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Old 07-17-2012, 07:57 AM   #1
GLA
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Default Public access to Fed lands

I just read on another site where a congressman Martin Heinrich D from NM introduced a bill to find away to provide access to lands greator than one square mile if they are open for hunting or fishing. Sounds like we need to write our US congressmen and show our support for this bill. It is easy to contact them by email.
I dont want to hear the excuses you didnt do it because you dont have a computer.

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Old 07-17-2012, 08:36 AM   #2
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Default Re: Public access to Fed lands

anytime i see this "D" i have a hard time not thinking that there is some underlying agenda. tax it ban it regulate it restrict it... id have to see some more details... thx for the heads up. ill look into when i get a chance...


*edit*

a quick google search fixed my feelings... ill send an email.

Last edited by Copenhagen; 07-17-2012 at 08:41 AM.
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Old 07-17-2012, 12:20 PM   #3
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I have a hard time supporting such a thing as it takes property rights away from property owners by state enforced easements.


It's a property rights issue and NOBODY should be forced to allow people to 'trespass.'
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Old 07-17-2012, 12:48 PM   #4
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I have a hard time supporting such a thing as it takes property rights away from property owners by state enforced easements.


It's a property rights issue and NOBODY should be forced to allow people to 'trespass.'

But one landowner should be able to keep the access rights to "public" land, so that no one else can access it?

I'm all for land-owner rights, but public land that is locked up by private land-owners isn't really available to the "public" now, is it?

Obviously, this is a complex issue and a constant source of debate. I have always wondered why, for example, one private land-owner who ties up public land should be the only one to use it?? Never made sense to me that this can happen.

It looked to me like the bill would require "agencies" (BLM, USFS, etc?) to 'acquire' easements from the land-owner. I'm reading that as, a fed agency would purchase an easement from the private land-owner. More fair than eminent domain.

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Old 07-17-2012, 12:55 PM   #5
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Default Re: Public access to Fed lands

This should be a stipulation at least in cases where the adjoining property owner has the livestock lease of the landlocked land.
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Old 07-17-2012, 01:09 PM   #6
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But one landowner should be able to keep the access rights to "public" land, so that no one else can access it?

I'm all for land-owner rights, but public land that is locked up by private land-owners isn't really available to the "public" now, is it?

Obviously, this is a complex issue and a constant source of debate. I have always wondered why, for example, one private land-owner who ties up public land should be the only one to use it?? Never made sense to me that this can happen.

It looked to me like the bill would require "agencies" (BLM, USFS, etc?) to 'acquire' easements from the land-owner. I'm reading that as, a fed agency would purchase an easement from the private land-owner. More fair than eminent domain.

Who is stopping you from renting or buying a helicopter to access this public land?


Why should land owners be forced to have easements on their property when it was not that way when they bought the property?

Who is the state of Oregon to tell me that I MUST allow the public on my property?

A lot of these 'land locked' properties are land locked because the state of OR has SOLD surrounding properties to them.
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Old 07-17-2012, 01:49 PM   #7
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Default Re: Public access to Fed lands

This is complete source of irritation to me looking at it from both directions....There are alot of tracks of public land that i would like to access that i can't reach....And my family actually owns some land that effectively cuts off some public land...
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Old 07-17-2012, 02:11 PM   #8
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Who is stopping you from renting or buying a helicopter to access this public land?


Why should land owners be forced to have easements on their property when it was not that way when they bought the property?

Who is the state of Oregon to tell me that I MUST allow the public on my property?

A lot of these 'land locked' properties are land locked because the state of OR has SOLD surrounding properties to them.
First of all, you need to catch up... No one is talking about the State of Oregon. Its a federal bill, pertaining to federal lands: BLM and USFS, primarily.

Two, I'll tell you why - because one land-owner who surrounds public land has sole access to that land, rendering it therefore no longer public. US Taxpayer dollars fund that land for the 'public' to use. In this example, one private individual gains all the benefit from the US taxpayer, while paying no property taxes on it himself.

