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Old 11-11-2008, 03:28 PM   #1
mandinga
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Default Traeger grills, now proudly made in China

How do you avid Traeger fanatics feel about this move?


They have recently laid off most of the US workforce because production has been moved overseas to China.

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Old 11-11-2008, 03:29 PM   #2
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Default Re: Traeger grills, now proudly made in China

Great!!! They will have lead based coating and we are all going to get lead poisoning.
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Old 11-11-2008, 03:40 PM   #3
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Default Re: Traeger grills, now proudly made in China

The meat smoking power of the Traeger can mask that mouth numbing lead flavor no problem.

Last edited by Cutting Point; 11-11-2008 at 03:45 PM.
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Old 11-11-2008, 03:48 PM   #4
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Default Re: Traeger grills, now proudly made in China

SAD...
There goes my gift to self, for the Christmas. Thx for heads up.
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Old 11-11-2008, 03:59 PM   #5
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Default Re: Traeger grills, now proudly made in China

Just curious to when they started production in China or are they just starting production. Bought mine 2 yrs ago and wondering if I now have lead poisoning?
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Old 11-11-2008, 04:46 PM   #6
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Default Re: Traeger grills, now proudly made in China

what a bummer, i guess mine is a relic!
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Old 11-11-2008, 05:13 PM   #7
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Default Re: Traeger grills, now proudly made in China

Sad state of affairs. I remember in the early 80's when Traeger was a small shop in Mt Angel making wood burning central heating units. I always wanted one of those. Great home grown Oregon business. Caught up in business discisions, bringing this country to its knees.
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Old 11-11-2008, 05:18 PM   #8
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Default Re: Traeger grills, now proudly made in China

The Traegers have been made in China for about 6 months now but the NW has only been having the Lil' Tex models for about 2 months and the Texas style units for about a month. You can tell the difference by how they are assembled. If the legs are welded on they are NW built and if they are bolted on then they are foreign born.

They have only moved the Jr., Lil' Tex and Texas style over there so far. If you are still interested in a NW built model then the Lil' Tex Elite, Professional and the Pig are your only choices at this point. They are supposed to be coming out with a larger residential model sometime soon.

Not happy about it but not much we can do about it either. I have heard many reasons but they all don't matter.

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Old 11-11-2008, 05:29 PM   #9
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Default Re: Traeger grills, now proudly made in China

Now THAT is really sad!
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Old 11-11-2008, 05:52 PM   #10
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Default Re: Traeger grills, now proudly made in China

Well, scratch Traeger from my wish list! I can understand offshore sourcing in a highly competetive, eat or be eaten market like shoes. But a pellet fired bar-b-q without much competition? Bad move Traeger!
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Old 11-11-2008, 05:58 PM   #11
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Default Re: Traeger grills, now proudly made in China

Wow, I'll have to second guess my decision too. Was thinking about getting one, but now, I don't know.
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Old 11-11-2008, 06:11 PM   #12
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Default Re: Traeger grills, now proudly made in China

very sad indeed...............................
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Old 11-11-2008, 06:55 PM   #13
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Default Re: Traeger grills, now proudly made in China

It's only so they can stuff more $$$$ in their pockets. Typical.
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Old 11-11-2008, 07:10 PM   #14
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Default Re: Traeger grills, now proudly made in China

Quit whining, lead tastes really sweet.

Lead acetate has a sweet taste, which has led to its use as a sugar substitute throughout history. The ancient Romans, who had few sweeteners besides honey, would boil must (grape juice) in lead pots to produce a reduced sugar syrup called defrutum, concentrated again into sapa. This syrup was used to sweeten wine, and to sweeten and preserve fruit. It is possible that lead acetate or other lead compounds leaching into the syrup might have caused lead poisoning in anyone consuming it.[1]
Pope Clement II died in October 1047. A recent toxicologic examination[citation needed] of his remains confirmed centuries old rumors that the Pope had been poisoned with lead sugar. It is, however, not clear whether he was assassinated or not, as lead sugar in those times was often used as a cure for venereal diseases.
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Old 11-11-2008, 08:38 PM   #15
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Default Re: Traeger grills, now proudly made in China

There goes my purchase of a Traeger. I always try not to buy anything made in China. It can be real difficult to buy products with my concept. Sorry to hear this, very sad news. A great product is now made inferior.
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Old 11-11-2008, 08:46 PM   #16
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Default Re: Traeger grills, now proudly made in China

From now on, when I see a jar of their rub with a Treager family member photo, I'm going to draw a mustache on it! Boo! Hiss!
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Old 11-11-2008, 09:04 PM   #17
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Default Re: Traeger grills, now proudly made in China

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Originally Posted by Iwish View Post

They have only moved the Jr., Lil' Tex and Texas style over there so far. If you are still interested in a NW built model then the Lil' Tex Elite, Professional and the Pig are your only choices at this point. They are supposed to be coming out with a larger residential model sometime soon.

