Deschutes Permit 2005

[Two Fister]

Well, here's the first salvo in the permit system on the Deschutes. I have to admit that I avoid weekend trips from Warm Springs to Trout Creek or Trout Creek to Maupin during the peak season, but it's certainly nice to be able to go when the mood stikes. At least it was nice... :hoboy:

BLM News Release
US Department of the Interior ▼ Bureau of Land Management ▼ Oregon State Office BUREAU OF LAND MANAGEMENT OR-05-02 Contact:
For release: December 14, 2004
Chris Strebig(503) 808-6003
Tom Mottl(541) 416-6859

BLM Announces Lower Deschutes River Limited Entry for the 2005 Boating
Season

PRINEVILLE ？Today, the Bureau of Land Management (BLM)
Prineville District Office, in cooperation with the Warm Springs Tribe and the State of Oregon Parks and Recreation Department, announced plans for the 2005 boating season on
the Lower Deschutes River in Central Oregon. Limited entry boater passes for the 2005 season (July 1 - September 4) will become necessary in January 2005.

Under this new requirement, the BLM will require limited entry boater passes for Segment 1 only of the Lower Deschutes River. Segment 1 represents the 42-mile segment of the Deschutes River which contains Segment 1A (Warm Springs to Trout Creek) and 1B (Trout Creek to Harpham Flat). The limited entry boater pass system is a component of the 1993 Lower Deschutes River Management Plan and its 1997 Supplement.

Boaters will need to plan ahead if they choose to visit Segment 1 at its peak use times from Friday-Sunday between July 1st and Labor Day. Boaters will be able to book their
trips up to 182 days in advance on a first-come, first-served basis. The total number of boaters allowed per day in Segment 1A is 200 and in Segment 1B is 500.

On January 4, fifty percent of the limited entry boater passes will be released to the general public on the www.boaterpass.com (http://www.boaterpass.com) website. Additional passes will
be released throughout the season; see the website for details.

Boaters who choose to use this popular segment of the river during non-peak times will not be required to obtain a limited entry boater pass, however, anybody who uses any
kind of watercraft or other floating device to go up or down the river must purchase and carry a boater pass. On Segment 1 the total number of boater passes will be limited. As river managers continue to monitor use of the river, boaters can expect additional changes in regulations to occur through 2008 and beyond.

The management partnership is described in the river management plan and supplement and in the 2002 Intergovernmental Agreement. The touchstone of this working
relationship is striving for consensus decision making to achieve successful implementation of the plan and commodate the public need for reasonable and fair recreational access to the Lower Deschutes River.

"We have worked closely with outfitter guides, local and state governments, cooperating federal agencies and the Confederated Tribes of Warm Springs to minimize the impacts
to the River and its users" said BLM State Director Elaine
Brong.

The BLM, an agency of the U.S. Department of the Interior, manages more than 61 million surface acres, more than any other Federal agency. Most of this public land is located
in 12 Western states, including Alaska. The Bureau, with a budget of about $1.8 billion, also administers 700 million acres of sub-surface mineral estate throughout the nation.

[Abalone]

All lot of you guys and gals are just going to have to quit fishing and find another hobby. Fishing is getting toooooo danged popular... :bigshock:

[Blue Tip Spinner]

Boaters who choose to use this popular segment of the river during non-peak times will not be required to obtain a limited entry boater pass, however, anybody who uses any
kind of watercraft or other floating device to go up or down the river must purchase and carry a boater pass.



are there 2 types of boater passes or are they just contradicting themselves?????? anybody else agree??? :shrug:

[Abalone]

There are two types of users. Peak and non peak times..

[BillK]

The way I understand it, there are actually three passes. The annual pass, the passes for non-prime days (Monday thru Thursday never the peak season) and the prime day passes. Also keep in mind the annual pass it NOT good for the prime days. This is why annual passes have fallen from 18% to only 3% of the permit sold. Permits for the first limited entry time period will go on sale January 4th. This is when 50% of permits will be available, so if you want to fish/raft on segment 1 it will take a little a planning.
BillK

[Riverkeeper]

At least the best fishing is before july 1st and after sept 4th.

[garyk]

If you think this is a hassle, check out my post on the main page about CORRs bill to implement fees on every major river.

[Abalone]

I think they should just put a box inside everybodies house. When you leave the house you have to put $20.00 in it for breathing the air..
Air Tax should cover everything.

It's a FEE country.......I wonder what the poor people are doing ? :noway:

[Slow and Low]

This is a pretty sad deal. What Riverkeeper said is true. Best rout fishing is before July and after September. The Steelhead are in the lower river until late September. This is a non issue for my wife and I who float every other weekeend staring July (Beavertail to the mouth).

