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Old 04-25-2012, 05:47 AM   #1
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Default Kokanee Power Derby Anchoring

Fellow Kokanee Power Members

I have been anxiously awaiting Kokanee Powers decision on my request to alter their derby rules on anchoring.

I started to register for the GP tournament and noticed the anchoring rule was still on the registration but had been changed to all capitol letters.

I quickly deduced the no anchoring rule was most definetely still in effect.

While I am dissappointed by the results of the membership vote taken I also love and will defend this country for its democracy and will accept any democratically made decision
My wife and I joined KP at the Sortsman Show this year, paying two years dues in advance. We were looking forward to meeting many of you at the derby's this year and adding to our monetary support of KP by offerring our physical help as well.

Unfortunately we have always anchored up in the fishing we done over the last 50+ years and have no desire to fish in any other manner.

I do and will always hold the belief any legal method of fishing should be allowed in any fishing derby held in Oregon but will graciously accept the memberships right and decision to set their own rules.

Be safe out there, have loads of fun and a great derby season to all with lots of big kokes on the scales for everyone

Marshworm

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Old 04-25-2012, 08:19 AM   #2
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Default Re: Kokanee Power Derby Anchoring

Will some one please explain to me why anchoring is not allowed in the derby? Do they catch bigger fish anchoring? I personally have not noticed any difference between jigging while anchored or trolling.
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Old 04-25-2012, 10:34 AM   #3
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Default Re: Kokanee Power Derby Anchoring

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Originally Posted by alaska 41 View Post
Will some one please explain to me why anchoring is not allowed in the derby? Do they catch bigger fish anchoring? I personally have not noticed any difference between jigging while anchored or trolling.
I believe that there have been issues with the potential to create a "chummed area" creating an unfair advantage for those who know how to do it. Also with 40-60 boats on the water an anchored boat over a school of fish makes those fish inaccessible to the other 39-59 boats who could troll through in succession and all have the opportunity to catch fish from that school. Myself I voted to allow anchoring even though I have no skills when it comes to jigging and you will always find me on the troll. Current technology actually creates a loophole in that rule. Some newer trolling motors have a "wind anchor" function that you set and your motor will stay within like 3-5 feet of its set position indefinitely so this rule is now more of a discrimination against those who cannot afford or are unwilling to buy a new trolling motor. Thank you for joining Marshworm, despite this issue with your preferred method of catching these terrific fish this is a wonderful organization with great people dedicated to preserving and enhancing our inland fisheries.
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Old 04-25-2012, 10:43 AM   #4
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Default Re: Kokanee Power Derby Anchoring

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Originally Posted by alaska 41 View Post
Will some one please explain to me why anchoring is not allowed in the derby? Do they catch bigger fish anchoring? I personally have not noticed any difference between jigging while anchored or trolling.
Alaska41
The only reasons I have heard or been told by fellow KP members are the following:

1) Chumming is likely to occur from an anchored boat
2) Its just the way its done in KP of California derby's

In my opinion there are other factors at play here, however as I stated in my post it is a KP derby and the members have the right to restrict the methods of fishing used by the particapants.

I do respect that right even though I don't agree with it.

Hope this helps Alaska41, if not then suggest you ask other KP members they might have more info.

Good fishing to you

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Old 04-25-2012, 11:14 AM   #5
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Default Re: Kokanee Power Derby Anchoring

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc_Rhen View Post
I believe that there have been issues with the potential to create a "chummed area" creating an unfair advantage for those who know how to do it. Also with 40-60 boats on the water an anchored boat over a school of fish makes those fish inaccessible to the other 39-59 boats who could troll through in succession and all have the opportunity to catch fish from that school. Myself I voted to allow anchoring even though I have no skills when it comes to jigging and you will always find me on the troll. Current technology actually creates a loophole in that rule. Some newer trolling motors have a "wind anchor" function that you set and your motor will stay within like 3-5 feet of its set position indefinitely so this rule is now more of a discrimination against those who cannot afford or are unwilling to buy a new trolling motor. Thank you for joining Marshworm, despite this issue with your preferred method of catching these terrific fish this is a wonderful organization with great people dedicated to preserving and enhancing our inland fisheries.

