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Core-Lokt Ultra failure

18K views 42 replies 37 participants last post by  alaskan 
#1 ·
I hunted Columbia Whitetails this year, with some guide friends of mine. Another hunter was using a 6.8mm, with Remington factory ammo, 115 gr Core-Loct Ultra bullets. This cartidge is a .223 necked up to .277, with a mv around 2500 fps. This hunter shot a nice buck, on film, at 125 yds, the first evening he was there. Perfect shoulder hit, the buck reared and kicked both rear legs, and took off. He didn't die! Many hours and people searching, no deer. He was seen several times the next few days, limping, with a wound on the shoulder. We all suspected bullet failure.

The other hunter finally shot another buck on the last day of the season, about 100 yds. He puposely shot it in the ribs, for maximun penetration. It went down quickly, but the had to finish it.

Both bullets expanded violently on impact. The entrance wound through the ribs was about 3" diameter, as was the kill shot in the shoulder. The bloodshot area was about as big as a basketball in both spots, ruining the whole front rt side of the deer. Nothing exited, and minimal damage to the rib cage opposite the entry. We could not find any fragments.

I killed a bigger bodied buck at 200 yds with a .270 Win and a 130 gr Triple-shock. It entered the shoulder, quartered back, and exited the last rib. The bloodshot area was only about 3" in diameter, very little lost meat.

After looking at my buck hanging next to his, the other hunter declared he was "going to have a talk with Remington". He writes and does TV shows for a living, and must use his sponser's stuff. He was VERY unhappy!

Conclusion: Same caliber, lower velocity, Core-Lokts failed. If you are serious about harvesting animals cleanly, and like to eat them, Triple-Shocks and Failsafes are the best bullets to use.
 
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#3 ·
Wow sounds like a bullet I will not be using soon. Congrads on your buck glad you found what you were looking for Where are the pics? rp
 
#4 ·
Hmm, interesting. I use premium (Nosler) for my .300 WM and .270 W. But a lot of times I'll get whatever is on sale for my .30-.30. Including the old standard "green box." Never really noticed a problem with the 170 grain Core-Lokts, but those 30-30's aren't exactly fast movers.

I'll keep that in mind, thanks.
 
#5 ·
Talked to my buddy this weekend and he said the same thing. He shot a three point with a .243 and said the bullet exploded on the first rib it touched . The deer dropped and died from shock he thinks. He said their was no damage to the heart or lungs. Not good stuff at all.:sick:

-blake
 
#6 ·
"I hunted Columbia Whitetails this year, with some guide friends of mine. Another hunter was using a 6.8mm, with Remington factory ammo, 115 gr Core-Loct Ultra bullets. This cartidge is a .223 necked up to .277, with a mv around 2500 fps. This hunter shot a nice buck, on film, at 125 yds, the first evening he was there. Perfect shoulder hit, the buck reared and kicked both rear legs, and took off. He didn't die! Many hours and people searching, no deer. He was seen several times the next few days, limping, with a wound on the shoulder. We all suspected bullet failure. "

Mav it sounds like what I'd call a not-so-perfect shoulder shot. 115 grains of anything right on a shoulder joint isn't a good hit. If the deer was still alive and limping it was either a direct ball joint hit or a shot high in the leg (low in the shoulder).

Light bullets will work, just as small caliber rifles will kill deer, but either one leaves less margin for error. Shooting the most powerful cartridge that a hunter can accurately shoot gives the hunter the ability to compensate for a mistake or poorly placed shot. Heck, things happen- an unseen limb or blade of grass, a bit of wind, or the animal taking a step. People make mistakes too.

Good bullet construction, more powder, heavier projectiles. Yeah I know it means more ruined meat but I'd rather lose some meat than lose the animal. No matter how conservative a hunter is when picking a shot, there will be times when "things happen".

You can't kill something too dead. The bullets I've used that anchored deer also ruined a lot of meat.

I dunno. I reckon it's easily to blame Remington but I think the person who selected the caliber and took the shot owns a piece of that. A 6.8 ain't exactly a barnburner of a cartridge. It was designed to get a larger bullet out of a limited rifle platform (the M16 family). I'd no more recommend it to hunt big game with it than I would a .223

If the core-lokts were 150's and fired out of an ought-six, I think the results would have been different.

jmho, aw
 
#23 ·
Mav it sounds like what I'd call a not-so-perfect shoulder shot. 115 grains of anything right on a shoulder joint isn't a good hit.