One land-owner should not benefit from the use of public land without paying taxes on it. Paying taxes comes with owning the land.

I guess the reason this irritates me so much is: why the heck would the Fed Govt create parcels of publicly owned land that are land-locked behind private property???? Makes no sense...


Do you own land that ties up public land? Please tell me where it is, so I can land a helicopter on it.... Seriously. PM me the location of it. Please.

Last edited by 47guy; 07-17-2012 at 03:14 PM.
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Old 07-17-2012, 03:06 PM   #9
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I guess the reason this irritates me so much is: why the heck would the Fed Govt create parcels of publicly owned land that are land-locked behind private property????
Probably the major reason was land grants to facilitate the westward expansion of the US in the 1800's. Land grants were made to the railroads for construction of rail lines throughout the west. The property was given to the railroads in a checkerboard pattern ..... with the Federal Government retaining ownership of the remaining property. Throughout the years, lands were homesteaded, traded, bought, and sold. Today we are living with the unforseen or unintended consequences of the patchwork patterns.
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Old 07-17-2012, 03:09 PM   #10
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Default Re: Public access to Fed lands

Before you guys get going, why doesn't someone do some research on exactly WHY our GOVERNMENT decided it was a good idea to buy up millions of acres of land that otherwise would be private property? It was an unprecidented move at the time, but I'll let you guys do some legwork learning about the deal.

Just sayin'. The REAL issue isn't being addressed here. GOVERNMENT OWNS OUR LAND! The regulate, restricted, sell, etc, etc etc, as they please.

As to this bill, the problem IS NOT the private land owners that surround NF land. Anything that encroaches on their rights should be fought tooth and nail by anyone who values LIBERTY.

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Old 07-17-2012, 03:27 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Orelk6x6 View Post
Before you guys get going, why doesn't someone do some research on exactly WHY our GOVERNMENT decided it was a good idea to buy up millions of acres of land that otherwise would be private property? It was an unprecidented move at the time, but I'll let you guys do some legwork learning about the deal.

Just sayin'. The REAL issue isn't being addressed here. GOVERNMENT OWNS OUR LAND! The regulate, restricted, sell, etc, etc etc, as they please.

As to this bill, the problem IS NOT the private land owners that surround NF land. Anything that encroaches on their rights should be fought tooth and nail by anyone who values LIBERTY.

Okay, I did a little research, and TEEB is right, the (checkerboard) lands were granted (given) to private rail road companies in order to facilitate rail development west in the 1800's...

You might want to check your facts a little. the US Govt didn't BUY up land in the checkerboard fashion. They GAVE it away....

ACTUALLY, the US Govt owned ALL the land, and GAVE some to the rail companies... Same deal with the formation of National Forests, Parks, etc. T. Roosevelt thought it would be a good idea to preserve some lands from development, for the use of the American public. So really, this was all federal land before any of it was private.

Before you get me wrong, here's the deal. I dislike govt interference as much as anyone, and don't try to turn this into some LIBERTY debate.

This is about taxes, who pays 'em, and what is publicly owned and privately owned. I pay federal taxes that fund public lands.

Any private citizen who denies the use of public property to the public is wrong...

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Old 07-17-2012, 03:33 PM   #12
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Default Re: Public access to Fed lands

Why is this any different than the State of Oregon limiting nonresident hunters from hunting on federal land for animals that live on federal land and not state land?
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Old 07-17-2012, 03:42 PM   #13
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First of all, you need to catch up... No one is talking about the State of Oregon. Its a federal bill, pertaining to federal lands: BLM and USFS, primarily.

Two, I'll tell you why - because one land-owner who surrounds public land has sole access to that land, rendering it therefore no longer public. US Taxpayer dollars fund that land for the 'public' to use. In this example, one private individual gains all the benefit from the US taxpayer, while paying no property taxes on it himself.

