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New Mexico Elk Hunt Experience... My letter to the Outfitter. TEXT AND PIC HEAVY

70K views 155 replies 90 participants last post by  beardbuster 
#1 ·
I went to New Mexico last week to hunt with a friend who drew unit 16D. Terrain and elk population wise, it was incredible. as for our trip... well, here is the letter I sent to the outfitter.

In a nut shell, we had a very inexperienced egotistical guide who spent 90% of his time practicing his trucker mouth. He treated us poorly (and that is putting it nicely) the trip ended with us losing a bull that we could not get back too to retrieve, two totaled trucks and a waste of thousands of dollars.

Here is the letter, and the only reason I am posting this up is so people can do some more checking before they book with a so called reputable guide.

I wanted to touch base and let you know that I was very unhappy with the events that your guide Tony put us through. I can guarantee you that the racist comments that Tony told people I said to him were absolutely false. Not sure what his problem was with us since the first morning, but I can tell you that he was the most unprofessional person I have ever had to spend any time with.

The drinking, the constant foul mouth, the attitude, and the lying. I am not sure where to begin. After he purposely drove around the guy stuck in the road during the flash flood instead of offering to help him out and wrecking his truck while holding a beer after making the statement that he “was trying to get his buzz on” was a fraction of what we encountered during our brief time with him. Simply put: it was not good.

Day One: We jump in his truck that stunk like rotten flesh, apparently he had helped his father with a bull and tossed all their wet bloody clothes in the back seat. Nothing dried and it began to smell of rotting flesh. He also informed us that he told his father to "just leave the meat" and not deal with it. We heard some bugles in the fog and then were lead to the top of a desolate hill for hours on end. When I asked “what are we doing up here?” his reply was, “I heard there was a big bull up here and we are sitting here until f-ing dark”. Needless to say, we had no food, no water and we sat in the open and both my friend and I were sunburned by the end of the day.

Tonys attitude continued and the next day with a sharp tongue and having him lead us away from several bulls. He talked my friend out of shooting a couple bulls by saying that they were “F-ing Dinks”. By this time we did not have names we were addressed as “Hey Mother F-ers”. After the hunt on the second morning, we both knew something wasn’t right.

That afternoon, we returned to a spot we hunted in the morning and had Tony purposely walk us away from bugling bulls. Eventually he found a mule deer shed antler and then began shed hunting for himself for the next 45 minutes. I asked him “whats with the nature hike?” he said “all those bulls were F-ing Dinks and its too late to go after them”. Instead we walked further away from the elk and eventually I spotted a herd down a hill.

The bull in the heard was a respectable 320 class. I mentioned that we should go after him and his reply was “that bull is a f-ing dink, I’m not wasting my time on that f-ing dink”. I told him, “this is "MY FRIENDS" tag, it is his decision to shoot or not to shoot and I have a feeling that you are purposely dry hunting us.” Tony was silent.

That night as we were at camp standing near the cook tent. Tony leaned over to Lance, (the other guide) and began talking trash about Rocky and myself. I mentioned the nature hike and he told Lance “yeah, they **** me off so I may have taken them on a hike for a bit” as he laughed and drank his beer. Class act. During this day also, Tony told Ed, the cook that My Friend and I were racist and that we did not like Mexicans. I found this out the next morning when I decided to ride with Ed to the hunting spot and we had a talk. He mentioned what Tony had said, I assured him that those statements were false.

Next morning. Its raining pretty good as we get out of the truck. We head up a hill towards some bugling elk. We get closer and without fail, every time a bull would bugle he would walk us the other direction. By this time, his antics were getting very old. We had a bull bugling about 200 yards in front of us and instead of trying to get a look at him, he would purposely get the wind to our backs and walk the other direction. Finally I asked him “what are we doing? We have had at least 4 bulls in close and you keep taking us in the opposite direction”?

His reply was, “that sounds like a f-ing dink”... Could have guessed that.