I dunno. I reckon it's easily to blame Remington but I think the person who selected the caliber and took the shot owns a piece of that. A 6.8 ain't exactly a barnburner of a cartridge. It was designed to get a larger bullet out of a limited rifle platform (the M16 family). I'd no more recommend it to hunt big game with it than I would a .223
jmho, aw
Yep, not really a failure of the bullet. the ultra is a bonded design and about the strongest factory loading for this caliber. I have to say anything less than a lung hit is a no go with this caliber.
Hunt'nFish
 
#7 ·
I have used the Core-lokts for a number of years. I had never really thought of the problems that you guys are talking about untill now. I shoot a 7mm Rem Mag so i normally punch right through the animal, but i do get alot of blood shot. I have been contemplating about trying something different. I have been looking at using a boat-tail load for a flatter trajectory but now with the issue brought to my attention maybe i need to change for other reasons also. Thanks for the insight and a post without alot of ****in and moanin. Thanks again!!!
 
#8 ·
I have used Express Core-Lokt for a number of years and have never had a problem. Well there was one problem, but that was operator error.:redface: (texas neck shot). They have worked well for me. I used some supreme shells one time and it took more than one well placed shot to drop the animal.
I shoot a 270 and 300 wim mag, that may be the difference. You might want to do some gel tests in the future to see what the deal is.
 
#9 ·
"Mav it sounds like what I'd call a not-so-perfect shoulder shot. 115 grains of anything right on a shoulder joint isn't a good hit. If the deer was still alive and limping it was either a direct ball joint hit or a shot high in the leg (low in the shoulder).

Light bullets will work, just as small caliber rifles will kill deer, but either one leaves less margin for error. Shooting the most powerful cartridge that a hunter can accurately shoot gives the hunter the ability to compensate for a mistake or poorly placed shot. Heck, things happen- an unseen limb or blade of grass, a bit of wind, or the animal taking a step. People make mistakes too."

AW,
Nobody is perfect marksman. I don't believe the bullet hit the ball, or the leg bone. It looked like a low hit, right behind the leg. My point is that a well constructed bullet will penetrate whatever it hits. Bullet weight matters much less than construction. The lightest TSX would have killed that deer, no question.

I would also accept more meat damage if a bullet killed things better. My belief is that meat damage is the result of energy transfer. More energy transfer means less penetration, you can't have both. I like deep penetration, with energy transfer occurring all along the wound channel. The TSX and Failsafe leave a double or triple-caliber hole through several FEET of animal before they stop. I'm not worried about lost energy on pass-throughs, because whatever they pass through is destroyed. I have used these bullets in .27, .30, and .375 calibers, at ranges from 30 to 440 yds, and on animals from 100 to 1200 lbs. The performance (wound channels) has been consistent and very satisfactory in every case. No animal has gone more than a few yards, and none have been lost. While my experience is limited to one person, I am friends with a VERY large gunshop owner, who gets reports on thousands of animals killed around the world every year. He sells, and distributes to other retailers, almost everything made. His personal bullet of choice is the TSX---which is why I tried them in the first place! I believe this kind of evidence more than any theory or marketing hype.

I am not connected to the firearms industry in any way, other than as a consumer. My only thought is to help others be more effective in our pursuit of game. Discussion is good, it helps us all learn from each other, and everyone is entitled to their own opinions and beliefs. Personally, I believe these are the best bullets available today, and will not hunt big game with anything else.
 
#10 ·
This is from my opinion and experience only. I hunted for many years with core-lokts and shot many deer. EVERY one of them had excessive blood shot, not every one was a perfectly placed shot, but some were very well placed. A few years ago I switched and started reloading. I liked what I read about Barnes bullets, so that is what I loaded. My recipe: 30-06, 56.5 grains IMR 4350, 168 gr Barnes XLC bullet. I chose the XLC because of the moly coating to help reduce copper fouling in my barrel which is the main complaint with Barnes bullets.

