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Old 01-23-2007, 08:06 PM   #1
PugtSounDav
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Question Line strength VS drag strength?

Most reels seem to be designed around 'traditional' monofilament?
One designed for say, 20-30# test mono, will usually generate about 10-15# of drag.
Without more drag, what is gained by filling such a reel with 65-80# spectra?

Should we just use the same # test spectra as we did with mono,
and put twice as much yardage on the spool (if that's useful?)

Or use a lighter/smaller reel to hold the same yardage?
(assuming this smaller reel can generate the same amount of drag?)

Or am I missing something?
Thanx, Dave.

P.S. - What is the best ratio of line strength to drag strength?
2-to-1?, 3-to-1?, 5-to-1?

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Old 01-23-2007, 08:12 PM   #2
cutt plug
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Default Re: Line strength VS drag strength?

I personally use braided line for specific reasons. As an example I use Berkley fireline on my steelhead bobber & Jig rod. It's 17 lb test which is more than I really need but I like it because it floats well which helps me present the offer more naturally.

In general I don't put any more pressure on a fish when I'm using braided line than what my pole and reel can handle.

In short braided lines have their place, I prefer mono but use braid where its helpful.
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Old 01-23-2007, 08:30 PM   #3
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Default Re: Line strength VS drag strength?

???
You can adjust your line to the particular fish and locations you are targeting. Your drag may only have 10-15 lbs of pressure but the educated thumb can put on alot more pressure as need. I have the burn marks on mine to prove it. If strenght vs drag was the only factor, those of us who bobber fish #80 tuff would be using 5 pound reels on our bobber rods in order to have 60-80lbs of drag strength. If your are targeting big game fish (marlin or shark) with 4/0 reels then maybe it would matter but for the fishing we do around here this is not a issue.
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Old 01-23-2007, 08:35 PM   #4
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Default Re: Line strength VS drag strength?

As mentioned above, people use braid for many different reasons other than line strength. Sensitivity, floatability, less memory, etc. That being said I really don't like the stuff, but maybe i just haven't given it enough of a chance....general rule of thumb for lbs of drag/lb test of line is no more than 1/3
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Old 01-23-2007, 08:44 PM   #5
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Default Re: Line strength VS drag strength?

The various lines besides breaking point are used for various presentations. Usually presentation over-rules all other issues.

What species are you fishing for? Usually the mouth structure of the fish and type of fight for each fish dictates how or where you set the drag.

Sometimes even the knot you use can make a difference or change the final outcome.

Sometimes it depends on if your "grocery" fishing or "playing" the fish.

Are you trying to get a fish off the bottom before it "rocks" you?

So in the end I'm not really being too much of a wise ass when I say it depends.

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Old 01-23-2007, 09:43 PM   #6
PugtSounDav
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Default Re: Line strength VS drag strength?

Thanx Guys. I understand most? of what you have said.

But, it still seems to me, that spectra type lines are being marketed
in a way that exagerates the practical usefulness of their increased strength.

I understand that they don't stretch as much, are more limp, and float better than mono.
But, 20# braid will offer all of these same qualities. So, why spool up with 80# braid?

As for knot strength, braids seem to be notorious for slipping.
And again, if a uni-knot on 20# braid yields 95% or 19#, and this is sufficient.
Isn't a 76# uni-knot kind of a waste, on a reel with only 10# of drag?

And, using thumb pressure to increase drag, doesn't work very well on spinning reels.

I've been away from fishing for awhile, and so now, when an advertisement, or a salesman,
tells me that I should replace my old 20# mono with 80# braid, and seems to imply
that I'll get a 4X increase in performance, something just smells fishy?

Now, if a manufacturer were to come out with a 16 ounce reel that generates 40# of drag,
then maybe that 80# braid would make sense?

Thanx again, Dave.
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Old 01-23-2007, 09:44 PM   #7
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Default Re: Line strength VS drag strength?

10-15# of pressure?

Holy smokes... I don't own a rod in my entire arsenal that can withstand much more than 5# of load! And that's my biggest salmon meat-stick!

Check it out for yourself. Tie a 5# hand-weight or 5# sack of flour to the end of your stoutest salmon gear and see just what your rod is capable of lifting before it feels like it's ready to explode!