Ron
I bought mine when you could go to the factory and pick one up.

Look at the other models that Traeger makes. Now's your chance! Get one of the models that isn't from China. It might help keep the USA worker's employed.

If this helps any... When I was buying pellets the other day I asked about Traeger's being made in China. The sales person was disappointment too about them being made in China. They said the feed back on the ones from China, is that the welding is better.

So there ya go.......

Traegerized meals are the best.

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Old 11-12-2008, 03:35 AM   #18
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Default Re: Traeger grills, now proudly made in China

You guys are kidding right?????

I guess none of you buy at Wal-mart , Bi-mart ......or just about any mart....???

Did you guys just land on planet earth? How about your cars? Anybody drive? How about a computer or does anybody own a TV?

You guys are too much.

Happy for Traeger for making a profit. But it is too bad they could not afford to use America labor. It is our own fault, for allowing these special trade agreements in the first place. Period.

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Old 11-12-2008, 05:34 AM   #19
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Default Re: Traeger grills, now proudly made in China

Guys profit is not a dirty word. You cannot blame a company for moving somewhere else if costs are cheaper. How is a company supposed to stay in buisness if it does not make a profit?

Dont get me wrong I am not thrilled to see all the jobs go overseas. We have done this to ourselves and only have us to blame. A company will not survive by paying someone 20 bucks an hour with bennies and 401k for screwing a couple parts together.
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Old 11-12-2008, 06:11 AM   #20
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Default Re: Traeger grills, now proudly made in China

No problem.

Traeger has always had a price point (i.e., cost) problem. $2,000 for a full-sized BBQ? What percent of the public will pay that?

In the past the price issue restricted the market coverage. Under ownership by the family, Trager was never more than a minor regional player. That, and a basketful of cash, is ultimately why the Traeger family sold to the venture capitalists.

So if the "new" Traeger owner wants to become more competitive (read --- reduce price), insert a dealer/distributor level (to increase market scope), or recoup its investment, then it has to decrease costs while keeping quality high. And that gets done by reducing costs of manufacture. Helloooo China!

U.S. jobs are thereby lost at the manufacturing level, but many more are added at the distributor/dealer/retail sales levels all around the country and the continent. Total jobs associated with making and marketing Traeger products will increase dramatically. Basically --- the welders lose, while the white collar folks win. And that is the story of stateside merchandising in the modern world.

Good for Traeger. My hope is that everyone can own one. A marvelous product.
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Old 11-12-2008, 06:54 AM   #21
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Default Re: Traeger grills, now proudly made in China

I can see why Traeger went with the decision to move some of their models overseas. Those models are directed for the lower budget so as to make them affordable so everyone can sample "Traeger". Sad move but it eventually will go there if the door is open. I was involved in a bicycle mfg business and we were known for our "American made" frames. But they were too expensive. We had the best welders/fabricators/designers to come up with masterpeices for the competitive world. More and more people heard of the bikes but couldnt afford them........... We looked into china as our competitors had and could see profits and affordability (thats what everyone wants) But in the long run we decided against it........ we no longer make the bicycles because they weren't affordable to everyone so we peaked out.... no growth. This isnt true for some avenues of business but for most, sadly it is.
The target market isnt always the wealthy and there are alot more lower income familys than wealthy. My hats off to Traeger for keeping the business going, but I too am saddened by the thought of going overseas.
I guess you could say it's "Supply and Demand.... or Give and Take, or Pull and Push"
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Old 11-12-2008, 07:50 AM   #22
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Default Re: Traeger grills, now proudly made in China

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You guys are kidding right?????

I guess none of you buy at Wal-mart , Bi-mart ......or just about any mart....???

Did you guys just land on planet earth? How about your cars? Anybody drive? How about a computer or does anybody own a TV?

You guys are too much.

Happy for Traeger for making a profit. But it is too bad they could not afford to use America labor. It is our own fault, for allowing these special trade agreements in the first place. Period.

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Old 11-12-2008, 08:48 AM   #23
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Default Re: Traeger grills, now proudly made in China

Didn't pellet burning knockoffs hit the market more than a year ago?
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Old 11-12-2008, 09:53 AM   #24
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Default Re: Traeger grills, now proudly made in China

It's sad but I haven't been able to justify the cost of one to make a purchase. My hundred dollar kettle I got from Fred Meyers has served me just fine for over six years.
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Old 11-12-2008, 09:57 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by wishin View Post
Well, scratch Traeger from my wish list! I can understand offshore sourcing in a highly competetive, eat or be eaten market like shoes. But a pellet fired bar-b-q without much competition? Bad move Traeger!