We move a little further and get close to a decent 6x5. A big heavy bull about 150 yards in front of us. Continuing up the hill we top out near an open grassy bowl filled with elk. There was a gorgeous 5x5 that put on quite a show. This 5x5 was very dominate and probably pushed the 300 inch mark. My Friend admired the bull and as I stayed my distance from Tony, I could here Tony with his usual banter and comments. Talking My Friend out of making a game plan for a shot.

The bull eventually walked by us and it would have been a 40 yard shot. We spotted another bull up the hill and continued on. We did have an opportunity at a respectable bull at 38 yards. My Friends peep twisted on his string and there was no second opportunity to settle his pin on the bull. We moved over the hill and sat down listening to bulls bugle in every direction.

Tony stands up and says “well, lets head back to camp”. I say “what are you talking about? There are elk going nuts in every direction and you want to walk away! We punch more tags between 10am and 2pm every year, these are prime to be killed”.

“Well” Tony replies, “these elk are different, and if you don’t think I know what I am f-ing doing then why dont you f-ing do it”! Then he storms off the hill leaving us sitting there on the log. Ed who had joined us that morning finally got a chance to see what we had been putting up with the entire time.

We catch up with Tony down at the bottom of the hill and have a little Pow Wow. We let him know that we are simply asking him “WHY” as none of his actions have made any sense as we walk away from elk after elk and it seems purposely. After a quick chat we shake hands and begin the hike out. For the next 2.5 hours everything seems ok.

Back to camp and we plan to return to the hill where we left the elk.

That afternoon, we drive out the weather is good as we make our way back to the hill. The elk are already talking as we park. A bull bugles twice behind us and instead of working towards him to check him out... We walk away from him. The bull was within 200 yards.

We work our way up the road and climb a couple hills. Another bull bugles off to our left so we keep moving to the right, walking away from him. I’m thinking “Here we go again”.

We move down a hill and a big bull begins to bugle and work our way, this bull is very vulnerable and could have been dead in two calls. I’m instructed NOT to make a sound as I see the elk move towards us. Tony does not call and the bull moves up over the hill. I snap a couple pictures of the bull as he crests the hill about 300 yards away.

We move up the hill and eventually get on a few bulls going nuts. We are about 200 yards and in the heat of the action, Tony sits down. “Lets see if they feed by” he says. My Friend and I look at each other and are perplexed with the absolute laziness that we have been stuck with.

After about 15 minutes the elk are still going nuts. I hear one bull advancing and tell Tony that we need to set up. My Friend and I move forward and as the bulls continue to bugle and carry on I look back at Tony and he is sitting by a tree. I motion for him to cow call and he gives a couple really soft calls barely heard through the rain coming down now. I give him the THUMBS UP sign to increase the volume and not much happens. The bulls move back a little bit so Rocky and I advance closer. We look back at Tony and he comes walking up with a couple shed antlers.

We make a quick plan to set up again and this time Tony seems more in tune with calling to the elk. We set up and with in a few minutes a bull closes the distance to 31 yards. Rockys shot is on target and his arrow buries in the chest of the 6x6. I watch the bull run, stumble and then pass a big oak before dropping in the ravine. Not wanting to push the bull, we mark the elk on the GPS and place some ribbons on the tree where we shot, and where we found the broken arrow. The rain was coming down hard at this point and any blood wash quickly washed away.

Walking out we feel confident that the bull has expired. It takes us about an hour and a half of hiking over ridges to get back to our road. The rain had stopped as we unloaded our wet packs and jumped in the truck. Tony had a cooler of beer and asked if I wanted one. “Sure” I replied and he tosses me a Bud Light. He grabs two and jumps in the front seat. Im thinking of the conversation that Ed, the cook had with My Friend and I about Tony being told not to drink until the clients are safely back at camp. Shaking my head, I jump in the back seat of the truck. Its a slow wet, sloppy road and we work our way down. There is one stretch were Tony is driving with one hand and holding his beer in the other. We begin to slide to the left and start to sink. After tossing out quite a few profanities and gunning the truck we eventually make it through the mess and back on the road. It would have been a long walk back to camp.

We hit the main line and My Friend jumps out of the front seat to open the barbed wire gate. Tony looks back and me and says “You want another beer”? I reply, “I’m good” as I have only drank about half of the one I have. He looks back again and states “Im trying to get my buzz on” and grabs two more beers. Once again, my mind says... Class act.

We head down the road and you can tell it had rained, quite a bit. We continue down the road and there is a log 3/4 of the way across the road. “That’s odd” I’m thinking and then around the next corner, “DAMN” the creek had breached and there was water over the road. We continue on as Tony finishes his third beer and opens his fourth. Now we are driving down a river in what used to be the road and it has a very fast current. The water is up to the middle of the tires as we push along. Eventually we see a tail lights in the road. We move closer and you can tell there is someone trying to get our attention. We pull to about 40 yards behind the truck and on our right hand side is a man dressed in camouflage saying “You better stop, I have been here for over two hours and its not getting any better. My truck is taller than yours and its stuck. If you can put a chain on my bumper and pull me out, we can both drive outta here”.

The water is getting higher and Tony pay the guy zero regard. He looks at the guy and states “You don’t think I can get by”? And with one hand on the steering wheel and the other clutching his beer, guns the truck advancing to the left of the already stuck truck. Tonys truck slides on its drivers side and tips up against the bank immediately submerged as water begins to fill the cab from the driver side. My Friend and are are sitting on the passenger side of the truck and begin grabbing our gear.

I ask Tony “What the hell were you thinking”? It was very apparent that he had zero intentions of helping the stranded hunter. Tonys realization that he just pulled off the biggest bonehead move in history were apparent with the constant cussing and cursing of his truck. Granted it was less F-Bombs than he would say in an average sentence.

The truck is leaning ant an extreme angle, I have the back door propped on my back as I’m gathering my camera gear and what I feel is the most important. My Friend gathers himself and is yelling at Tony. “Hey, do you want this?” As he lifts Tonys pistol towards him. He grabs the pistol and then says “F- it, its ruined lets go”. My Friend and I climb out of the truck as the water is absolutely raging below. I climb in to the back of the truck that is littered with trash and empty beer cans from Tony drinking and tossing them on to the top and they would slide into the bed.

My Friend and I get onto the bank and snap a few photos of the truck and the mayhem. Looking around, Tony is GONE! Down the road a few hundred yards we can make out a light, its him walking away and leaving us to fend for ourselves. The other hunter has a pretty good attitude for almost having some idiot smash into his truck. He comes up and says, “Looks like we have a long walk ahead” and extends his hand. “Im Kevin”. We shake hands and apologize for the the mess. He asks who the other guy is and we say “He’s our GUIDE”. “Your Guide? And he just left you”??. I state that it has been an interesting few days with him.

The rain stops and we walk down the middle of the road with is about knee deep in most spots and up to our waist in others. I am 6’2 and My Friend is 6’4... It was deep. Eventually we meet up with Tony and he has this recollection that it was just an unfortunate accident. We say nothing. I am not pleased, and at the same time, not surprised.

We walk about an hour and eventually see some head lights in the road. As we advance, its Ed. We wade our way up the truck and let him know that he cannot go any further. The road is narrow and we have to make a 48 point turn in his truck. We would stand at the corners and tell him to stop and the shoulders of the road would begin to sink. The only way we could do this was by standing in the water and feeling the mud sink.

We turned the truck around and jumped in the back. The water was still moving rapidly but we were on our way to camp. More headlights began to move towards us. A big truck in the lead began to drift towards the shoulder and sunk. He was stuck. We turned the truck around behind him and Kevin jumped in back to try and make some calls where he could gather cell reception. We eventually got the trailer and truck unstuck and turned around with the help of Ed, My Friend and Myself. Tony stood on the side of the road with his hands in his pockets the entire time.

We get back to camp at 12:30 am. Grab some food and get Kevin a dry place to sleep for the night. Our other hunter Shawn was still unaccounted for with his guide Lance. At 1:30, Shawn arrived at camp, alone. The rain and lightning came in hard and I believe it was 330am before I could finally sleep. Shawn said that Lances truck had been stuck in a hole from one of the creeks. He tried help Lance but eventually began to try and convince Lance that they needed to make the 6 mile trek back to camp. Lance refused to leave and Shawn hiked out alone. Another great guide who put his client in harms way to save a 1992 4-Runner over the safety of a human life.

The next morning we woke and still no Lance. Shawns bow was in the back of Lances rig and My Friends Bow was locked in a case in the back of Tonys submerged truck. We had some breakfast and tried to make a plan. My Friend Shawn and myself drove to Apache Creek to shower and wash the mud out of our clothes using Shawns Rental truck. The Jeep we rented had about 5% tread and slipped all over the place. It was not safe to drive in these conditions.

Tony had been drinking all morning. By the time we left, he had about 8 beers in him. He knew we were going to town and asked My Friend to buy him beer. My Friend refused and then Tony asked me. He wanted a 30 pack of Bud Light and some Coke for the full bottle of Crown that Shawn had in camp. My thinking “what the hell, you cant hurt anyone if you’re stuck in camp”. So I took the money and brought him back the beer.

During our drive we decided that we needed to retrieve the bows. We knew at this point that there was no retrieving My Friends bull and the feeling was beginning to set in. We had a state game officer show up in camp and the consensus was that My Friend could hunt if he chose too, but either way we needed to get the gear and items left in the truck.

About 2:30pm we put back on our wet boots and headed down the road to retrieve the bows. It was Shawn, My Friend, Myself and Ed; the cook. I must admit that Ed was the constant bright spot in all of this. Even though his portions on his cooking were slim, his heart and determination were to ensure everything went smoothly was great.

Our guide, Tony, stayed in camp and drank. Half the bottle of Crown was gone by this time. Throughout all this mess, I was always cordial to Tony. I asked him a couple times about getting in touch with his insurance. His comment was “I called my agent but he is hunting”. I mentioned that there is a hotline number where you can report accidents. His comment was, he will call me back when he’s done hunting.* My first inclination; this guy has been driving us around with no insurance. I am almost positive I am right. My Friend asked Tony of there was anything that he wanted from the truck. “Nope, just leave it as it is”. Ok, replied My Friend and we left it at that.

We plowed through the water and made it back to the trucks. Kevin was already there shoveling for the previous 6 hours and slowly inching his truck to freedom. I jumped in the back seat and grab the rest of my gear that wasn’t soaked in mud. My Friend took a brief look in the front seat and there was Tonys GPS, some optics, more gear and in the center console, Tony’s wallet with his ID and credit cards.

Rocky said “look here” and lifted it up. “Oh crap”, I replied and asked if he was going to bring it out. Rocky said, “I asked him if he wanted anything and he said, NO”. The wallet went back in the console and was closed. We began the hike out carrying Rockys bow case and bow.

Ed and Shawn continued up the road to try and find Lance. Ed packed in some food and the idea was to have Lance come out with them. They returned later and Lance refused to come out with them. Shawn did retrieve his bow.

We made it back to camp at 530 and decided to take a drive to get away from camp. Tony was still drinking. As we went to leave, Tony asked to tag along. We couldn’t go too far as the tires on our rental had zero tread. A short drive we spot 49 elk on a hill side with a couple good bulls. It was a random sighting, lucky is more like it. Tony pipes up with a plan of how we will make a stalk on these elk in the middle of a wide open hill side. I asked how this was going to happen and he says “You ever hunt antelope, I hope you can shoot 80 yards”!

So Now, we have a guy who has made all the wrong moves everyday, comes out here with us and is trying to push his “client” into shooting past his comfort zone, all for the sake of trying to salvage a hunt. Bare in mind, that My Friend has an extended knee, bad ankles and a torn muscle in his calf from walking through the water. These elk are on a wide open grassy plain and the thought of sneaking up to them as they “feed by” has about as much validity of Tony thinking he could have made it past the truck in the road.

We continue to look for more elk or a better situation. Nothing. Tony pipes up and says “I’m really surprised we saw anything there tonight” which confirms he had zero plan. If he was a stand up guide many things would not have happened. He would never have talked to us the way he did. There would have been some sort of respect for the people paying his bills/salary. He would ensured that we had food and water and was comfortable. He would have never talked smack about his clients to the other guides, told Ed that we were racist, Lied to the owner and told him that I called him a “DIRTY MEXICAN”, and even if the flood would have taken over the truck he would have made sure that our safety and well being was the first priority.

Back in camp even with out a truck there was still opportunities. Rocky was there to hunt, I was there to document a hunt for EXTREME ELK. We mentioned a spot behind camp and Tony said “Go back there if you want but I didn’t see sh*t back there so good luck”.

Shawn had his bow with him and now that there was only one opportunity at the elk that we found, and a poor one at that we began to talk. Tony came into our tent to pour himself another drink (crown). Then turns around as we are watching him and like a football coach says “OK, so here is the plan tomorrow. We need to sneak up on those elk and when say sneak, I mean sneak and we need to be low. Low like the f-ing grass low, due to the circumstances this is the only opportunity we have”.


I shook my head and said “What do you mean due to the circumstances”? I mentioned that I was going to sit this one out. Four people crawling though the grass is not going to work. If I can take myself and give My Friend or Shawn a better chance then there was no reason for me to be there. On top of that, these elk were 300 yards from private ground. No guarantees that these elk would be there by morning. Tony quickly replied back “my truck man, my truck is f-ed up… you were there”!

I then replied. “The only reason we are in this circumstance is because someone asked you, begged you not to go past them and help get them out so both rigs could drive out. You with all your infinite wisdom decided that it was smart to take your drunken self, with us in the vehicle and tear past this guy who you had zero intentions of helping and totaled your truck with us in it. YOU are the reason we are in this circumstance”!

He grabbed his drink and left the tent. My Friend decided that it was time to leave this circus behind and punched his tag out of respect for the animal we could not retrieve. This was Saturday night, our flights were scheduled for Tuesday.

On Sunday morning we told Ed that we were packing up and heading to Albuquerque. The hunt was over. After all the problems that we had with Tony, he was sent out to take Shawn hunting. He should have been fired on the spot. As Tony and Shawn drove past us on the way to another spot, I thought this should be interesting. Here is a guide with no wallet, no cash and the client is using his rental and his money to finish the hunt. Classy.

On the way out, we met up with Jimmy, a guide they had sent for us. I wish we had Jimmy the whole time. He was very professional, clean, excited to hunt and very apologetic for the few days we had to endure with Tony.

We drove back to Albuquerque and purchased new tickets for the flight home resulting in an additional $200 fee to change and cancel the ticket for myself alone. Hotel and fees on top of this to ensure that we could return home and try and wash this hunt from our minds.

We took over 1000 pictures while in the field. Tony asked for some of the images to send to his insurance agent. The pictures of the truck submerged show the beer cans all over it. I never sent him any images, Rocky neither.

This is the true account of what happened. I did leave some things out, but you get the idea of how it went. I am not sure what your plans are for Tony but I can assure you that no one deserves to be treated the way that we were after spending the money we did for this hunt.


I emailed it and heard nothing back. The email was sent to Cabelas and will be sent to the New Mexico Guides and Outfitters Association.

Some pics:

in order: begin of trip












just before being told we needed to head to camp. we were watching 4 bulls







the flood:






Excellent driving Tony










luckily it had stopped raining for the walk out. It began again around 11pm and poured buckets all night

the next day:














Heading back to camp. It rained twice as hard this night.
 
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#97 ·
I would probably give him two weeks to make full refund of the trip. Then make my complaint if he hasn't. I bet there is a clock ticking for your complaint related to his bond, license or contracts etc.
 
#100 ·
Four days, tops.

Think of the hunters who might avoid a nightmare like yours based on how you proceed.


P
 
#99 ·
To little to late. Damage is done. We only get so many seasons to hunt then our final season comes. Taking away a once in a lifetime hunt and endangering peoples lifes is over the edge.

What if that had been an older mans last hunt? A lot of what ifs run through my head and this guide and the outfitter who hired him need to be hit hard.

It sounds like hitting him through cabelas is where its going to hurt the most.

Go for the throat and rip it out.
 