Every deer I have shot with a Barnes XLC has had very little blood shot damage & loss. This years 3-point for example, I made a bad shot and took out the middle of his spine 1/2 way between the front and rear of the back-strap. There was hardly any blood shot, yet a softball size chunk of meat & bone was missing from his back. I was pretty upset when I walked up and seen where I hit him. After skinning I didn't think it would be too bad. When processing the deer, I still have 6 1# packages of back-strap. There was virtually no loss to blood shot.

So in my experience, core-lokt bullets are fine for plinking or target practice, but are a poor hunting bullet unless you only are about horns and not about the amount of meat you get from an animal.

Others may have better experiences, but like I said, this is from my own personal experience.
 
#11 ·
Hmmm...I've never shot Cor-Lokts myself, but I've seen the results on deer from others who do. Primarily 140 grain 7mm's and 165 grain in .30 cal. I've only seen good results personally.

I'm sure the TSX has good terminal performance, but I haven't gotten good accuracy in the two guns I've tried them in. I'm sure they drive tacks in other guns, but in mine they don't, and I won't shoot an inaccurate load if there are other good bullets available that do better.

As with the others, this is just my personal experience.

Ni!
 
#12 ·
I have to jump on this thread. I have killed my last 5 deer with 150 gr. core lokt PSP bullets and have been nothing but impressed. I shot a deer saturday morning at 250 yds. behind the shoulder through the heart and everything was perfect. The bullet passed through the deer cleanly and the blood shot meat was minimal. The animal collapsed at the shot.
My last 5 deer have all collapsed on the spot or within 20 yds ( that animal was running). My personal experiance is core lokt is one of the best bullets on the market.

I would not use less than 150 gr. bullet, and I think a lot of bullet problems are due to shooter problems with poorly palced shots.
 
#13 ·
I used to use core lokt. I had a 7 mag (150gr.), and a .243 (100gr). The 7 mag would just destroy what ever it hit. I'd get fragmentation on the bullet. Lots of bloodshot. With the .243 minimal bloodshot, but poor penetration. I killed a couple of deer without the bullet going past the ribs. The shock of the impact however turned the lung next to the impact point to mush. I now have a .270 (which I love to shoot), and only use the winchester XP series bullets (XP2 & XP3) in a 150 gr. I get better accuracy and great penetration with minimal to maybe a little more than minimal damage to the meat. However, I usually hit them either in the neck or behind the shoulder.
 
#14 ·
Core-Lokt bullets are all I've used for years. In the last 3 years my family has taken 5 elk with these bullets, with excellent performance. I've killed two elk both at about 300 yards, both times the bullet struck a rib on impact, penetrated through the animal and was found against the skin on the backside. We dont shoot light calibers though, one was taken with a 30-06, three were taken with a 300 win. mag, and the other a 300 ultra mag. Maybe these bullets dont work in small calibers, but I dont understand why the would perform well in large calibers and not the smaller ones.
 
#15 ·
I have shot about every bullet that is on the market. I didn't trust these bullets for elk. The other day I was sighting in my 30.06 and found every round intack except for one that the lead separated. I also was shooting "high dollar" reloads and only found peices of those bullets. Now I was shooting into dirt @ 25 yards. I was very impressed. I feel alot more confident and will not hesitate to carry them durring elk season.
 
#16 ·
I have used these bullets for deer and never have had a problem with my o6. My nephew used a 308 to take a cow 2 years ago with the same bullet no problem...These were one of the top bullets rated by Outdoor life last year...
 
#17 ·
I hunt with a 243 Remington BDL. I use factory Remington core lokt bullets in it cause they shoot 1/2 inch groups at 100yards.

So far with that combo I have killed an antelope at 330 yards with one shot.
I have killed a 4 point monster mule deer at 100 yards again one shot.
This year I killed a nice fork and horn at around 150 yards again one shoot.
All animals never took more than a few steps.

I don't think it's the bullets.
 
#18 ·
There is a difference between the old Cor-lokt's and the New Ultra Cor-Lokts?
I just found out that they are making the new Cor lokts.
Im a reloader and always have been and dont shoot factory rifle ammo.
I was wondering if maybe thats it?
 