Remember guys you can hunt around and find plenty of Used Made in the USA models, as long as they carry the Warantee and the end result is the same, I'd still buy one! Look at it this way, maybe they will be a bit more affordable!
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Old 11-12-2008, 06:22 PM   #26
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Default Re: Traeger grills, now proudly made in China

I could never justify the cost and certainly won't be paying the same high price tag now for a lesser version.

I picked up a virtually new Master Built smoker (basically a mini-fridge with a thermostat & timer with electric element for like $30. One bag of Traeger pellets lasts me like a year. Never looked back and results are our fantastic with that alongside the Ducane.

BTW - Just cuz everything else is made in China doesn't mean we have to:

- Like it
- Shut up about it or
- Buy it
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Old 11-12-2008, 07:10 PM   #27
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Remember guys you can hunt around and find plenty of Used Made in the USA models, as long as they carry the Warantee and the end result is the same, I'd still buy one! Look at it this way, maybe they will be a bit more affordable!

Yea but why would you continue to buy the pellets from a company that threw away its work force for a higher profit margin?
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Old 11-12-2008, 07:58 PM   #28
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Default Re: Traeger grills, now proudly made in China

I hate to see the manufacturing moved over seas but I'm sure they had their reasons???? Good , bad or indifferent.

Treager Industries has been very good to a number of local charities as well as supporting our fisheries issues through donations and such over the years. I personally won't forget the monies they help raised for more then one of my passionate organizations that I support. I thank them and hope they will continue. They have also supported my unit after the sale and provided A+ support and follow up.

Before you throw a company under the bus I would at least give them the opportunity to explain why the decision was made.

Also how many of you guys throwing criticism out have an over seas car in your driveway, a computer with a Asian name, a fishing reel from outside the U.S or drink a Heineken or a Corona on the weekends. Pretty easy to throw rocks by typing on a computer.

Don't blame Treager for their decision. Look at your government and how they have changed the US from a manufacturing leader to one big service industry. Didn't happen last week. It's been a spiral headed down for 30+ years and isn't going to fix it's self in the next four.

I support you in buying U.S. but maybe 9 billion Chinese wanted to do their BBQ pork cooked on a Treager and it allowed them to tap that market?
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Old 11-12-2008, 10:12 PM   #29
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Default Re: Traeger grills, now proudly made in China

As a manager for one of the last major manufactures that is produces domestic products in our field, it really is nice to here that most people are upset about products being made in China that could be made here in the USA.

On the other hand........ While it makes good water-cooler talk, it's almost impossible to stay a domestic producing company nowadays. My company is more than 100 years old, and we are one of the last ones in the US that still pour our own bronze, cast iron, ductile iron, and downcast copper at our US plants. Almost universally our competition has gone at a minimum to having castings done over-seas and then assembling products here, or more likely just to producing everything over seas. The only way we hold onto domestic specs is due to the military, and specifying engineers that actually realize good products should be going into hospitals, schools, and commercial infrastructure. These products cost more to make, and they cost more to buy.

The US citizen has DEMANDED Chinese product because they want the lowest price point available. Along with that price point comes overall lower quality, less company responsibility, and a greater likelihood that a product will be unsafe.

How many rod manufactures or reel manufactures actually make their product in the US? How many USED to, but now make most of their stuff in China and only a few models here?

What do you think the bottom of your tackle box has stamped on it?
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Old 11-12-2008, 11:53 PM   #30
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Default Re: Traeger grills, now proudly made in China

We did this to ourselves, and have no one to blame but ourselves. I for one do not drive a foreign car and I buy items labeled "Made in USA" whenever possible. However, it is getting harder and harder finding stuff that doesn't say "Made in China" on it.

Let me play Devil's advocate for a moment.

With the big three in serious trouble I'm not at all surprised that (GM at least) is gearing up for production in China. It's very simple, they cannot compete. It's not the quality or even actual production costs that are killing them either. It's the labor/healthcare/retirement costs that must be added to the cost of each unit. In short, (I know how unpopular this is going to be, but unfortunately it's the truth) the unions have priced themselves right out of a job. Not to mention it's nearly impossible to fire a non-productive union member. Couple that with the environmental lobby that exists here and we're practically chasing our manufacturing base right out of our country. Really sad.

Our current President elect ran on a platform of keeping jobs here in the USA. Personally, I did not vote for him, but I hope he is successful and even more I hope he is successful in keeping jobs from going overseas. He has got one hell of an uphill battle. If he was indeed serious about that then he'll have to go against two of his most powerful supporters, unions and the environmental lobby.

I for one will not even consider buying a Traeger now. I'll stick with my trusty charcoal fired Webber that says "Made in USA" all over it.

My .
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Old 11-13-2008, 01:19 AM   #31
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Default Re: Traeger grills, now proudly made in China

The Big 3 have been manufacturing in Canada and Mexico for a while. So it's not like it's a new thing.

The ironic thing, is that a GREAT deal of the Japanese cars...are actually built here in the US with US employees.

Quote:
Originally Posted by baitsauce View Post
We did this to ourselves, and have no one to blame but ourselves. I for one do not drive a foreign car and I buy items labeled "Made in USA" whenever possible. However, it is getting harder and harder finding stuff that doesn't say "Made in China" on it.

Let me play Devil's advocate for a moment.

With the big three in serious trouble I'm not at all surprised that (GM at least) is gearing up for production in China. It's very simple, they cannot compete. It's not the quality or even actual production costs that are killing them either. It's the labor/healthcare/retirement costs that must be added to the cost of each unit. In short, (I know how unpopular this is going to be, but unfortunately it's the truth) the unions have priced themselves right out of a job. Not to mention it's nearly impossible to fire a non-productive union member. Couple that with the environmental lobby that exists here and we're practically chasing our manufacturing base right out of our country. Really sad.

Our current President elect ran on a platform of keeping jobs here in the USA. Personally, I did not vote for him, but I hope he is successful and even more I hope he is successful in keeping jobs from going overseas. He has got one hell of an uphill battle. If he was indeed serious about that then he'll have to go against two of his most powerful supporters, unions and the environmental lobby.

I for one will not even consider buying a Traeger now. I'll stick with my trusty charcoal fired Webber that says "Made in USA" all over it.

My .
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Old 11-13-2008, 06:03 AM   #32
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Default Re: Traeger grills, now proudly made in China

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The US citizen has DEMANDED Chinese product because they want the lowest price point available. Along with that price point comes overall lower quality, less company responsibility, and a greater likelihood that a product will be unsafe.
I disagree.

The U.S. consumer does not make a conscious decision to buy goods that are made outside of the U.S. The consumer makes a conscious decision to buy the best product for his/her hard-earned dollar, without regard to where it is made.

And, in general, quality does not suffer. Quality actually improves.

We keep hearing about tainted drugs, lead paint contamination, etc. When you consider the volume of products made in China (and other lower-cost countries of origin), quality problems are minimal.

Let's take drugs as an example. Class I recalls are the scary ones. These are defined as "a situation in which there is a reasonable probability that the use of or exposure to a violative product will cause serious adverse health consequences or death."

Chinese-made drugs, on a volume basis, have less than one-tenth of the Class I recalls as those made in the U.S. The problem is that with the volume of drugs made in China you are going to hear about such recalls more often. It's an artifact.

Big-box retailers don't sell poor quality on purpose. They sell the very best products available for a given price point. The U.S. consumer then buys the least expensive product that will get the job done.

No conspiracy here.

It's a world economy, folks. Prepare yourself and your children accordingly.
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Old 11-13-2008, 06:56 AM   #33
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Default Re: Traeger grills, now proudly made in China

Whats next, Harley Davidson?
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Old 11-13-2008, 07:03 AM   #34
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Whats next, Harley Davidson?
Or that great American Patriot named beer Samuel Adams?!? Oh wait, they don't use any American Hops in their brews now. Only Hops from overseas.
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Old 11-13-2008, 07:55 AM   #35
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But it is too bad they could not afford to use America labor.
A $1200 BBQ!!!!

Are you kidding, or did you get one of the lead versions early?

Could not afford to use American labor, they probably don't have $100 in labor in one of those grills.

What a joke.

Greed rules the world folks! GREED!
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Old 11-13-2008, 09:00 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by veilside180sx View Post
The Big 3 have been manufacturing in Canada and Mexico for a while. So it's not like it's a new thing.

The ironic thing, is that a GREAT deal of the Japanese cars...are actually built here in the US with US employees.
yep Toyota employs more Americans than any US automaker.

So really, if you want to "buy American" you should buy a Toyota. Funny how that works.
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Old 11-13-2008, 11:08 AM   #37
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The American public hasn't demanded anything, they have been marketed to. Corps have chosen to unemploy us, go to China and tell us it's for our own good.
I label shop. If I will buy something made in Asia it will have an Asian name on it. The last product I will buy will be one made in china with an american name on it. american companies that lay off their workers and then set up in china are nothing less than traitors and I have great disdain for them. Their products should be heavily tariffed and they should have no tax shelters and the companies global sells should be taxed and their offshore labor should not be tax deductible. The shame is on them.
It's not "We" who have done this to our selfs, it's a corrupt system that we have no influence with that's doing it to us. I have no guilt, just anger.
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Old 11-13-2008, 11:16 AM   #38
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The American public hasn't demanded anything, they have been marketed to. Corps have chosen to unemploy us, go to China and tell us it's for our own good.
I label shop. If I will buy something made in Asia it will have an Asian name on it. The last product I will buy will be one made in china with an american name on it. american companies that lay off their workers and then set up in china are nothing less than traitors and I have great disdain for them. Their products should be heavily tariffed and they should have no tax shelters and the companies global sells should be taxed and their offshore labor should not be tax deductible. The shame is on them.
It's not "We" who have done this to our selfs, it's a corrupt system that we have no influence with that's doing it to us. I have no guilt, just anger.

