What new regs would you like???

[rob allen]

Please state your ideas only no arguing over those ideas. Let people just have their opinions and let it be. Want to discuss it start another thread, yes that's hypocritical on my part but I am just curious what people are thinking should be done and don't want to detract from that.

here are a couple for me.

1. The Grand Ronde from wild cat bridge to State line. No angling from a floating divice.

2. On fishing trips where fish are to be retained an angler must keep the legal fish he catches until the daily limit is retained, after that the angler is done for the day. Anglers practicing strict catch and release may only keep fishing until two daily limits have been caught and released. This will require an additional and FREE catch and release card for salmon steelhead and sturgeon.

[BlindSquirrel]

Don't have different hook rules for salmon lure (spinner) hooks on the Columbia River for below and above Bonneville. I fish both places, and I would like to not have to convert store bought lures from trebles to singles. Either make spinner trebles ok everywhere on the Columbia, or require singles everywhere...

[Snopro]

Ban the use of crippled herring, buzz bomb, Nordic type jigs in rivers.

[garyk]

1. Non-tribal commercial fishing for salmon and sturgeon in the mainstem Columbia River is banned: these commercial fisheries are conducted only in off-channel Select Area Fisheries.

[Seasick]

(1) no changes to salmon\steelhead\sturgeon seasons, limits or rules without a full weeks notice

(2) use of bait anywhere

(3) use of artificial lures\jigs anywhere

(4) angle for any fish any time day or night durning season

(5) angling license covers shellfish too\no duplicate charges

(6) don't differentiate between clipped and un-clipped fish. There is no wat to tell if they are really native anyway.

(7) make the rules the same in all zones for the same fish

(8) when you buy an angling license you should get the S.S.S.Halibut card free because you already payed for the license to fish. You do your tag for their records but you shouldn't have to pay for the privilage of giving them data. By the way, last time I asked a fish commission employee, and not a typical fish checker, Oregon was 3 years behind in counting. Washington was current.

You ever notice that you can buy a hunting license but the only thing you can hunt without a sperate and additional tag is a rabbit and I am not even sure about that anymore. Fishing is going the same way. People acutally sit around and come up with creative ways to make you pay for something you have a right to do. You will be taxed, but they will call it a fee, on everything you want to do. Tax you to own a boat, haul a trailer, buy the gas, put it in the water, and Newport is so poor they have to charge you a dollar to park your trailer. That is after you pay the $6 to put your boat in, and $25 dollars a night for you caper\trailer. Just try to keep up with the "fees" and remember every one of those is another tax.

I have two boats and a fith wheel but I just get tired of being gouged every direction.

I am just thinking that you buy (at whatever price) your angling (fishing) license so you get to fish for whatever the regs say is OK.

[07clackapramowner]

1.Ocean coho- first two you catch, you keep, clipped or not.
2.No fishing for Chum Salmon in Oregon.
3.Fall chinook fishing opens Nov 1. on Coastal streams above tidewater.
4.Anglers over 14 must pass a fish identification test to fish for Salmon and Steelhead.
5. Anglers are allowed to keep two fish, clipped or not, in the willamette and its tribs above willamette falls.
6. Anglers must report all released Salmon and Steelhead
7. Anglers must return all harvest cards or have to face additional charges for the next years harvest cards.

Just a few

[native steelie]

i kinda like the you keep the first couple fish you catch idea clipped or not. ive caught 30+ steelhead so far this season and i have not been able to keep one. i have not caught a single hatchery yet. so to my my card should have been full by now

[David Johnson]

Don't have different hook rules for salmon lure (spinner) hooks on the Columbia River for below and above Bonneville

some lures and especially some spinners will not fish as effectively with singles. They need a treable for balance.

keep the first couple fish you catch idea clipped or not.

For ocean and Columbia. This would cut down on thousands of fish being wasted

[SilverFly]

Circle hook only regs on tributarys with hatchery salmon runs. I realize it would take some getting used to for some since setting the hook is extremely ineffective when using them. Strange as it might sound, the fish has to take a circle hook into it's mouth, - requiring the "fisherman" to actually practice the art angling to get it there (shocking, - I know.)

[Bonneville Dan]

1. No more new or increases in fees that pay for nothing more than a ballooning bureaucracy to administer them (if even that).