Doc,
Thanks for your insight and information. Your point of the wind anchor function of trolling motors is well stated, taken and agreed with.

It is a highly discrimnatory against a wide range of anglers not just those of us who prefer to anchor up. For example those that don't own a boat but bank fish?. I just hate to see such a fine organization with high goals and the desire to do big things for the inland fisheries in Oregon send this type of message to the fishing public in general.

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Old 04-25-2012, 11:30 AM   #6
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It seems like their rule that all odfw regs are followed takes care of the chumming concern.

Someone posted accusations that ice cubes were being used to bolster weight so I anticipated ice becoming a banned substance given the logic that someone could cheat by chumming on anchor so it is banned.

Good reminder for why I don't join.
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Old 04-25-2012, 11:43 AM   #7
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Default Re: Kokanee Power Derby Anchoring

KPO took a survey of members to get their opinion on the issue of anchoring. The results were overwhelming in favor of keeping the anchoring ban in place.

An email to any of the KPO board members would have answered this question. Also a subscribing to our free news letter would have keep fishermen informed on what is happening with KPO. We have some very exciting projects with ODFW planned for this year.
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Old 04-25-2012, 12:20 PM   #8
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Default Re: Kokanee Power Derby Anchoring

[QUOTE=marshworm;4099290]Alaska41
The only reasons I have heard or been told by fellow KP members are the following:

1) Chumming is likely to occur from an anchored boat
2) Its just the way its done in KP of California derby's

In my opinion there are other factors at play here, however as I stated in my post it is a KP derby and the members have the right to restrict the methods of fishing used by the particapants.

I do respect that right even though I don't agree with it.

Hope this helps Alaska41, if not then suggest you ask other KP members they might have more info.


Thanks for the info on the anchoring. I know it is illegal to chum so that never entered my mind that explains why. Some one said stuffing fish with ice cubed. When in Alaska I entered several derbies with literally hundreds of people. At the weigh in the fish were weighed and then cut open. If there was any thing in the fish that was illegal you were band permanently from the derby. Lets all stay by the KP rules and have fun.
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Old 04-25-2012, 12:30 PM   #9
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Default Re: Kokanee Power Derby Anchoring

Quote:
Originally Posted by FallRiverGuy View Post
KPO took a survey of members to get their opinion on the issue of anchoring. The results were overwhelming in favor of keeping the anchoring ban in place.

An email to any of the KPO board members would have answered this question. Also a subscribing to our free news letter would have keep fishermen informed on what is happening with KPO. We have some very exciting projects with ODFW planned for this year.
FRG
Being as I raised this question last fall on Ifish I thought it appropriate to finish the discussion here.

Thank you for your explanation of KPO taking a survey of members and their overwhelming decision to keep the anchoring ban in place. However it does not erase or eliminate the right we all have to respectfully discuss this or any other issue and offer answers to questions when they come up on Ifish.

Marshworm
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Old 04-25-2012, 12:38 PM   #10
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Default Re: Kokanee Power Derby Anchoring

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverBullets View Post
just curious...are black boxes, scent/scent dispensers allowed while trolling in derbies?
SB
Well, applying a little logic and common sense... to a good question.

If they are legal to use by the ODF and W regs....and there is no rule against them in the KP derby rules..then the answer would be yes...wouldn't it?

Interesting concept lower one of these gizmo's down and disperse scent while you troll...naw... that don't happen

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Old 04-25-2012, 12:50 PM   #11
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Default Re: Kokanee Power Derby Anchoring

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Originally Posted by The Pew View Post
It seems like their rule that all odfw regs are followed takes care of the chumming concern.

Someone posted accusations that ice cubes were being used to bolster weight so I anticipated ice becoming a banned substance given the logic that someone could cheat by chumming on anchor so it is banned.

Good reminder for why I don't join.
Pew,
I joined KP because they do a lot of good.

I never thought that if the members really thought about it they would see the damage the no anchor, tether or bank fishing is doing to hinder the growth of their organization they would remove the rule.

Guess I was wrong or they just think differently on the subject than I do.