One land-owner should not benefit from the use of public land without paying taxes on it. Paying taxes comes with owning the land.

I guess the reason this irritates me so much is: why the heck would the Fed Govt create parcels of publicly owned land that are land-locked behind private property???? Makes no sense...


Do you own land that ties up public land? Please tell me where it is, so I can land a helicopter on it.... Seriously. PM me the location of it. Please.
I don't own any land that is land locking any type of public property.

I guess you just defeated yourself since you're going to take my advice in using a helicopter to access land locked public land.

What we don't need is federal, state, or local governments telling property owners what to do with their land. We all have equal opportunities to purchase this land.
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Old 07-17-2012, 03:49 PM   #14
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I guess you just defeated yourself since you're going to take my advice in using a helicopter to access land locked public land.
.

Ha, Ha! I've always thought that was a great idea! If only I could afford a helicopter!
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Old 07-17-2012, 03:58 PM   #15
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Ha, Ha! I've always thought that was a great idea! If only I could afford a helicopter!
What are you trying to say?
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Old 07-17-2012, 04:07 PM   #16
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What are you trying to say?

I always thought it would be cool to use a helicopter to access some previously unaccessible public land.

But I can't afford to buy or rent a helicopter....
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Old 07-17-2012, 04:09 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Orelk6x6 View Post
Before you guys get going, why doesn't someone do some research on exactly WHY our GOVERNMENT decided it was a good idea to buy up millions of acres of land that otherwise would be private property? It was an unprecidented move at the time, but I'll let you guys do some legwork learning about the deal.

Just sayin'. The REAL issue isn't being addressed here. GOVERNMENT OWNS OUR LAND! The regulate, restricted, sell, etc, etc etc, as they please.

As to this bill, the problem IS NOT the private land owners that surround NF land. Anything that encroaches on their rights should be fought tooth and nail by anyone who values LIBERTY.
Hate to break it to you, you live in the United States of America not the great nation of Orelk. None of us actually own the land we live on it is all the property of the US. Now right to use the land is an entire different story. Which. Let of the land here in Oregon had its land rights given to the people by the government.
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Old 07-17-2012, 04:11 PM   #18
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Why is this any different than the State of Oregon limiting nonresident hunters from hunting on federal land for animals that live on federal land and not state land?
Because the regulation of game management is delegated to the state from the fed.
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Old 07-17-2012, 05:34 PM   #19
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I think that they ( the land owners) who have public land locked up should either let people in, Or be forced to trade that locked land for the same amount of land on the nearest out side edge that can be accessed by all!
Just my
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Old 07-17-2012, 06:06 PM   #20
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I think that they ( the land owners) who have public land locked up should either let people in, Or be forced to trade that locked land for the same amount of land on the nearest out side edge that can be accessed by all!
Just my
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Do you own your home or rent?

Do you really own your home or are you still making payments to a finance company?

How would you feel if the government 'forced' you to let me camp in your yard?

How would you feel if the government 'forced' you to trade your land on the nearest outside edge that can be accessed by all?
Meaning that since your property is in "my" way, the government is going to take it from you and give you some land of equal value someplace else in the country. Remember that the government is only going to need to take a 20' wide area the length of your property so that is all you will receive in compensation. In the mean while you will need to move your house because of city/county ordinance that doesn't allow for residential dwelling to be that close to easements.

Do you believe in property rights?

Do you belong to the blue ribbon coalition?
You seem to feel strongly about this landlocked public property issue, seems like maybe you should join. I'm a member. Here's a link for you. http://www.sharetrails.org/ Let me know if you have any questions as I have been a member upwards of twenty years now.
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Old 07-17-2012, 06:22 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by R00ster View Post
Do you own your home or rent?

Do you really own your home or are you still making payments to a finance company?

How would you feel if the government 'forced' you to let me camp in your yard?