Regardless of mono or braid, set the drag so that if the rod is held vertical, line starts to strip when the rod is about 75% of being fully loaded (100% being the amount of bend that threatens to explode the rod). Judicious thumb pressure determines how much of the remaining 25% reserve power you want to recruit.

If you fear the line will break at that drag setting, you are using too light a line for the rod in question.
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Old 01-23-2007, 10:05 PM   #8
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Default Re: Line strength VS drag strength?

80# spectra line is thicker, thus it floats better, doesn't get wrapped around the end of the rod or tangle as easily, offers better abrasion resistance, and is easier to handle. My choice to use the heavier line has very little, if anything to do with increased breaking strength.
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Old 01-23-2007, 10:22 PM   #9
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Default Re: Line strength VS drag strength?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Full Throttle View Post
80# is thicker,
If I read right and you use a spinning reel that is reason enough to stay with your 20# mono. I was sitting here trying to picture the size spinning reel you would have to own to accomodate 80 to 100 yards of something thicker than 20# mono. WOW!!!!!!! and you are right questioning the drag issue on that. A spinning reels drag is just not the same as level wind in how it is made to work or function effectively.
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Old 01-23-2007, 10:36 PM   #10
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Default Re: Line strength VS drag strength?

Footloose, sorry I should clarify. I'm referring to 80# spectra line, not 80# mono. I don't know the exact thickness, but I'll guess it has the diameter of 12-14 pound mono.
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Old 01-24-2007, 05:30 AM   #11
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Default Re: Line strength VS drag strength?

The higher test braided lines are chosen for qualities other than their breaking strength. That they float without dressing and have near-zero stretch. The line is therefore chosen for a particular reel by diameter, not test. For that reason, 60 to 80 pound test usually works best on a level wind reel as it offers the best handling and casting qualities.

Regarding drag setting, it's imperative in using these lines that the rod, not the line, be the determining factor. It's the line strength, not the fish, that will break a rod (assuming an angler doesn't create an acute angle which can also break a rod.

Finally, for a spinning reel, consider Fireline rather than braid. While I've had satisfactory performance with braids on very large spinning reels, Fireline (which is designed for the spinning reels) will perform better on small to medium spin reels.

This, of course, IMHO and YMMV. Oh, yeah, and

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Old 01-24-2007, 06:06 AM   #12
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Default Re: Line strength VS drag strength?

Quote:
The higher test braided lines are chosen for qualities other than their breaking strength. That they float without dressing and have near-zero stretch. The line is therefore chosen for a particular reel by diameter, not test. For that reason, 60 to 80 pound test usually works best on a level wind reel as it offers the best handling and casting qualities.

Regarding drag setting, it's imperative in using these lines that the rod, not the line, be the determining factor. It's the line strength, not the fish, that will break a rod (assuming an angler doesn't create an acute angle which can also break a rod.

Finally, for a spinning reel, consider Fireline rather than braid. While I've had satisfactory performance with braids on very large spinning reels, Fireline (which is designed for the spinning reels) will perform better on small to medium spin reels.

This, of course, IMHO and YMMV. Oh, yeah, and

~MT
It is all about being able to feel the bite better, no stretch, quicker hooksets, more line capacity for the given line weight. This all equates to more positives than negatives for me.
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Old 01-24-2007, 11:31 AM   #13
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Default Re: Line strength VS drag strength?

Just to throw in other factors to consider for line weight and drag weight.
*Line breakage affected by dry/wet condition.
*Force exerted at the source and measured at the reel can bedifferent because of slack, friction, etc...
*energy absorbsion by the rod can cushion part of the force

You can add additional "drag" to the spinning reel by holding to the spool. Doing so you are applying additional friction to the spool. This way if a fish is pulling too much, more drag is applied to slow it down.

Last edited by luv_2_fish; 01-24-2007 at 11:38 AM.
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Old 01-24-2007, 01:00 PM   #14
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Default Re: Line strength VS drag strength?

Okay, here is the deal on drag versus line weight. First of all, 20lbs of drag will "pin you to the rail". In other words, with the drag set at 20lbs with a drag scale and a fish pulling line out you would be unable to step away from the rail. You are not going to get that kind of drag performance from any salmon reel.

The saltwater accepted practice is that drags should be set at no higher than 30% of the rated line strength. With 20lb line, the drag should be set for 6-7lbs of drag.

There are reels out there that will produce way over 20lbs of drag but you won't see any while salmon fishing.
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