2. Authorize (and encourage) Makah Indians to harvest tasty marine mammals in Columbia River.

3. Postpone start of ocean coho retention until they've put on a few pounds. Ditto to DJ's suggestion of keeping first two regardless of fins, and in years when returns are sparse, keep zero until they've arrived to their home tribs where selective harvest can be applied.

4. Reduce targeting of breeder sturgeon (subject already thoroughly covered previously).

5. Enforce existing laws before adding more. (Writing up a few more tickets at popular snagging areas would more than cover the pay for the enforcement crew, and when applied to streams with low wild fish returns offers a significant investment in allowing wild stocks to rebuild. Guide Shop hole for example.)

[kwik karl]

1.Ocean coho- first two you catch, you keep, clipped or not.
2.Can use as many rods as you like, but cannot catch over your limit.
3.Sturgeon fishing open 7 days a week with a lower yearly limit.
4.NO GILL NETS IN THE COLUMBIA..........!!!!!!!

[dawhunt]

Originally Posted by garyk

1. Non-tribal commercial fishing for salmon and sturgeon in the mainstem Columbia River is banned: these commercial fisheries are conducted only in off-channel Select Area Fisheries.

That would be a great start and just let the indians net for subsistance only instead of selling them with a set limit on how many they can ctach and then monitor them !!!!

I don't care about barbless hooks they work fine its a lot easier to release a fish on barbless hooks,the only time i use more then one hook is when I'm pulling cut plug's. OOPS thats a lie I do have two hooks on my kwik fish there siwash.

All I know is we keep getting less and less and its costing us more and more,all I want to do is be able to fish a full season instead of being cut
back every yr.I'm happy with the limits we have now don't need more fish
now we're going to take a hit on springers and a cut on sturgeon also but they still let the gillnetters net them.I'm about ready to sell everything and use the money to fish in alaska every yr at least I'd get my moneys worth.

Can't afford and Oregon license anymore they finally priced me out of an out of state license I know lots of other guys not buying one next yr either is this ODFW's way of getting more income, well guess what its not going to work.Wonder what that will do to tourism can't help but believe its really going to hurt the guides and other bus. that depend on the fishing season's for there income.

oh well guess I'm done ranting so flame on folks.

Bob

[Bonneville Dan]

Yeah, why is it that government agencies don't have to abide by competitive product pricing like the private sector? Oh yeah - they have a legalized monopoly and business failure doesn't result in anybody losing their jobs, but rather the converse (adding more heads and salary increases). End result is what Dawhunt articulated.


Dan

[GorgeCaster]

If we are going to have to wait for the Tribes to get their share allow fishing above Bonneville from boats all the way to The Dalles Dam. Seems only fair to me. Discontinue commercial netting below Bonneville to protect sturgeon. Have hatcheries sell surplus stock to stores so the states and hatcheries will have required funding for operation costs.

[Wreckless]

>NO mainstem gillnets, NONE!

>some upstream closures on smaller rivers, to protect spawners

> ONE (maybe 2) sturg per year limit with a TIGHT slot limit. Again NO NETS!

AND------THIS SHOULD BE EASY: Allow the Point of Sale machine to print a license that states what "endorsements" I have. It's kind of a pain carrying a combo license, harvest card, shellfish license, sea duck permit, brant permit, pheasant permit...............I understand that we need seperate tags for big game, but it seems like the number of permits could be reflected on the combo license.

Oh yeah, create an ocean flattener so we can get to the TUNA! more in July!!!!

[crobarr]

1. - 2 different salmon/steelhead tags. only get 1 or the other. columbia/inland and coastal. kinda like west vs east dear tags, but without the drawings.

2. - coastal rivers and bays/estuarys open same time.

3. - no more hatchery tags. fill it up and your done.

[DriftR]

1. Close Salmon River (Lincoln county) from intake at hatchery down river to 101 Bridge during low water periods.
2. Allow two rods per person with the purchase of a tag where the monies received go directly to Oregon fish hatcheries.
3. Second the idea of first two ocean caught coho to be kept.
4. Reduce albacore daily limit to 5 albacore per angler per day with a 10 total for the season.

[Jerry Dove]

I have to agree on the first two Coho, clip or not. Also lower limit on tuna now before we have to for lack of tuna.

[YellowJacket]

Open Sturgeon fishing back to 7 Days a week, but tighten up the Min-Max numbers in size.

[gweedo#1]

Originally Posted by SilverFly

Circle hook only regs on tributarys with hatchery salmon runs. I realize it would take some getting used to for some since setting the hook is extremely ineffective when using them. Strange as it might sound, the fish has to take a circle hook into it's mouth, - requiring the "fisherman" to actually practice the art angling to get it there (shocking, - I know.)

Thats not true...I watched a fly guy line springer after springer on circle hooked flys...Both head and body...He had the art of flossing down to a T.

[tatered]

Originally Posted by gweedo#1

Thats not true...I watched a fly guy line springer after springer on circle hooked flys...Both head and body...He had the art of flossing down to a T.

circle hooks I the flossers weapon!

[freespool]

1. No LCR mainstem commercial fishery, relegate commercials to the SAFE areas.
2. End commercial crabbing in bays and estuaries.
3. No limits on exotic invasive species.

[tatered]

Originally Posted by freespool

1. No LCR mainstem commercial fishery, relegate commercials to the SAFE areas.
2. End commercial crabbing in bays and estuaries.
3. No limits on exotic invasive species.

I like your style

I'll 1 up you! Reward for Walleye, bass and the like in streams with salmoniods much like the squaw fish

plus open season for commorants

[rob allen]

here are a couple more.

Close Ocean coho fishing because anglers cannot conduct this fishery without harming large numbers of unclipped fish.

have all rewards for invasive species taken from hatchery dollars

[Crayfin]

Originally Posted by rob allen

here are a couple more.

Close Ocean coho fishing because anglers cannot conduct this fishery without harming large numbers of unclipped fish.

have all rewards for invasive species taken from hatchery dollars

I was wondering when you were gonna slip something ridiculous in....

[JustCallMeDave]

I would like to see a regulation where, if you post more than five comments online bashing the ODFW/WDFW, their employees, the rules they create, or the job that they do, and you do not get off your butt to do something to make it better (you know, like go to a meeting or submit a constructive letter to them), that you lose your fishing/hunting license for a year.

[porter]

In the ocean and Columbia river I would like to see it go to a first two fish rule. I know we would have killed less wild fish if we would have just kept two fish and left the water. I really wonder about the health of the fish that are hooked and never brought to the boat. I would also do away with barbless hooks.

[Bait O' Eggs]

Ability to clean tuna at sea, if a game checker cant ID a tuna loin they shouldnt be employed by the state anyway

Any violation of hunting or fishing that results in a $500 fine, is an automatic ban for life on all hunting and fishing

The ability to catch your 6 halibut on one day instead of making people have to make 6 trips on 6 days to get their 6 fish.

The ability to keep ground fish and halibut on the boat at the same time Having to come to port unload your halibut and go back out for groundfish is a waste of time and energy.

Allow sport ocean crabbing year round

[Grain of Salt]

Close down the wall at Oregon City...just make it illegal to bring a sturgeon more than 10 feet out of the water

[smalldog]

limit all anglers to one tag per year.....
Ocean fishing for salmon only...no fishing in rivers for salmon
All chinook are closed.

[SPL]

Originally Posted by freespool

1. No LCR mainstem commercial fishery, relegate commercials to the SAFE areas.
2. End commercial crabbing in bays and estuaries.
3. No limits on exotic invasive species.

Now, those rules I can get behind!

[SilverFly]

Originally Posted by gweedo#1

Thats not true...I watched a fly guy line springer after springer on circle hooked flys...Both head and body...He had the art of flossing down to a T.

A true circle hook MUST encounter an edge for the point to dig in. While it is possible to floss a fish in the mouth with a circle hook, fins and the tail are the only fouling points outside the mouth. The main body of the fish is smooth and it is virtually impossible for a circle hook to dig in there.

And yes, there are some fishermen who use fly rods to floss or even snag fish. Thanks, for throwing that in my face just because I'm a flyfisherman complaining about snagging. BTW, I own, and use, several casting and spinning outfits.

If this guy was fouling fish "Both head and body" then he wasn't using a true circle hook, or he had put an offset in it. I've been experimenting with circle hooks for several years now in situations where the fish are concentrated. While have have fouled a few on the tail or dorsal, I have NEVER hooked one on the body. A friend who is one of the best fly fishermen I know, now exclusively fishes them when pursuing chum salmon in Puget Sound and rivers. If he were flossing or fouling on circle hooks, - he wouldn't use them, and would quit fishing anyway.

As offensive as I might find flossing (lining fish in the mouth) from a sporting standpoint, even that would be preferable to what some rivers have degraded to when the salmon show up. There has got to be a better way than plunking a corky every square yard off the bottom of a hole packed with salmon. I could tolerate a few flossers since it would at least still be possible for people to fish other methods around them. How the heck do you float a gob of eggs through a hole where fifty idiots are standing shoulder to shoulder whipping rods back ever few seconds, and multiple fish are being dragged in sideways? If these yahoos were forced to use circle hooks the "whipping" would be largely ineffective and they might actually have to try fishing for a change.

As long as we have hatchery fish, they need to be harvested. All I'm trying to do is suggest solutions that will allow people access to those fish in a manner that still has some semblance of sport to it. The most effective regulations are the simplest ones. As much as people might hate being forced to use a different style of hook, there's no room for discussion if a gamie catches you with the wrong kind. I also believe attitudes would change when people started hooking most fish legally.

[Wild Chrome]

Mandatory release of wild coastal coho hens and wild coastal fall chinook hens.

[Seefood Man]

Originally Posted by Bonneville Dan

1. No more new or increases in fees that pay for nothing more than a ballooning bureaucracy to administer them (if even that).

To Late Dan, As a license dealer I received a notice that all licenses will be increasing. Add $2.00 per-day license. It goes up from there. Doesn't make any sense to increase rates in this economy. I asked if the commercial rates were going up and all I got was a "I don't know"

2. Authorize (and encourage) Makah Indians to harvest tasty marine mammals in Columbia River.

3. Postpone start of ocean coho retention until they've put on a few pounds. Ditto to DJ's suggestion of keeping first two regardless of fins, and in years when returns are sparse, keep zero until they've arrived to their home tribs where selective harvest can be applied.

4. Reduce targeting of breeder sturgeon (subject already thoroughly covered previously).

5. Enforce existing laws before adding more. (Writing up a few more tickets at popular snagging areas would more than cover the pay for the enforcement crew, and when applied to streams with low wild fish returns offers a significant investment in allowing wild stocks to rebuild. Guide Shop hole for example.)

[Wiggley1]

Allow the capture and removal of invasive species by any means. As in Pike minnows (squaw fish) lower the bounty to a buck and don’t worry if I use a frog gaff to kill them.

[Radke]

A full refund of licenses and fees when I can't catch or kill something for which I bought said license.

[beachboi26]

Originally Posted by JustCallMeDave

I would like to see a regulation where, if you post more than five comments online bashing the ODFW/WDFW, their employees, the rules they create, or the job that they do, and you do not get off your butt to do something to make it better (you know, like go to a meeting or submit a constructive letter to them), that you lose your fishing/hunting license for a year.

I want to comment on this but what I might say would probably boot me off of this for good

[tatered]

Originally Posted by SilverFly

A true circle hook MUST encounter an edge for the point to dig in. While it is possible to floss a fish in the mouth with a circle hook, fins and the tail are the only fouling points outside the mouth. The main body of the fish is smooth and it is virtually impossible for a circle hook to dig in there.

And yes, there are some fishermen who use fly rods to floss or even snag fish. Thanks, for throwing that in my face just because I'm a flyfisherman complaining about snagging. BTW, I own, and use, several casting and spinning outfits.

If this guy was fouling fish "Both head and body" then he wasn't using a true circle hook, or he had put an offset in it. I've been experimenting with circle hooks for several years now in situations where the fish are concentrated. While have have fouled a few on the tail or dorsal, I have NEVER hooked one on the body. A friend who is one of the best fly fishermen I know, now exclusively fishes them when pursuing chum salmon in Puget Sound and rivers. If he were flossing or fouling on circle hooks, - he wouldn't use them, and would quit fishing anyway.

As offensive as I might find flossing (lining fish in the mouth) from a sporting standpoint, even that would be preferable to what some rivers have degraded to when the salmon show up. There has got to be a better way than plunking a corky every square yard off the bottom of a hole packed with salmon. I could tolerate a few flossers since it would at least still be possible for people to fish other methods around them. How the heck do you float a gob of eggs through a hole where fifty idiots are standing shoulder to shoulder whipping rods back ever few seconds, and multiple fish are being dragged in sideways? If these yahoos were forced to use circle hooks the "whipping" would be largely ineffective and they might actually have to try fishing for a change.