How would you feel if the government 'forced' you to trade your land on the nearest outside edge that can be accessed by all?
Meaning that since your property is in "my" way, the government is going to take it from you and give you some land of equal value someplace else in the country. Remember that the government is only going to need to take a 20' wide area the length of your property so that is all you will receive in compensation. In the mean while you will need to move your house because of city/county ordinance that doesn't allow for residential dwelling to be that close to easements.

Do you believe in property rights?

Do you belong to the blue ribbon coalition?
You seem to feel strongly about this landlocked public property issue, seems like maybe you should join. I'm a member. Here's a link for you. http://www.sharetrails.org/ Let me know if you have any questions as I have been a member upwards of twenty years now.
You are so misled. I agree with all on here. Public land is just that, public. It is for all to use, and no one person should be the sole user of the land. It is part of everyday law. If you were to buy property say, to place you business, and the only access is owned by another, they have a legal obligation to grant you easement. This is really the same situation.
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Old 07-17-2012, 06:22 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by R00ster View Post
Do you own your home or rent?

Do you really own your home or are you still making payments to a finance company?

How would you feel if the government 'forced' you to let me camp in your yard?

How would you feel if the government 'forced' you to trade your land on the nearest outside edge that can be accessed by all?
Meaning that since your property is in "my" way, the government is going to take it from you and give you some land of equal value someplace else in the country. Remember that the government is only going to need to take a 20' wide area the length of your property so that is all you will receive in compensation. In the mean while you will need to move your house because of city/county ordinance that doesn't allow for residential dwelling to be that close to easements.

Do you believe in property rights?

Do you belong to the blue ribbon coalition?
You seem to feel strongly about this landlocked public property issue, seems like maybe you should join. I'm a member. Here's a link for you. http://www.sharetrails.org/ Let me know if you have any questions as I have been a member upwards of twenty years now.

OK, I told myself I wouldn't get dragged back down by arguing with you on this, but it looks like your BRC is big on preserving public lands for multi-use....? Is that correct? In other words, opening public lands and opening access to public lands? I think the word "access" is used at least a couple times in their mission statement...

But you seem dead set against the public having access to public lands?

As far as your analogies above go, you are comparing apples to oranges.

The issue is LARGE tracts of rangeland (640 acre parcels, one square mile) that are funded and paid for by US taxpayers, yet are inaccessible to the same US Taxpayers, because a private land owner won't allow the public to access public land.

I do happen to own my own house. Outright. No mortgage. and I pay a TON of property taxes for my house and lot. IF there was a publicly owned camp ground next to my house, and the only way to access it was thru my lot, then YES, I would SELL the governing agency an easement to this campground so you could camp there. That is a more accurate analogy.

Equating BLM rangeland that is land locked to the govt 'forcing' me to allow you to camp in my yard is ludicrous....
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Old 07-17-2012, 06:44 PM   #23
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Hey he might of been a funny one for the wwtp debate a few months back.
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Old 07-17-2012, 06:49 PM   #24
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I always thought it would be cool to use a helicopter to access some previously unaccessible public land.

But I can't afford to buy or rent a helicopter....
I don't know about birds but you can't hunt big game in Oregon for 8hrs after an off airport landing.

So much for the helicopter idea, unless of course they dropped your camp and you stayed awhile.
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Old 07-17-2012, 08:07 PM   #25
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I don't know about birds but you can't hunt big game in Oregon for 8hrs after an off airport landing.

So much for the helicopter idea, unless of course they dropped your camp and you stayed awhile.
so you get dropped off the night before then hunt in the morning? doesn't seem like a big task to overcome
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Old 07-17-2012, 08:41 PM   #26
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so you get dropped off the night before then hunt in the morning? doesn't seem like a big task to overcome
I guess not, I was just saying.
Not sure it is really practical for most of us.
But if I get dropped in by a helicopter I want it to be a black helicopter.
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Old 07-17-2012, 08:50 PM   #27
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I guess not, I was just saying.
Not sure it is really practical for most of us.
But if I get dropped in by a helicopter I want it to be a black helicopter.
Only if you have a tinfoil hunting hat though
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Old 07-17-2012, 09:09 PM   #28
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Who is stopping you from renting or buying a helicopter to access this public land?