We do have influence and you are seeing that played out in the market. People have stopped buying products and many companies are feeling the pain. You vote at the ballot box once or twice a year but you vote with your wallet every day.
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Old 11-13-2008, 11:24 AM   #39
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We do have influence and you are seeing that played out in the market. People have stopped buying products and many companies are feeling the pain. You vote at the ballot box once or twice a year but you vote with your wallet every day.
I don't think it's "We" that's influencing the market, I think it's the fall out from thier corruption that's causing mass unemployment that's influecing the market. I have no faith in the ballot box to influence globalism or to instill pariotism over greed.
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Old 11-13-2008, 01:08 PM   #40
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You're kidding that the American public hasn't "demanded" foreign products?

I'll give you a choice between two products, "A" and "B".

"A" is made in the USA. It has a longer life expectancy, has greater adjustments, and is overall a better product. It is made out of better quality of material.

"B" is made in China, Taiwan, or other Asian markets. It has a shorter life expectancy, has less quality control, and less adjustments. It is made out of a lesser quality material.

Installed, both products work exactly the same 90% of the time. Product "B" has a higher initial rate of failure, but it is "reasonable". Life expectancy of product "A" is 40 years, product "B" is from 5-15 years. All these products do is turn something on and turn something off.

Product "B" is 1/3 the cost of product "A".

Which is chosen more often?

Residential housing: Product B, almost 100% of the time
Light commercial construction: Product B, around 75% of the time
Commercial construction: 50-50 split
Hospitals/Schools, heavy infrastructure: Product A 75% of the time. This is only at this level due to diligence working with the engineering community to reinforce that in the long term quality products actually have a total cost that is less than poor quality products.

We live in a "lowest cost bid wins" world, and the age of a 1 year warranty. Two things in the US drive this; labor and taxes.

The labor in the US to manufacture is so far greater than China it is obscene. The hourly manufacturing cost in China is only 3% of the same cost in the US. The US has social responsibilities to employees that China does not have. We cannot come anywhere close to the 6 day, 70+ hour work weeks that are accepted in China. That doesn't even touch on the benefit side of things.

Taxes on US corporations and capital expenditures are huge in the US compared to Asia. Looking at the shift in Hi Tech chip production, it has been said that the reason the computer chip fabs are moving to China is not the 80%+ wage rate difference, but that there is upwards of 90% less taxes and other incentives for locating these facilities in China. While many US citizens are upset seeing major tax breaks for Corporations working in the US, the simple fact is that even WITH these tax breaks, the cost of doing business in China is less.

Any responsible domestic manufacturer (like my company) has instituted "Lean Manufacturing" in the US. We have looked at every conceivable way to take cost out of making our product. We are successful currently due to the demand of Just In Time product to distributors, allowing for smaller inventory, but we are in the construction industry.

Like it or not, the consumer market is low bid.

Again, I ask, how many rods or reels do you have that are American Made? Are you sure? Maybe they used to be, maybe you even still think they are because their high end stuff is still made in the US, but everything else is made in China......

I fish with Loomis...... ALL of their rods are made up the road.
I fish with Penn Internationals.. Those are American made, but I don't think the rest of the Penn line-up is.
I fish with Shimano...... We all know where they are made.
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Old 11-13-2008, 01:44 PM   #41
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Free market/trade is a myth, what we lose our jobs for (compete against) is wide open pollution, slave wages and working conditions, bribery, totalitarian government control of the workers, build it here if you want to sell it here, devalued currency, the list goes on. What is our nations response to this playing field, Most favored trading status, NAFTA where products can be imported to Mexico or Canada and then shipped here duty free, open our high ways to Mexican long haul truckers (lower wages) to move those products. Penalize our industries that chose to stay here until they are forced to leave. Those of us in manufacturing are competing against treason, corruption and greed that's condoned and perpetuated by our government and a citizenry that just doesn't care. We are told that it's good for us, retrain yourself, go back to school, change careers, start over, we will extend your unemployment. This is sick.
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Old 11-13-2008, 02:26 PM   #42
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There is no other country in the world that has as many, and demands as many luxuries as the US. TV's in each bedrooom, (maybe one for the kitchen), multiple vehicles, quads, boats, Hi-Def TV, homes owned by many..... The list goes on and on. The middle class in America are some of the richest people in the world.

Americans as a whole have more discretionary income than any other country in the world, and Americans SPEND more of their discretionary income than any other country.

For example, US citizens spent $880 BILLION on recreation in 2007. The next closest was Japan with $276 BILLION. Per capita, the average US citizen spent $2927 versus $2165 in Japan.

By contrast, China spent $34 per capita.

The trend of discretionary spending is the same in every category. The US citizen spends more per capita on what they want then any other country in the world.

The way the US citizen spends that discretionary income is a vote for what they place value on.

US citizens place a heck of a lot more value on quantity and price over quality. A Berkley Buzz Ramsey 15-50 rod would seem to be a good example. You can buy 4 of those compared to perhaps one of a G. Loomis.

Some people can't afford the G. Loomis
Some people don't care about the quality difference.
Some people want the quality, but they have a budget that doesn't allow it.
Some people would rather buy 1 G. Loomis rod than have 4 Berkley rods.

I'm in manufacturing. We have facilities in Corona CA, Blythville AR, Stuarts Drafts VA, Nacadoches TX, Lebanon OH, and Greensboro GA.

Yes, we face tough times manufacturing in the US, but we still do, and we intend to continue to do so. We have to be better at it than those overseas, but like anything else, we can either BE better and thrive, or do it the same old way and die on the vine.

Think there is a reason that Americans have so much discretionary income?
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Old 11-13-2008, 02:48 PM   #43
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Nalu, we can discuse this until the TUNA return to our waters. I respect your views but I will keep mine. I just hope that those that use to work at Traeger can find another job that will let them afford to buy a china built Traeger.
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Old 11-13-2008, 03:20 PM   #44
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Free market/trade is a myth, what we lose our jobs for (compete against) is wide open pollution, slave wages and working conditions, bribery, totalitarian government control of the workers, build it here if you want to sell it here, devalued currency, the list goes on. What is our nations response to this playing field, Most favored trading status, NAFTA where products can be imported to Mexico or Canada and then shipped here duty free, open our high ways to Mexican long haul truckers (lower wages) to move those products. Penalize our industries that chose to stay here until they are forced to leave. Those of us in manufacturing are competing against treason, corruption and greed that's condoned and perpetuated by our government and a citizenry that just doesn't care. We are told that it's good for us, retrain yourself, go back to school, change careers, start over, we will extend your unemployment. This is sick.
Kind of creepy how you typed my thoughts.


Nalu,

I think most people will buy quality over quanity if they have the resources to do so.
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Old 11-13-2008, 03:48 PM   #45
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Default Re: Traeger grills, now proudly made in China

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Where do you think the steel in building, ships and bridges come from? It ain't Pittsburgh.
Except bridges...federal high-way projects = "Buy America" clause!!!!

I had the same clause with my Traeger purchase...snuck in a deal with Ron for one of his last Made in the USA Texas-Style BBQ's!
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Old 11-13-2008, 03:51 PM   #46
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Nalu, we can discuse this until the TUNA return to our waters. I respect your views but I will keep mine. I just hope that those that use to work at Traeger can find another job that will let them afford to buy a china built Traeger.
That's certainly fair enough. I guess my point is that I battle the import stuff every day. And when I say BATTLE, I mean it. We are constantly vigilant on every front to not let the poor quality imports get a foothold. If we don't we're doomed. Some of it is good quality, a lot of it is junk. Problem is, most people don't recognize the difference, and the disposable nature of todays society means that they often times get rid of it before the poor quality really is noticeable.

Which of course begs the question... Does it make sense to build a product that will last 40 years if the consumer only cares if it lasts 5?
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Old 11-13-2008, 04:07 PM   #47
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Except bridges...federal high-way projects = "Buy America" clause!!!!

I had the same clause with my Traeger purchase...snuck in a deal with Ron for one of his last Made in the USA Texas-Style BBQ's!
You might be surprised what is allowed in the "Buy America" clause. You also probably be shocked to see how something that is an import item "becomes" domestic by adding in the value of labor that goes into assembly, marketing, transportation, etc...... It's a really nasty game, and more companies than you think promote "Domestic" products that are comprised primarily of components that are manufactured outside the US and the final assembly is done here by low wage workers.

Walk around your home and count the import items used to build it. Look under your sink or behind the toilet at the angle stop on the plumbing....Import. The hose to your faucet. The faucet itself. The valve that shuts off your water heater. The flex tubing for your water heater.

How about ALL of the fixtures in your house..... sinks, toilets, lavs- Unless it is Kohler, or a few fiberglass tub manufacturers, it's almost certainly import. (SS sinks by Elkay or Just). Of course Kohler is expensive, so is Elkay and Just........