As long as we have hatchery fish, they need to be harvested. All I'm trying to do is suggest solutions that will allow people access to those fish in a manner that still has some semblance of sport to it. The most effective regulations are the simplest ones. As much as people might hate being forced to use a different style of hook, there's no room for discussion if a gamie catches you with the wrong kind. I also believe attitudes would change when people started hooking most fish legally.

I don't think anyone is throwing anything in your face......you need to chill out man! I think gweedo was simply stating that circle hooks would not be the end all to snagging.

As far as the snagging idiots go, don't fish the Salmon river or the Hospital hole.

[gweedo#1]

Originally Posted by JustCallMeDave

I would like to see a regulation where, if you post more than five comments online bashing the ODFW/WDFW, their employees, the rules they create, or the job that they do, and you do not get off your butt to do something to make it better (you know, like go to a meeting or submit a constructive letter to them), that you lose your fishing/hunting license for a year.

If that were the case then the ODFW/WDFW would sink to the bottom of the ocean cause 90% of the tag holders would be suspended....Which could be a good thing.....Reconstruction...

[AlseaAssassin]

I'm going to take some heat from this proposal but what the heck here it goes.... If any of you have trout fished the Deschutes from Warm Springs to Trout Creek in the late spring/early summer you know how over-crowded it can be. Why not allow angling from a floating device (from the opener of trout to July 31st) to open up more water and reduce the number of pile ups in the good drifts? I think this would spread out effort and as long as its C and R I don't think it would be detrimental to the trout population. I can see alot of potential problems if the regulation is extended into steelhead season but for trout it would be sweet! It's kick fly fishing out of a boat on the South Fork of the Snake and the Klickitat.

[rob allen]

no more rediculous than allowing sport harvest of a listed species which many on this thread are advocating.

[Wild Chrome]

Originally Posted by AlseaAssassin

I'm going to take some heat from this proposal but what the heck here it goes.... If any of you have trout fished the Deschutes from Warm Springs to Trout Creek in the late spring/early summer you know how over-crowded it can be. Why not allow angling from a floating device (from the opener of trout to July 31st) to open up more water and reduce the number of pile ups in the good drifts? I think this would spread out effort and as long as its C and R I don't think it would be detrimental to the trout population. I can see alot of potential problems if the regulation is extended into steelhead season but for trout it would be sweet! It's kick fly fishing out of a boat on the South Fork of the Snake and the Klickitat.

Ever since ODFW started changing the Deschutes rules in favor of the fish, the fish and fishermen have flourished. To start to reverse that process would be a very slippery slope, which we've already been down.

[CATCH AND EAT]

Originally Posted by rob allen

here are a couple more.

Close Ocean coho fishing because anglers cannot conduct this fishery without harming large numbers of unclipped fish.

have all rewards for invasive species taken from hatchery dollars

Really?

Ban all spey rods as they take up to much room on the bank. How about that one? If you are fishing

Coho fishing can be done just fine with C&R. When is the last time you have been out Rob? Pretty easy to release those little buggers unharmed out there.

[Wreckless]

Good call Tatered on the Bird season.

Open a season on Commorants with a 5-7 bird limit

AND

Seperate Mergansers from the duck limit & allow 7 bonus SAWBILLS!!!


MMmmmmmm! Fish duck pepperoni!!!!

[parker]

No retention of any wild steelhead in WA state in any waters.

[chrome obsession]

Make regs easier to read and understand......

[rob allen]

Irie everyone else was ignoreing me so it was either respond or delete the thread, which i considered doing

[kelso]

I know this has been a fish thread, so pardon me for changing it to a hunting issue. But seeing dozens of spike deer that might bring 30 lbs. of meat to the freezer. How about this. To the WDFW, I think a 2 pont min. on all deer (westside) would be a great idea. Lets allow the spike deer to grow. And if thats to much to ask, then how about anyone over 18 has a 2 point min.

[rob allen]

Originally Posted by CATCH AND EAT

Really?

Ban all spey rods as they take up to much room on the bank. How about that one? If you are fishing

Coho fishing can be done just fine with C&R. When is the last time you have been out Rob? Pretty easy to release those little buggers unharmed out there.

