Weird fish caught in McKenzie - any ideas?

[EugeneFisher]

To start off, I didn't snap a picture of the fish because I didn't have a camera on me... but I want to see if anyone knows what kind of fish this was.

Yesterday, I was fishing the McKenzie on one of the many shallow flats. Most of the fish I was catching were rainbows, but then one very odd fish ended up on my hook. The fish took an egg pattern, McRoe color. The body of the fish was identical to a whitefish - goldish bronze back fading to a silver/white underbody and sides and a long, narrow body (12" or so long). The scales were also very large, typical of a whitefish. Same fin arrangement as a whitefish. But what set this fish apart was it's mouth. Instead of having a sucker style mouth, this fish had a very large, aggressive looking mouth, almost like a Northern Pike. The nose wasn't as pointy as a Northern Pike, but the mouth just shouted "Pike!" when I saw it.

So, has anyone encountered one of these, or have any idea what it might be?

[Chromaflage]

I'd say carp. :shrug:

[EugeneFisher]

Chromaflage - Thanks for the input. It definately could have had some carp in it, but the mouth was nothing like a carp, or any other bottom feeder. I'm guessing a carp/trout hybrid. :smile:

[Grantspastor]

Sounds like a Northern Pikeminnow. If so then it's unfortunate, because they are very hard on other species.

[Riverkeeper]

Northern Pikeminnow



Yup. A.K.A *********. Ask Tillamook Chinook how we revive and release those on my boat.

[Blue Tip Spinner]

Northern Pikeminnow



Yup. A.K.A *********. Ask Tillamook Chinook how we revive and release those on my boat.



FIELDGOAL!!!!!!!!!!!

[Riverkeeper]

http://bt017.k12.sd.us/referee.gif

:smirk:

[nookslayer]

hopefully you killed that fish.... I would hate to see the NPM hit the McKinzie hard and ruin it. That's why they have a bounty on them.

[mandinga]

hopefully you killed that fish.... I would hate to see the NPM hit the McKinzie hard and ruin it. That's why they have a bounty on them.



ditto...

[Slow and Low]

I've caught lots of them in all our favorite rivers. Yep, kill them. They take all the same flies as trout.

[bobberdown9321]

i think its a northern pike minnow fierce things theyll eat about anything didnt know they had them in there tho :hoboy: :shrug:

[Mark Vickers]

hopefully you killed that fish.... I would hate to see the NPM hit the McKinzie hard and ruin it. That's why they have a bounty on them.


Boy, aren't we quick to kill a native species? The marketing efforts of the Bonneville Power Administration are paying off well.

The reason there is a bounty on them on the Columbia River is because the dams have created an unnatural situation where the pikeminnows thrive. While I too take pikeminnows out of the Columbia when I catch them, I'm not sold they they aren't just a convenient scapegoat.

How about we put bounties on smallmouth bass and walleye? Both of which are non-native species that I've caught over the last several days that have had been gorging on smolts.

[GUPPYSLAYER]

I've been fishing the Mckenzie for around 20 years and have yet to catch a ********* there. There are a few in there as I've asked various guides who have fished there for decades. Apparently, the river is too cold to produce many. I once caught a large whitefish on a nymph. What a treat...

[Riverkeeper]

How about we put bounties on smallmouth bass and walleye?



4th and 25, here's the snap...

Actually, I can't remember ever catching a pikeminnow in a trout stream, only in the willamette and columbia, where they get the "boot". For reasons mentioned above, I doubt they would be much of a problem and I don't know that I would dispatch them in a small fast river. Bass in a troutstream would definately taste leather.

I remember years ago watching a guy on the Deschutes catch one whitefish after another and throw them on the bank. I asked why and he said "cause they eat trout eggs!" :hoboy: Luckily, most of us on this board understand that whitefish are an integral part of most of our local streams, and on the Deschutes, the trout spend a good portion of the winter living on whitefish eggs...

[SilverFly]

The Sandy doesn't really count as a "trout" stream but I've caught a few large NPM above Dodge. An interesting, yet useless, bit of NPM trivia is they historically acheived weights in excess of 50 lbs!

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[wade]

where they get the "boot".



I hope you at least bonk'em good before showing the disrespect.

There are plenty of sqauwfish in the lower McKenzie, primarily in the backwaters.

I'm with Mark Vickers, its a native species and therefore part of the ecology unless Man has messed it up. Turning the Columbia River into a lake would qualify as messing it up.

Kevin

[Siwash]

I'm with Mark, its a native species and therefore part of the ecology unless Man has messed it up. Turning the Columbia River into a lake would qualify as messing it up.



Nicely understated. :applause:

[Riverkeeper]

Ok guys, you are making me feel guilty and perhaps I should show more respect.

To be totally clear about this, I have never gone out of my way to kill any fish while flyfishing (that I didn't intend to eat), although I probably would if I caught a bass while fly fishing.

I have, however, purposely dispatched 3-5 lb pikeminnows caught in the "heavily manipulated" willamette, as mentioned above. These were fish that were fat with smolts and had eaten my plug cut herring. Perhaps this isn't the best forum to discuss this, but at the risk of getting moderated; was I wrong to look ill towards a fish that has an unfair anthropogenic advantage over our downstream-bound salmon, steelhead, and SRC smolts? I would value any advice.

[mandinga]

[
Boy, aren't we quick to kill a native species? The marketing efforts of the Bonneville Power Administration are paying off well.
\



Is this a similar situation?
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/1997/10/15/MN11763.DTL

They have poisoned this beautiful rainbow trout lake 3 or 4 times now...killing thousand of trout and still failing to eradicate the threat the pike has on the Sacramento river system...are pikeminnows the same as northern pike?

[lilnorthfork]

To be totally clear about this, I have never gone out of my way to kill any fish while flyfishing (that I didn't intend to eat), although I probably would if I caught a bass while fly fishing.



Guess you won't be getting any invites to fish the John Day any time soon. :laugh:

[wade]

I would value any advice.



I figure once you kill it humanely you can do with it what you please.

Kevin

[Mark Vickers]

are pikeminnows the same as northern pike?


Nope, totally different species.

[Tanner]

I just returned from a week at Wallowa Lake. While I was there I fished the Wallowa and the Imnaha rivers. I caught lots of nice trout but I also caught some ********* out of both rivers. Guess where everyone of those ended up,,,,,,,,,Racoon food.

[mandinga]

Nope, totally different species.



I thought they were the same...man, I should never assume things.

So, why do they encourage the killing of "pikeminnows"

And, if Pikeminnows aren't pike, then what the heck are they?

[Siwash]

So, why do they encourage the killing of "pikeminnows"

And, if Pikeminnows aren't pike, then what the heck are they?



They're a native critter formerly known as *********, before the recent trend to purge "squaw" from the official naming conventions. I personally think "pikeminnow" was a lousy choice because it just invites more confusion such as we have here. The reason for killing them is that they feed on juvenile salmonids. However, they co-evolved naturally with salmonids, so it's not a major problem where the rivers are still in a more or less natural state, since the pikeminnow tend to prefer the lower/slower reaches compared to the salmonids. As Wade points out, the problem is in places like the Columbia where the dams have created so much slacker/warmer water where the pikeminnow thrive, upsetting the balance. Thus, BPA has their bounty program to try and mitigate pikeminnow predation on outmigrating smolts.

[Chrome Bumper]

Pike minnow are large minnow, not to bew confused with the endangered squaw fish of the southwest. Was it a grass carp web page (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://floridafisheries.com/images/fish-pic/cte-ide.jpg&imgrefurl=http://floridafisheries.com/Fishes/sci-name.html&h=167&w=300&sz=12&tbnid=mYc1Zvkl_X0J:&tb nh=61&tbnw=111&hl=en&start=1&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dgrass%2Bcarp%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%2 6lr%3D%26safe%3Dactive)

[BroCam]

I thought Squaw fish had a sucker mouth. What he explained did not.

[Siwash]

Here is some more info from the BPA's bounty program website:

pikeminnow.org (http://www.pikeminnow.org/info.html)

Enjoy...

[SilverFly]

Pike minnow are large minnow, not to bew confused with the endangered squaw fish of the southwest.



True, NPM (Ptychocheilus oregonensis) are a large minnow, but they are very closely related to the endangered Colorado ********* (now also called pikeminnow). In fact, the Colorado Pikeminnow (Ptychocheilus lucius) is the largest minnow in North America. Historically they attained lengths of 5-6' and 60-80#'s!!!

Sorry for the useless trivia. It's a slow night at work and I have internet access :rolleyes:.

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[Snakebite]

Pike minnow are large minnow, not to bew confused with the endangered squaw fish of the southwest.



True, NPM (Ptychocheilus oregonensis) are a large minnow, but they are very closely related to the endangered Colorado ********* (now also called pikeminnow). In fact, the Colorado Pikeminnow (Ptychocheilus lucius) is the largest minnow in North America. Historically they attained lengths of 5-6' and 60-80#'s!!!

Sorry for the useless trivia. It's a slow night at work and I have internet access :rolleyes:.

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Hmm, I thought the Sacramento ********* was the largest. I believe the Genus species name is: Ptychochielus gigantea But I could be wrong, it's only been twenty years since I studied that stuff. 21 years since I've seen one. They're huge! They look like a barracuda on steroids with no teeth. HEY Maybe they should change their name to "Bubbafish" That'll allieviate the confusion! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: