Bass Tourny Rant ( from the main board )

[pearl]

Whats the point of posting this if you dont post it in the Bass Forum?

Not constructive, thats for sure.



Guys,

Thought you may find this of interest. Not a bass vs salmon thing but that of safety.

Interested to hear your point of view :shrug:

Bass Tourny Rant Click Here (http://www.ifish.net/forum/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=814043&page=0&view=collap sed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1)

[nitrobass]

I probably shouldnt have even posted on that thread because I dont see the point in furthering it. Its all opinion, and those are hard to change on a discussion board.

There's very few fisheries where you dont have to deal with other boats. I know plenty of people that dont exactly enjoy navigating through the waves of hoglines, or having someone boondog through their hole, anchor upstream from their sturgeon spot, 200 boat lines at the ramp,etc. In the end we're all on the same side and a little patience goes a long way.

[trollin4trout]

Sounded like facts offered to me- people driving their boats extremely fast in close congested quarters without consideration of the danger to all in doing so. Your examples:
"navigating through the waves of hoglines, or having someone boondog through their hole, anchor upstream from their sturgeon spot, 200 boat lines at the ramp,etc" are normal irritations of urban fishing- they are NOT hazardous
boat handling practices.

[Luke the Drifter]

The guys on the main fishing forum are getting a little out of hand with their bashing of bass fishermen. I mean what makes them so much more important than anyone else?

[Tanner]

There's very few fisheries where you dont have to deal with other boats. I know plenty of people that dont exactly enjoy navigating through the waves of hoglines, or having someone boondog through their hole, anchor upstream from their sturgeon spot, 200 boat lines at the ramp,etc. In the end we're all on the same side and a little patience goes a long way.




My son and I were fishing the channel on Saturday when this tournament was going on. We were right by the boat ramp on Sauvies just down from the bridge. There was an older gentleman and his grandson in a small alumaweld no more than 50'- 75' away from us. Some complete idiot in a bass boat decides he needs to travel at 70+ mph down the channel and right between my boat and the Alumaweld. He was going so fast I could not even get the numbers off of his boat. As far as I am concerned he put me and MY SON's life in danger as well as the people fishing next to us.
You expect me to be patient with someone like this? The guy is real lucky I didn't see him on land later!

Usually, in my experience, guys in bass boats are the most courteous guys on the river. The majority of these guys on Saturday (especially down in the channel) had only one thing in mind. Getting to their fishing spots at all costs. I would like to find out who put on this tournament. Can anyone tell me?

By the way, I spend the majority of my summers Bass Fishing.

[Boatdog]

The guys on the main fishing forum are getting a little out of hand with their bashing of bass fishermen. I mean what makes them so much more important than anyone else?




As we have tried repeatedly to point out, it is NOT Bass Fishermen, it is the operation of a boat in an unsafe and illegal manner. It just happens that the observed offenders were in an EXTREME hurry to get somewhere really fast for some reason. :grin:

[SKP]

I got "buzzed" a few times in the Lower Willy, about 2 miles up from Kelly's Point on Saturday. They came in from the Columbia, then a few hours later, went back out to the Columbia.

These guys were travelling at a high rate of speed, and plainly "buzzed" us way too close. There were at least 30 or 40 throughout the day. Some were fine, staying a safe distance from us. Others were flat out dangerously close. We were sturgeon fishing, so we were on the east side of the lower Willy. Salmon fishermen were trolling the west side of the Willy. The bass buzzers had more than plenty of room to go high speed 1000 feet away, yet some chose to get within 50 or so feet. :eek: :noway:

SKP :mad:

[pearl]

The guys on the main fishing forum are getting a little out of hand with their bashing of bass fishermen. I mean what makes them so much more important than anyone else?



Luke,

It's not a personal attack.

The fact is that a group of "fisherman" were operating boats on the Willamette River Saturday morning that put myself and my passengers into a higher percentage of an accident because of their decision to run their boats in what I feel was a wreckless and illegal manner.

Stop with the "woe is me" attitude and help find a solution and address problems in the future and avoid what will someday be a horrific accident.

I asked on the other board why some guys wear full face crash helmets and the response was " have you ever been hit in the face with a bug while doing 70mph. Stand up and admit that the reason a crash helmet is worn is because there is a higher then normal chance of a water mishap happening while running at high speed with an above normal amount of boats and debris on the water. A face mask would stop the bugs.

I have to believe your attitude about this subject and some of your responses are embarrasing quite a few of your fellow members on the Bass board. Quite frankly the e-mails and personal responses that I have received in the last 24 hours have been solid solutions to the problem that benefit all sides of the equation. I appreciate that.

Luke, Join me salmon fishing on the shelf the morning of the next tournament blast off and see it from the receiving end instead of the giving end. A slow troll in front of a boat doing 70 MPH may adjust your attitude.

I got no issue with bass fisherman. In fact my new NorthRiver has a mount for a pedastal seat and I have a front mount trolling motor that goes on the bow. I found fishing up in the John Day and upper Columbia to be a lot of fun last summer and plan to do it with my family again this summer.

Go figure :idea: Pearl is a bass fisherman. I take that back. I'm a FISHERMAN just like everybody eles on both boards.

If nothing but awareness becomes of this its a win for all aspects of our sport :applause:

[Chromaflage]

You go, Pearl!!!! :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: It was made very clear when I started the thread that it was directed at those observed. And, as I stated on the general fishing thread, I think most have tried to contain comments to just that.

Luke, "me thinks thou dost protest too much."

CrF

[Dave Smith]

There are places in the country where Bass fishing is not just king, it is the only game in town. It would be an oddity to not be used to huge numbers of Bass boats traveling at super high speeds all day, every day. Then there are places where Bass are almost unheard of and anadromous fish are the only choice. What would you call a place that had good numbers of both?? I would call that place PARADISE. I have lived hear my whole life and I still think it is absolute paradise. I have caught a Steelhead on my fly rod, an 8-1 largemouth, and a 6-5 smallmouth....all within the last month. We could close down one or the other types of fishing, but then it would be just like everywhere else, OR we could SLOW DOWN just a little, be courteous, and enjoy PARADISE. More Bass tournaments are won by skill and knowledge than have ever been won by a few more minutes of fishing time.

[pearl]

Thanks Dave :bowdown:

You get it and I appreciate that!

[River Ranger]

Dave.Even though I agree with you about this being a fishing paradise I have to say that I wish the Bass were gone.They don't belong and are a plague to the rivers.They are just another example of man screwing up the natural chain.It's no different than adding a run of summer steelhead to a river that previously did not have a summer run.I don't blame the Bass fishermen for this just the people who thought it would be a good idea :hoboy:

It's never a good thing when man introduces a species to a habitat that was not built with that species in the equation.

As for the safety issues,I was fishing out of St Johns that Sat and we got buzzed within 100' as they passed between our boat and another :bigshock:The whole west side of the river was open but he wasn't worried about anyone but himself.

someone mentioned hoglines that blocked the passage of boats,never seen this happen.Why can't they just Idle past the lines :shrug:Sure it gets crowed up there but there is always room for boats to get by.On a side note the sherifs dept has been cracking down on the size of some of the lines the past few years.

RR.

[bobberdown9321]

there are just as many carless samlon fishers and its not like this just on the willamette its like that on nearly every river weither it has bass or not :smash:

[RocknReed]

Explain how the Bass are a plague to the river. I have a family member that is a fish biologist and just retired from the Oregon Department of Fish and Game. He has explained to me that the Bass aren’t an issue, it’s the Dams. I would think he knows what he’s talking about since he was the Top Dog. If you’re going to blame someone for the Bass, you’ll have to go back about a hundred years. That’s when they were introduced to the rivers.
I like fishing for Bass it’s an addiction that’s enjoyed by lot’s. If the Bass were gone All of us bass fishermen would have to fish for salmon, think of how many more people you would have to share your spot with.
On the subject that nothing should be here that didn’t originate from here, well I guess we all have to pack up and leave, unless you’re a native Indian.
The bottom line is we all have something in common, we love to Fish!

RR

[River Ranger]

Sure the Dams are the biggest problem but Bass are just another one,Thats all.Don't forget now there are warmwater species in many of Oregons lakes(no Dams) that have destroyed the native populations.

As far as your comment of of us not beloning to this land,people if they choose to could have Zero impact on the native fisheries.Where as a salmon smolt has no choice of being eaten by a bass.And the bass is not aware of what it's impact is on it's prey.

Your friend is wrong about bass not being an issue plain and simple.There is no doubt that their impact is smaller than what the Dams have done but they are still a problem.And as I stated in my post I don't blame Bass fishermen I just Blame the people who thought it would be a good Idea.Kinda like when fisheries managers thought it would be a good idea to clear fallen trees and debries from small creeks and streams to allow for better flow and fish navigation.What,like trees never fell in to streams naturally.Human arrogance to think we know better than mother nature.

RR.

[RocknReed]

Maybe I should have worded it differently. He didn’t say their not an impact, he said their not the problem. The sea loins are an impact as are salmon fishermen using nets, but I’m sure they release the natives.
The Trout populations in lakes that are shared with Bass are just a little smaller, but now there’s a choice of what to fish for little Trout or big Bass.

[River Ranger]

The issue is not little trout or big bass,the bass don't belong.And trust me it only takes time for the warmwater species to do away with the native populations.

Tenmile lakes for example use to have a great trout fishery,at least up until the last few years.The past two years we have only scratched out pour numbers of trout due to the Prech explosion.The perch will continue to compete with the trout for food and will win.Not only does the trout have less food,when they do reproduce they have to deal with predation from Bass.

RR.

[rob allen]

"I wish the Bass were gone.They don't belong and are a plague to the rivers."

i am sure no study has been done but i'd be willing to bet all the wages for the rest of my life that hatchery salmon and steelhead do far far far more damage than bass ever thought of doing.. If anything doesn't belong it's hatchery salmon and steelhead.

[River Ranger]

Now thats a stretch. :hoboy:
RR.

[team simper]

Well, why don't you ask the stores at Ten Mile if they want to get rid of the bass. This fishery puts a lot of money into their community, and also puts a lot of joy into the anglers that fish there. It took over 20 lbs. to win a state tournament there recently. Yah, lets get rid of bass, :smash: NOT!!!! :whazzup: :shrug:

[rebell]

What the heck has this got to do with careless boating?

Give it a break RR! We all know that any non native species has an impact on all salmonoids. Man being one of them! Look around, there is a population explosion going on right in front of your eyes. I don't know if you were salmon fishing in this area or on the coast for the last 40 years (I have been), if you have, you would be able to recognize dozens of problems that have surfaced in that time.

Bass were introduced in to the Columbia system about 100 years ago. Sure, it was a mistake, Dams were a mistake, hell, there have been so many mistakes that it is amazing that there are any salmon or steelhead left at all in the Columbia system. It proves that salmonoids are a very resiliant fish. The best we can do is work with what we have.

So what are you asking of those of us who love to fish for WW fish? We all recognize that bass are a non native fish, but the fact is, we enjoy fishing for them. Sure you could demand that we kill all non native fish (bass or any other WW fish), but I can promise you that will not happen. You could start bass fishing and harvest all the one's you wan't. But to think that you could elimenate bass out of the N.W. is just nut's. There is now way that could even begin to happen with out impacting what few salmon and steelhead we have left. And even then, bass would still be here.

Fact is, you are going to have to live with them. Asking for there removal is asking for the impossible. So again, what are you trying to accomplish by debating with people who enjoy WW fishing?

And please, we all know about the elegal introductions that have happened around the N.W. None of us here had anything to do with that. So don't start! And do some research, you will find that 90% of the waters in the N.W. with WW fish in them were put there by either ODF&W or the feds (that would be the Columbia bass you are crying about).

[River Ranger]

Do you even read my posts Rebell? :hoboy: As I stated I never blamed Bass fishermen,Did you get that or are you skim reading.

The removal of nonnative species is farfetched but not impossible.They are doing it on the Clackamas right now with summer steelhead.and many rivers are trying to release in basin stocks in to rivers rather then taking lets say big creek steelies and releasing them in to a totally different basin.


I am aware of the many problems facing Salmonoids now just seems very very few people are willing to do a darn thing about it.

Hell I like catching Sailfish lets throw some of them in the Columbia as well.As I can see this is pointless dicussing this with warmwater fishermen I'll debate no more.

RR.

[Striper Club]

And so concludes Bass Debate 2005....so much like Bass Debate 2004, 2003, 2002 and even 2001. See yall next year! :dance: :yay: :dance:

[rebell]

Yes I read every word in your posts RR. And I did not mean to run you off.

But the fact is, this topic has been beat to death over the years. You may consider WW fish a plague, thats your opinion. But a lot of us hear in the N.W. consider them a blessing.

As a long time salmon and steelhead guide and WW fishermen, it bothers me deeply when someone tries to put the blunt of the blame for the demise of salmon on one paticular issue.

I am aware of what they are doing on the Clackamas to rid it of out of basin stocks. But that is comparing apples to oranges. How would you even begin to elimanate WW fish out of the Columbia, Tenmile or any other body of water? Bounty programs? Bonneville is paying for the pikeminnow program, I doubt they would be willing to put the money up for bass and walleye. And I feel it would be very unlikely that the state or the feds would be willing to put up the millions of dollars that would be required to even put a dent in the population.

[River Ranger]

I guess the first step would be to do away with limits on warm water species,Not that it would make much of a dent but it's something.
As for the Pikeminnow they are a native to the Columbia and are just a scapegoat for the BPA to take a little blame from them.The problem with the pikeminnow is that even thought they are native to the river they did not have much of an impact befor the dams since they river was free flowing and smolt outmigration was much much faster.Now that the river is damed up it's prime conditions for those that prey on smolts.Another reason no bounty or restrictions would be placed on Bass is because they generate revenue.

Don't get me wrong here I do like catching bass,I fish the Wilamette a bit this time of year after a day of springer fishing it's kindas fun to toss some grubs or something at those critters.And I spend a week and a half a Tenmile every summer Throwing Spinnerbaits in to the shore and watching those things jump all over it.

I just wonder why some dicisions are made with ODFW and the WDFW concerning the preservation of Salmon and Steelhead stocks and on the hand set limits and restrictions on a nonnative species that prey on the stocks they say they are trying to help.

I'm sorry if I raised hairs Rebell,It's just that I care deeply about Salmon and Steelhead and watching there demise is disturbing.

RR.

[rob allen]

I care deeply too that is why my main concern is hatcheries and their devastating and documented impacts.

some things about Bass

bass spawn during the highest levels of outmigrating smolts
when bass spawn they hold very close to their nests and do no feed while spawning. They do however attack and kill what they precieve to be a danger to their nests. Salmon and steelhead smolts spend very little if any time in the areas where bass spawn, they stick to the main river where they are flushed out to sea.
All this adds up to very little interaction between bass and juvenile salmon and steelhead, the potential exception being fall chinook which outmigrate in the heat of summer. However salmonids are very fast and very small and only draw the attention of small bass. This all being common sence was backed up by predation studies done on the Columbia and the Yakima.. If you want to talk about non-native predators you should be looking at catfish which according to the columbia studies had the highest level of predation on salmon smolts.

My only point here is that bass are not a limiting factor to salmon and steelhead populations. Hatcheries certainly are!!

[pearl]

Did anyone hear that some boats came speeping through a wad of other boats on the Willamette last weekend :whazzup:.

Guess this post took a left turn at response number 11.

Oh well. Back to your regularly scheduled program.

:lurk:

[shalom]

I for one am tried of reading how a few Bass boats mess up , and spoil it for the majority of Bass Fishermen . I wish that this thread would be put to rest and here i go and bring it up again to make it go the top again , sorry for that .
:angel: :jester: :yay: :dance: :dance: :angel1: