IFish Fishing Forum banner

Elk caliber for youth

22K views 44 replies 36 participants last post by  wildthing 
#1 ·
I am trying to decide on the best caliber center fire for my 12 year old daughter who has a youth cow hunt this year. The caliber's I am considering are 25-06, 250 roberts, 6mm, or 308 Norma mag or 300 Savage. Her hunters safety instructor suggested a .243 but I concerned about that rifle not being large enough for a totally ethical kill. Trying to find a balance between a rifle that wont knock the hell out her, and one that will provide an ethical kill. And before you tell me, I already know, shot placement,shot placement, shot placement.
 
#28 ·
I know of someone who might be willing to part(sell) a Winchester .308 bolt action for a decent price if you are interested. This rifle has a shortened stock on it and might just be a perfect fit.

LS
 
#32 ·
When i am looking at a youth/womens gun I am looking to get the most kill power with the least recoil. You want the gun to have a light enough recoil that she ENJOYS shooting the gun besides just hunting with it. Everyone has there own opinions and there was alot of great suggestions and here are mine.....
For Elk i look at the energy (ft-lbs) that my gun has......for elk i believe it is best to have at least 2000 ft-lbs of energy at impact to cleanly kill a full grown elk. Looking at rifles that means that the absolute smallest gun i would get is a 25-06 shooting 125 grain bullets....you would be at around 2027 ft-lbs at 100 yds...now i wouldn't want to go any further then 150 yds with it....your 6.5mm rifles would basically give you the same thing only a 140 grain bullet( i would stay away from a 264 winnie mag because of recoil.)
Your also good with a .270 out to a couple hundred yards
Going up from here everything is good energy wise....but looking at recoil i would choose the 7mm-08 or 7x57 mauser....leaning to the 7mm-08. IF you put a quality recoil pad on this gun the recoil is extremely mild for as powerful a rifle it is.....The only other one's i would recommend would be a .280 or a 30-06. Loaded down. 308's and 270's are a little notorious for recoil......

My Wife shoots a .243 for Deer and currently a .280 for Elk. On her christmas list is a 7mm-08 for elk because of the milder recoil.....

Once someone gets nervous of recoil its hard to break them of bad shooting habits and it takes away the fun of it....
 
#37 ·
7mm-08. One of the most underated and overlooked cartriges out there. I'd skip the muzzle brake (you are trading one painful experience for another) and get a SIMMs/Limbsaver recoil pad. Another option is to get a 06' or .270 and use the reduced recoil ammo. That way when she gets older, she'll be able to use the same gun. Although the 7-08 is no slouch as an elk cartridge for a small framed adult, as long as the shots are kept to a reasonable range and you choose a good bullet. IMHO, and I know others disagree, a .243 is a marginal deer cartridge and has no place as an elk gun. Will it work yes, but would not be my first choice.
 
#39 ·
Take a look at this recoil table for some comparisions between rounds.

My neighbor's 9 year old boy was able to shoot my 7-08 without any problems. Even the Hornady Light Magnum rounds don't kick very much.