The part that I don't like is that an annual permit is not a viable option for weekend warriors anymore.

[BillK]

That may change Slow and Low. BLM is well aware of how you and other feels concerning the annual permits. One problem they need to work out is software problem on how to intergate the annual permit with prime days permits on the web site. It can be done, but would it would make the process more confusioning than it already is. If enough people bug them hopefully they come up with an effective method to do this.
BillK

[Slow and Low]

How do we bug them? :smash:

[BillK]

Write to: BLM, Prineville District, 3050 NE 3rd St., Prineville, OR 97754. Attn. Robert B. Towne, Field Manager, Deschutes Resourse Area. One of the phone numbers there is: 541-416-6700. Sorry I do not have this person email address but my guess it is: robert_b_towne@or.blm.gov
BillK

[Whiskey Dick]

Slow and Low, your annual boaters pass will still work for you on the lower river on weekends. Limited access is only going in on section 1 which is Warm Springs boat ramp to Harpham Flat boat ramp on fridays, saturdays and sundays from July 1st through Labor day weekend. As for using your annual pass on limited access weekends on section 1 my thoughts on this is it will never happen as the web site gives them a very accurate count and control on how many people are on that section.
The good news is last year the number of people on the river droped again and if limited access was in last year on section 1 there were only 2 weekend days when it would have been closed off. Do i like it? NO!!!! but unless river use continues to drop we are stuck with it. tight lines,brian :shrug:

[nunyet]

Slow and low This may not effect your use of the river this year , but this plan will be for the entire river in a very short time. The lower river will see more use as the boaters unable to launch in section 1 move down below. As far as the fishing goes in July and Aug. For the past 25 plus years I have fished this section 6 days a week. If I am unable to fish up above I will move down below as I have fished there a lot also.
Some of the problems with the plan as I see it are.
1. Pay in full in advance , no refunds for any reason , any time.
2. Annual pass only good for Mon. thru. Thur.
3.The boating user pays for the whole pass program , and is effected by
limited entry system. Not effected are hike in , bike in ,drive in.
Private clubs that are located all through this section do not need a
permit to drive the road to race boaters to fishing spots on public
land.
4. The price of $8.00 per day has made this very expensive for the
average family.
5. Only one weekend at a time becomes available ,*the 4th of Jan . you
may only apply for the 1rst of July and must wait for 7 days to try for
the next week.
6. The cost to administer this plan will cost more than the income.

This entire plan is being forced into action because went over on one day during the regulated time between Memorial Day and labor Day, by something like 11 people, in 2003. I can't believe this is how my government protects our resource.

[BillK]

Nunyet, I understand the limited entry was bought about because 5 people were over on one day in 2003. One thing to keep in mind is that limited entry was forced on BLM from legal action from the Warm Spring Tribe as they wanted to "level the playing field". Please do not ask me to explain what that means. My guess is that limited entry will be scaring off people from floating Deschutes and any one who wants to float the river on Segment 1 will able to obtain a permit. If limit entry does expand, Segment 2 will be next, but there is no time table at this time. One reason for no refunds is to prevent people from booking days they may or maybe not use or "ghost writing". When people do obtain a permit it is best to select an alterative person just in case something happen to the primary permit holder. Also keep in mind that if you do obtain a permit during limited entry and do not use it and do not cancel it, you will not be able to obtain to get a permit for two years. I believe BLM will asking for your driver license number and you will need a photo ID to check in. As for the cost, the Sec. of the Interior has granted additional funds to help start the program as BLM wants a 100% boaters check in. They will people at Warm Springs and Trout Creek from dawn to dusk. If you leave before dawn there will be a self service check in station you must use. I am certainly with on the walk in, bikers, etc. as they use the resource as much if not more than the boater do.
BillK

[Whiskey Dick]

"One thing to keep in mind is that limited entry was forced on BLM from legal action from the Warm Spring Tribe as they wanted to "level the playing field".
BillK not quite right, Taken from the BLM Lower Deschutes River Recreation Page,


"Settlement Agreement Update
Agreement in Principle to Settle Lower Deschutes River Lawsuit

The parties to a lawsuit challenging the implementation of the 1993 lower Deschutes River Management Plan have reached an agreement in principle to settle the case. The lawsuit was brought by the Northwest Rafters Association, the National Organization for Rivers and the Confederated Tribes of the Warm Springs Reservation as intervenors against the Bureau of Land Management and Oregon Parks and Recreation Department.

The agreement stipulates that a limited entry boating system will be implemented in Segment 1 (the segment of the Deschutes River from Warm Springs to Harpham Flat) beginning in 2005. The segment boundary was adjusted as part of the agreement to more closely match how boaters actually use the river.

The agreement also calls for paper boater passes to be eliminated for Segment 1 of the Deschutes River as of 2004. As a result, all boater passes for this segment will be issued through the Deschutes River Boater Pass website, which is at www.boaterpass.com. (http://www.boaterpass.com.)

Boater passes will continue to be available for the other three segments of the Lower Deschutes River consistent with current practice. Based on boater use levels, however, the agreement provides for a limited entry system to be expanded, no earlier than 2007, to one or more of these other segments if boater use level targets are exceeded."

Lower Deschutes River Recreation Page
:whazzup:

[nunyet]

I have been told by the BLM that only name, address and age are needed to apply for the boater pass. If you write a pass for a ghost permit you will not be allowed to apply for a pass in that section for 2 years. You will still be able to go on another persons pass , so there is really no loss of access as long as you still have one friend left.

[Two Fister]

The lawsuit was brought by the Northwest Rafters Association, the National Organization for Rivers



Does anybody know who in the heck these people are? It's my understanding that the lawsuit was filed by a single attorney out of Salem who claimed to be representing river users as a whole. They don't speak for me, but since I didn't get heavily involved with the process, I guess I gave up my own say in the matter. :hoboy:

When you float you'll notice the brown fiberglass markers that designate official campsites. Those markers are all labled with a river mile designation. If anybody doesn't think that the river is headed towards a stricter permit system where you'll have to designate which campsite you are staying in when you get your permit, I suggest that you think again.

[nunyet]

Two Fister , it has been the Deschutes-Club that has been pushing this thing as much as the tribe. They are the ones that got power boats off in the winter , now they are the only ones that can access most of the river above the gate and below the reservation.

At the time they took the power off they
said we would have hiking access to the entire stretch , now they will not allow you to fish from the road between the caretakers house and the land just above the Smart Cabin and not let anyone walk past the gate at Dante. In return for the loss of this access and the trading of Doc Waters water and the land the Smart cabin was on, that included a good camp , the Blm got some land below the gate that is very unremarkable. .(Doc Waters water was about !/4 mile of river front just below Dixn.)

Another thing that has me worried is the fact that now that the BLM has made all commercial permits the same , it has eliminated the cap that had been imposed on all outfitters dealing with historic use. A large percentage of the permits had almost no historic use in section 1. By just picking up the phone a outfitter with no historic use can take the time that was used by private parties.

I hope that you are all right, that we will still be able to go when we like, as the limit was only reached on a couple of days , but this mess that the state and the BLM is in the process of making is not over yet.

Sorry if this is hard to read but I'am not to good at this

[Whiskey Dick]

"Another thing that has me worried is the fact that now that the BLM has made all commercial permits the same , it has eliminated the cap that had been imposed on all outfitters dealing with historic use. A large percentage of the permits had almost no historic use in section 1. By just picking up the phone a outfitter with no historic use can take the time that was used by private parties."

nunyet, you are right there where quite a few guides that did not have access or had limited access on weekends but that all changes now, Also the guides and outfitters for the past 8 years had agreed to reduce there buisness on the buisy weekends by 10% a year to keep from going to limited access, No More, now it will be first to buy the weekend boaters pass gets to float.
there is somthing else in the agreement that i have not seen any one talking about and that is the blm will now start to issue 5% new guide permits every year so there will be more guides on the river, Does this make sense to any one?, Lets limit the numbers of people that can float but lets have more guides!!!!!!!. :whazzup:
Two Fister, if you do a google shearch you will find the North West Rafters Association, they have been after a permit system for years and saw the Deschutes river as the one place where they could force it in. They feel this will benifit the "serious multi day rafters" as they tend to plan and will book a year in advance. They can then show how great it works and try to get it in on other rivers. I believe it has all ready been turned down in other states and on other rivers they want it on.
:rolleyes:

[Abalone]

I understand that part of the problem is there are too many agencies involved in the Regulations.
BLM, Indian, ODFW, User Groups.

Are we getting comprimized off the river ?

[Slow and Low]

This is nuts!

For the people buy the people. For special interest groups with lawyers!

You guys know a lot about all of this. Maybe you should look into throwing some weight into this. If what you have said is true these guys have an agenda. That agenda will impact businesses, and people financially. It doesn't seem to me that this is fair or legal.

Something to think about. I for one would be in.

[Whiskey Dick]

I understand that part of the problem is there are too many agencies involved in the Regulations.
BLM, Indian, ODFW, User Groups.

Are we getting comprimized off the river ?



Abalone, you missed one off your list, Oregon State Parks and Recreation. They have sided with the tribe 100% against the river users. ODFW does not get involved with the day to day issues of the Deschutes river. Now you begin to see what you are up against, The tribe,oregon state parks and the blm stick together and vote together, and oregon state police who have a vote usually goes along with them. :rolleyes: