BC. And it is not true. 11 years ago I was diagnose with aggressive prostrate cancer. I waited only 2 weeks before I had a radical . A routine echo cardiogram a year ago showed up an aortic aneurysm .... I had a CAT scan the next day, and am monitored now on a regular basis (its stable .. so surgery is not called for at present. If things change I KNOW that I will immediately be scheduled for surgery. BTW-- the area population where I live is only 40,000 and we have TWO MRI machines and a couple of CAT scanners. It would be different if I lived in Northern Canada -- that would require a plane trip to one of the southern cities... but I'll bet that this applies to many Americans from some of the less populated northern states too. ( and we dont pay for the air ambulance if the doc orders it.)

As far as wait times for a colonoscopy...(sp) . Might have to wait a couple of weeks-- big deal. If the Doc feels its urgent, you get fast tracked. Maybe in a couple of days.
Finally--- there ARE some private clinics in BC (http://www.falsecreekhealthcare.com/) See--- we have a choice..


As previously stated-- The choice is yours. Its not up to a Canadian to tell you which way to go... but please research your comments first on Canadian health care before you start telling the board that Canadian healthcare is substandard. Perfect ??? No-- but neither is the US system.

Cheers
:flowered:
 
#53 · (Edited)
sadly your only link to the USA is Ifish,unfortunately most here are tied of your arrogant babbling..i just assume you keep your tax money so we don't have to listen to how much you like USA yet moved to costs Rica and continue to tell people who actually live here how it is.
I find it comical that when faced with the truth your only thing you can do is lash out at a persons physical location. Most of you bad mouth the president and many aspects of our country, yet here you are stuck with your head in the sand, falling for the great myth of American Exceptionalism. :flag2:
America is not exceptional. The country that was supposedly founded on freedom, committed a terrible genocide on it's indigenous peoples, it's initial economy was built on the enslaving of the blacks. It's political system is corrupt to the core and ran by a few of the wealthiest people on the planet. Pull your head out of the sand, look around and realize we are nothing special, other countries can and do some things better then we do. Except it and move on.
 
#52 ·
It's "riddance" and I still pay for US healthcare so I guess I have some skin in the game. Thanks for the warm support. :flowered:

PS: I'll check my pocket but I haven't seen you in it lately.
sadly your only link to the USA is Ifish,unfortunately most here are tied of your arrogant babbling..i just assume you keep your tax money so we don't have to listen to how much you like USA yet moved to costs Rica and continue to tell people who actually live here how it is.
 
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