I really wish people WOULD care about buying US products, but time and again it is shown that they don't. They want the "DEAL".
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Old 11-13-2008, 05:41 PM   #48
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Again, I ask, how many rods or reels do you have that are American Made? Are you sure? Maybe they used to be, maybe you even still think they are because their high end stuff is still made in the US, but everything else is made in China......

I fish with Loomis...... ALL of their rods are made up the road.
I fish with Penn Internationals.. Those are American made, but I don't think the rest of the Penn line-up is.
I fish with Shimano...... We all know where they are made.

Nalu...hate to break it to you, dude, but G. Loomis isn't even an American company. It's Japanese.

Also, pick up a box that holds a new Shimano spinning reel. I bet you'll be surprised.

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Old 11-13-2008, 05:56 PM   #49
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Nalu...hate to break it to you, dude, but G. Loomis isn't even an American company. It's Japanese.

Also, pick up a box that holds a new Shimano spinning reel. I bet you'll be surprised.

Don't get me started on "American Company". G Loomis may not be owned by an American Company, but neither is Budweiser. The question was regarding American "MADE".

The fact of the matter is that G Loomis rods are 100% made in Woodland, WA. They employ workers in the factory as well as employ locals that do outsourcing work on the rods. They provide benefits to those employees, and those employees have families and contribute to the local economy.

Surprised by where Shimano reels or made? Maybe take time to read all the posts above and you'll see I mentioned that fact already.
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Old 11-13-2008, 06:02 PM   #50
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Default Re: Traeger grills, now proudly made in China

If you wanted to buy one, I'd do it now. The ones in the stores are still the ones made here. Won't be that way in another month or so. Pellets will still be made here as well as rubs.
This will prove to be a real mistake and bring down a great name.

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How do you avid Traeger fanatics feel about this move?


They have recently laid off most of the US workforce because production has been moved overseas to China.
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Old 11-13-2008, 07:06 PM   #51
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Don't get me started on "American Company". G Loomis may not be owned by an American Company, but neither is Budweiser. The question was regarding American "MADE".
The fact of the matter is that G Loomis rods are 100% made in Woodland, WA. They employ workers in the factory as well as employ locals that do outsourcing work on the rods. They provide benefits to those employees, and those employees have families and contribute to the local economy.[/quote]

So it is better to support a foreign economy with plants on American soil than the American economy even though portions of it employ overseas workers?


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Surprised by where Shimano reels or made? Maybe take time to read all the posts above and you'll see I mentioned that fact already.
Malaysia. The answer is Malaysia and I didn't see that anywhere above. In fact, I didn't see Shimano mentioned anywhere until post #40.
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Old 11-13-2008, 07:49 PM   #52
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The fact of the matter is that G Loomis rods are 100% made in Woodland, WA. They employ workers in the factory as well as employ locals that do outsourcing work on the rods. They provide benefits to those employees, and those employees have families and contribute to the local economy.
So it is better to support a foreign economy with plants on American soil than the American economy even though portions of it employ overseas workers?


Malaysia. The answer is Malaysia and I didn't see that anywhere above. In fact, I didn't see Shimano mentioned anywhere until post #40.[/quote]

Please excuse me for not being able to follow what appears to be your circular argument. ???

The discussion as I understood it was manufacturing products in the US versus manufacturing over seas, not the country the parent country is from. That represents a whole different discussion. As for supporting a "foreign" economy.... US manufacturing regardless of origin of the principle ownership supports the US economy. Ask a worker making a Toyota in the US what the impact is on the US economy.- Here's a snippet-

In 2007 Toyota made 1.7 million vehicles in North America and by 2010 will have the capacity to build 2.2 million, Cuneo said. The company has invested $21.8 billion, created 43,858 direct jobs, and purchased $29 billion in goods from North American suppliers, including some 500 Tier One suppliers in 25 states.


As far as Shimano reels being from Malaysia- Now you're just being nit-picky, but not providing anything of substance or argument. My reference to the reels was that we knew where they were made- NOT domestically. "CHINA" can be substituted by a plethora of different countries that realistically can be lumped together. China, Taiwan, Vietnam, Korea and of course Malaysia. Please beg my pardon for not making that clear enough.

With regard to Shimano......they make excellent products. They have filled many voids in the US market on the reel side by introducing quality products that consumers wanted. The fact is they introduced reels to the US market that were better than the products we had here for the most part. When us companies lag behind and stop being innovators, there's not a chance.
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Old 11-13-2008, 09:02 PM   #53
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So, then, the problem is not that products are no longer being made in the U.S.A, but that they're being made in "China" or

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a plethora of different countries that realistically can be lumped together. China, Taiwan, Vietnam, Korea and of course Malaysia.
Is it anti-Chinese sentiment that gets us so up in arms? Been tried before (see 1850-1900). If products were being outsourced to Japan, would we be so incensed? Germany? Costa Rica? Canada? I guess what I'm really asking is this: Where is the line drawn?