Why should land owners be forced to have easements on their property when it was not that way when they bought the property?

How about progress and the better good for society.

Who is the state of Oregon to tell me that I MUST allow the public on my property?

A lot of these 'land locked' properties are land locked because the state of OR has SOLD surrounding properties to them.
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Old 07-17-2012, 09:35 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R00ster View Post
Do you own your home or rent?

Do you really own your home or are you still making payments to a finance company?

How would you feel if the government 'forced' you to let me camp in your yard?

How would you feel if the government 'forced' you to trade your land on the nearest outside edge that can be accessed by all?
Meaning that since your property is in "my" way, the government is going to take it from you and give you some land of equal value someplace else in the country. Remember that the government is only going to need to take a 20' wide area the length of your property so that is all you will receive in compensation. In the mean while you will need to move your house because of city/county ordinance that doesn't allow for residential dwelling to be that close to easements.

Do you believe in property rights?

Do you belong to the blue ribbon coalition?
You seem to feel strongly about this landlocked public property issue, seems like maybe you should join. I'm a member. Here's a link for you. http://www.sharetrails.org/ Let me know if you have any questions as I have been a member upwards of twenty years now.
The state does already. There is always somebody that just has to try to make people mad with comments he himself doesnt understand. In the cities they require sidewalks. I own that land all the way to the street and pay taxes on it and am responsible to keep it cleaned and maintained so joe public can walk on my property and I cant do jack about it. Nobody ever mentioned once camping or taking away property of anyone.
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Old 07-17-2012, 10:30 PM   #30
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Not sure it is really practical for most of us.
That is not private property owners fault.

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Old 07-17-2012, 10:47 PM   #31
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Hate to break it to you, you live in the United States of America not the great nation of Orelk. None of us actually own the land we live on it is all the property of the US. Now right to use the land is an entire different story. Which. Let of the land here in Oregon had its land rights given to the people by the government.

Oh...my....God.

This country is doomed.

Basic understanding of who gives government the power to do ANYTHING has been lost on millions and millions of people in this country. What a disaster.
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Old 07-17-2012, 10:51 PM   #32
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Okay, I did a little research...

Oh, you did huh?

In TWENTY-ONE MINUTES!!!!!!!!

Let me guess, you're #1 source of information is CNN, Fox News or the Today show with roughly 20 minutes of Google searches thrown in occasionally when you're trying to support an opinion you've already formed?

Gimme a break man. That is embarassing.

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Old 07-17-2012, 10:55 PM   #33
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The problem is not where the PRIVATE land is, it's where the PUBLIC land is. If you want access, maybe the case should be made that the public should purchase land to allow access to public land?

Private property should never be encroached upon. You are treading on VERY thin ice giving our government that type of authority.

Instead of writing bills that take away our freedom and liberty, why don't they have us vote on whether we want our tax dollars spent on buying access to public land?

Lots of reading to do here as well.

Gonna take more than 21 minutes.

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Old 07-18-2012, 04:11 AM   #34
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Old 07-18-2012, 05:01 AM   #35
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Default Re: Public access to Fed lands

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Originally Posted by Orelk6x6 View Post
If you want access, maybe the case should be made that the public should purchase land to allow access to public land?

.

This is the issue, and this is what has been suggested. Allow the public (fed govt agencies) to purchase easements from the private land-owner.

What I do not understand, in your "liberty" argument, is this:

A private landowner owns let's say 20,000 acres, and through this ownership subsequently ties up another 20,000 acres of BLM land. He allows no public access to this 20,000 acres of public land and therefore has sole access to it.

Isn't he trampling on the rights and 'liberty' of the taxpaying public who paid taxes to have access on that land?

an even worse example is the same landowner who already has an easement (ie - BLM maintained road) going thru his property, to the BLM land. And he has gated it. This is blatant. A land-owner has now taken away the rights of the public to use a publicly maintained road, paid for with taxpayer dollars...


Look, I get it. I don't blame a landowner for not wanting to let a bunch of slobs onto his property, even if it is just to cross. and I don't believe in the nanny-state where the fed govt tries to take away all of our liberty, etc.

But in this example, a significant amount of public property is tied up by one single land-owner who is allowed to gain financially, or recreationally, by essentially keeping this land to himself without paying taxes.

Explain to me how this land-owner isn't trampling on your liberty as a US taxpayer, assuming you actually are in the 53% of Americans who actually pay taxes....
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Old 07-18-2012, 05:02 AM   #36
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Default Re: Public access to Fed lands

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Only if you have a tinfoil hunting hat though
Exactly
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Old 07-18-2012, 08:38 AM   #37
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So if a forest fire broke out on a piece of public property surrounded by private land, is it the tax payer or the private property owner that foots the bill?

How does the government get access to the property to do their assessments?

Was there not a case in recent years from coming from Yachats regarding beach access? So maybe, at least in Oregon, precedent is already set for access to isolated public lands.

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Old 07-18-2012, 05:08 PM   #38
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Default Re: Public access to Fed lands

The government has already has reciprocal easements with neighboring landowners. Both parties can grant access to whoever they want for reasons outlined in the easements.

In most cases the easements read that roads that go through private property can be gated and closed to the general public at anytime. Government employees and anyone who is granted access to government land by them, will given keys to the locks or they will put their own lock on. In other words, the private landowner can't deny access to government employees or their contractors.

The whole idea that someone who owns land which surrounds public land is the only one allowed to use it is wrong. Government employees have access as do anyone they allow for reasons outlined in the easement.

Public land is almost a misnomer. It may be owned by the government but that doesn't mean the public has unlimited access.
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Old 07-18-2012, 05:15 PM   #39
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Default Re: Public access to Fed lands

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Originally Posted by 47guy View Post
This is the issue, and this is what has been suggested. Allow the public (fed govt agencies) to purchase easements from the private land-owner.

What I do not understand, in your "liberty" argument, is this:

A private landowner owns let's say 20,000 acres, and through this ownership subsequently ties up another 20,000 acres of BLM land. He allows no public access to this 20,000 acres of public land and therefore has sole access to it.

Isn't he trampling on the rights and 'liberty' of the taxpaying public who paid taxes to have access on that land?

an even worse example is the same landowner who already has an easement (ie - BLM maintained road) going thru his property, to the BLM land. And he has gated it. This is blatant. A land-owner has now taken away the rights of the public to use a publicly maintained road, paid for with taxpayer dollars...


Look, I get it. I don't blame a landowner for not wanting to let a bunch of slobs onto his property, even if it is just to cross. and I don't believe in the nanny-state where the fed govt tries to take away all of our liberty, etc.

But in this example, a significant amount of public property is tied up by one single land-owner who is allowed to gain financially, or recreationally, by essentially keeping this land to himself without paying taxes.

Explain to me how this land-owner isn't trampling on your liberty as a US taxpayer, assuming you actually are in the 53% of Americans who actually pay taxes....

In your example of a private landowner using a BLM maintained road to haul their property (logs in most cases), the private landowner would be required to pay the BLM road maintenance fees to compensate them for the use.
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Old 07-18-2012, 05:17 PM   #40
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Default Re: Public access to Fed lands

I don't know how it works in OR, but in WA the state never sells lands that results in landlocking other state lands...they retain easement if necessary to retain access.

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Who is stopping you from renting or buying a helicopter to access this public land?


Why should land owners be forced to have easements on their property when it was not that way when they bought the property?

Who is the state of Oregon to tell me that I MUST allow the public on my property?

A lot of these 'land locked' properties are land locked because the state of OR has SOLD surrounding properties to them.
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Old 07-18-2012, 05:21 PM   #41
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Default Re: Public access to Fed lands

Problem is it doesn't work the other way around....private landowners insist on access across public land that landlocks their private land....and they act like it's their right to gain access!

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Originally Posted by Orelk6x6 View Post
The problem is not where the PRIVATE land is, it's where the PUBLIC land is. If you want access, maybe the case should be made that the public should purchase land to allow access to public land?

Private property should never be encroached upon. You are treading on VERY thin ice giving our government that type of authority.

Instead of writing bills that take away our freedom and liberty, why don't they have us vote on whether we want our tax dollars spent on buying access to public land?

Lots of reading to do here as well.

Gonna take more than 21 minutes.

Last edited by waterbobber; 07-18-2012 at 05:24 PM.
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Old 07-18-2012, 07:17 PM   #42
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Default Re: Public access to Fed lands

This is a HUGE topic that has been debated for decades: Eminent domain.

Briefly, something that might get you pointed in the right direction. Take a look at the precedent set for land East of the Mississippi. Then notice the great difference with land West of the Mississippi. Ask yourself: Why is this? How did this happen?

Then go do some research, please.

Our government has known for quite some time that in a truly FREE society that the land is owned by the PEOPLE, not the government. Our federal ownership is now over ONE THIRD the land mass in our 50 states!!!

Additionally, take note at how well the government manages...well...anything. It's an inefficient, bureaucratic mess that nearly always benefits some special interest group, stifling any progress or development. That special interest group MAY be a hunting organization and provide you some access to BLM land 1 or 2 weekends per year, but more likely will be some corporation or private business that will profit of the condemation of land by the government. Of course, some politicians will get a healthy campaign donation as a "thank you".

Do you REALLY want this?

Our fight should ALWAYS be to restrain eminent domain at all levels of government and at the very least, you guys need a basic understanding of the right to own private property and how forfeiture of this right can only lead to a less free society.

I'm done with this one. Just gonna be spinning my wheels with some of you guys anyway.
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Old 07-18-2012, 08:38 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orelk6x6 View Post
This is a HUGE topic that has been debated for decades: Eminent domain.

Briefly, something that might get you pointed in the right direction. Take a look at the precedent set for land East of the Mississippi. Then notice the great difference with land West of the Mississippi. Ask yourself: Why is this? How did this happen?

Then go do some research, please.

Our government has known for quite some time that in a truly FREE society that the land is owned by the PEOPLE, not the government. Our federal ownership is now over ONE THIRD the land mass in our 50 states!!!

Additionally, take note at how well the government manages...well...anything. It's an inefficient, bureaucratic mess that nearly always benefits some special interest group, stifling any progress or development. That special interest group MAY be a hunting organization and provide you some access to BLM land 1 or 2 weekends per year, but more likely will be some corporation or private business that will profit of the condemation of land by the government. Of course, some politicians will get a healthy campaign donation as a "thank you".

Do you REALLY want this?

Our fight should ALWAYS be to restrain eminent domain at all levels of government and at the very least, you guys need a basic understanding of the right to own private property and how forfeiture of this right can only lead to a less free society.

I'm done with this one. Just gonna be spinning my wheels with some of you guys anyway.
Just out of curiosity what was your stance on Wallowa-Whitman Travel Plan?
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Old 07-18-2012, 09:13 PM   #44
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Default Re: Public access to Fed lands

Im not going to get into a huge discussion of this.
But I know of 2 huge parcels in Washington that have been blocked by private landowners.One owns about 5 acres . The access runs through about 1500 acres of state land. He gated the road. And the state refuses to enforce it.
Another has landlocked about 600 acres. State land. Lake in the middle of it. His excuse for not letting us walk across the road that he gated? Well, it would make the guys he leases his POND to angry(duck hunters). The truth is, not only is he locking off public hunting land, he is leasing the hunting rights to it also. He is a big taxpayer in that county, so the state refuses to enforce.
In both cases there is access recorded, but no enforcement, so the landowner deprives the public of land, and profits from it.

