What's Right with the Fly Board

[Steve L.]

Ok, We've all had a chance to kick around what's wrong on this board, myself included . I think we need to take a look at what's right here as well.

I like seeing the pics that are posted along with the reports. I like being able to share my reports ( need to get a small digital camera ). I like to have a venue to share what I know and where I can learn more.

So, what do you think ?

[BalouSC]

I love the pics!!! I work a ton and don't get to go out much so I sure appreciate your pics! I wish we could fill up the steelhead bragging board! Is nobody catching them or are they just shy?

[AndyK]

I love the pics!!! I work a ton and don't get to go out much so I sure appreciate your pics! I wish we could fill up the steelhead bragging board! Is nobody catching them or are they just shy?

There have been a number of steelhead caught that I know about. The problem is that no one has caught a fish longer than Clacksteel's entry for June. I'm sure we will see more fish in July, when the monthly competition will be "wide open"!

[Jennie@ifish]

Basicly, I like our fly board, because I haven't run into any fly snobs here.

I like it that people can fish all kinds of ways, and no one has that 'Orvis only' attitude. (that I've met, anyhow!)

I can't understand folks who won't gear fish. I think that's just weird. Reminds me of folks that say only "this religion" will get you into heaven.

Whenever I have a close encounter with a fish, it's heaven to me! Whether it's gazing into the water and just catching a glimpse, reading about it, standing by a roaring river as the sun comes up, taking the drift boat out at night all cold and wet and sitting in a warm heated pickup, the absolute rush of having a mighty salmon rub against my hip boots, watching a steelhead flash on it's redds, or hooking it on the end of a rod, regardless of who made the rod, or what kind of rod it is!

It's the feel of the power of the fish! The connection to a live cart wheeling steelie! The flash in the water that you see as you try to figure out just what is on there!

Who gives a darn what made the fish bite? It could be pretzels and a paper clip for all I care! That kind of attitude gives a joyful sport a bitter taste for me.

I'm no better or no worse depending on what I use to fish, and neither are you.

It's all good and it's why "ifish"!

[Jennie@ifish]

...and thank you for this thread.
This fly board is important to me and I'm glad to hear good things!

It makes my day!

Jen

[Riverkeeper]

Jennie, it appears you haven't been reading this board too closely.

As long as stuff like THIS:

Fly fishing is the only way. The only fish in Oregon or Washington I haven't figured out how to catch on a fly is a sturgeon; some day.

Fly fishing requires more physical and mental talent and every fish you catch is therefore more rewarding.

Pity the bait monkeys.

gets posted on this board, many people will be insulted, alienated, and dissuaded from posting.

I have been a flyfisherman my entire life and that will always be how I define myself as a fisherman. But statements like this are some twisted form of internet fishing fascism that I can't understand. Andy, would you say something like that to a bait fisherman on the river? Why would you say that here? :depressed:

[AndyK]

I have been a flyfisherman my entire life and that will always be how I define myself as a fisherman. But statements like this are some twisted form of internet fishing fascism that I can't understand. Andy, would you say something like that to a bait fisherman on the river? Why would you say that here?

I say that kind of thing all the time to bait monkeys on the river. I ask them why they use bait when they could catch fish without bait. I ask them why they are using treble hooks when all they are doing is snagging fish. I ask them why they keep all the fish they catch when they could never possibly eat that much fish.

My favorite (after landing two or three steelhead/salmon on a fly) is to yell at the gear guys that they should be fly fishing.

Fishing with bait requires much less talent then fishing with some feathers, hair and yarn tied on a hook.

Fishing with bait is a voluntary act; it is something that can be changed, I believe for the better.

What about the "fly purists" who say you aren't fly fishing if you are using an indicator or split shot or sink tip line or not using a dry fly; ad nauseam?

[gimmeumpqua]

I don't feel the same as AndyK about gear fisherman, I have had some great experiences catching fish on gear.Still, my fly fishing successes have always been better. And realistically, in the finite amount of time that I have left in this world, I have decided to simplify my life and concentrate on the activities that give me the greatest amount of personal reward. Abandoning gear fishing is not a rejection, it's a concious effort to pare the things out of my life to better the ones I find the most enjoyable. You like bait and treble hooks, have at it...I'll still throw a friendly wave your way.

Kurt

[Pete]

I think it's great to enjoy fly fishing, and it's fine to be committed to one form of fishing, but I think one gets into problems when one deigns to impose their choices on others ... if someone wants to be a gear or bait angler, who is it hurting? Enjoy the sport as you choose, but seriously, wouldn't it be a bummer if everyone on Ifish took you seriously and only fly fished ... the rivers would get awfully crowded!

[AndyK]

I think it's great to enjoy fly fishing, and it's fine to be committed to one form of fishing, but I think one gets into problems when one deigns to impose their choices on others ... if someone wants to be a gear or bait angler, who is it hurting? Enjoy the sport as you choose, but seriously, wouldn't it be a bummer if everyone on Ifish took you seriously and only fly fished ... the rivers would get awfully crowded!

The rivers are already crowded!

Realistically, we need as many fishermen as we can get, bait, gear or fly. We need the political clout to protect our sport.

[Pete]

As one who started with whippy rods and expanded into other aspects of the sport, I appreciate your last statement. There's no question we need all the political clout we can muster; not just short term, but for the long haul. I fear the issues are just going to get tougher as pressures to compromise our fisheries grow.

[wayout]

Riverkeeper, You've got it right. I stopped by the Flyfishing board the other day after a day plunking on the Columbia and what did I find? Some of what I expected among flyfishers...AndyK explaining his philosophy that includes calling people "bait monkeys" because they choose to fish with bait. Of course there seemed to be some people with good attitudes too like yourself, Troutgirl, Jennie, and I'm sure many more. Now the fact is I've built my own fly rods, tied my own flies and caught plenty of fish flyfishing, but I choose to fish with gear and/or bait most of the time. Unfortunately, the snobby elitism of "Flyfishers are better than all others" is alive and well on this board. I guess some people might think its human nature to believe that "My kind is better than your kind" and to even boorishly push their beliefs on others while on the river, if AndyK is to be believed. My own thought is that such beliefs and statements are actually sub-human nature, indeed kind of similar to how competing tribes of baboons deal with each other. Time to quit monkeying around! Gotta go tie up some big trebles with peacock herl for tomorrow's snag-fest with the rest of the bait monkeys. :grin:

[JustCallMeDave]

Realistically, we need as many fishermen as we can get, bait, gear or fly. We need the political clout to protect our sport.

Then why alienate them with derogatory comments like yours above? I do believe that we are sharing a common love here, be it fishing with a bug or a clump of goo.

[Riverkeeper]

Fishing with bait is a voluntary act; it is something that can be changed, I believe for the better.

:shocked:

Wrong 20th century European dictatorship...my bad.

[frankenfish]

I think that what frustrates most flyfishers about gear fishing can be summed up in one word: Garbage.

It is very frustrating to see so much garbage strewn around and greater than 99% of it is from gear and bait fishermen. Treble hooks attached to big honking lead weights, yards of 30 lb monofillament, pieces of pencil lead and slinkies, empty egg or shrimp containers, empty plastic float or lure packaging. The list goes on and on and it sometimes seems as though gear fishermen care nothing about the environment and the condition of the rivers as long as they can catch meat.

Flyfishing is more simple and a whole lot cleaner. A very robust fly line tapers down to a thin tippet and then a fly. When a flyfisher does lose something, it is almost always only his or her fly as the knot attaching the fly to the tippet is the weakest link. We carry flies in a fly box, which we don't discard. Tippet is carried attached to our vests and we replace only a few inches to a foot at a time. When we do use weight, it's either a sinking line we never lose or a small splitshot we occasionally do.

Walk the banks of any river where flyfishing and gear fishing are practiced. Collect some of the garbage, as Andy and I have done, and draw your own conclusions. The next time you trip when you get your boot tangled in a length of monofillament I can assure you it will not have been left there by a flyfisher. Better yet, walk the clean, pristine banks of sections of rivers that are "flyfishing only" and let me know if you do not see the difference.

[Steve L.]

OK guys. Here is some self moderating. This thread was focused on what is right with the fly board. It wasn't focused on differing philosophies.

Let's get back on track here and start new threads on philosophy if need be.

[Splash]

The Rondi's are great. They would be better if they were scheduled for my available weekends. :grin:

Granted I don't post on this board much but I do lurk here from time to time. My skills are limited but I still like to dampen some feathers. Personally I am more of a stillwater guy as I can usually catch nice fish there. If the water moves my success tanks.

The tying threads are pretty cool too. I always like to see new patterns and variations on patterns.

[jfsfish2]

Jennie-

"It could be pretzels and a paper clip for all I care!"

MMMM? I wonder if that would work? Good Idea!! Have made some weird materials and have caught some nice trout. Will have to try that!!
Even a banana would work. I tried that one time for a striper in San Francisco and it worked!!
Jim

[Whiskey Dick]

[/quote]What about the "fly purists" who say you aren't fly fishing if you are using an indicator or split shot or sink tip line or not using a dry fly; ad nauseam?

[/quote]

This one of the reasons i like to visit this site, no stupid arguments about what is fly fishing and what is not.
:smile: :smile: :smile: tight lines,brian

[Kalama Mojo]

Back to what is Right about this board.

I have learned a lot from the information on this board. I started fly fishing a little over a year ago and this forum has provided me with so much good information on gear, flies, and presentation. My skill level has increased so much over the past year. In fact, my first trip with a fly rod was on the Upper Rogue River around Shady Cove last June and I didnt catch a thing, not ever a bite. I just returned from a trip down there and I was actully catching fish in the Holy water and in the strech between the fish hatchery and Shady cove. What a difference a year makes.

I also enjoy the reports with pictures, I just need to learn how to post pictures with a report, I tried to do one on the Deschutes, but couldnt get the damn pictures in it.

[TroutGirl]

I like that I-fish has boards for all the various ways you can slice the pie called fishing.

Although I usually fly fish more than I use gear, I do use gear sometimes. And I think I've got something to learn from each board.

When I was getting ready to go fish bass, albeit with a flyrod, I read the bass & panfish board to just get a feel for the fish.

And when I'm having a slow streak with fly fishing, I look at what runs are in, and what people are having fun with and I see if I should go give that a try.

Whatever method I use, I try to be a good steward and take all my garbage with me. I despise the litter on the banks. A big part of the joy of fishing is slipping away from our manmade world into the world of the river. Whatever crud is clogging the banks, really bugs me. I've always got the plastic bag in my vest (in case I catch a steelhead) and I use it most trips to cleanup the banks. I know lots of good stewards of all persuasions of fishing technique. I will say that some techniques have the potential for more disposable containers and more lost plastic. But that just gives those folks a bigger opportunity to cleanup and many do. It certainly doesn't help persuade people to be improve their stewardship when the conversation has name calling in it.

I do not think that your fishing gear choice has anything to do with your intelligence. Any of our discussions about stewardship or fishing can all benefit from having respect for others.

If I was crazy happy wild about dancing the Jitterbug and wrote with enthusiasm about that dance, it doesn't mean that I look down at someone who Waltzes or Rumba's. It just means that my soul is inspired more by that one. Somedays I feel like switching the music and learning different steps.

The flyfishing board is good.

[3riversBob]

Well said Heather!

Bob

[AndyK]

I do not think that your fishing gear choice has anything to do with your intelligence. Any of our discussions about stewardship or fishing can all benefit from having respect for others.

Sounds like some one trying to appease their conscience for using bait to fish for Springers .

Since this is Steve’s thread, maybe you should start another thread about what great people bait fishermen/women are…

[TroutGirl]

What's really great is that I know this will be the right place to discuss the right way to cast your night crawler.

I've been experimenting with it and mostly it ends up flinging the little things to pieces on the backcast when the line straightens out. Now I've almost got the "weave" figured out for afixing my night crawler to the hook so it stays. Decided it was pretty quick to use red thread and a whip finish to hold him steady. Pass the bobbin around gentle a few times, and whip finish just at the eye. I use the extra small night red angle worms from the garden. I find they work better on my size 8 nymph hook.

I've tried John M's way for the carp and it hasn't worked yet, but I figure a bobber and my whip finish worm in the slough here, well, one of those hundreds of cruisers is mine!

See, I knew you would be open to my experimentation here.
Andy, no guilt at'll. None. mmmmm mmm good. Fishin is fishin.

PS- other great thing about this board is the humor and the folks who know how to take a joke.

[john montana]

but heather...don't joke about carp fishing. that is some serious stuff...heh heh...

i still can't believe andy lives on sauvie island, surrounded by beautiful carp water and still fishes for those little salmon and steelhead...join the really dark side andy!

[3riversBob]

TroutGirl.......you really should join us on the Deschutes the weekend of the 15th. I'm bringing my Folgers Coffee can and some of best home grown garden hackle you've ever seen.

Bob

[TroutGirl]

Bob, that would be grand, but I've got long standing plans to be camping in the cascades with friends. And then down to Bamboo festival at Camp Sherman to do the Common Waters table talk thing on that weekend.

Its shocking how far out I have to book things. No open time in my schedule until maybe a sneaky trip to NEO in August. I'm not countng my chickens yet, but I've got to get a bunch of projects done to do that and coordinate with another schedule to make it work.

Then of course there is my new baby pontoon that will be arriving July 21. I'm very excited to celebrate that and I've got a lot to learn. I'll be putting in some time trying to learn how not to kill myself while drifting and fishing. So, I'm training this fall. Training. (that makes it sound so much more serious than the great fun I anticipate having).

BUT, I do have Ifishstock on my calendar. Would be good to meet a bunch of you there!

[Jennie@ifish]

Trout Girl, I'm so glad you are coming to ifishstock! YAY!

Bring your fly rod, OK?

But, you could bring your worms, too, and we could canoe down into tide water and try your experiment together!!!

AndyK, you crack me up!

LETS!

Jen

[Jennie@ifish]

Oh, I gotta say... bait fishing is NOT open on the Kilchis in the summer months.

Bill and I went around a couple years ago and nailed signs on the trees to remind folks.

I went up this year and reminded the new camp stewards of this law, and they just said that they can't really do anything about the folks that fish worms and bobbers. I guess it's true, they can't.... but still, I hope they'll remind folks. I can't tell you the times I've found dead cutts with hooks in their mouths that float down from above. :depressed:

Also, imagine my horror when I went down to my favorite fly casting pool the other night, and found tons of cut leader material and two beer cans and some candy wrappers just thrown into the water. I was just SICK!

How do people think that is alright to do? It took me forever to pick up the tiny cut pieces of leader material!!!

Sorry for the hijack, I just thought I'd mention it.

Jen

[troutski]

QUOTE:"Who gives a darn what made the fish bite? It could be pretzels and a paper clip for all I care!" Evidently Andy K. does, and as a angler I find his remarks rather amusing, he reminds me of what not to be. Tight lines - what ever the type.