Catch and Eat I have never ocean coho fished. but when numerous guys come on here and talk about all the coho that they believe they kill while ocean fishing i tend to think there is something to that.. frankly i don't understand it but i take their word for it and if they are truly killing that many in order to get their limit then whatever methods they are using should be banned

[Bobberman]

Originally Posted by rob allen

Irie everyone else was ignoreing me so it was either respond or delete the thread, which i considered doing

you can delete a thread?

[12pulls]

No bait in tribs for salmon, trout, or steelhead.

Fishing with fish eggs banned.

1 fish limit

No fishing of more than one rod at a time per angler

Mandatory jail time for all those who enjoy to complain about others fishing styles. This one I have included for a bonus rule.

[tatered]

Originally Posted by kelso

I know this has been a fish thread, so pardon me for changing it to a hunting issue. But seeing dozens of spike deer that might bring 30 lbs. of meat to the freezer. How about this. To the WDFW, I think a 2 pont min. on all deer (westside) would be a great idea. Lets allow the spike deer to grow. And if thats to much to ask, then how about anyone over 18 has a 2 point min.

Oregon general season is fork or better.

[First Light Bite]

Allow night fishing for Salmon and Steelhead in streams where hatchery fish are available and prevalent.

[rob allen]

Originally Posted by Bobberman

you can delete a thread?

I think the originator of a thread can delete it unless something has changed

[Bait Bucket]

Require sinking ropes on crab traps.

Approve the return of fish guts to the rivers where they belong (not within __ yards of boat ramps).

Tabulate on-line regulations to make them easier to understand.

[Birdbrains]

Why limit the float fishing from Bogan's to the stateline? Plenty of fish to go around. I always give respect to fly fisherman on the river. If I am using a float it is because the water it too low to drift. Just trying to hook a fish like any other guy. No disrespect.

[SilverFly]

Originally Posted by tatered

I don't think anyone is throwing anything in your face......you need to chill out man! I think gweedo was simply stating that circle hooks would not be the end all to snagging.

As far as the snagging idiots go, don't fish the Salmon river or the Hospital hole.

My apologies to Gweedo. Probably do need to chill, but I might be a tad defensive having had the "flyfishermen are the best flossers" thing thrown in my face before. While (sadly) there might be some truth to that statement, there are also times when some folks jump to the conclusion that it's flossing, - when in fact flyfishing is simply the most effective technique for the conditions (sometimes unbelievably so.)

The only real end all to snagging would be to shut the rivers down when the fish are in thick. Not only would that be wasting a valuable (and needed) resource, - it would present a greater hazard to wild stocks. Just saying that circle hooks would make foul-hooking more difficult, - possibly enough so to motivate people to change techniques. Seems like a step in the right direction to me.

[JerryM]

1) First two Ocean Coho are kept.
2) Minimum size limit for Halibut of 30" (Its not asking much).
3) Stop LOP and antlerless hunts for deer and elk in those coastal units where numbers have declined since the mid-nineties.
4) Buy one cougar tag, get a free one each time you check a cat in for the year.
5) Split salmon seasons for coastal streams into two parts. Before October 1st the catch limits and numbers are set by projections. After October 1st they are set by real numbers observed in the rivers during a required ODFW survey.

[Yarni]

Originally Posted by rob allen

Please state your ideas only no arguing over those ideas. Let people just have their opinions and let it be. Want to discuss it start another thread, yes that's hypocritical on my part but I am just curious what people are thinking should be done and don't want to detract from that.

here are a couple for me.

1. The Grand Ronde from wild cat bridge to State line. No angling from a floating divice.

2. On fishing trips where fish are to be retained an angler must keep the legal fish he catches until the daily limit is retained, after that the angler is done for the day. Anglers practicing strict catch and release may only keep fishing until two daily limits have been caught and released. This will require an additional and FREE catch and release card for salmon steelhead and sturgeon.

In regards to your #1.

No floating device, why? Is it because they are too effective? I prefer to drift light with artificial bait, but when the water is so low and slow you are limited to drift water. I would really like to know why you make such a suggestion, just curious.

No indicators then...

Do you consider floating line a "floating device"?

[DanFrench]

A regulation on keeping dark silvers and nooks! I mean to many of these fish are being taken when all its going to do is hurt the return of any fish.