I received a PM asking how I make my purchases. I choose to purchase the best product that I can afford. I don't care where it is made. I don't even look. Although now that I thing about it, that's not entirely true. I also look for a warranty. Marmot, Lamiglas, Shimano and Kershaw are products I specifically seek out when purchasing. Three of the four are local companies that I can drive to for warranty issues - if needed. Three of those three I've never needed to deal with for warranty issues.

I don't know what question I'm trying to ask. Something like: Are we angry because jobs are being moved overseas, or is there something deeper?
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Old 11-14-2008, 12:14 AM   #54
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So, then, the problem is not that products are no longer being made in the U.S.A, but that they're being made in "China" or



Is it anti-Chinese sentiment that gets us so up in arms? Been tried before (see 1850-1900). If products were being outsourced to Japan, would we be so incensed? Germany? Costa Rica? Canada? I guess what I'm really asking is this: Where is the line drawn?

I received a PM asking how I make my purchases. I choose to purchase the best product that I can afford. I don't care where it is made. I don't even look. Although now that I thing about it, that's not entirely true. I also look for a warranty. Marmot, Lamiglas, Shimano and Kershaw are products I specifically seek out when purchasing. Three of the four are local companies that I can drive to for warranty issues - if needed. Three of those three I've never needed to deal with for warranty issues.

I don't know what question I'm trying to ask. Something like: Are we angry because jobs are being moved overseas, or is there something deeper?

A valid question. For me I am not angry at companies doing what they have to do to survive, or even profit. I'm certainly not angry at foreign countries for employing their work force and trying to increase their GDP. The company I work for is privately owned (but has an ESOP), and believes that it is important that we retain every job we can by utilizing domestic employees. As a company, we work very hard to demonstrate that purchasing our products is a good business decision. Just the fact alone that we make it here doesn't amount to anything. We strive to make our products value added, something a manufacturer overseas can't do as easily.

So me.... I'm not angry. I simply say that free trade is alive and well, but I want consumers to pay attention, and give their purchases some consideration. Buying domestic products over imports is at the most basic level better for our economy, but it still has to be a good decision for the consumer.

Oh... An Marmot makes their clothes in Asia, Lamiglas makes all but their Certified Pro's in China, Shimano- Malaysia, and Kershaw- Not sure if they still make the blades here or not. Nothing there to be angry about, simply the facts.
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Old 11-14-2008, 10:34 AM   #55
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While growing up I was told Communism is bad. I spent Four years of my life Fighting communists, Now they want to give them my job. The Chinese are still communists, So what's changed ?
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Old 11-14-2008, 11:00 AM   #56
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Nalu,

I think most people will buy quality over quanity if they have the resources to do so.

If this were true, Walmart wouldn't exist.
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Old 11-14-2008, 11:04 AM   #57
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While growing up I was told Communism is bad. I spent Four years of my life Fighting communists, Now they want to give them my job. The Chinese are still communists, So what's changed ?

They have money.
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Old 11-14-2008, 11:30 AM   #58
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While growing up I was told Communism is bad. I spent Four years of my life Fighting communists, Now they want to give them my job. The Chinese are still communists, So what's changed ?
Simple - the US only supports "freedom" if it is beneficial to its national interest.
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Old 11-14-2008, 11:30 AM   #59
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While growing up I was told Communism is bad. I spent Four years of my life Fighting communists, Now they want to give them my job. The Chinese are still communists, So what's changed ?
They are buying our Governmant Bonds by the boat load and for all you big government types you should be thankful. Takes plenty of money to run all of our give away programs.
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Old 11-14-2008, 05:49 PM   #60
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A valid question. For me I am not angry at companies doing what they have to do to survive, or even profit. I'm certainly not angry at foreign countries for employing their work force and trying to increase their GDP. The company I work for is privately owned (but has an ESOP), and believes that it is important that we retain every job we can by utilizing domestic employees. As a company, we work very hard to demonstrate that purchasing our products is a good business decision. Just the fact alone that we make it here doesn't amount to anything. We strive to make our products value added, something a manufacturer overseas can't do as easily.

So me.... I'm not angry. I simply say that free trade is alive and well, but I want consumers to pay attention, and give their purchases some consideration. Buying domestic products over imports is at the most basic level better for our economy, but it still has to be a good decision for the consumer.

Oh... An Marmot makes their clothes in Asia, Lamiglas makes all but their Certified Pro's in China, Shimano- Malaysia, and Kershaw- Not sure if they still make the blades here or not. Nothing there to be angry about, simply the facts.
Nalu - Paragraph two...I like it. Thank you. I'd have replied earlier, but work got in the way of an interesting discussion.

But call Lamiglas - 360.225.9436 - and ask someone there where its rods are built. Please.
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