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-   -   Alvins: Siwash or Treble? (http://www.ifish.net/board/showthread.php?t=120381)

Rusty 07-05-2006 12:20 PM

Alvins: Siwash or Treble?
 
Grrrr! Today I lost a Summer Chinook on an Alvin. I was using the "factory supplied" single siwash hook which I had just sharpened. Grrr! :depressed: :shocked:

Anyhow, what do you think? Should I change to a treble hook? A few of the boats in my line said I should be using treble hooks, but I've never had a problem with siwash before.

Opinions please. Grrr!

Rusty

wannacatchem 07-05-2006 12:24 PM

Re: Alvins: Siwash or Treble?
 
I put Owner trebles on all of mine. Why give them a chance?

Tyeebuster 07-05-2006 12:29 PM

Re: Alvins: Siwash or Treble?
 
Gami 5/0 or 6/0 siwash for me. Seems to have simular results as the treble. Have lost fish on both :shrug:

5-Cents 07-05-2006 12:39 PM

Re: Alvins: Siwash or Treble?
 
I use owner trebbles on mine... I do have a few rigged up with Gami siwash hooks for when the current is slow and you need to loose some lure weight but my wobblers that are proven killers all have trebbles. :cheers:

rileyusmc 07-05-2006 12:48 PM

Re: Alvins: Siwash or Treble?
 
I use both depending on current,but sometimes you do everything right and still lose them.That's why they call it fishin' :grin:

jokester 07-05-2006 01:27 PM

Re: Alvins: Siwash or Treble?
 
Quote:

Gami 5/0 or 6/0 siwash for me.

:yeahthat: You might hook more with trebles, but I think you've got a better chance at landing the ones you hook with siwashes!! :smash: JMO...

Quote:

but sometimes you do everything right and still lose them.That's why they call it fishin' :grin:


Unfortunately, this is true also :grin:

-jokester

Riverkeeper 07-05-2006 01:32 PM

Re: Alvins: Siwash or Treble?
 
SIWASH all the way.

Teton 07-05-2006 01:42 PM

Re: Alvins: Siwash or Treble?
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

I put Owner trebles on all of mine. Why give them a chance?

:yeahthat:

ibgrizz 07-05-2006 01:47 PM

Re: Alvins: Siwash or Treble?
 
I like siwash for most of the time. But some times i will put a 5x 5/0 vmc on them to slow the action down a little it seems to get bigger fish when we do that :cheers:

FishinTechnician 07-05-2006 01:49 PM

Re: Alvins: Siwash or Treble?
 
You are going to loose fish to both. If you solidly hook a fish with a Siwash odds are that the fish will stay hooked. On the other hand not all well hooked fish on trebles will stay hooked. Picture hooking a fish in both the upper and lower jaw with two hooks of the treble. The fish can simply open its mouth and simultaeneously tear both hooks out of its own jaw. It will happen. Unfortunately, we'll never know how often that actually happens, but it does happen.

5-Cents 07-05-2006 02:21 PM

Re: Alvins: Siwash or Treble?
 
To follow up on what everyone is saying here there is something else to consider when using wobblers.

If you are using braided line or super line I would suggest fishing a loose drag as you want the fish to take the wobbler and have enough play to turn and run with the bait and then you want to set the hook. Spinners are all hook but a wobbler requires a lighter drag... let the fish pound away but dont set that hook until the rod stays down with line steadily coming off the reel. Same is true with herring... hard thing to learn but once you do you should have a very high bite to land ratio. :cheers:

trizzie 07-05-2006 02:43 PM

Re: Alvins: Siwash or Treble?
 
Quote:

If you are using braided line or super line I would suggest fishing a loose drag as you want the fish to take the wobbler and have enough play to turn and run with the bait and then you want to set the hook.

:yeahthat: Good advice.

I've gone six for six fishing Owner 2/0 trebles on my wobblers. That certainly isn't enough evidence to say that trebles are the only way to go, but it has been working for me :cheers:

Stz ll 07-05-2006 03:09 PM

Re: Alvins: Siwash or Treble?
 