Marshworm

PS. Pew Secretly between me and you, last fall the kentmiester and I got into a discussion on jigging vs. trolling and he issued a challenge to me to fish a derby and prove him wrong. I agreed providing he "level" the playing field and do away with the anchoring rule. he's probably breathing a big sigh of relif over the outcome of the survey.
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Old 04-25-2012, 01:34 PM   #12
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Default Re: Kokanee Power Derby Anchoring

Ok Brian.. Just pictures from now on.

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Old 04-25-2012, 02:43 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kokaneekid;
And two it opens the door for illegal fishing practices...
If you eliminated every possible method of illegal fishing I bet nobody would be left fishing. Why does singling out one potential give you such assurance that no cheating is occurring?

Given that you don't even see jigging as a viable option for success, I would think you would gladly welcome the jiggers.
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Old 04-25-2012, 03:11 PM   #14
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Default Re: Kokanee Power Derby Anchoring

Seems to me that if there was enough interest in a jigging competition that someone or a group of people should organize it and have one! Just a thought

I for one could care less and believe that there are just as many ways to illegally catch fish trolling as jigging. If not more. But I don't think forcing a group of people to do something different is really worthwhile. You're never gonna please everyone I'm goin fishin.
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Old 04-25-2012, 03:17 PM   #15
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Default Re: Kokanee Power Derby Anchoring

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Pew View Post
It seems like their rule that all odfw regs are followed takes care of the chumming concern.

Someone posted accusations that ice cubes were being used to bolster weight so I anticipated ice becoming a banned substance given the logic that someone could cheat by chumming on anchor so it is banned.

Good reminder for why I don't join.
yea really
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Old 04-25-2012, 04:42 PM   #16
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Just pictures Brian.

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Old 04-26-2012, 08:21 AM   #17
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Wow Kid,
Thanks for setting me straight. You don't know how much I appreciate your fact based information.

There for a minute I was thinking KP had this bonehead opinion that jigging and chumming automatically go hand in hand, that me and my family are more likely to cheat at a tournament than you and your family, and this crazy idea I had that the majority of KP members are an elitist, not to be questioned crowd, why I'm exceptionally thankful you settled that question. I'm also thankful of your offer to clue me in as to why I should stop catching fish in unlikely spots at GP that have been contributing to my familys nurishment for years, and your advise on Wickiup not being worth traveling too if your going to jig has just saved me a butt load of money in traveling money.

Now that I am done with the sarcastic humor Let me be absolutely clear. I do absolutely support KP's activities in enhancing the inland fisheries as was illustrated by my 2 year payment of dues up front.
The only problem I have with KP is when they, as a group, say to another individual member or not, if you want to fish in our derby, you must not only change the way you fish, but also swallow your life long values, and accept ours. For you and other members to constantly make profiling type statements about jiggers is unacceptable to me.

Bottom line Kid, If KP has enough members and cash on hand to do everything they want to do then hey congrats that is fantastic ...But if they don't, and board members find themselves shouldering the workload and are having trouble getting volunteers to help out at derby's, shows and all the great events they do for enhancement of the inland fisheries then they ought to seek out individuals that can bring desire and passion to their organization regardless of how they fish.
For some reason I have the feeling there still is an as yet unmentioned reasons for the anchoring rule.

Have a great derby season. I was hoping for the opportunity to get to know all of you and share what little knowledge I have on jigging but hey as the smartest man I ever met once told me,

"All that you'll ever have in this world that is worth anything son...are your core values...regardless of what others think, say or ask you to do...don't ever give them up"

Be safe out there Kid, clean lots of fish and have copious amounts fun
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Old 04-26-2012, 09:17 AM   #18
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I would like to point out one thing on jigging to the Kid. I do a lot of jigging and trolling. And I am pretty good at both. But Kid have you ever tried jigging with a 10 MPH wind, it does not work with lures at 40 to 60 feet. This is where the anchor comes in. And by the way on a calm day when your boat is setting still you can still chum and jig if you want to break the law. My chum is a piece of corn on the hook and no more. If I cant catch them then I am doing something wrong.
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Old 04-26-2012, 09:33 AM   #19
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[QUOTE=kokaneekid I wouldn't recommend jigging at Green Peter, or Wickiup any time of the year, and after early June I wouldn't recommend it at Crescent or Odell.

Can you please explain why no jigging? I have caught hundreds of fish at GP in July and August jigging. And done real good at Odell the same time of year. There is a knack to jigging just like trolling. Some people are good at trolling others are good at jigging, I just happen to learn both.
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Old 04-26-2012, 12:09 PM   #20
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I'll take it with a grain of salt Brain.

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Old 04-26-2012, 01:10 PM   #21
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Man I didn't really mean to twist your shorts.
Number one I have never posted not one picture of a fish on this forum.
Number two I only ask what did you mean by the following statement.

[QUOTE=kokaneekid I wouldn't recommend jigging at Green Peter, or Wickiup any time of the year, and after early June I wouldn't recommend it at Crescent or Odell.

Don't think for a minute I don't know what it takes to put on something like KP.
I am involved in putting on the biggest model engine show in the North West in Portland. This makes KP look real small. Any way I merely ask a couple of simple questions. You guys do a great job at KP. No hard feelings here.

PS and by the way I never accused any one of chumming.
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Old 04-26-2012, 02:00 PM   #22
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[QUOTE=alaska 41;4100692]Man I didn't really mean to twist your shorts.
Number one I have never posted not one picture of a fish on this forum.
Number two I only ask what did you mean by the following statement.

[QUOTE=kokaneekid I wouldn't recommend jigging at Green Peter, or Wickiup any time of the year, and after early June I wouldn't recommend it at Crescent or Odell.

Don't think for a minute I don't know what it takes to put on something like KP.
I am involved in putting on the biggest model engine show in the North West in Portland. This makes KP look real small. Any way I merely ask a couple of simple questions. You guys do a great job at KP. No hard feelings here.

Alaska41,
You did not twist the Kids shorts. You were merely asking good logical common sense questions that the Kid had difficulty or could not or did not want to respond to directly, hence the long drawn out description of what it takes to put on a derby, which KP does a very good job at, and is complimented for doin so. No fault on either side.

I like you, am asking logical and rational questions about anchoring in an attempt to have a logical discussion on the subject. Defending ones position against logic is extremely difficult at best and normally is only attempted by those that can logically defend their position.

Knock em dead at the derby's kid, and maybe one day you and I can have a logical discussion on the subject
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Old 04-27-2012, 08:23 AM   #23
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I'll take it with a grain of salt Brain.
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Old 04-27-2012, 09:21 AM   #24
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Old 04-27-2012, 11:14 PM   #25
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Default Re: Kokanee Power Derby Anchoring

I know nothing about chumming, so maybe someone can help me with a few questions I have.

1. Does chumming attract the biggest 5 fish or is it still just random luck to catch bigger fish?

2. Wouldn't it be easier to chum a larger area (like say from a "moving" boat) and just keep turning your boat through the chummed area?

2a. Would that guarantee you the 5 biggest fish or is it still just random luck?

3. At these Derby's, do the people jigging get to use the same bathrooms as the trollers?

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Old 04-28-2012, 04:16 AM   #26
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Default Re: Kokanee Power Derby Anchoring

4. Will I be able to use the dam launch (rutted
drop) and parking lot if the koke derby folks
are using that area for their cluster?

I jig on anchor so I won't be part of their derby
but would still like to launch there. I don't run a
motor and launching at Thistle is more of a row
than my forearms can handle. I'm getting old.
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Old 04-28-2012, 07:21 AM   #27
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For the record:
My experience with Marshworm and his ilk has been that he likes to stir the pot. There are others who like to heckle as well. A poll was taken by KPO and the membership decided unanimously; no jigging at anchor. That is all that is needed to end the discussion. The "membership" decided. End of discussion.
If Marshworm and those few other individuals spent as much time helping people as they do harassing, stirring the pot and being snarky to other forum members, this would be a much better place to hang out and trade information. Unfortunately that is not the case and these few individuals continue on with their negative behavior because they thrive on dysfunction. Sure, they hide behind kidding or at least that is what they call it; but if you look back over the last few years, you will see consistent behavior that is obviously very negative. If you do not bite, they will go away which would be a good thing IMHO.
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Old 04-28-2012, 08:09 AM   #28
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Default Re: Kokanee Power Derby Anchoring

So...can I launch and park at the dam on derby day?
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Old 04-28-2012, 08:20 AM   #29
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For the record:
My experience with Marshworm and his ilk has been that he likes to stir the pot. There are others who like to heckle as well. A poll was taken by KPO and the membership decided unanimously; no jigging at anchor. That is all that is needed to end the discussion. The "membership" decided. End of discussion.
If Marshworm and those few other individuals spent as much time helping people as they do harassing, stirring the pot and being snarky to other forum members, this would be a much better place to hang out and trade information. Unfortunately that is not the case and these few individuals continue on with their negative behavior because they thrive on dysfunction. Sure, they hide behind kidding or at least that is what they call it; but if you look back over the last few years, you will see consistent behavior that is obviously very negative. If you do not bite, they will go away which would be a good thing IMHO.
Cannon I am sure you are pointing the finger at me as well as Marshworm. I thought this was a forum to trade stories and help people. I merely ask what was the reason for not anchoring, I got a answer. The Kid made this statement and I merely ask for a answer to clarify it. If you cant answer your statement then don't make it. So am I wasting my time jigging in July and August,but they keep getting on my hook.

[QUOTE=kokaneekid I wouldn't recommend jigging at Green Peter, or Wickiup any time of the year, and after early June I wouldn't recommend it at Crescent or Odell.
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Old 04-28-2012, 08:29 AM   #30
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So...can I launch and park at the dam on derby day?
There would be no reason that you could not launch at the dam. KPO does not own the lake or control the access in any way.
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Old 04-28-2012, 08:34 AM   #31
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[quote=alaska 41;4102727]Cannon I am sure you are pointing the finger at me as well as Marshworm. I thought this was a forum to trade stories and help people. I merely ask what was the reason for not anchoring, I got a answer. The Kid made this statement and I merely ask for a answer to clarify it. If you cant answer your statement then don't make it. So am I wasting my time jigging in July and August,but they keep getting on my hook.

[QUOTE=kokaneekid I wouldn't recommend jigging at Green Peter, or Wickiup any time of the year, and after early June I wouldn't recommend it at Crescent or Odell.[/quote]
You know as well as I do that this has been debated for years with no winner. There is no winning answer. You know as well as I do that you can jig year around. It is better at certain times of the year. So why beat a dead horse? Why keep bringing up things that are pointless to discuss? Are you bored and have nothing better to do than stir the pot? Go mow the lawn or do something productive instead of continuing a debate that is dead and gone. Sounds to me like you just want to argue about something which takes me back to my contention that some just like to stir the pot. You qualified that in your earlier statement.
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Old 04-28-2012, 08:44 AM   #32
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[quote=Cannon;4102747]
Quote:
Originally Posted by alaska 41 View Post
Cannon I am sure you are pointing the finger at me as well as Marshworm. I thought this was a forum to trade stories and help people. I merely ask what was the reason for not anchoring, I got a answer. The Kid made this statement and I merely ask for a answer to clarify it. If you cant answer your statement then don't make it. So am I wasting my time jigging in July and August,but they keep getting on my hook.


You know as well as I do that this has been debated for years with no winner. There is no winning answer. You know as well as I do that you can jig year around. It is better at certain times of the year. So why beat a dead horse? Why keep bringing up things that are pointless to discuss? Are you bored and have nothing better to do than stir the pot? Go mow the lawn or do something productive instead of continuing a debate that is dead and gone. Sounds to me like you just want to argue about something which takes me back to my contention that some just like to stir the pot. You qualified that in your earlier statement.
I am not stirring the pot in any way I just ask a simple question. I you cant stand the heat then get out of the kitchen.
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Old 04-28-2012, 09:32 AM   #33
Jennie@ifish
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Default Re: Kokanee Power Derby Anchoring

This thread has been closed. Please try to get along with your fellow members, here. This kind of thing kinda ruins it for others.
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