#101 ·
Wow...now the facebook posts make sense. Sorry about that whole deal Wil, even more sorry to your buddy. Sounds like you are taking the correct actions. Ive got a feeling we are gonna see that outfitter push it all onto his "Guide". Maybe that is how it should happen, maybe not. I trust you would know best.
 
#104 ·
A thug? Sounds more like a coward, if he cant own up to his crappy driving, and lies about someone making racist remarks... Sounds like the kid deserves an ass whoopin, he will get it someday Im sure.
 
#108 ·
To all: I am the "friend" the one with the NM Unit 16d tag. I am currently keeping my mouth shut regarding the hunt. I have spoke with the outfitter and have given him to the end of the month to make things right.

I do want to point out that, I have been fortunate to hunt the world. I've hunted along side literally hundreds of guides. There are good ones and bad ones. You just have to figure out how to work with them, how to read them and make them work for you.

The facts my friend has stated are true, however butting heads over every little thing is not the way to get things done in the field. Our guide is still a "kid", he needs to grow up and learn how to handle himself in many situations. I don't always agree or want to follow through with some guides methods. But, hey we all hunt differently and have our own tactics. This guides tactics were totally different than my friends, therefore the head butting started. Now this does not excuse his Drinking, and lack of care for his clients around camp, in the field and during the adventures flash flood we endured.

I go on hunts to have an adventures, to experience the great outdoors. Shooting an animal is a bonus for me. Am I disappointed in the service and not bringing home the meat and trophy, ABSOLUTELY! But, I saw a lot of bulls, I even shot a nice bull. If the flood had not come we would have retrieved the animal and I would have gone home happy and forgot about this "Guide". But the situation changed and caused even more tensions and stress to the situation.

Again, Am I unhappy about the total situation? YES. Should there be some sort of restoration by the Booking Agency and Outfitter? YES.
But I got my ADVENTURE! Therefore I would like for all of this to just be behind us now, as the constant blogs, emails, etc....are really dragging down the joy and memories I did have sharing an Adventure with a friend.
 
#109 ·
Again, Am I unhappy about the total situation? YES. Should there be some sort of restoration by the Booking Agency and Outfitter? YES.
But I got my ADVENTURE! Therefore I would like for all of this to just be behind us now, as the constant blogs, emails, etc....are really dragging down the joy and memories I did have sharing an Adventure with a friend.
Sounds like you have the right mind set. Things happen...this was not a Make a Wish hunt or someones FINAL steps in the world.....life goes on. Most of us deal with idiots every day and you either stick it out with them or MOVE on.

And now that "your" adventure was posted you can count on hearing nothing but constant blogs, emails, etc......sometimes its best to handle things in the old way.....lol.

And I think it is easy to understand an employee does not define a corporation....imo....
 
#110 ·
This may rock the boat a little but here goes. I have been on a number of guided hunts here and in Africa, as the hunter and nonhunter alike. And in all cases the non hunter did not have any say in tactics, period. If what the guide wanted to do was alright with the hunter the discussion was over, and there was never any need to make a big deal about it.

I am not in no way excussing the drinking or other problems, but if everything started because the non hunter had problems with how the guide wanted to hunt then some of the blame rests with him.
 
#111 ·
Thats not how it all started. I would be willing to bet that when someone treats with total disrespect from the beginning, and walked you around in circles Im sure you would ask questions too. We allowed our GUIDE to hunt his way, every day. the results of his abilities are listed above.
 
#113 ·
At first I was completely sympathic with your cause, however after reading this.


"The facts my friend has stated are true, however butting heads over every little thing is not the way to get things done in the field. Our guide is still a "kid", he needs to grow up and learn how to handle himself in many situations. I don't always agree or want to follow through with some guides methods. But, hey we all hunt differently and have our own tactics. This guides tactics were totally different than my friends, therefore the head butting started. Now this does not excuse his Drinking, and lack of care for his clients around camp, in the field and during the adventures flash flood we endured."

Not so much. As stated I have been on a number of guided trips as hunter and non hunter. Sorry but your friend was the client, it was HIS trip.

In fact unless he wanted you to led support to his story it was kind of marginal for you to even contact the outfitter on your own. Your friend sounds like a very level head individual and I am sure he could get this settled on his own.
 
#115 ·
In fact unless he wanted you to led support to his story it was kind of marginal for you to even contact the outfitter on your own.
Just because he did not carry the bow, doesn't mean he was not a paying client.

Overall, it's less about the tactics of hunting and more about how the guide treated both the hunter and the guest. And, the response of the outfitter to this point.

I think both of them have the right to hold these folks accountable to what took place.
 
#114 ·
BW...

When someone puts your life in their hands and has total disregard for your well being. Please don't do anything to stand up for yourself. Just tuck your tail between your legs and allow whatever to happen to happen. After all, you're just lucky to be there.

If this is your stance on things, then I have an idea of where you can apply for a job. You will fit right in and the weather is great this time of year.

Here's the key no matter the situation. Take accountability for your actions, be a good representative for your employer, do the best job possible no matter what the situation may be. Sorry you don't see things that way.
 
#116 · (Edited)
BW...

When someone puts your life in their hands and has total disregard for your well being. Please don't do anything to stand up for yourself. Just tuck your tail between your legs and allow whatever to happen to happen. After all, you're just lucky to be there.

If this is your stance on things, then I have an idea of where you can apply for a job. You will fit right in and the weather is great this time of year.

Here's the key no matter the situation. Take accountability for your actions, be a good representative for your employer, do the best job possible no matter what the situation may be. Sorry you don't see things that way.

I am utterly stunned at the complete incompetence and lack of professionalism by this guide and outfitter. Wil you have much more patience than I. This is the worst outfitter/guided hunt I have ever heard of. Thanks for sharing your story.
 
#118 ·
On a positive note: We have received a phone call from ED who was our cook in camp. He was unaware of the goings on until recently and quickly made a phone call to both my friend and myself apologizing for the ordeal with the Guide. As mentioned in the original email that was sent, my biggest beef was with the poor treatment for the GUIDE who was unfortunately our only reference to the outfitter. The Outfitter has also called is has promised to what he can within his means as BROADSIDE mentioned.

Ive have been laying low purposely to allow them to do what they need to do on their end to make things correct. They seem willing to do so, so like someone mentioned - squeaky wheel.

I'll put up some other pics from the trip shortly. As you will see BROADSIDE and myself always have a smile on our face and for those who do know us can attest that we are very easy going and easy to get along with. No ego's and usually no drama.

Sometimes things happen for a reason before a problem can be brought to the surface. Wake up call... maybe? but the wheel is turning.
 
#119 ·
Last post on this. Not at all letting the guide off the hook on the drinking or other behavioral issues.

I am saying it appears you, more than your friend may have been what got him started. It seems this guide has a lot of growing up to do and he without a doubt was a bad ambassador for his employer.

I am saying that your friend is the one that drew the tag, and it was his hunt. When My wife wanted to hunt bear on the Qunault, I went along the same as you. She had an issue with what the guide wanted to do, so I told her she would need to speak up and let him know about it. She did and problem was solved.

If you friend had a problem it should have been his place to speak up. If the guide wanted to leave elk to look some place else your friend should have said something not you. If your friend said nothing, well maybe there was a reason.

Done with this
 
#120 ·
The old saying never guide the guide....comes to mind. However not in this case. Wil is a very accomplished elk hunter in his own right and if he had thoughts and suggestions about how to pursue these bulls why not speak up. I know I would have... actually on about the second day I would have said to drop me off here and come pick me up here at dark if you are sober enough. I don’t hunt around drunks and certainly would not allow a guide to drink and run me around. It is hard to imagine these conditions to hunt in and I really do not know what I would do if I was in the same situation. I hope they make it right for you and your friend Wil... I know some are saying that you were not the hunter... I don’t buy it. You were there too, maybe not to hunt but to document the hunt and take your amazing photo's. I bet when they look back they will regret what transpired and clearly see how beneficial this hunt could have been for this outfitter had they done a few things differently and treated you with respect. After all having a great hunting experience documented in Extreme Elk would have brought them lots of business.

Good luck Wil, and Broadside.

 
#121 ·
It sounds as if the HUNTER has already got his eyes on the next hunt....good for him.

And if I remember Extreme Elk is about DIY so doubt this hunt will make the cut.
 
#122 ·
For those who are hammering on Wil, that since he wasn't the hunter that he doesn't or shouldn't have a complaint or a gripe, I think that is wrong.

He was affected by the overall experience, just as the hunter was.

Being called a racist, having your life threatened, being talked down to, being called a jerk. I don't care if I'm hunting or not hunting. I'm a man, and won't be talked to that way, lied about or treated with so much disrespect.

This isn't about a hunting trip. This is about paying for a service, and being treated like dirt.

How does anyone know that he didn't pay as a non-hunting guest? We have paying non-hunters in our camps all the time, and they are treated with the same respect as the full paid hunter.
 
#125 ·
Thank You Shay,

This is exactly what I was getting at before BW started his rant. There comes a time when you just have to stand up and be treated the way that you treat people. In no way shape or form was BROADSIDE or myself , rude or demeaning to the guide. I gave him his space, I allowed him to hunt the way he wanted too and many, many times when I didnt agree with the process I simply followed along in the back, well out of the way of BROADSIDE and the guide. BROADSIDE would look back at me and I would shrug my shoulders and continue on with my camera in hand.

I was there to observe, take photos and do what I could as a guest. NOW, when someone has a huge chip on their shoulder down talks you to the point that youre incompetent, ignores the request of the hunter and laughs to the other guide in camp that he is purposely DRY HUNTING you... you are not a GUIDE any more and the representation you are leaving for your company or business associated with is very very poor.

SHAY gets it. He is a guide, a packer and a true outdoorsman with a professional attitude and the success to back it up. If our GUIDE had a shred of the knowledge or integrity of the people at DEL SOL this would be an entirely different outcome.
 
#123 ·
I personally think the guides should listen to the customers and their guests. Everyone has a different way of doing things and it never hurts anyone to talk about different strategies and make the most educated decision that can be made. I have never been on a real guided hunt, however I would like to think that I would listen to my guide (since he is supposed to be the expert) but I would also like to think that since I am the one paying the guide would listen to me and my friends. A little humility can go a long way and from the sounds of it this guide is a know it all kid.
 
#127 ·
Beardbuster,

This almost reminds me of a guided hunt that my family went on in Montana two years before I could hunt. The whole family went on a deer/elk combo, saw three bucks the whole time, one cow elk, lots lots of bighorn, and tons of snow. The hunt took place during Thanksgiving so you'd assume you would see a few more buck since it was the rut, but not so much, between 8 hunters there was only three bucks killed and no elk. The funny thing is, on the last day of the hunt, my dad got to talking to one of the guides that was taking guys out on horses and in a round about way we found out he was some of my mom's relation that we'd never met. Nedless to say that was enough for him to turn the Outfitter in for selling bogus hunts, which he mentioned later on, and the Outfitter lost his license.

Good luck with everything, and good things will happen!!!
 
#129 ·
I personally have heard nothing. I have the paperwork to file a formal complaint. I was waiting to see what they were going to do, but with the silence I think I already have my answer. I will be filling out the forms today for the New Mexico Guide Council and mailing it back it. Two complaints, one against the guide and one against the outfitter. Who knows what will happen...
 
#130 ·
Good for you. Stick to your guns.


P
 
#132 ·
UPDATE:

No bull returned from outfitter, no phone calls returned from outfitter, they asked to give them to the 7th to make it all right... almost a month past the date of the hunt. Cabelas has been informed and complaints filed.

Since I was a third party on the hunt, my complaints have been filed against the outfitter and guide with the state of New Mexico. if anyone knows of a good lawyer who thinks this may have a case... PM me please.
 
#148 ·
That really sucks and it's unfortunate what you experienced.....but I got to ask you....at what point do you stand up for yourself? When do you say enough is enough? What the hell....I would allow no man to disrespect me like that, you can't continue to enable individuals to step all over you.....a couple rolls of duct tape and a tree, and problem with Tony would have been solved....and I'm not kidding around!
 
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