Response to FM2

[rimrock]

Hello Keith. I think we can both learn from each other.

I have no problem answering your inquiries. I’ve done this mostly in response to PMs from quite a few, but have no problem doing it in an open thread (thought it best to start a new thread – wanted to keep the other reserved for the great testimony that we are all reading from Brad “uglygreen”).

I find it difficult to thoroughly define my positions so I’ll just put some things out and please feel free to ask any specific questions. I attend Beautiful Savior Lutheran Church (Missouri Synod) located off I-205 where I serve as an Elder. It would be classified as a large congregation and a conservative one (no liturgy though). I did not grow up as a Christian and came to faith around 28. I’m very much an orthodox evangelical Christian (creedal) holding mostly to a historical prospective (not pre-millennialism, word of faith, new age…).

My approach in the ministry work I do – discipleship, Bible study, shepherding… All focus on trying to get people to engage their minds to question in order to really know the hope they have and not to merely repeat “my pastor said”. Bible illiteracy is a huge problem in the church today very few read or even pray to God daily, sad when you think of what a privilege we have as children of God. At times to get people to really think it takes encouragement, challenge, care and even rebuke. (2Tim3). Fundamental beliefs I share with Martin Luther that always shape my thinking “We are all but snow cover dung” – at our core is only selfishness and sin we are covered by a foreign righteousness and this not from ourselves. The closer I grow to God the more I understand what the Apostle Paul penned in Romans – I do not do what I want to do but I do the evil that I don’t want to do, that is what I keep doing. Who will save this wretched man? Praise be to Jesus Christ our Lord. The second idea from Luther, supposedly his final words as he died, “We are all but mere beggars” – what can I really take credit for or boast about in my life?

All too often Christians today approach their faith as a choice to do good, that only by obedience does God bless us, there is little grieving over daily sin and we go to church to be entertained comments like “I didn’t get anything out of service today.” We are still very self-focused; some posts I read reflex this self-spirituality (don’t need to go to church; I have a relationship with God on my own…).

I think you will find in my posts the approach to God of – God loves you because you are His child never by what you do, give, act, say... I know what can cripple believers and that is trying to reach God by obedience – give 10%, if I do this than God will do that, I’ll promise to do better then guess what failure follows. The Bible only speaks of transformation by God’s grace never in our efforts. I believe that God has ordained His means of grace through the Word and Sacrament (Bible, baptism and communion). If we are not in the Word or Sacrament then are lives will not be transformed.

At times, yes, I see it may be difficult to pin down a clear position with me because it can depend on the situation. If someone is already down I’m not going to hit on the Law (it’s already done its work) but only Gospel; likewise if someone is going the obedience or choosing approach I remind them of the Law to point to their utter helplessness and drive them back to their need for the Cross.

That’s long enough for now. As I said if you have any particular questions, please ask and go ahead and be direct that’s always fine with me. I look forward to getting to know you better and praying for any requests you may have. I can already tell you are a fine brother and committed to your walk with the Lord.

God’s Blessings to you,
Brad

[Salmon Stryker]

rimrock,

I've read your post several times now and I find myself agreeing with you on everything except I had a hard time swalowing the quote from Martin Luther, "We are nothing but snow covered dung" At first I was hung up on being snow covered poop. I have always held to the idea that were made in the glorious image of God...not poop, so I have been struggling a little bit thinking that you and I are in disagreement.

But maybe we are not. Can I interpret your quote to mean this; "Because of the fall of man and the entrance of sin we are so far from what God intended (Total Depravity) that we could never be like God or reach heaven on our own. Instead we are in need of a savior who paid the price for our sin (antoning sacrafice)."

If that is how you meant it then I can now see that we agree. Thank you for your post and for causing me to think/meditate on this today.

[rimrock]

SS,

It’s a metaphor that you have done a very good job discerning. I liked your interpretation of it.

Possibly the other wonderful images you may have been thinking about in the NT places where we are frequently called “the saints” and “you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood , a holy nation, a people belonging to God.” (1 Peter 2:9). But the point of the quote from Luther is by what means? Our own worthiness or that we are covered by a foreign righteousness – Jesus Christ.

This continues to remind, at least me, that the only thing that separates me from the lost is the fact that God doesn’t see my “poop” only the perfect snow of Jesus’ purity. I come to God only by being made white as snow by the blood of the Lamb as if I am clean, but this is not of me or by my acts of righteousness.

A terrible temptation for some Christians is righteous pride where we start thinking we are somehow better in ourselves than the lost. As in Luke 18:11-14:

The Pharisee stood up and prayed about himself: “God, I thank you that I am not like other men — robbers, evildoers, adulterers — or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.” But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, “God, have mercy on me, a sinner.” I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.

There is a great difference between being worthy and having worth. We are of great worth to God, this is what we see every Good Friday, but we are not worthy of it. So we are definitely not in disagreement. Thanks for asking that’s always a very important thing to do.

God's Blessings to you. :angel:

[FM2]

Hi Brad, thank you for your response and I apologize if I put you on the spot by bringing this in the open. I have read your post a few times to try and understand fully where you are at with your walk. Thank you again for being transparent.

Many of the issues you describe also weigh on my mind. The "spiritual" or "new age" attitude is disturbing and sometimes difficult to overcome. I have found personally when meeting people like this that I revert to Galatians and the fruits of the spirit. Patience and understanding seem to play out in a way that illustrates the love of Christ then the door is open to witness in the name of Jesus.

You mention others areas of concern for me too and I try to challenge others through classes I teach to look at their innerselves and realize Christ has taken residence in your heart and is there 24/7. This is important for everyone to know and put into practice. It's a tough challenge to explain what "total surrender" means but until I leave this earthly paradise my mission is clear. As you know, the harvest is plentiful but the workers are few so through several ministries I work with God's Kingdom will increase.

I hope there comes a time we can meet but until then may the Lord bless you abundantely!

In His service,
Keith

[rimrock]

Hi Keith,

Your concern is very kind but no apology is necessary I was happy to response to you in this tread. You are right it is important for Christians to be transparent, it makes us real.

It’s wonderful that you have a heart for God’s Kingdom; I pray that God will bring an abundant harvest through your endeavors. Looking forward to getting together with you when the time comes also, maybe that AC fishing retreat will come together someday so we can have a great time of fellowship with all the saints here.

God’s Blessings to you,
Brad