How do you know?

[FastActionRodTip]

How do you get perfect faith? I am struggling with this. I have put in alot of effort trying to get right with God. I have read the Bible cover to cover, been attending church, listen to radio programs and watch TV evangelists, and above all else, have prayed my heart out. I honestly expected to have a greater degree of assurance than I currently feel. I'm not looking for a magical answer here, just some inspiration to help me through my doubting Thomas phase. Sometimes I think the biblical stories are so sensational that not even Steven Spielberg or Stephen King could have thought them up. Is it blind faith we must have? Thanks

[rimrock]

Welcome!!! :cheers:

I believe a good starting point would be a question: What is faith to you? Not necessarily perfect faith, but just what does it mean to have faith as you understand it?

There is no right or wrong answer, so don't be concerned about that, just what does it mean to have faith? :smile:

[DAB]

BLIND FAITH ---- No way do we need blind faith because when the blind lead the blind sooner or later they will fall in the ditch. Faith will not save you, but WHO you have faith in can save you and that person would be "Jesus, The Christ"
WE must put our faith in Him and Him aloan for He has the power to save us from our sin's.
This is in reply to the ??? is it blind faith we must have.
DAB
More Later

[Dullhook]

Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ after absorbing our sins, died on the cross because of His tremendous love for us.

Our purpose in this life is to accept His gracious love, take His hand and let Him lead us.

This is not blind faith, but the path to the second kingdom.

[happybrew]

First, I'd like to make an observation, then I will address that observation and your other concerns.

My observation is that you seem to have been infected with the extremely common and understandable idea that everything must be scientifically verified and subject to the laws of physics and other hard sciences. This is a very typical, and normally harmless idea, but when we try to apply it outside the realm of science it falls very short. You cannot scientifically verify your faith any more than you can scientifically verify your love for your wife. That's not to say that faith is irrational, because it's not, however our society creates a dichotomy between faith and reason, when in fact the two are very much intertwined.

Faith is a gift from God. That fact that we even have a deficient faith is a gift from God, and everyone's faith is in some way deficient because we are all sinners. One way to increase one's faith is to pray for it. Ask God to give you more. Be persistent in your prayer.

Many times it can be hard to believe. We must reconcile what the world tells us with what God tells us through Sacred Scripture and throught the Church. We always have the tendency to weigh one against the other, and the two are often in opposition. I think that faith and reason complement each other, rather than conflict. What gets in our way is not reason, but an implicit, unstated way of thinking opposed to God. It implies faith in ideas that are often not recognized for what they are, and those particular ideas are themselves opposed to reason.

As an example of an idea that seems very common sense, but actually defies reason, is the idea that truth must be scientifically verified. On the face of it, it seems like it works. If you want to know the composition of a piece of rock, you run tests on it, and scientific methods can give you an answer. If you want to know whether a drug is effective against a particular disease, you run tests and find out. The body of scientific knowledge that humanity has is quite extensive, and explains a lot about our physical world, and we have been able to deduce a number of scientific laws. Science is a good and useful thing, and in its proper context reveals the truth and beauty of God's Universe.

But can we prove scientifically that every truth can be proven using the scientific method? Not really, because that is the sort of proposition that is not amenable to the scientific method. If one is to believe that everything can be proven scientifically, then one must believe that the idea that "everything can be proven scientifically" can itself be proven scientifically. But the scientific method entails using samples and statistical analysis. Can we prove that certain shades of green are attractive colors? We can certainly prove using the scientific method that a certain percentage of the population will find certain shades of green to be attractive, but that is not the same as proving that certain shades of green actually are attractive. We can prove using the scientific method that a certain percentage of the husbands love their wives, but we cannot prove that any particular husband loves his wife using the scientific method. Not all propositions are amenable to the scientific method. This does not make them nonsensical propositions, as some philosophers of science would have us believe. Nor does it mean that a consensus of opinion establishes truth. We could give up on all heroin users if we look at the scientific data on effectiveness of rehab, but for those who kick the habit, those numbers mean nothing.

Now how does this fit into faith? Would it be possible for their to be a miracle if there were no laws of physic? The fact that God structured the universe such that there are seemingly immutable laws of physics makes it exceptional proof of His existence that He is able to abrogate them to show His love for us. These miracles are well documented. Four authors recorded them, independently of each other, and they are in agreement with each other. In a court of law, that would prove the case. There are also others contemporaneous to the writers of the Gospels who are able to confirm many of the details of the Christian faith, such as Polycarp of Smyrna, Ignatious of Antioch, and others in the second generation of Christians. People don't die for a myth. They will die for the truth. Polycarp and Ignatious, made bishops by St.Paul, were martyred by the Romans. Like Paul they wrote letters in their captivity, which confirm the Gospels and provide a look at early Christian life. All of the apostles were martyred except St. John. We have better historical documentation for Jesus and the Apostles, and the next generation of Christians than we do for the deeds of Julius Caesar, but we don't doubt what Julius Caesar did. Why then do we doubt what Jesus did?

So don't let doubt overtake you. A thousand difficulties don't add up to a doubt. Difficulties can be resolved. Would you believe a world view that says there is no way to scientifically verify whether you love your wife, or would you believe a world view that puts such questions in their proper perspective? Can God override the laws of physics? Well, yeah, he can. He put the laws of physics there so we would know a miracle when we saw it, not so miracles would be impossible. So take heart and don't be discouraged.

happybrew

[FastActionRodTip]

Wow, heck of a reply! I'm going to print that off and read it a few times. I do believe in creation and intelligent design. To the evolutionists I say...If man evolved from monkeys and apes, why are there still monkeys and apes! It's just confusing to hear that dinosaurs were here a hundred million years ago yet the Bible refers to earth being thousands of years old rather than millions. Also, there are hundreds of millions of Christian, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, etc. who all have the same convictions that they are right. There are hundreds of millions who are going to be wrong. I guess since I favor creation then why not hang my hat on the Bible and the truth of Jesus Christ. Thanks

[DAB]

Well Put Happy Brew
DAB

[fishnwHim]

Amen :angel: :angel: :angel:

[ampersat]

How do you get perfect faith?
By perfectly believing in what you know is true.

When you truly believe in God and the word of God, all of the other "facts" in the world will fall away, no matter how much substance they appear to have behind them. When the word of God becomes fact for you, all the other "facts" in the world become opinions or justifications for some other viewpoint.

[FastActionRodTip]

of course if you and I each catch a 50lb URB on Monday that will go a long ways

[AnglersRental]

I see faith as action based. When tempted, are you willing to trust the Lord and make your actions consistant with what scripture teaches us and the example set by Christ for us to follow? In my expierence all that I needed was the willingness, once I became willing - God did the rest.

Who has greater faith, the man who has placed his trust in the Lord despite his having doubts and questions, or the man who never had any doubts or questions to begin with?

I would submit that it is a greater ACT of faith to trust the Lord when faith is hard than when times are good and faith is easy. :flowered:


Brad

[FastActionRodTip]

good words of wit...Faith is only faith when it's all you have left. I hear that God would rather us be cold or hot, that if we're lukewarm he will spit us out. I'm trying to be hot but just don't feel right about going around acting like I'm a great christian. I have sin in my life and am sure that it is keeping me distant from Him. I am working to overcome the things in my life that seperate me from Him, and I hate it when I feel doubt creeping in. Thanks all for your help. I sure don't want to go to hell. We really have nothing to lose by living a christian life because all it does is to teach us to love our neighbor. Of course none of that will get us to Heaven if we don't earnestly believe in Jesus Christ and accept him as our Saviour.

[in 'em]

Well said all of you! I just wanted to touch on doubt from perhaps a slightly different view. Every Christian has asked questions and dealt with issues of doubt. Doubt is natural when something is not proven 100% true. This is human nature to want proof. On the other hand, God did not prove everything true at this time because he desires love. This is why he gives us free will. Without free will and with proof, we'd simply be puppets on a string under God's control and unable to show God true love. God created us in His image and wanted no more than for us to love and obey him. We have free will and the ability to choose right from wrong, this is how we are able to show God true love. Faith is not always easy, but here are some thoughts. Don't get discouraged when sin is present in your life...we often, as Christians, forget how real Satan is in this world. All have sinned, but we don't have to be guilty of our sin if we believe in Jesus and what he's done for us. I could talk forever, but here is one last thought that has helped me in my times of doubt. There are over 1000 prophecies in the Bible, over 600 have been proven true with NONE ever proven false! The remaining deal with the end times and what is yet to come. So much of the Bible is proven true and nothing has ever been proven false and it shows us what will take place in the future...I think I'll believe! A good book for any Christian, or non-believer, is "Is the Bible Really a Message from God?" by Ralph O. Muncaster. It is a short and sweet book about proof and Christianity. Well, i'm new to the forum , but look forward to hearing everyone's thoughts. Hopefully we all gain from eachother. Hope this helped someone!

[FastActionRodTip]

Thanks...a friend just lent me When God Doesn't Make Sense by James Dobson so I'll read that first...I guess Faith will come the more I immerse myself in the teachings...I never expected it to come overnight...like I said on the onset, just expected more by now...just goes to show, don't know His plans and He's not on my schedule

[in 'em]

You know, it's odd how everyone who spends time in the Word, Prayer, Fellowship, etc. feels better...feels good...excited...passionate...etc., yet it is so hard often times to set aside the time to do those things. I know that when I spend time in prayer and in the Bible, I feel so good and life seems so easy. Why can't I continue to do those things??? We all have enough time if we want to. I'm as guilty as anyone, but it's just kind of wierd. The fact that time spent with God and his Word makes life great is, in itself, a testimony to the fact that we have a great God and an eternal life to look forward to.

[rimrock]

The most important matter regarding faith in God is NOT to make it an act of obedience. In other words sometimes you try to do. One of happybrew’s most important points was, “Faith is a gift from God.” We are not capable of mustering up more faith within ourselves.

“Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith…” (Heb 12:2a). It’s so important to realize faith doesn’t come from us by our choosing. Jesus as the author is the SOLE one who begins faith, and as the perfector is the SOLE one who strengths faith in God. When we feel a lacking in our faith it’s because we are not looking in the right direction. The first part of the verse tells where we are to look. We are to fix our eyes on Jesus, it’s a matter of whom/what has your focus. In other words, what has your greatest attention each and everyday? Self, material means, money, hobbies…

Jesus is most concerned about the process of growing your faith. Why doesn’t He give us complete perfect faith at the moment of conversion? What would be the problem? We wouldn’t need Him anymore if we had perfect faith in God. There would be no need for trust, no dependency upon the Lord. There certainly is one theme that keeps rising in scripture – that being our daily dependency on God. He is all about ensuring we are dependant upon Him. And isn’t that better for us, because then it doesn’t depends on us. But on the One who “is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine, according to his power that is at work within us… (Eph 2:20) God will do for us more than we can even image! I like that.

When our faith in God is struggling, the first place to look is to see where we are looking, what you are most paying the most attention to each day. Fix your eyes on Jesus for only He can perfect your faith in God; your own efforts no matter how sincere will not increase your faith. There is nothing in our own nature that will choose God. Rather it’s His promise for “he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.” (Phil 1:6). He’ll do it; just begin to fix your eyes on Him daily.

[Jon55]

Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
- Romans 10:17

Continue reading God's word. Not just cover to cover once. The more you read, the more you see God's love, faithfulness, etc. For every time you read the Old Testament, read the New Testament several times. I read the NT once a month and the OT once a year. I am always seeing new things, always being challenged and encouraged.

As you read God's word, allow God to change you little by little into his image. He will give you the faith to face anything just when you need it.

Having doubts from time to time is normal. When you doubt, remind yourself of God's faithfulness and of his promises. You can choose to trust in Him, no matter what the circumstance.

[Musicman]

Rimrock and HB, both very well said....thanks for the reminder!

[Jennie@ifish]

I find that the best way for me to get close to God is to talk to him as if he were my best friend. (He is, you know!)

Talk to him about EVERYTHING!!! "I'm hungry, God..." "I'm mad right now, God." I mean, every thought! He wants to be first in your life. He created you to love Him and wants your undivided attention.

After a while of this, you won't be able to live without Him close to you! It gets to be habit.

Instead of talking or thinking to yourself, direct it to Him. He is there... It's a lot more rewarding than being alone all the time. :smile:

Jen

[FastActionRodTip]

I am going through the process for sure...I go all out, 10,000 rpm's and then don't so things improve and burn out...I'm learning to pace myself, be consistent and patient..no one ever said it would be easy