Recoil Table



"The Sensible 7mm-08 Remington By Chuck Hawks

The 7mm-08 Remington is a cartridge whose time has finally come. For a long time there has been a demand for something approximating .270 Winchester performance in a cartridge short enough to work through short action rifles.Soon after the .308 Win. was introduced, back in 1952, wildcatters had a field day necking the new, strong, short case up and down. One of the neatest results was the 7mm-08 wildcat, the .308 necked down to accept .284 inch (7mm) diameter bullets. It didn't equal the ballistics of the classic .270, but it gave about 90% of that performance, enough to be satisfying, and it would work in any action for which the .308 could be chambered.Winchester realized by 1963 that there was a market for .270-like ballistics in a short case, and they brought out the .284 Winchester. But rather than just necking down their .308 case, as they had done with the .243 Winchester and .358 Winchester, they tried to get fancy. Realizing that the smaller .308 case could never equal the velocity potential of the larger .270 case, they created a new .308-length case with a fatter body, but a rebated rim of (smaller) standard diameter, so the new cartridge would still work through standard short actions and mate correctly with standard diameter bolt faces. This solution never caught on with the buying public, and .284 sales languished, although ballistically the new cartridge did come close to the classic .270.Jump ahead to 1980, when Remington finally did the obvious, and designed a 7mm cartridge based on the .308 case. The new Remington 7mm-08 was identical to the wildcat version except Remington technicians lengthened the .308 case by .020 inch, for a case length of 2.035 inches. Reloaders can still neck down .308 brass to accept .284 inch bullets and the resulting cases will work fine in factory chambered 7mm-08 rifles.The industry standard for the 7mm-08 Rem is 52,000 cup. Recoil energy amounts to about 12.1 ft. lbs. shooting the 120 grain factory load in a 7.5 pound rifle, or 13.5 ft. lbs. shooting the 140 grain factory load in an 8 pound rifle.At first sales were slow, but they are picking up. The 7mm-08 is now being loaded by the big three ammo companies, and already more rifle models are being chambered for it than for the much older .280 Rem. It has earned a good reputation in the field.In terms of performance, as factory loaded by Remington, it exceeds the velocity of the 7x57 by 200 fps with the 140 grain bullet, and comes within 100 fps of the .270 Winchester. With maximum reloads it can achieve velocities within about 100 fps of the slightly larger 7x57 Mauser, and within about 200 fps of the .270 Win. (Both the 7x57 and .270 can be handloaded to higher velocities than offered by Remington factory loads.)The 120 grain bullet would be a good choice for small, light framed animals. For most big game hunting, I would select the 140 grain bullet.Remington loads a 120 grain hollow point spitzer bullet (SD .213) to a MV of 3,000 fps and ME of 2,398 ft. lbs. They load the Premier Ballistic Tip (Nosler) 140 grain BT spitzer to a MV of 2,860 fps and ME of 2,543 ft. lbs. At 200 yards the velocity of this load is 2,488 fps and the energy is 1,925 ft. lbs. The Nosler BT 140 grain spitzer has a BC of .485 and a SD of .248.With a rifle zeroed at 200 yards, both the 120 and 140 grain bullets are 2.9 inches low at 250 yards according to Remington figures. At 300 yards both bullets strike 7.3 inches low. This gives the 7mm-08 about a 275 yard point blank range on big game (where no hold-over is required).With a 200 yard zero, the drop at 300 yards is .4 inch more than a .270 (shooting the 140 grain Nosler bullet as loaded by Remington), and 1.1 inch less that the parent .308 (shooting the 165 grain Nosler bullet as loaded by Remington). This seems like a reasonable level of performance for a short action 7mm.Reloads can equal or in some cases slightly exceed the velocity of the factory loads, which are loaded pretty close to the maximum SAAMI pressure in 7mm-08. The reloader has access to bullets weighing from 110 to 195 grains. The 140 and 150 grain bullets remain the obvious choices, however.The Barnes Reloading Manual Number One gives the following loads for the 7mm-08. 43.0 grains of H414 powder gave a 140 grain bullet a MV of 2578 fps, and 47.0 grains of H414 gave a MV of 2874 fps. 40.0 grains of H414 behind a 150 grain bullet gave a MV of 2450 fps, and 44.0 grains of the same powder gave a MV of 2714 fps. These loads used Remington brass and Federal primers, and were chronographed in a 26 inch barrel.I can't summarize the 7mm-08 any better than the Barnes Reloading Manual Number One does, so I quote: "This is a sensible cartridge that efficiently burns powder to produce velocities not much less than the .270 Winchester and .280 Remington." Its performance, much like the 7x57, qualifies it for consideration as an all-around hunting cartridge."
 
#40 ·
I agree with the 7-08 crowd.
I own a Tikka and it's light.
I also agree with the 30-06 at 2400FPS crowd.
DO NOT get a muzzle brake.
Get a sims lab recoil pad.
Full speed 25-06 and .270 have huge muzzle blast and it's not necessary.
Really you could buy anything based on the .308 cartridge and do fine.
 
#41 ·
I just want to thank everyone for all the good advice. Yesterday, I ended up getting her a very lightly used Weatherby Vanguard 7mm-.08. Its light, has a synthetic stock, good safety, decent trigger. We mounted a fixed 4X power Leupold scope on it. Some shooting sticks and I think were all set!
I am looking forward to this hunt with her, more than any of my other hunts. Again thanks for all the good information.

-Adam
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top