Large Siwash. We always replace the one that come on it with a 6/0 Mustad # 9510 hook. We lose very few fish using this hook. You get a much better hook set with the siwash. They usually are buried in the fish. I have lost to many using treble hooks.

I have convinced several other people who have fished with me who used to use trebles but not any longer.

husker 07-05-2006 03:41 PM

Re: Alvins: Siwash or Treble?
 
in the team husker boat its all about the hookset.....i have lost fish on both setups......i fish nothing but owners......siwash and trebles.....its all in where the hook lands....if its in the cheek...dead fish...if its in the bone.......50/50....if u can puncture the bone you will have to bend the hook to get it out

imho.....

D-tangle 07-05-2006 05:39 PM

Re: Alvins: Siwash or Treble?
 
I have both treble and siwash on my Alvins. I use what makes the lure look best according to water speed and wobble. I like to start with color, but will change if the wobble is too fast. The 2/0 Owners are a heavy hook and slow the action down in quicker water. Color and action both count. Last week they only hit the chrome/blue in our line. Good luck.

shaggy357 07-05-2006 05:46 PM

Re: Alvins: Siwash or Treble?
 
Siwash!

Trebles are a pain to release a nate and they good hooked in the net easier.

I have gami's on mine. Keeping them sharp. Now trying to settle barb vs no barb. No barb suppose to penetrate bone and harder parts of mouth when barbed hook will not. Any comments on this?

Steve

FishinMission 07-05-2006 06:22 PM

Re: Alvins: Siwash or Treble?
 
I use trebles. And razor sharp ones at that. I think a more important consideration is the strengh of your rod tip. I like to use "beef sticks"...a rod that has a firm tip, that will bury the hooks from the get go. Limber tips= a softer, less sure hookset IMHO . Often these fish won't fold your rod when they hit...so when that initial strike happens..it's good to get your hook barb in some meat or bone.


Mark

ToolBoy 07-05-2006 11:24 PM

Re: Alvins: Siwash or Treble?
 
Quote:

If you are using braided line or super line I would suggest fishing a loose drag

My grand dad from OC would say terrible advice :twocents:

Loose drag with wobblers means many fish lost that are never hooked when they would have hooked themselves on the first takedown. :twocents:

Paul Toolson

grantfish 07-06-2006 06:05 AM

Re: Alvins: Siwash or Treble?
 
HEY I THINK THAT THE SIWASH IS A REALLY GOOD CHOICE BUT THE TREBEL HS MORE STRENGHT. YES THIS MIGHT SOUND WEIERD BUT TREBEL HOOKS ARE WELDED AND THEY HAVE A BETTER FISH CATCHING ABILITY BECAUSE WHEN A FISH EATS IT THE THREE HOOKS ACK AS A TRAP. WHEN THE ANGELER PULLS THE HOOK TRIES TO GRAB EVERY THING ANG GETS STUCK AND A SIWASH ONLY DOES IT ON ONE PART OF THE FISH SO YOU DO THE MATH.
TREBEL: THREE HOOKS <--------- THIS
SIWASH: ONE HOOK

<u>FISH 4 LIFE</u> :yeahthat: :cheers:

grantfish 07-06-2006 09:52 AM

Re: Alvins: Siwash or Treble?
 
what about spyder wire? :argue:

grantfish 07-06-2006 09:54 AM

Re: Alvins: Siwash or Treble?
 
5/0 Treble on my Slab Spoon, you'll never second guess it

NW JET'N 07-06-2006 10:37 AM

Re: Alvins: Siwash or Treble?
 
Quote:

Quote:

If you are using braided line or super line I would suggest fishing a loose drag

My grand dad from OC would say terrible advice :twocents:

Loose drag with wobblers means many fish lost that are never hooked when they would have hooked themselves on the first takedown. :twocents:

Paul Toolson

Not to be mean but do you have any idea how well Mr. Nickel does? I am no expert on wobbler fishin but if he told me to hit freespool when that fish hit you can bet money I'd do it. I've fished next to him using wobblers and was serioulsy schooled. :help:

JIMBOUY 07-06-2006 10:51 AM

Re: Alvins: Siwash or Treble?
 