So while I agree that government shouldnt be heavy handed, maybe this lproperty should be sold to the highest bidder.. At least someone has to pay the taxes on it then.
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Old 07-18-2012, 10:08 PM   #45
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Default Re: Public access to Fed lands

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Just out of curiosity what was your stance on Wallowa-Whitman Travel Plan?
Unfamiliar with it. Feel free to provide references via PM anytime. I'm interested in reviewing them. If warranted, I will then complete my own investigation and then form an opinion about the matter.

It will take longer than 21 minutes, so don't wait up.
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Old 07-19-2012, 07:29 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orelk6x6 View Post
Unfamiliar with it. Feel free to provide references via PM anytime. I'm interested in reviewing them. If warranted, I will then complete my own investigation and then form an opinion about the matter.

It will take longer than 21 minutes, so don't wait up.
In essence it reduced the amount of vehicle access to public lands. Figuring how much your on this one, you would have been all flag waving on that issue as well
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Old 07-19-2012, 08:09 AM   #47
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Default Re: Public access to Fed lands

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anytime i see this "D" i have a hard time not thinking that there is some underlying agenda. tax it ban it regulate it restrict it... id have to see some more details... thx for the heads up. ill look into when i get a chance...


*edit*

a quick google search fixed my feelings... ill send an email.
And every time I see that "R" I have a hard time not thinking that they want to steal it, sell it or give it to a cronie for a kickback. I guess we are both prejudiced.
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Old 07-19-2012, 11:06 AM   #48
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Default Re: Public access to Fed lands

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And every time I see that "R" I have a hard time not thinking that they want to steal it, sell it or give it to a cronie for a kickback. I guess we are both prejudiced.
Actually it's not "prejudice" when the think-tanks that develop policy for the "R"s specifically advocate selling off the Federal property (ie publically owned) to private ownership.

Here's an excerpt from the Cascade Policy Institute -

"This third area, debt retirement, has received relatively little attention. Debt retirement through the liquidation of assets is seldom regarded as an opportunity to successfully get this country back on solid financial footing, but it is viable. The U.S. owns many assets that could be liquidated for these purposes, but none is as obvious as the vast 653 million acres of public lands. This equates to 28.7% of the 2.27 billion acres of land in the U.S. Most of these lands are heavily concentrated in just 12 western states, one of which is Oregon."

This policy paper goes on to say even National Parks should be sold off.

Nothing is as extreme or as potentially damaging to our Northwest culture and heritage as the policies promoted by Cascade Policy Institute and other thinktanks like them.
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Old 07-19-2012, 04:17 PM   #49
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Default Re: Public access to Fed lands

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Originally Posted by R00ster View Post
Do you own your home or rent?

Do you really own your home or are you still making payments to a finance company?

How would you feel if the government 'forced' you to let me camp in your yard?

How would you feel if the government 'forced' you to trade your land on the nearest outside edge that can be accessed by all?
Meaning that since your property is in "my" way, the government is going to take it from you and give you some land of equal value someplace else in the country. Remember that the government is only going to need to take a 20' wide area the length of your property so that is all you will receive in compensation. In the mean while you will need to move your house because of city/county ordinance that doesn't allow for residential dwelling to be that close to easements.

Do you believe in property rights?

Do you belong to the blue ribbon coalition?
You seem to feel strongly about this landlocked public property issue, seems like maybe you should join. I'm a member. Here's a link for you. http://www.sharetrails.org/ Let me know if you have any questions as I have been a member upwards of twenty years now.
Hay if it is fair for Them to lock it in, Then That is fair?? But you know as well as every one else on knows it is not fair! So I am saying MAKE IT FAIR!!!!
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