#24 ·
There is a difference between the old Cor-lokt's and the New Ultra Cor-Lokts?
I just found out that they are making the new Cor lokts.
Im a reloader and always have been and dont shoot factory rifle ammo.
I was wondering if maybe thats it?
Yes, old not bonded. The Ultra is bonded....jacket may be a tad thicker but don't hold me to that.

Fine bullets. Taken may deer and elk with the old core-lokts, adding bonding only makes them better IMO.
Hunt'nFish
 
#19 ·
I have no experience with the Core-locks, but I did have an interesting discussion with a co-worker last night about triple shocks. He was shooting a .308, I believe the 150 grain bullet and his partner and him were very astonished to see all the damage that his bullet did to this years buck, I believe he said it was a lung shot and stopped on the far side, but both sides were extremely blood shot. I wonder if the blood shot is a function of the bullet destroying tissue or the damaged tissue receiving blood from a beating heart longer in some circumstances.

A side note, I wished I had a camera when I field dressed this years buck, my 130 grain interlock, .277 took out two ribs going in (had some angle on the shot) took out one lung big time, broke the far shoulder into pieces and was laying just under the hide. Had very little blood shot on the entry side, but the far shoulder had several pounds of waste. The front half of the core had seperated, but the jacket with the back half of core was just in front of it. Considering the amount of bone it went through, it did exactly what I wanted. The full energy of the bullet was dissipated within the buck, some shrapnel was discharged into the chest cavity and massive internal injury was accomplished. Buck hit the ground at the shot.
 
#20 ·
If blood shot isnt what a person wants, then use a 458 win mag you can eat right up to the bullet hole, very little blood shot meat.
It is something to watch a 500 gn bullet pass through them.
 
#21 ·
A couple of years ago, I came to the conclusion that Remington ammunitions was not for me. Their loads are noticibly lighter than Federal or others. I like their .22 rimfire but I don't buy the centerfire unless it is on sale and all I need some "go-bang).
 
#22 ·
I have harvested many animals with the core-lokt and have not noticed any more bloodshot than what is expected. If anything, my reloads have done more damage than the core-lokts. The blacktail I harvested yesterday was dropped in its tracks and I lost only a small portion of the neck. This was from a .270 with 130 grain bullet. I have nothing bad to say about these bullets.
 
#25 · (Edited)
Hey RR, how big was your deer.......as far as the bullets go...when I was talking about my 7 mag, and .243....I was talking about quite a few years ago. The older core lokt bullets were what I was using. Since I switched though, I have never gone back. I only have the .270 now, so unless I reload or spend bigger money, I won't go with the Remington rounds because I don't like such a round nosed bullet.
 
#26 ·
I used Core-Lokt for years, great bullet IMO. I've never tried the ulta-bonded Core-Lokt. Between myself and my father we probably harvested over 30 animals with them and never had one splinter. The "one" deer I shot with a pastic tipped (blastic tip?? before accu-tip) looked like I hit it with birdshot :sick:after the bullet hit a rib. I've also used some nosler partitions on moose ( factory federal), but they did not group as well as the Remmington Core-Lokt.

Botton line is it sounds like a bad shot, not a bad bullet design.
 
#27 ·
killed 2 bucks with my .270 shooting 130 gr psp core lokts, and 4 bucks with 135gr psp core lokts out of my .06 with no prob. what causes the blood shot is when you hit bone.

If you like to shoot shoulders or high shoulder drop shots, you're gonna have some bloodshot, but if you shoot em in the kill zone, you're not gonna ruin any meat.
 
#28 ·
I agree with many on this tread ............poor sectional density and slow bullet speed equal just what you experanced. Big game have a will to live. If you don't take them with something proven to be a good killer the results are shaky. That bullet is not really made for penatration...........even the .277 130 grain is somewhat shy on sectional density but has been a standard for many years. The .277 150 grain is by far a better choice in the .270 .......but the new round your talking about doesn't have the spit to push it fast enough to perform correctly or any bullet for that matter. Its a small game round like the .223. The .250 Savage is by far a better choice for deer .......yet its conciderd on the small end now days. Thats my opinion.

Happy Hunting !
 
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