My :twocents: Gami, #5 treble. "On all my wobblers, I tune them to the water speed for proper action.

Fisher16 07-06-2006 05:03 PM

Re: Alvins: Siwash or Treble?
 
Quote:

Not to be mean but do you have any idea how well Mr. Nickel does?

Mr. Nickel may catch alot of fish but there are people that do just as well and believe it or not some that do BETTER :bigshock: with a TIGHT drag that let the fish hook themselves on the initial strike. A TIGHT drag is how I was shown how to do it and so far it has worked great with both siwash and treble hooks. Just keep them SHARP! VERY FEW LOST/MISSED FISH!!! Usually when they take it they take it well enough to hook themselves with a tight drag. Besides that with a tight drag you dont have to check/strip it every 5 minutes and listen to the clicker going off all the time unless there is actually a fish on it! :jester: :grin: :wink:

My :twocents:

Pagorits 07-06-2006 05:39 PM

Re: Alvins: Siwash or Treble?
 
Jimbouy, what is the 'proper action", I've always ued spinners and am new to wobblers.

MattPark 07-06-2006 05:43 PM

Re: Alvins: Siwash or Treble?
 
A good starting point for proper action would be to make sure your wobbler isn't going in a circle in fast current.

Viktim29 07-06-2006 06:11 PM

Re: Alvins: Siwash or Treble?
 
The Real question when running Owner Trebles is, "Cutting Point??..or Super Needle Point???.." Have never fished an Alvin or ANY Wobbler for that matter with a Siwash hook on it..So guess i cant comment on how they work...LOl

Silver Hilton 07-06-2006 07:59 PM

Re: Alvins: Siwash or Treble?
 
I think the siwash is the better hook. Once a fish is solidly hooked on a siwash, he's usually in the net. Trebles hook a few more of the strikes, but many, many more fish on the trebles come loose, especially on kwikfish.

I'll also go out on a limb and say that I don't think you need to get too fancy on the hooks. The stock siwashes are fine if touched up a bit. A sharp VMC or Mustad siwash is all you need - Owners and Gami's are nice, but unnecessary.

Silver Hilton 07-06-2006 08:02 PM

Re: Alvins: Siwash or Treble?
 
Quote:

Jimbouy, what is the 'proper action", I've always ued spinners and am new to wobblers.

You want a nice, rythmic, side to side wobble. The lure should come up to vertical on one side, then flop over to the other side, and back, fairly rapidly, maybe two beats a second. If it's spinning, you're in bad shape.

ISeeFish 07-06-2006 08:05 PM

Re: Alvins: Siwash or Treble?
 
I don't loose many fish with either siwash or trebles. I believe this is because I keep a loose drag allowing the fish to grab the lure and turn with little resistance. I "think" (a very dangerous thing for fishermen) I get a better hook-set if they are turned and running, instead of head-on fighting to get off the lure.

I've probably lost the most fish when a treble has straightened out. I like trebles on spinners for better balance and use the stock siwash on wobblers for strength, unless I need to slow them down as mentioned above.

steelfreak 07-07-2006 05:43 AM

Re: Alvins: Siwash or Treble?
 
Both style hooks gave their uses, depends on the water speed. I wouldn't recommend cutting point though. Have you ever tried sharpening one? Super needle point all the way. :smash:

ToolBoy 07-07-2006 04:58 PM

Re: Alvins: Siwash or Treble?
 
No disrepect intended to anyone. Searched back on 5 cents :clap: posts and see many times he reported lot's more "pounddowns" than hook ups. However it works for you is good. :cheers:

mryumyum 07-09-2006 01:03 PM

Re: Alvins: Siwash or Treble?
 
siwash all the way, I use 5/0 or 6/0 black owners they seem to do the trick. I get way more fish hanging then the treble. If you do use trebles go to the black owner treble they are pretty light if you get the needle points. I tend to land fish at a way better rate with siwash then trebles.

fergy61 07-09-2006 03:03 PM

Re: Alvins: Siwash or Treble?
 
For some reason I seldom lose an URB on wobblers. I use owners 2/0 trebles &amp; braid line. I learned the hard way several years ago to not set the hook with braid. They set it themselves just fine.I tore out hook after hook. I quit setting the hook &amp; have landed almost every fish since.

I think this question is like asking which is best, ford or chevy. You could have an endless debate. Try some of these suggestions out &amp; see what application works best for you.

eyeFISH 07-09-2006 09:01 PM

Re: Alvins: Siwash or Treble?
 
Hundred ways to skin the same cat? I'll add just one more twist:

Siwash hook, braided line, soft rod that bottoms out into a HEAVY butt, fairly tight drag... well, tight enough to FULLY load the rod before line strips out.

The fish can move that rod tip nearly 7 ft (plenty of time to let it turn downriver on the lure) before it encounters any real resistance. Rod bottoms out, tight drag sets the hook, and the fish rips out line on his first downriver run against a fully-loaded rod... YEE HAW! Fish on!

abrown 07-09-2006 09:39 PM

Re: Alvins: Siwash or Treble?
 
Siwash always :smash: :smash: :smash: :smash:

HntnFsh 07-09-2006 11:16 PM

Re: Alvins: Siwash or Treble?
 
O.K. 1 more twist.On your siwash bend the hook so the point is offset from the shank a bit.

RiverMan 07-10-2006 06:56 AM

Re: Alvins: Siwash or Treble?
 
Siwash hooks are the "meanest" hooks ever invented, bar none! Last fall we lost one fish on a siwash that I can remember....stick with the siwash, they can't be beat.

RM

Lured In 07-10-2006 12:59 PM

Re: Alvins: Siwash or Treble?
 
Quote:

Hundred ways to skin the same cat? I'll add just one more twist:

Siwash hook, braided line, soft rod that bottoms out into a HEAVY butt, fairly tight drag... well, tight enough to FULLY load the rod before line strips out.

The fish can move that rod tip nearly 7 ft (plenty of time to let it turn downriver on the lure) before it encounters any real resistance. Rod bottoms out, tight drag sets the hook, and the fish rips out line on his first downriver run against a fully-loaded rod... YEE HAW! Fish on!

Ahhh...the voice of reason! :cheers:

Debating about drag and hooks without considering the rest of the formula is like saying you need a K&amp;N Air Filter and Cat-back exhaust on your lawnmower.

Rod, reel, drag, line, leader, lure and hook are all part of the system.

As far as the original question, I say both. Some days the fish just hammer the wobbler and siwash's will give you a better landing ratio. Other days, the trebles seem to do a better job of getting the fish on hook. :wink:

Sturgeon 42 07-10-2006 01:18 PM

Re: Alvins: Siwash or Treble?
 
I use cutting edge Owners and have not missed a fish on the take down with tight drag,not super tight but enough to get hook into them, and I always bend my Alvins so they rotate. It also works for Summer Chinook at Frenchmans as it did Sat with a 22lber If you want side to side action use a Simon and they come with Owner trebles.......

Extreme 07-10-2006 03:12 PM

Re: Alvins: Siwash or Treble?
 
ST-#31 Owner Cutting Point Trebles or Owners "Trailer" Cutting point Siwash hook depending on lure &amp; current. Nastiest, wound inflicting, sticky, grab &amp; hold hooks ever made.
x

HntnFsh 07-10-2006 03:47 PM

Re: Alvins: Siwash or Treble?
 
What do you mean by rotate. Making a complete circle.Ive heard this works and hope to try it sometime.

ToolBoy 07-10-2006 04:13 PM

Re: Alvins: Siwash or Treble?
 
Quote:

have not missed a fish on the take down with tight drag, not super tight but enough to get hook into them

:yeahthat:


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